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Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
In view of recent discussions and valentines jubilations, my mind has begun to further wander through the minefield of session etiquette. As we all know, relationships are complicated at the best of times, but is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music? Also, what are session sluts, and how do you spot one? Any other thoughts/opinions/stories on luuurve within sessions?
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
My best rule for any kind of relationship is to make sure that expectations of the kind of relationship you're about to have are the same. That means, ahem, I know this is hard to swallow, but try to stay with me here, talking about it ahead of time, or at least sometime around the beginning.
If the relationship is to be a brief exploratory-as-it-were fling for you, you'll want to make sure that the other person feels the same way, or you may be out of your local session if the relationship ends badly. If you're hoping for a long term relationship, you'd better know if the other person was hoping for "casual affair without any real involvement". If you're hoping for "let's explore the possiblities, oh, and incidentally, let's hop into the sack tonight", you'd better not pick somebody who is determined to save themselves unto marriage.
If you keep expectations out in front and talk when expectations and reality seem to be trainwrecking, well, then, yes, usually love and music are quite easy to combine, or at least, as easy as love and music ever get...
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Is there a story there we (don't) want to know about, Jeremy and Kevin? Hmmmm? LOL
Well, David, you'll note that no matter how sick you make yourself on food, eventually you'll get hungry again no matter what, unless you die of it, of course.
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Oh, you betcha. And I'm quite please to drag my mates dirty laundry out onto a discussion board that hundreds of people (or, maybe, 20) read all over the world. hahahaha! I'll just say that Kevin gave new meaning to the tune, Have a Drink with Me.
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Sounds ominous jeremy... :p
Personally, I don't think that music and romance should ever mix as so many musicians are, admittedly, eccentric and/or extremely arrogant; surely to have two such like personalities in one relationship is dangerous, to say the least?
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
I've seen it go horribly bad when musicians break up, especially in a small town. It's akin to dating someone at work, even more so if playing is part of your living. Hopefully, I won't have to worry about that for me'self, though. The wifey plays the box; I play the flute. I kindof' got her into it, but she's taken the bull by it's ******.
The flip side of the coin is that I know plenty of people who have conflicts with the significant other because they don't play. Either there's jealousy over time or that gnawing feeling that the other person doesn't understand this thing that continues to grow in importance in your life. Getting in to trad while in a relationship can be bad. Trad can change your social scene, your personality, your life.
Well, I'm preaching to the choir, I'm sure.
Now, players and dancers (especially set dancers - that can be a good mix...
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
I identify with your point about lack of understanding on your bf/gf's part. Having dated those of both the non musical and musical variety, there is something intensely irritating about the incomprehension someone so close to you can have concerning something you are so passionate about.
For a slight twist to the angle of this discussion, could you ever choose between a bf/gf and music?
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Slightly disjointed ramble:
I know of no one, at least moderately healthy mentally, who would ask their partner to choose between them and something they're passionate about and that makes them truly happy. However, I know lots of partners who are jealous of the time spent by musos on music, out there with the alcohol and the session groupies and the almost intimate glances and experiences shared between musos in full flight during a set and the late nights and did I mention the alcohol? These are not unreasonable concerns, and the role of the muso in this kind of battle over priorities is just as key as the non-playing partner. Relationships aren't one way streets with the direction the traffic is moving always the muso's way.
My husband and I have an agreement. If one of us asks, "do you really not mind if I go to that excessive-alcohol volleyball team party without you?" or "do you really not mind if I drive a few hundred miles away for that session with my friends?" or "will you really not mind if I don't come to your performance?" or some such, and the other really *does* mind, then they must say so. No passive aggressive behaviour allowed. If we really really want the other at one of our events, we have to say so.
But if you want to get a really clear view of your own priorities and whether you really think they're appropriate, have a life threatening illness. A friend just went through this, and after her recovery, amazingly, her playing jumped up whole levels. Another friend actually gave up pro music a few years back, because he realized that he'd rather spend most of his time with family than out on the road, after a bout with heart disease.
I don't seriously recommend this, of course, but it does seem to have an electrifying effect upon the priorities.
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Celtobilly, I know people whose partners forced them into that choice *after* they signed on the dotted line, with nothing said upfront before the commitment. Maybe they assumed that all that childish nonsense would be dropped once they married and Settled Down, and were surprised to find their partners expecting to continue being themselves...
The two litmus tests for me in a relationship that may combine a muso and a non-muso are:
1) have you chosen someone who can accept the subtle difference between making family & relationships the *most* important thing in life, and making them the *only* thing in life?
2) have you chosen someone who respects your dreams and aspirations on the basis of respect for you as a separate, free-thinking adult individual, or, someone who only values those dreams that happen to coincide with their own personal goals or those they consider appropriate to their vision of a wife/husband/bf/gf/whatever? Are you truly *you* in their eyes, or someone who they hope will fulfil some pre-defined role?
