Why is it that there are so many absolute Philistines who know jack s**t about the music but who manage to wind up in positions of relative authority - often at plastic paddy pubs, booking agencies, major festivals, etc.
Is there some correlation between the organisational gene and the Philistine factor that I'm not aware of? Should we in fact be working on a GM form of human that could then fill these positions and hopefully bring some intelligence and cultural sensitivity along with them?
Speaking as an ex organiser and folk club committee member, I would refute the suggestion that these people necessarily know jack *sh-t* about the music but they can be rather blinkered and they bring along their own biases with them a lot of the time i.e what *they* think things should be based on their own preferences and experiences. Since I started to play in earnest a few years back, I don't involve myself in that side of things any more, although I've done the occasional stint of volunteering at one or two festivals.
I know of some excellent organisers etc, many of whom are current or lapsed musicians and singers who know a fair bit about the music, but admittedly there are also the "hangers on" who like to "talk a good job" and just want to lap up the social benefits that come with their position. On the other hand, there are also good people who work very hard on the scene who know very little, if a little more than "jack sh-t", so maybe we shouldn't be generalising here.
One group of people who bug me, though, are certain Gig and Festival reviewers who don't have a clue about what they are writing about half the time and "swan about" with their free press passes. Again, there are exceptions. I know some very musically knowledgeable and informed reviewers but there are so many given the task to undertake reviews of traditional music events with no specialist knowledge whatsoever.
I know my point coming up is not about the music, but another activity with which I've had almost a lifetime involvement with.
Yesterday morning our athletic club Kent AC organised their anual 10 mile road race (for runners, and a fair few joggers at the back). Although this is one of our major sources of income, we could just put up club subscriptions by
I meant to add - we've got a couple (well, at least 2!) gigs coming up at this forthcoming SE London Irish Festival, around Paddy's week. The people organising it I've spoken to so far have been really nice, and enthusiastic about the music. Ok, they might not know how the Yellow Tinker goes, or be able to talk about embouchure, or bowing technique, but we've got them on our side. I don't see any problem with them.
BTW, pied - even sessions need *some* organising!
No, no Steve - I didn't say "all".... I'm only too well aware of the valuable input of people with their hearts in the right place. The post was 'rooted' in a small moment of exasperation at running into just one more of those who don't! He was one of those 'promo/money' types ("man, I'm so switched on, watch my dust - by the way what are those things on your lap - are you some kind of plumber?"), not a music one!
And yes, Danny - I've done a bit of the organisatonal stuff myself and those who put in all those volunteer hours and carry out the role of facilitator are truly valued people .... but then there are also those who take on positions only to become gateways instead of pathways! Little Tin God syndrome, y'know....
Maybe we just need to start demanding they are issued pedigree papers before these guys are let loose on the public to misrepresent the culture!
Can't you just see it? ....."now entering the centre ring we have Pseudo Hibernicus Clone of Riverdance, from Filthy Lucre out of Gobshite..." what a show that could be!
...closely followed by the Cloned Moron Motorist of Sidcup, who could count.....
..... his IQ on his fingers.
I wasn't after praise, BTW, Judy - I just used that as the most convenient example I could think of to make the point. But you're definitely right about that class of tosser...I forgot about them...haven't come across them recently - maybe I've just learned to work with them to achieve the end result....Oh, yeah! the guy who reviewed Mick Mulvey's album!! (see my recent thread)
Triantan, you've got a point when you say "misrepresent the culture". Some of these switched-on types work as publicists and churn out hyped-up blurb that presses all the wrong buttons with informed appreciators and gives a misleading impression to those that aren't in-the-know. I haven't had anything to do with trad festivals and suchlike yet, but I know in a different specialty field I've read any number of "professional promotion company" outpourings for groups that friends play in, and they've been nothing short of embarassing.
Yea, verily - I'd thankfully almost forgotten about them too.... I must have been leading a bit too sheltered existence of late! And I wasn't just trying to pump sunshine up your skirt Danny - My heartfelt thanks go to all those folks who care enough about keeping the continuum happening to get of the blots and do something constructive about it.
(And then you get these parasites who capitalise on their efforts wihtout any of the talent or the goodwill !)
.....BTW I'm sure your man from Sidcup has a brother who lives about three blocks from me!
Many of us who feel compelled from time to time to offer help to organizers face the same frustration. As the event increases in size, and requires financial support you might as well sit back out of the way and let it run its course because the "controllers" will be out and about post_haste. Relax and enjoy what you can.
Beats the hell out of me!
Beats the hell out of me!
Why is it that there are so many absolute Philistines who know jack s**t about the music but who manage to wind up in positions of relative authority - often at plastic paddy pubs, booking agencies, major festivals, etc.
Is there some correlation between the organisational gene and the Philistine factor that I'm not aware of? Should we in fact be working on a GM form of human that could then fill these positions and hopefully bring some intelligence and cultural sensitivity along with them?
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by triantan
Re: Beats the hell out of me!
Those that can, do. Those who can't, run the committee.
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by Ottery
Re: Beats the hell out of me!
Was there a final straw that broke the camel's back - a particular incident to spark this issue?
