Excuse me if this question's come up before... So basically a chromatic bandoneon is a big, octave-tuned chromatic English concertina...
It's mostly used for tango, but I've heard people do play various kinds of folk music on it, so why not Irish trad? Of course it's totally non-traditional but what interests me is, does it make sense technically?
The background is, I tried and failed to learn the more traditional diatonic version years ago. I'm thinking of having a crack at the (supposedly much easier) chromatic version and it would sweeten the deal if I could play a bunch of tunes I already know!
As always, appreciate any input, and I will also post a similar question on the melodeon site.
You might ask Bertram Levy, the foremost North American bandoneon player. He also plays Irish, Old Time and other genres on the Anglo concertina, so he'd have a good perspective on all this. You can reach him through his website:
I thought a chromatic bandoneon was just a bandoneon shaped device with "continental chromatic" keyboards at both ends? Functionally pretty close to a CC accordion, particularly with a "free bass" left hand, so anything relating to playing ITM on continental chromatic would pretty much apply?
The "original" Bandoneon is bisonoric, with a quite awesome layout : about a a different fingering for each key, each octave... and bellow direction... that means if you play in C, you get eight fingerings, as you have four octaves... just multiply that by the 12 keys, and you'll think playing in Gsharp on a BC box is easy
During the 1930es, when Tango became popular in France and other countries, they made a "chromatic" model, unisonoric, and based on the same layout as the continental chromatic button box (as opposed to piano accordion).
tha Bandoneon was, if my informations are correct, kind of invented by Heinrich Band (hence the name) in Germany, from the German Konzertina (is it chenitzer or Shenitzer ? can't remember exactly...), and its purpose was to play hymns in chrurches that couldn't afford to buy a harmonium... It was used a lot in Germany, to play trad and dance music... IMO, why not use it for ITM ? as long as you respect the style, and groove of Irish music...
just went to the wikipedia page : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandone%C3%B3n
the talk part is quite good. Of course, it's a wee bit tango-centered... but the bouzouki was very greek-centered, till some Irish musicians made it "irish"...
TomB-R is correct (after a bit more reading) - the one I've got my eye on is available in the c-griff and b-griff systems, which are contintental chromatic button systems, so it's the same thing basically.
Not that I know anything at all about those systems but I see there are discussions here about using them in trad, so that'll give me some evidence that it can be done!
[the one I've got my eye on is available in the c-griff and b-griff systems, which are contintental chromatic button systems, so it's the same thing basically.]
sounds as if you are musing over the Geuns "hybrid bandondon," which comes in a high-end model with "true" bandoneon reeds, plus a very nice-sounding economical "hybrid" model with accordion reeds, which is often listed on ebay. it's the one you grip by wrapping your hands around the front of the instrument---is that the one?
people often use the term "chromatic" when they mean "unisonoric," including players and makers, unfortunately. "chromatic" really means, the instrument has all twelve tones, as opposed to "diatonic" instruments such as one-row melodeon or harmonica, which only have the seven tones of a certain scale.....
but when the french started wanting unisonoric bandoneons to cut down on the immense task of learning five octaves in two directions as required by bisonoric bando, they (or perhaps the German bando makers who were responding to this desire with unisonorics?) called them "chromatiques." but the bisonoric ones are also fully chromatic.
only some unisonoric bandoneons are based on the c-griff layout. the Peguri unisonoric bando system and some of its refinements---the systems used in Crosio Fratelli bandos and some of the AA unisonoric bandoneons (all of which the french indeed call "chromatic bandoneons") have some correspondence with C-griff, but are not entirely parallel to that system
but the Harry Geuns wrap-your-hands-around-the-front bando is indeed directly based on C-griff (or B-griff). here is a youtube of the gent from Mandragora Tango playing a high-end Geuns unisonoric bandoneon---this is the one you're looking at?? but you're looking at the "hybrid" accordion-reeded version, right?
the Geuns wrap-your-hands-around instrument with the direct C-griff layout is not how most unisonoric bandos are designed. the button groupings are placed very similarly to those on bisonoric bandos, and as i noted, the layouts are not as fixed of patterns as C-griff.
most of the modern bando makers offer a unisonoric. Uwe Hartenhauer offers THREE unisonoric bando configurations: Peguri system, Manoury system (that is Peguri with some variations; and C-Griff/B-griff. Here is a picture of the Hartenhauer Peguri, just so you can see the difference between this unisonoric bando and the one it sounds like you are looking at:
For clips of people playing unisonoric bandoneons, there is Mandragora Tango, and also the incredible virtuosos Olivier Manoury, and his student William Sabatier.....
You're right on all counts ceemonster - I'm attracted by the lower priced Geuns, which I agree sounds pretty good for the money. I used to own an AA copy - a bisonoric - and it was indeed an "immense task" just to figure out whether you were coming or going.
So I sold it out of frustration in the end - but with some regret. Mr Geuns may just have an affordable remedy
Chromatic Bandoneon
Chromatic Bandoneon
Hi all,
Excuse me if this question's come up before... So basically a chromatic bandoneon is a big, octave-tuned chromatic English concertina...
It's mostly used for tango, but I've heard people do play various kinds of folk music on it, so why not Irish trad? Of course it's totally non-traditional but what interests me is, does it make sense technically?
The background is, I tried and failed to learn the more traditional diatonic version years ago. I'm thinking of having a crack at the (supposedly much easier) chromatic version and it would sweeten the deal if I could play a bunch of tunes I already know!
As always, appreciate any input, and I will also post a similar question on the melodeon site.