(By respect, I'm referring to an attitude, not a blind willingness to let you indulge all flights of fancy to irresponsible extents.)
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Well, the majority of All-Encompassing Loves in my life were people I met thru music. And all of those relationships were disastrous failures. Having realized that, I've tried dating some non-musical types as well, but those just kind of fizzled. I think without this shared passion and understanding, it's not going to gel, so I sure hope it's possible to successfully combine the two.
The failures had the interesting side-effect of propelling my music forward. A bit of sublimation I guess, pushing a lot of emotional energy into the music because it just needed a release.
Auto racing and computer programming are also passions in my life, but I don't expect/hope that a future partner will share those interests. Music is too integral tho, I think the connection has to be there otherwise they're missing the bulk of my identity.
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Hey Never-trust-a-violin, I was thinking about this popular theme of a thread on my drive home......if you meet a muso you really fancy, trust your gut instincts. I've been doing a lot of reading lately on intuition and it's an important gift we all have. Listen closely to it. And if things feel right, be open and upfront and most importantly, protect your heart......I wish you the best..
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
I've never been able to sing while crying. Just no good at it. Welcome out of unlurkhood, Mike -- I just finished the last pots du creme today, I worked really hard at self-denial but couldn't put it off any longer...there's two coconut flans still left, though...
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
The answer to the initial question of the thread "Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?" is yes. Although making love and making music should probably not be attempted simultaneously, as it leads flute players into the sort of diaphragmatic vibrato which we are told has no place in ITM.
As for the business of "choosing between your bf/gf or the music":
There's a song, isn't there, somewhat in the country music genre, where a guy tells how his wife gave him the ultimatum: If he went fishing any more, she'd leave him. This leads into the chorus "I'm gonna miss her".
If a partner/spouse asked me to give up the music for her then I'd know we were into the situation where she doesn't love me - she loves an idea she has in her mind, and I'm the man she's going to make it out of whether I like it or not.
Been there - seen it - got the T shirt - lost the diamond ring.
That was all a long time ago. Me and the present Mrs Dave have been married 25 years come May. On Fridays I go and play music with other magnificently bearded people, both male and female; and on thursdays she goes up to the community centre and wrestles with people in white japanese trouser suits, both male and female. No problems. I love her and she loves me, and we have different interests.
In all relationships, honesty is the best policy. If the relationship won't survive honesty, then it is not worth pursuing anyway.
Look after yourselves people, and take care of each other.
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
"-she loves an idea she has in her mind, and I'm the man she's going to make it out of whether I like it or not."
Dave, that says quite neatly what I was trying to define earlier and made a bit of a hash of. That's what happened to the people I mentioned after their marriages. One just ended up torched from the ground up (though the problem was relationship-wide, not just with music), the other got stuffed into the Standard Husband mould and any bits left hangin' out were removed without anasthesia. Not pretty sights.
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
For "real" musicians, music comes first. Tunes are going through your head day and night.
Her indoors does notice that I sit there reading the paper, and watching the news, and playing an "invisible" concertina.
She also notices my fingers moving in my sleep - they are not up to no good, they are playing tunes on her back.
She also complains that I sometimes drop what I am doing and immediately pick up an instrument to get the latest tune going or look it up in the relevant book.
But - she knows the benefits are many - she gets to regular gigs and sessions, gets entertained in the house (to distraction) and hopefully wouldn't have it any other way.
By the same token, I do not complain that my music room is full of art-work, my walls are covered in it, and I get dragged around art-galleries. Its part of the sharing of common interests and if you haven't any common interests, thats when the problems start.
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Lol Geoff, "session sluts" is a term I found in earlier discussions, but have since been told there is no such phenomenon; sorry to diappoint you.
Reading the majority of these posts, it's nice to know that so many people have been able to make this combination work. Recently, a friend of mine was seriously considering packing in pro music at the request of her significant other, who felt she should be spending more time at home- in the words of tish, fitting the wifey mould he had already pre-destined for her. This was, to say the least, sad, as ITM is such a great passion of hers. However, as a cunning ploy, she decided to "educate" her blokie on the culture of ITM, and in turn she would learn a little more about his. Thankfully, he has developed a new respect for both her and ITM, and this has enabled them to reach a compromise (i.e. she cuts down on the amount of time spent at sessions etc., as opposed to giving it all up). It does indeed appear that all relationships, (musical or not), involve give and take.
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
No such phenomenon! LOL -- oh yes there are such things, but it's not what you think, I think. *grin* "Session sluts" are people who will drop everything, do anything, find any kind of session to play, at any time, at any place, as much as possible... ;)
I think it's a little chancy to go into things thinking "you have this preconceived notion of what it is I'm supposed to be and what role I'm supposed to play", which is rather antagonistic, and, possibly, a redundant observation. After all, we all have expectations of what "husband" looks like, or "wife". We all have role models that we observe to give us those expectations.
