Hi folks,
I'm new to this. Just stumbled across it by accident, I started playing trad fiddle at the age of 8 years...20 years ago. I played up to the age of 16 and then left it aside for approx 10 years - only getting back to it 2 years ago at the age of 26.
I love trad music but also love classical and would love to learn it - not in a big way but think it would do me no harm.
does anyone know where I could learn in the Dublin area??? Any help/suggestions welcome...thanks!!
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
Go to a music store that carries violins and sheet music - ask them about private tutors. I'd bet they would advertise in the want ads as well. You'll want a beginning teacher as every aspect of playing will be different and you'll pretty much be starting from scratch. Good luck; I'd be interested to know how the transition goes.
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
Why would you want to learn classical music when you have the almost infinite tradition to explore for the rest of your life?? I have been playing for 34 years and am still learning tunes, technique, style, interpretation, ..........
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
Breandan-
A lot of classical players are irritating because they feel classical music is the only type of music a "real" musician should play. I'm not sure trad people are less irritating when they have that same attitude. I personally think the problem with classical training is that it encourages people to be robotic about the music. Obviously, Paula wouldn't have that problem.
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
misconceptions, tut tut, classical music is absolutely FAntastic. you wont be learning from scratch if you started with trad. at least you know fingering and bowing already, the tunes are just a bit different, and maybe the bowing is not as complicated, or maybe more i never thought about that one. some classical techniques will help your playing of trad music too.
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
try the royal irish academy of music. Their the ones who do all the exams for classical music, well on fiddle and piano ne way. Ring up 11850 and get the number. They'll sort you out wit a teacher.
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
Actually, I used to play classical ages ago. The fingerings are the same obviously - except in classical you must have a strong 4th finger which you don't use a lot in trad. But there is absolutely nothing similar about the bow: you hold it differently, move it differently, the flow of the music is completely different.. everything is different. You hold the instrument differently. You use different techniques for every aspect of playing.
You would not only be starting from scratch, but you'd have to unlearn many of the things that you do without thinking about them now. It would be easier to learn classical having had no experience at all. That being said - both types of training will eventually give you insight into the other.
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
Paula,
I think you'll find when learning classical violin that you'll be exploring a much wider range of technical skills. For instance, I shouldn't be surprised when you learn classical vibrato that you'll have more control over it than those with no trad background. I've seen so many classical violinists who seem to have just one sort of vibrato which is always "on", and this isn't necessarily exclusive to the amateurs either! Also, I think you'll probably surprise your classical teacher with your trad player's ability to learn music quickly by ear, and with your freedom of playing, and incidentally the ability to play a clean sound on the open E-string, something which many classical violinists never seem to acquire.
As regards holding this instrument, obviously I don't know your particular hold, but some trad players have a hold that is reminiscent of 18c style. Nothing wrong with that, and I don't see why it shouldn't be ok today (if it was ok for Mozart and Paganini ... etc). I have a theory that the present day idea that a classical violinist should hold the instrument out more or less straight arises out of the belief that the sound is better projected, and that this is helped by the shoulder rest. What I believe in facthappens is that the instrument sounds louder to the player because it is higher and nearer to the player's ear; it doesn't necessarily follow that the sound travels better to the audience.
I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to enjoy classical violin alongside trad fiddle. One doesn't interfere with the other, and in fact, as others have pointed out, there may very well be cross-over benefits.
On a personal note (which I think has some relevance) I was brought up on the classical cello most of my life and started the trad fiddle just 3 years ago this week. I'm self-taught on the technical side of fiddle playing because I found the basic fingering and bowing skills transferred quite easily from the cello (and I've spent most of my cello-playing career watching violinists in my orchestras, so there must have been some sort of osmosis going on), but of course lessons and workshops in trad fiddle music are absolutely essential. I haven't played any classical violin music at all in these 3 years (although Vivaldi does attract me), but interestingly there has been some cross-over of trad fiddle technique back to my cello playing, to its benefit I believe (specifically bowing and control of vibrato), especially when playing pre-Beethoven music.
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
HI All,
Thanks for that. I actually work very near the Royal Academy of Music...kinda afraid to approach the place!! I don't know why I want to learn Classical and sometimes I am a bit scared to learn it but I think its because I love how graceful it is. I have a fairly good standard of playing on the trad side. I only had teaching though from the age of 8 to 12 and didn't have any guidance after that. I really would be learning classical to benefit from it in my trad playing also. Sometimes I think if I got some teaching from a good trad music teacher, that I'd be as well off so I'm open to that too...I just want to learn more skill.....I did start going to a teacher but he couldn't teach me what I wanted to learn....ie: some more types of ornamentation...
As I say I'm still open to learning from a good fiddle teachers in the dublin area, so if there is anyone out there...