Thanks, Paul
# Posted on February 12th 2012 by Paul Brennan
Re: Chromatic Bandoneon
You might ask Bertram Levy, the foremost North American bandoneon player. He also plays Irish, Old Time and other genres on the Anglo concertina, so he'd have a good perspective on all this. You can reach him through his website:
www.bertramlevy.com
# Posted on February 12th 2012 by alec b
Re: Chromatic Bandoneon
I thought a chromatic bandoneon was just a bandoneon shaped device with "continental chromatic" keyboards at both ends? Functionally pretty close to a CC accordion, particularly with a "free bass" left hand, so anything relating to playing ITM on continental chromatic would pretty much apply?
# Posted on February 12th 2012 by TomB-R
Re: Chromatic Bandoneon
The "original" Bandoneon is bisonoric, with a quite awesome layout : about a a different fingering for each key, each octave... and bellow direction... that means if you play in C, you get eight fingerings, as you have four octaves... just multiply that by the 12 keys, and you'll think playing in Gsharp on a BC box is easy
During the 1930es, when Tango became popular in France and other countries, they made a "chromatic" model, unisonoric, and based on the same layout as the continental chromatic button box (as opposed to piano accordion).
tha Bandoneon was, if my informations are correct, kind of invented by Heinrich Band (hence the name) in Germany, from the German Konzertina (is it chenitzer or Shenitzer ? can't remember exactly...), and its purpose was to play hymns in chrurches that couldn't afford to buy a harmonium... It was used a lot in Germany, to play trad and dance music... IMO, why not use it for ITM ? as long as you respect the style, and groove of Irish music...
# Posted on February 12th 2012 by Nikita Pfister
Re: Chromatic Bandoneon
just went to the wikipedia page :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandone%C3%B3n
the talk part is quite good. Of course, it's a wee bit tango-centered... but the bouzouki was very greek-centered, till some Irish musicians made it "irish"...
# Posted on February 12th 2012 by Nikita Pfister
Re: Chromatic Bandoneon
AFAIK the original bandoneon layout, anarchic as it is, is much better suited (ha ha) to chords than fast meoldy.
# Posted on February 12th 2012 by TomB-R
Re: Chromatic Bandoneon
... see what happens when you press the right buttons in the wrong order!
I guess the bandoneon layout is about as logical as the qwertyuiop keyboard!
# Posted on February 12th 2012 by TomB-R
Re: Chromatic Bandoneon
Hi there,
TomB-R is correct (after a bit more reading) - the one I've got my eye on is available in the c-griff and b-griff systems, which are contintental chromatic button systems, so it's the same thing basically.
Not that I know anything at all about those systems but I see there are discussions here about using them in trad, so that'll give me some evidence that it can be done!
Thank you all very much.
# Posted on February 12th 2012 by Paul Brennan
Re: Chromatic Bandoneon
http://bertramlevy.com/
# Posted on February 13th 2012 by ceolachan
Re: Chromatic Bandoneon
[the one I've got my eye on is available in the c-griff and b-griff systems, which are contintental chromatic button systems, so it's the same thing basically.]
sounds as if you are musing over the Geuns "hybrid bandondon," which comes in a high-end model with "true" bandoneon reeds, plus a very nice-sounding economical "hybrid" model with accordion reeds, which is often listed on ebay. it's the one you grip by wrapping your hands around the front of the instrument---is that the one?
people often use the term "chromatic" when they mean "unisonoric," including players and makers, unfortunately. "chromatic" really means, the instrument has all twelve tones, as opposed to "diatonic" instruments such as one-row melodeon or harmonica, which only have the seven tones of a certain scale.....
but when the french started wanting unisonoric bandoneons to cut down on the immense task of learning five octaves in two directions as required by bisonoric bando, they (or perhaps the German bando makers who were responding to this desire with unisonorics?) called them "chromatiques." but the bisonoric ones are also fully chromatic.
only some unisonoric bandoneons are based on the c-griff layout. the Peguri unisonoric bando system and some of its refinements---the systems used in Crosio Fratelli bandos and some of the AA unisonoric bandoneons (all of which the french indeed call "chromatic bandoneons") have some correspondence with C-griff, but are not entirely parallel to that system
but the Harry Geuns wrap-your-hands-around-the-front bando is indeed directly based on C-griff (or B-griff). here is a youtube of the gent from Mandragora Tango playing a high-end Geuns unisonoric bandoneon---this is the one you're looking at?? but you're looking at the "hybrid" accordion-reeded version, right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C5zOKA2jmg
i think this is the "hybrid" accordion-reeded one. it sounds nice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WyWF-P8sbw
# Posted on February 14th 2012 by ceemonster
Re: Chromatic Bandoneon
the Geuns wrap-your-hands-around instrument with the direct C-griff layout is not how most unisonoric bandos are designed. the button groupings are placed very similarly to those on bisonoric bandos, and as i noted, the layouts are not as fixed of patterns as C-griff.
most of the modern bando makers offer a unisonoric. Uwe Hartenhauer offers THREE unisonoric bando configurations: Peguri system, Manoury system (that is Peguri with some variations; and C-Griff/B-griff. Here is a picture of the Hartenhauer Peguri, just so you can see the difference between this unisonoric bando and the one it sounds like you are looking at:
http://www.bandoneon-hartenhauer.de/bandoneons/bandoneonuh146ii.html
Have fun!
For clips of people playing unisonoric bandoneons, there is Mandragora Tango, and also the incredible virtuosos Olivier Manoury, and his student William Sabatier.....
# Posted on February 14th 2012 by ceemonster
Re: Chromatic Bandoneon
You're right on all counts ceemonster - I'm attracted by the lower priced Geuns, which I agree sounds pretty good for the money. I used to own an AA copy - a bisonoric - and it was indeed an "immense task" just to figure out whether you were coming or going.
So I sold it out of frustration in the end - but with some regret. Mr Geuns may just have an affordable remedy
Cheers, Paul
# Posted on February 14th 2012 by Paul Brennan