But of course we don't need to hew to those sometimes unconscious expectations.
Personally, I try looking at it as, "hey, we both have these expectations, given to us by back history, society, and genetics, of what this relationship is supposed to look like and what our priorities should be within the context of those relationships -- is this relationship worth our trying to make sure that those expectations actually work for the two of us in real life?"
This is true of every relationship, not just our romantic ones. Expectations vary as to what a "friend" is supposed to be, for instance, or "sessionmate" or "son" or "daughter".
If you're lucky, your automatic assumptions about what a relationship should be will dovetail with your chosen partner with no work and no discussion. In most cases, though, some working together is generally necessary to make things work.
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Oh shoot, Zina, I thought that was a 'session hound.' I did think there was a sexual innuendo with the 'session slut' phenomenon, ie girls who hang around sessions just to get near the male musos. Didn't we have a compendium of session vernacular somewhere around here? Or several....
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
hehehe. I think of those not as "session sluts", but "session groupies"! "Session hound" is the polite version of "session slut", I think, because some people really don't like the word "slut" anywhere near them and don't stop to think that maybe you don't use it in the same context (usually in the context of morality) as they do.
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Ewww groupies is even worse! But accurate.
I'm referencing my Valley Girl Session Vernacular Compendium, & they seem to be drawing a distinction between hound & sl*t [sic] by gender of both speaker & object, ie "Like OMG she is SUCH a session sl*t!" vis a vis, "Dude, that dude is a TOTAL session hound."
SoCal contingent care to comment? Max? Emmaline? Oh wait, you're both minors. Never mind.
Okay, so there I am, standing at a bus stop in the San Fernando Valley (I think on Ventura Blvd, but could be wrong, it's been a while -- or maybe on Sepulveda?) on a very humid and hot summer day. Behind me is this fence made of that concrete block with a decorative pattern piercing it. I hear the sliding door behind the fence open. I hear a piercing, adenoidal, and, above all, teenage female voice say, in this very "like, DUH" tone...
"Grand -MUTHerrrrr, I am NOT going OWT there or my hair will be like Buh-RILLoh...."
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
This talk of relationships and sessions puts me in mind of a disastrous relationship I was involved in with someone from a session a year or so back. To cut a long and anguished story short, it culminated with one of The Most Embarrassing Moments of my Life (tm), to wit, me outside the pub, broken nose, glass everywhere, just as Brian and Sarah from Flook come from their hotel across the road to join the session (I'd been at their gig earlier in the evening). They were very kind, despite not knowing me at all, but really, this wasn't the light I'd have liked to have been seen in...
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Oh *dear*, Rog. For such a lovely, warm, and fuzzy hearted dude, you do get yourself into some scrapes, don't you? Er...pardon me while I go off to snicker quietly somewhere at the whole mental picture...
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
LOL- I definitely took that terminology out of context then...oppsies :$
Rog, my heart goes out to you; at a session I play at regularly, one of the numerous accordian players has, until recently, had a very.... shall we say "publicly affectionate" girlfriend. They broke up a few weeks ago, and neither box player or groupie has been to the session since; they are both reportedly to embarrassed to come back.
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Zina, am howling @ the Buh-Rilloh comment.... look here, when I get my new iBook, I want a sample of you saying that so I can program it in so it comes up whenever I have an error message, you know? LOLOL.... it's a bit long, maybe just the Buh-RILLoh part.....
Shoot rog, I'd have thought TMEMOML would have to entail exposure of certain anatomy.... I mean if you had a bloody nose, broken glass everywhere & happened to be stark naked, then I could begin to sympathize. Like how about that time I came out of the ladies room at a session with my skirt tucked into my pantyhose? OK that didn't really happen, but see what I mean?
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Well, I did say "one of"... I can think of a couple more (and even one session related) but I'm not yet at the point of being able to relate them here.
And... Emily... ) ... but the embarassment factor of anatomy exposure depends a lot on who you are, I think. I don't worry much about that sort of thing too much, myself. Maybe girls more so than blokes.
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Not so much that we have a lower embarrassment threshold, just different things embarrass blokes; I leave it to you to discern whether that's good or bad rog...
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Zina, I have been thinking all day about what you said earlier on this thread.
The thing about checking in with our spouses, (partners, boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever) on whether they are truly Ok with our going to a session or staying home to practice instead of accompanying them to a party or optional family thing.
It occurred to me that I get so wrapped up in this stuff that maybe my husband is feeling neglected and just not saying so. Also, the other thing is the other person could start doing all sorts of activities without consulting you (concerts, visiting friends, etc.) since you never consult or include him. Not out of spite, just out of the assumption that you would rather stay home and practice, etc.
The result is that you could start to drift apart if it is not addressed.
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
I didn't mean to imply, of ocurse, that there's anything wrong with having ideas about what you want in a Significant Other - far from it - but there's a difference between that and thinking you have the right to excise the bits of someone else's personality that aren't necessary for your purposes.