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
For fiddle players, I believe it is worthwhile to have had some classical training; involving both the basics of the instrument and the more advanced techniques. Speaking from the perspective of both a classical and irish traditional musician, I personally find that all of the "side effects" of classical music that have spilled into my irish style have had only positive effects on my playing; classical music provided me with the neccessary ground work to execute high-quality techniques, and achieve the best possible tone from my instrument. In addition to this, classical music also promotes the theoretical side to music; though many traditional musicians have a natural ability to "hear" the direction a tune is taking, I have found this understanding of "how music works" to be quintessential in both my playing and composition. I am aware that many classical musicians disregard ITM as an inferior art; however there is also this same prejudice in many traditional circles, against the classical style.
As afore mentioned, the RAB are the best in the business when it comes to classical music. Unfortunately, many classical teachers do tend to lean toward the "dominatrix" end of the scale; they initially appear intimidating and many seem almost sadistic in their pleasure at finally attaining a position of authority. However, seeming as I am only 16 and have encountered some appalling teachers in my time, my view may be somewhat tainted; I have often come to loggerheads with RAB approved teachers about the significance of ITM. Therefore, it is my advice to ask around your fellow musicians; you will be astonished by the amount who can give you contacts, for either past teachers or associates.
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
Hi, I started learning classical viola, and traditional fiddle about 3 years ago. It's been, and continues to be a great experience. We have a small amateur orchestra which plays simple classical music. This started last month.
I sometimes go to a fiddle group, but am not confident enough to join in yet,and often end up playing piano for them, which is OK, and all good experience, in learning to play by ear as well as vamp.The two disciplines are complementary and many people round here will do both, sometimes playing different instruments, sometimes, as with fiddle players, using the same instrument in different ways,
.Some slow airs sound great on the Viola. 2 of our youngest children play, Cello and fiddle, so we have some traditional tunes arranged in 3 parts, which is a lovely feeling.
Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
Hi folks,
I'm new to this. Just stumbled across it by accident, I started playing trad fiddle at the age of 8 years...20 years ago. I played up to the age of 16 and then left it aside for approx 10 years - only getting back to it 2 years ago at the age of 26.
I love trad music but also love classical and would love to learn it - not in a big way but think it would do me no harm.
does anyone know where I could learn in the Dublin area??? Any help/suggestions welcome...thanks!!
# Posted on February 15th 2004 by Paula
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
Go to a music store that carries violins and sheet music - ask them about private tutors. I'd bet they would advertise in the want ads as well. You'll want a beginning teacher as every aspect of playing will be different and you'll pretty much be starting from scratch. Good luck; I'd be interested to know how the transition goes.
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by glenn
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
Oh- and you might consider offering a trade: a classical teacher might waive the fee if she received trad lessons from you...
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by glenn
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
Why would you want to learn classical music when you have the almost infinite tradition to explore for the rest of your life?? I have been playing for 34 years and am still learning tunes, technique, style, interpretation, ..........
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by breandan
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
Breandan-
A lot of classical players are irritating because they feel classical music is the only type of music a "real" musician should play. I'm not sure trad people are less irritating when they have that same attitude. I personally think the problem with classical training is that it encourages people to be robotic about the music. Obviously, Paula wouldn't have that problem.
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by glenn
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
misconceptions, tut tut, classical music is absolutely FAntastic. you wont be learning from scratch if you started with trad. at least you know fingering and bowing already, the tunes are just a bit different, and maybe the bowing is not as complicated, or maybe more i never thought about that one. some classical techniques will help your playing of trad music too.
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by aye
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
Ha ha. I love that. Learning classical fiddle from scratch.
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by ...
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
try the royal irish academy of music. Their the ones who do all the exams for classical music, well on fiddle and piano ne way. Ring up 11850 and get the number. They'll sort you out wit a teacher.
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by shiv1
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
Actually, I used to play classical ages ago. The fingerings are the same obviously - except in classical you must have a strong 4th finger which you don't use a lot in trad. But there is absolutely nothing similar about the bow: you hold it differently, move it differently, the flow of the music is completely different.. everything is different. You hold the instrument differently. You use different techniques for every aspect of playing.
You would not only be starting from scratch, but you'd have to unlearn many of the things that you do without thinking about them now. It would be easier to learn classical having had no experience at all. That being said - both types of training will eventually give you insight into the other.
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by glenn
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
Sorry - should have prefaced the whole thing with "In my opinion..."
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by glenn
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
Classical and trad are equally brill ----trust me.