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by Tarrantella
Re: Beats the hell out of me!
is there a correlation? yes. entirely. perhaps will articulate later
should we in fact be working on a GM form of a human? damn right we should
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by micelfife
Re: Beats the hell out of me!
Speaking as an ex organiser and folk club committee member, I would refute the suggestion that these people necessarily know jack *sh-t* about the music but they can be rather blinkered and they bring along their own biases with them a lot of the time i.e what *they* think things should be based on their own preferences and experiences. Since I started to play in earnest a few years back, I don't involve myself in that side of things any more, although I've done the occasional stint of volunteering at one or two festivals.
I know of some excellent organisers etc, many of whom are current or lapsed musicians and singers who know a fair bit about the music, but admittedly there are also the "hangers on" who like to "talk a good job" and just want to lap up the social benefits that come with their position. On the other hand, there are also good people who work very hard on the scene who know very little, if a little more than "jack sh-t", so maybe we shouldn't be generalising here.
John
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: Beats the hell out of me!
One group of people who bug me, though, are certain Gig and Festival reviewers who don't have a clue about what they are writing about half the time and "swan about" with their free press passes. Again, there are exceptions. I know some very musically knowledgeable and informed reviewers but there are so many given the task to undertake reviews of traditional music events with no specialist knowledge whatsoever.
John
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: Beats the hell out of me!
That
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by Pied Piper
Re: Beats the hell out of me!
I had the misfortune to meet some of those disorganizers in Italy when the local mafiosi hijacked the Paddy's day festivities.
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by Joe Quinn
Re: Beats the hell out of me!
Yep, a bit like asking a blacksmith to calibrate a micrometer...or a basta** to organise a family reunion...
Jim
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by Worldfiddler
Re: Beats the hell out of me!
I know my point coming up is not about the music, but another activity with which I've had almost a lifetime involvement with.
Yesterday morning our athletic club Kent AC organised their anual 10 mile road race (for runners, and a fair few joggers at the back). Although this is one of our major sources of income, we could just put up club subscriptions by
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: Beats the hell out of me!
I meant to add - we've got a couple (well, at least 2!) gigs coming up at this forthcoming SE London Irish Festival, around Paddy's week. The people organising it I've spoken to so far have been really nice, and enthusiastic about the music. Ok, they might not know how the Yellow Tinker goes, or be able to talk about embouchure, or bowing technique, but we've got them on our side. I don't see any problem with them.
BTW, pied - even sessions need *some* organising!
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: Beats the hell out of me!
No, no Steve - I didn't say "all".... I'm only too well aware of the valuable input of people with their hearts in the right place. The post was 'rooted' in a small moment of exasperation at running into just one more of those who don't! He was one of those 'promo/money' types ("man, I'm so switched on, watch my dust - by the way what are those things on your lap - are you some kind of plumber?"), not a music one!
And yes, Danny - I've done a bit of the organisatonal stuff myself and those who put in all those volunteer hours and carry out the role of facilitator are truly valued people .... but then there are also those who take on positions only to become gateways instead of pathways! Little Tin God syndrome, y'know....
Maybe we just need to start demanding they are issued pedigree papers before these guys are let loose on the public to misrepresent the culture!
Can't you just see it? ....."now entering the centre ring we have Pseudo Hibernicus Clone of Riverdance, from Filthy Lucre out of Gobshite..." what a show that could be!
Judy
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by triantan
Re: Beats the hell out of me!
...closely followed by the Cloned Moron Motorist of Sidcup, who could count.....
..... his IQ on his fingers.
I wasn't after praise, BTW, Judy - I just used that as the most convenient example I could think of to make the point. But you're definitely right about that class of tosser...I forgot about them...haven't come across them recently - maybe I've just learned to work with them to achieve the end result....Oh, yeah! the guy who reviewed Mick Mulvey's album!! (see my recent thread)
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: Beats the hell out of me!
Triantan, you've got a point when you say "misrepresent the culture". Some of these switched-on types work as publicists and churn out hyped-up blurb that presses all the wrong buttons with informed appreciators and gives a misleading impression to those that aren't in-the-know. I haven't had anything to do with trad festivals and suchlike yet, but I know in a different specialty field I've read any number of "professional promotion company" outpourings for groups that friends play in, and they've been nothing short of embarassing.
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by Tish
Re: Beats the hell out of me!
Yea, verily - I'd thankfully almost forgotten about them too.... I must have been leading a bit too sheltered existence of late! And I wasn't just trying to pump sunshine up your skirt Danny - My heartfelt thanks go to all those folks who care enough about keeping the continuum happening to get of the blots and do something constructive about it.
(And then you get these parasites who capitalise on their efforts wihtout any of the talent or the goodwill !)
.....BTW I'm sure your man from Sidcup has a brother who lives about three blocks from me!
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by triantan
Re: Beats the hell out of me!
Many of us who feel compelled from time to time to offer help to organizers face the same frustration. As the event increases in size, and requires financial support you might as well sit back out of the way and let it run its course because the "controllers" will be out and about post_haste. Relax and enjoy what you can.
# Posted on February 17th 2004 by wvwhistler