I agree, Zina, that going in boots-n-all accusing people as you say would be antagonistic; I just think it's good to be aware that it happens and that some people really do have an attitude that Things Are Different Now We're A Couple and that sometimes it only shows after the ink's dry on the certificate. I have a few friends with partners who seem to think they married a functional role rather than a flesh and blood human, and who have been subjected to years of harassment and controlling/manipulative behaviour because of it. It's a potential issue for anyone with a passionate interest of any kind.
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Heh -- Andee, it goes through cycles around here. We'll sort of go and go and go, and then one day one of us will wake up and sort of get this mild panic attack that we've been indulging ourselves and our proclivities at the expense of our partner and go all solicitous for a day or two. It almost always starts out with a sentence that goes something like, "sooooo....are you...feeling okay about stuff? I'm just checking, you know..." It's gotten to the point where all we have to do is get as far as "soooooo...are you..." and the other person cuts to the chase and we both laugh. Then we'll do it all over again.
Tish -- true...true...I dunno though. Can't make judgement calls for other people -- but if it were me in that situation, I'd be wondering what it is that I'm not learning about myself...because I've found myself in the past attracting relationships that were Not Good for me in very similar ways. I *think* I've finally managed to learn what it is I was supposed to learn and Pete and I don't seem to have the problems that were constants in the relationships previous to my marriage.
It's a tough one that your friends are in, that's for sure. Do you decide that the relationship is too damaged to save, or do you try and fix things and work together to discover how things got so out of hand? I wouldn't want to be in their shoes, that's for sure!
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
When it comes to the relationship thingy, like I said, honesty is best. If you bottle it up for a long time, then one day it comes out in a heated moment as something like "AND you've played invisible concertina for twenty years and it drives me mad!" - maybe if you share the problem earlier you can work through it together.
As for session sluts - of course they exist. Ours is about 50, with peroxide blond hair, wears short skirt and fishnet stockings (yes fellas! real stockings with suspenders!), possibly no knickers (no-one has ever been brave enough to find out). She sometimes gets drunk and dances, sometimes she doesn't dance.
We also call her the Dancing Slapper. But she's OUR dancing slapper, and don't you knock it.
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Hey Dave, I think your Dancing Slapper sometimes comes to London sessions .... I personally must have seen her (or someone very like her) a hundred times!
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Well, I'll say this much on 2 takes...
first of all, after having been to, been a vendor, played, performed, etc. at several faires and sessions, I can tell you that love and music goes together quite well. The definition of love and sex is the question. It's a loving, flirtatious, sexual adventure and when the faire is over everyone leaves most often happy, and on occasion quite possibly... even attempt a long term relationship... I've done it. Didn't work out eventually, but hey... it was great and it ended on a very good note. So indeed Love and music can go together without question, whether it be a fling or a ring.
second, I know that I was married for many years and was subject to jealousy syndrome - and what I mean by that is that once I was able to suddenly start playing an instrument by ear and such and find such joy and take such interest in it, there was a pretty quick demise to my new-found joy in music visa vi my x-wife. She was very quick to anhialate (sp?) anything I could do that she couldn't - and definately if I could do it 'to easily' even if it was only her interpretation ... which was mostly the case.
So double and tripple agreement with the 'check before you check in' clause on the priorities list. Lovers should be first, but passions of life should be allowed and nurtured, not made to feel a broken hinge or dissaproval.
Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
In view of recent discussions and valentines jubilations, my mind has begun to further wander through the minefield of session etiquette. As we all know, relationships are complicated at the best of times, but is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music? Also, what are session sluts, and how do you spot one? Any other thoughts/opinions/stories on luuurve within sessions?
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by never-trust-a-violinist
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Sometimes it can be a very dangerous game. Be careful!
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by JMH
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
I don't think you'll find that the term 'Session Slut' actually refers to the sexual proclivities of such a person...
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by Ottery
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
My best rule for any kind of relationship is to make sure that expectations of the kind of relationship you're about to have are the same. That means, ahem, I know this is hard to swallow, but try to stay with me here, talking about it ahead of time, or at least sometime around the beginning.
If the relationship is to be a brief exploratory-as-it-were fling for you, you'll want to make sure that the other person feels the same way, or you may be out of your local session if the relationship ends badly. If you're hoping for a long term relationship, you'd better know if the other person was hoping for "casual affair without any real involvement". If you're hoping for "let's explore the possiblities, oh, and incidentally, let's hop into the sack tonight", you'd better not pick somebody who is determined to save themselves unto marriage.
If you keep expectations out in front and talk when expectations and reality seem to be trainwrecking, well, then, yes, usually love and music are quite easy to combine, or at least, as easy as love and music ever get...
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Another good question is, do trad heads and punters mix? Isn't that a good question, Caoimghgin... uh, Kevin?