Jim
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by Worldfiddler
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
Paula,
I think you'll find when learning classical violin that you'll be exploring a much wider range of technical skills. For instance, I shouldn't be surprised when you learn classical vibrato that you'll have more control over it than those with no trad background. I've seen so many classical violinists who seem to have just one sort of vibrato which is always "on", and this isn't necessarily exclusive to the amateurs either! Also, I think you'll probably surprise your classical teacher with your trad player's ability to learn music quickly by ear, and with your freedom of playing, and incidentally the ability to play a clean sound on the open E-string, something which many classical violinists never seem to acquire.
As regards holding this instrument, obviously I don't know your particular hold, but some trad players have a hold that is reminiscent of 18c style. Nothing wrong with that, and I don't see why it shouldn't be ok today (if it was ok for Mozart and Paganini ... etc). I have a theory that the present day idea that a classical violinist should hold the instrument out more or less straight arises out of the belief that the sound is better projected, and that this is helped by the shoulder rest. What I believe in facthappens is that the instrument sounds louder to the player because it is higher and nearer to the player's ear; it doesn't necessarily follow that the sound travels better to the audience.
I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to enjoy classical violin alongside trad fiddle. One doesn't interfere with the other, and in fact, as others have pointed out, there may very well be cross-over benefits.
On a personal note (which I think has some relevance) I was brought up on the classical cello most of my life and started the trad fiddle just 3 years ago this week. I'm self-taught on the technical side of fiddle playing because I found the basic fingering and bowing skills transferred quite easily from the cello (and I've spent most of my cello-playing career watching violinists in my orchestras, so there must have been some sort of osmosis going on), but of course lessons and workshops in trad fiddle music are absolutely essential. I haven't played any classical violin music at all in these 3 years (although Vivaldi does attract me), but interestingly there has been some cross-over of trad fiddle technique back to my cello playing, to its benefit I believe (specifically bowing and control of vibrato), especially when playing pre-Beethoven music.
Let us know how you get on!
Trevor
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
HI All,
Thanks for that. I actually work very near the Royal Academy of Music...kinda afraid to approach the place!! I don't know why I want to learn Classical and sometimes I am a bit scared to learn it but I think its because I love how graceful it is. I have a fairly good standard of playing on the trad side. I only had teaching though from the age of 8 to 12 and didn't have any guidance after that. I really would be learning classical to benefit from it in my trad playing also. Sometimes I think if I got some teaching from a good trad music teacher, that I'd be as well off so I'm open to that too...I just want to learn more skill.....I did start going to a teacher but he couldn't teach me what I wanted to learn....ie: some more types of ornamentation...
As I say I'm still open to learning from a good fiddle teachers in the dublin area, so if there is anyone out there...
# Posted on February 16th 2004 by Paula
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
For fiddle players, I believe it is worthwhile to have had some classical training; involving both the basics of the instrument and the more advanced techniques. Speaking from the perspective of both a classical and irish traditional musician, I personally find that all of the "side effects" of classical music that have spilled into my irish style have had only positive effects on my playing; classical music provided me with the neccessary ground work to execute high-quality techniques, and achieve the best possible tone from my instrument. In addition to this, classical music also promotes the theoretical side to music; though many traditional musicians have a natural ability to "hear" the direction a tune is taking, I have found this understanding of "how music works" to be quintessential in both my playing and composition. I am aware that many classical musicians disregard ITM as an inferior art; however there is also this same prejudice in many traditional circles, against the classical style.
As afore mentioned, the RAB are the best in the business when it comes to classical music. Unfortunately, many classical teachers do tend to lean toward the "dominatrix" end of the scale; they initially appear intimidating and many seem almost sadistic in their pleasure at finally attaining a position of authority. However, seeming as I am only 16 and have encountered some appalling teachers in my time, my view may be somewhat tainted; I have often come to loggerheads with RAB approved teachers about the significance of ITM. Therefore, it is my advice to ask around your fellow musicians; you will be astonished by the amount who can give you contacts, for either past teachers or associates.
Good Luck!
# Posted on February 17th 2004 by never-trust-a-violinist
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
Hi, I started learning classical viola, and traditional fiddle about 3 years ago. It's been, and continues to be a great experience. We have a small amateur orchestra which plays simple classical music. This started last month.
I sometimes go to a fiddle group, but am not confident enough to join in yet,and often end up playing piano for them, which is OK, and all good experience, in learning to play by ear as well as vamp.The two disciplines are complementary and many people round here will do both, sometimes playing different instruments, sometimes, as with fiddle players, using the same instrument in different ways,
.Some slow airs sound great on the Viola. 2 of our youngest children play, Cello and fiddle, so we have some traditional tunes arranged in 3 parts, which is a lovely feeling.
# Posted on February 20th 2004 by gummidge
Re: Where could I get some classical Violin Training?
I once met a man in central London, carrying a violin case. He asked me " How do I get to the Royal Albert Hall?" Keep practising I told him
# Posted on February 23rd 2004 by Martinm