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by jerball
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Is there a story there we (don't) want to know about, Jeremy and Kevin? Hmmmm? LOL
Well, David, you'll note that no matter how sick you make yourself on food, eventually you'll get hungry again no matter what, unless you die of it, of course.
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Oh, you betcha. And I'm quite please to drag my mates dirty laundry out onto a discussion board that hundreds of people (or, maybe, 20) read all over the world. hahahaha! I'll just say that Kevin gave new meaning to the tune, Have a Drink with Me.
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by jerball
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Sounds ominous jeremy... :p
Personally, I don't think that music and romance should ever mix as so many musicians are, admittedly, eccentric and/or extremely arrogant; surely to have two such like personalities in one relationship is dangerous, to say the least?
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by never-trust-a-violinist
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
It really really depends on who the musicians are. There are just so many variables......
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by JMH
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
I've seen it go horribly bad when musicians break up, especially in a small town. It's akin to dating someone at work, even more so if playing is part of your living. Hopefully, I won't have to worry about that for me'self, though. The wifey plays the box; I play the flute. I kindof' got her into it, but she's taken the bull by it's ******.
- that can be a good mix...
The flip side of the coin is that I know plenty of people who have conflicts with the significant other because they don't play. Either there's jealousy over time or that gnawing feeling that the other person doesn't understand this thing that continues to grow in importance in your life. Getting in to trad while in a relationship can be bad. Trad can change your social scene, your personality, your life.
Well, I'm preaching to the choir, I'm sure.
Now, players and dancers (especially set dancers
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by jerball
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Oh -- *waving dismissively* -- drinking, Jeremy. I thought we were going to get something unusual.
*snort*
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
I identify with your point about lack of understanding on your bf/gf's part. Having dated those of both the non musical and musical variety, there is something intensely irritating about the incomprehension someone so close to you can have concerning something you are so passionate about.
For a slight twist to the angle of this discussion, could you ever choose between a bf/gf and music?
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by never-trust-a-violinist
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
I can't imagine choosing the sort of person who would want me to make that choice.
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by celtobilly
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Slightly disjointed ramble:
I know of no one, at least moderately healthy mentally, who would ask their partner to choose between them and something they're passionate about and that makes them truly happy. However, I know lots of partners who are jealous of the time spent by musos on music, out there with the alcohol and the session groupies and the almost intimate glances and experiences shared between musos in full flight during a set and the late nights and did I mention the alcohol? These are not unreasonable concerns, and the role of the muso in this kind of battle over priorities is just as key as the non-playing partner. Relationships aren't one way streets with the direction the traffic is moving always the muso's way.
My husband and I have an agreement. If one of us asks, "do you really not mind if I go to that excessive-alcohol volleyball team party without you?" or "do you really not mind if I drive a few hundred miles away for that session with my friends?" or "will you really not mind if I don't come to your performance?" or some such, and the other really *does* mind, then they must say so. No passive aggressive behaviour allowed. If we really really want the other at one of our events, we have to say so.
But if you want to get a really clear view of your own priorities and whether you really think they're appropriate, have a life threatening illness. A friend just went through this, and after her recovery, amazingly, her playing jumped up whole levels. Another friend actually gave up pro music a few years back, because he realized that he'd rather spend most of his time with family than out on the road, after a bout with heart disease.
I don't seriously recommend this, of course, but it does seem to have an electrifying effect upon the priorities.
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Celtobilly, I know people whose partners forced them into that choice *after* they signed on the dotted line, with nothing said upfront before the commitment. Maybe they assumed that all that childish nonsense would be dropped once they married and Settled Down, and were surprised to find their partners expecting to continue being themselves...
The two litmus tests for me in a relationship that may combine a muso and a non-muso are:
1) have you chosen someone who can accept the subtle difference between making family & relationships the *most* important thing in life, and making them the *only* thing in life?
2) have you chosen someone who respects your dreams and aspirations on the basis of respect for you as a separate, free-thinking adult individual, or, someone who only values those dreams that happen to coincide with their own personal goals or those they consider appropriate to their vision of a wife/husband/bf/gf/whatever? Are you truly *you* in their eyes, or someone who they hope will fulfil some pre-defined role?
(By respect, I'm referring to an attitude, not a blind willingness to let you indulge all flights of fancy to irresponsible extents.)
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by Tish
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Hey, I married a violinist.....hey, where'd my money go....
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by Dust Lad
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Well, the majority of All-Encompassing Loves in my life were people I met thru music. And all of those relationships were disastrous failures. Having realized that, I've tried dating some non-musical types as well, but those just kind of fizzled. I think without this shared passion and understanding, it's not going to gel, so I sure hope it's possible to successfully combine the two.
The failures had the interesting side-effect of propelling my music forward. A bit of sublimation I guess, pushing a lot of emotional energy into the music because it just needed a release.
Auto racing and computer programming are also passions in my life, but I don't expect/hope that a future partner will share those interests. Music is too integral tho, I think the connection has to be there otherwise they're missing the bulk of my identity.
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by HighlandSun
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Hey Never-trust-a-violin, I was thinking about this popular theme of a thread on my drive home......if you meet a muso you really fancy, trust your gut instincts. I've been doing a lot of reading lately on intuition and it's an important gift we all have. Listen closely to it. And if things feel right, be open and upfront and most importantly, protect your heart......I wish you the best..
Joyce
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by JMH
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
insert sounds of creaking unlurking here
and low-hanging fruit being picked there
Starting from the beginning:
"can I combine love and music" has two parts for me
0) if I don't try I won't find out "my" answer. So far, it
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by mike henry
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
I've never been able to sing while crying. Just no good at it. Welcome out of unlurkhood, Mike -- I just finished the last pots du creme today, I worked really hard at self-denial but couldn't put it off any longer...there's two coconut flans still left, though...
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
here's an idea freeze the flan and save it for the chocolate bock
(oops, off topic)
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by mike henry
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
The chocolate bock that Pete drank all of, leaving me none to try, the bahstid!
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
The answer to the initial question of the thread "Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?" is yes. Although making love and making music should probably not be attempted simultaneously, as it leads flute players into the sort of diaphragmatic vibrato which we are told has no place in ITM.
As for the business of "choosing between your bf/gf or the music":
There's a song, isn't there, somewhat in the country music genre, where a guy tells how his wife gave him the ultimatum: If he went fishing any more, she'd leave him. This leads into the chorus "I'm gonna miss her".
If a partner/spouse asked me to give up the music for her then I'd know we were into the situation where she doesn't love me - she loves an idea she has in her mind, and I'm the man she's going to make it out of whether I like it or not.
Been there - seen it - got the T shirt - lost the diamond ring.
That was all a long time ago. Me and the present Mrs Dave have been married 25 years come May. On Fridays I go and play music with other magnificently bearded people, both male and female; and on thursdays she goes up to the community centre and wrestles with people in white japanese trouser suits, both male and female. No problems. I love her and she loves me, and we have different interests.
In all relationships, honesty is the best policy. If the relationship won't survive honesty, then it is not worth pursuing anyway.
Look after yourselves people, and take care of each other.
Dave
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
"-she loves an idea she has in her mind, and I'm the man she's going to make it out of whether I like it or not."
Dave, that says quite neatly what I was trying to define earlier and made a bit of a hash of. That's what happened to the people I mentioned after their marriages. One just ended up torched from the ground up (though the problem was relationship-wide, not just with music), the other got stuffed into the Standard Husband mould and any bits left hangin' out were removed without anasthesia. Not pretty sights.
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by Tish
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
For "real" musicians, music comes first. Tunes are going through your head day and night.
Her indoors does notice that I sit there reading the paper, and watching the news, and playing an "invisible" concertina.
She also notices my fingers moving in my sleep - they are not up to no good, they are playing tunes on her back.
She also complains that I sometimes drop what I am doing and immediately pick up an instrument to get the latest tune going or look it up in the relevant book.
But - she knows the benefits are many - she gets to regular gigs and sessions, gets entertained in the house (to distraction) and hopefully wouldn't have it any other way.
By the same token, I do not complain that my music room is full of art-work, my walls are covered in it, and I get dragged around art-galleries. Its part of the sharing of common interests and if you haven't any common interests, thats when the problems start.
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by geoffwright
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Glancing back up at the early posts, I like the idea of the "session sluts" and relationships being "hard to swallow". Hopefully tongue-in-cheek!
# Posted on February 18th 2004 by geoffwright
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Of course it's possible. Don't we all love music?
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by Joe Quinn
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Lol Geoff, "session sluts" is a term I found in earlier discussions, but have since been told there is no such phenomenon; sorry to diappoint you.
Reading the majority of these posts, it's nice to know that so many people have been able to make this combination work. Recently, a friend of mine was seriously considering packing in pro music at the request of her significant other, who felt she should be spending more time at home- in the words of tish, fitting the wifey mould he had already pre-destined for her. This was, to say the least, sad, as ITM is such a great passion of hers. However, as a cunning ploy, she decided to "educate" her blokie on the culture of ITM, and in turn she would learn a little more about his. Thankfully, he has developed a new respect for both her and ITM, and this has enabled them to reach a compromise (i.e. she cuts down on the amount of time spent at sessions etc., as opposed to giving it all up). It does indeed appear that all relationships, (musical or not), involve give and take.
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by never-trust-a-violinist
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
No such phenomenon! LOL -- oh yes there are such things, but it's not what you think, I think. *grin* "Session sluts" are people who will drop everything, do anything, find any kind of session to play, at any time, at any place, as much as possible... ;)
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by Zina Lee
Btw
I think it's a little chancy to go into things thinking "you have this preconceived notion of what it is I'm supposed to be and what role I'm supposed to play", which is rather antagonistic, and, possibly, a redundant observation. After all, we all have expectations of what "husband" looks like, or "wife". We all have role models that we observe to give us those expectations.
But of course we don't need to hew to those sometimes unconscious expectations.
Personally, I try looking at it as, "hey, we both have these expectations, given to us by back history, society, and genetics, of what this relationship is supposed to look like and what our priorities should be within the context of those relationships -- is this relationship worth our trying to make sure that those expectations actually work for the two of us in real life?"
This is true of every relationship, not just our romantic ones. Expectations vary as to what a "friend" is supposed to be, for instance, or "sessionmate" or "son" or "daughter".
If you're lucky, your automatic assumptions about what a relationship should be will dovetail with your chosen partner with no work and no discussion. In most cases, though, some working together is generally necessary to make things work.
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Oh shoot, Zina, I thought that was a 'session hound.' I did think there was a sexual innuendo with the 'session slut' phenomenon, ie girls who hang around sessions just to get near the male musos. Didn't we have a compendium of session vernacular somewhere around here? Or several....
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by emily_bmore
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Sheesh you type fast.... !
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by emily_bmore
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
hehehe. I think of those not as "session sluts", but "session groupies"! "Session hound" is the polite version of "session slut", I think, because some people really don't like the word "slut" anywhere near them and don't stop to think that maybe you don't use it in the same context (usually in the context of morality) as they do.
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
YMMV, of course.
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Ewww groupies is even worse! But accurate.
I'm referencing my Valley Girl Session Vernacular Compendium, & they seem to be drawing a distinction between hound & sl*t [sic] by gender of both speaker & object, ie "Like OMG she is SUCH a session sl*t!" vis a vis, "Dude, that dude is a TOTAL session hound."
SoCal contingent care to comment? Max? Emmaline? Oh wait, you're both minors. Never mind.
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by emily_bmore
Story break
Okay, so there I am, standing at a bus stop in the San Fernando Valley (I think on Ventura Blvd, but could be wrong, it's been a while -- or maybe on Sepulveda?) on a very humid and hot summer day. Behind me is this fence made of that concrete block with a decorative pattern piercing it. I hear the sliding door behind the fence open. I hear a piercing, adenoidal, and, above all, teenage female voice say, in this very "like, DUH" tone...
"Grand -MUTHerrrrr, I am NOT going OWT there or my hair will be like Buh-RILLoh...."
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
This talk of relationships and sessions puts me in mind of a disastrous relationship I was involved in with someone from a session a year or so back. To cut a long and anguished story short, it culminated with one of The Most Embarrassing Moments of my Life (tm), to wit, me outside the pub, broken nose, glass everywhere, just as Brian and Sarah from Flook come from their hotel across the road to join the session (I'd been at their gig earlier in the evening). They were very kind, despite not knowing me at all, but really, this wasn't the light I'd have liked to have been seen in...
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by rog
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Oh *dear*, Rog. For such a lovely, warm, and fuzzy hearted dude, you do get yourself into some scrapes, don't you? Er...pardon me while I go off to snicker quietly somewhere at the whole mental picture...
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
LOL- I definitely took that terminology out of context then...oppsies :$
Rog, my heart goes out to you; at a session I play at regularly, one of the numerous accordian players has, until recently, had a very.... shall we say "publicly affectionate" girlfriend. They broke up a few weeks ago, and neither box player or groupie has been to the session since; they are both reportedly to embarrassed to come back.
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by never-trust-a-violinist
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Zina, am howling @ the Buh-Rilloh comment.... look here, when I get my new iBook, I want a sample of you saying that so I can program it in so it comes up whenever I have an error message, you know? LOLOL.... it's a bit long, maybe just the Buh-RILLoh part.....
Shoot rog, I'd have thought TMEMOML would have to entail exposure of certain anatomy.... I mean if you had a bloody nose, broken glass everywhere & happened to be stark naked, then I could begin to sympathize. Like how about that time I came out of the ladies room at a session with my skirt tucked into my pantyhose? OK that didn't really happen, but see what I mean?
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by emily_bmore
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Well, I did say "one of"... I can think of a couple more (and even one session related) but I'm not yet at the point of being able to relate them here.
) ... but the embarassment factor of anatomy exposure depends a lot on who you are, I think. I don't worry much about that sort of thing too much, myself. Maybe girls more so than blokes.
And... Emily...
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by rog
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Touche rog, may we never get *too* comfortable on here that we permanently reveal our most embarrassing moments for eternal ridicule.
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by emily_bmore
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Not so much that we have a lower embarrassment threshold, just different things embarrass blokes; I leave it to you to discern whether that's good or bad rog...
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by never-trust-a-violinist
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Zina, I have been thinking all day about what you said earlier on this thread.
The thing about checking in with our spouses, (partners, boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever) on whether they are truly Ok with our going to a session or staying home to practice instead of accompanying them to a party or optional family thing.
It occurred to me that I get so wrapped up in this stuff that maybe my husband is feeling neglected and just not saying so. Also, the other thing is the other person could start doing all sorts of activities without consulting you (concerts, visiting friends, etc.) since you never consult or include him. Not out of spite, just out of the assumption that you would rather stay home and practice, etc.
The result is that you could start to drift apart if it is not addressed.
Communication is truly the key.
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by Andee
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
I didn't mean to imply, of ocurse, that there's anything wrong with having ideas about what you want in a Significant Other - far from it - but there's a difference between that and thinking you have the right to excise the bits of someone else's personality that aren't necessary for your purposes.
I agree, Zina, that going in boots-n-all accusing people as you say would be antagonistic; I just think it's good to be aware that it happens and that some people really do have an attitude that Things Are Different Now We're A Couple and that sometimes it only shows after the ink's dry on the certificate. I have a few friends with partners who seem to think they married a functional role rather than a flesh and blood human, and who have been subjected to years of harassment and controlling/manipulative behaviour because of it. It's a potential issue for anyone with a passionate interest of any kind.
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by Tish
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Errm, "of course", of course...
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by Tish
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Heh -- Andee, it goes through cycles around here. We'll sort of go and go and go, and then one day one of us will wake up and sort of get this mild panic attack that we've been indulging ourselves and our proclivities at the expense of our partner and go all solicitous for a day or two. It almost always starts out with a sentence that goes something like, "sooooo....are you...feeling okay about stuff? I'm just checking, you know..." It's gotten to the point where all we have to do is get as far as "soooooo...are you..." and the other person cuts to the chase and we both laugh. Then we'll do it all over again.
Tish -- true...true...I dunno though. Can't make judgement calls for other people -- but if it were me in that situation, I'd be wondering what it is that I'm not learning about myself...because I've found myself in the past attracting relationships that were Not Good for me in very similar ways. I *think* I've finally managed to learn what it is I was supposed to learn and Pete and I don't seem to have the problems that were constants in the relationships previous to my marriage.
It's a tough one that your friends are in, that's for sure. Do you decide that the relationship is too damaged to save, or do you try and fix things and work together to discover how things got so out of hand? I wouldn't want to be in their shoes, that's for sure!
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
When it comes to the relationship thingy, like I said, honesty is best. If you bottle it up for a long time, then one day it comes out in a heated moment as something like "AND you've played invisible concertina for twenty years and it drives me mad!" - maybe if you share the problem earlier you can work through it together.
As for session sluts - of course they exist. Ours is about 50, with peroxide blond hair, wears short skirt and fishnet stockings (yes fellas! real stockings with suspenders!), possibly no knickers (no-one has ever been brave enough to find out). She sometimes gets drunk and dances, sometimes she doesn't dance.
We also call her the Dancing Slapper. But she's OUR dancing slapper, and don't you knock it.
Dave
# Posted on February 19th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Hey Dave, I think your Dancing Slapper sometimes comes to London sessions .... I personally must have seen her (or someone very like her) a hundred times!
# Posted on February 20th 2004 by ReubenH
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
How do you know she slaps? Hmmmmmmm? Not so much a slut as all that?
# Posted on February 20th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Oh yusss!
# Posted on February 20th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
I do too wear knickers!
# Posted on February 20th 2004 by emily_bmore
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
LOL -- and your hair pomade brand, Em? *snort*
# Posted on February 20th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
Well, I'll say this much on 2 takes...
first of all, after having been to, been a vendor, played, performed, etc. at several faires and sessions, I can tell you that love and music goes together quite well. The definition of love and sex is the question. It's a loving, flirtatious, sexual adventure and when the faire is over everyone leaves most often happy, and on occasion quite possibly... even attempt a long term relationship... I've done it. Didn't work out eventually, but hey... it was great and it ended on a very good note. So indeed Love and music can go together without question, whether it be a fling or a ring.
second, I know that I was married for many years and was subject to jealousy syndrome - and what I mean by that is that once I was able to suddenly start playing an instrument by ear and such and find such joy and take such interest in it, there was a pretty quick demise to my new-found joy in music visa vi my x-wife. She was very quick to anhialate (sp?) anything I could do that she couldn't - and definately if I could do it 'to easily' even if it was only her interpretation ... which was mostly the case.
So double and tripple agreement with the 'check before you check in' clause on the priorities list. Lovers should be first, but passions of life should be allowed and nurtured, not made to feel a broken hinge or dissaproval.
Take care!
John
# Posted on February 21st 2004 by McHaffie
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
I like your last sentence, McHaffie - "first" and "only" are different concepts, a subtlety that is lost on many.
# Posted on February 21st 2004 by Tish
Re: Is it ever possible to successfully combine love and music?
LOL Dave, well, it didn't look like a two-horse town, but try finding a decent hair jelly! *adjusts hair net*
# Posted on February 21st 2004 by emily_bmore