My favorite Irish Trad recording is Take The Bull By The Horns by the late Tom Doherty, of NYC (b. Donegal). He played a Walters single row box in D. Not sure of his melodeons reed set up, but quess maybe LMMMH or such. I am on a quest to get a similar sound as his Walters, but since these type of boxes are not made any longer, I am considering a GIUSTOZZI diatonic accordion LMMM. I am not sure if the modern LMMH melodeon set up ('Cajun' type) can give me the sound I am looking for. Any ideas are appreciated.
I rather think that when they were recording their albums "The Star-Spangled Molly" and/or "Ballroom", the band De Danann / De Dannan used one or more accordeons or melodeons specially customised to sound like instruments used by the early c20 player John Kimmel in the USA. His instruments evidently had a loud and distinctive sound, supposedly like "a cross between a beehive and a set of bagpipes" - or words to that effect. I suppose the idea was that they would be that much more audible in large, crowded dance halls. I don't know if they had the LMMMH reed set-ups you allude to, but it may be the case.
The accordeon players were Jackie Daly on "The Star-Spangled Molly" and Martin O'Connor on "Ballroom". If you look up Internet details and websites featuring Jackie Daly, Martin O'Connor or De Danann / De Dannan (the band changed its spelling...), you just *might* find information or someone who will tell you if such a Kimmel-type box was customised, and/or where you could get one yourself.
Thanks for mentioning the late Mr. Doherty, may he rest in peace. I never had the chance to meet him but I admire his music very much. For anyone who has not seen "Shore to Shore," he features prominently in that film:
IMO, to get the results you want in commissioning a new box, you ought to find a great accordion tuner or maker and work closely with him or her (no, I don't do that work myself!). It may be a process needing a few trials of different accordions and tunings. It might take some time. And it might not be cheap to get a new box made and tuned to achieve that particular sound to your satisfaction; remember that in the 1940s a nice new Walters accordion might have cost as much as a good used car, or a sizeable fraction of the cost of a house back then! They were very well made, though of course some of their specifications wouldn't suit a lot of modern players -- big, widely spaced buttons, sometimes chiclet shaped, and often only 10 - 15 melody keys. I've never seen Mr. Doherty's Walters in person, but the most similar one I've examined is a 1948 1-row in LMMM. The design and materials give that box a bright ringing sound even without a piccolo (H) reed. The piccolo reed seems more common on Baldoni-Bartolis than on Walters, but you find many different voicings on different Irish-American boxes -- they are extremely variable and customized -- and in fact I have a project Baldoni 2-row here with only LMM that sounds great on the outside row. Kimmel of course played an earlier type of box, probably a Globe or International with 4 stops.
So the construction details and quality of your new box will matter, IMO. Then again, last summer in the Catskills I heard Charlie Harris playing on an old Hohner 4-stop box (LMMH I suppose) and getting a great sound out of it, that I think you would have loved. A lot is how you play it (and Mr. Harris I'm sure knows how to get the most out of one of those, both tuning and playing). On the same trip to NY state I also got to play a bunch of Irish-American boxes tuned by John Nolan and by Peter Cashman; all different but all very nice.
Wouldn't it be great if we could find support to start up an annual festival or convention focused on the players and the tradition of the Irish-American boxes? A few friends of mine and I have been kicking this idea around.* Anyone who would like to help further this project is welcome to contact me.
And congratulations for getting on with having a new box of this sort made today!
Wishing you luck, but don't forget the more reeds the heavier the box. That has made a huge difference to some players I've known who have since opted for something lighter... But maybe you're planning for a single like dear Tom Doherty's. I also love his playing, and seeing him mentioned drew my interest... Don't forget to come back and let us know what happens, and maybe even link us to some audio too.
The folkstreams.net link is fascinating, really good, on the early c20 Irish music greats and the New York scene.
Uncannily, at 15.37 along the clip Prince Charles can be seen evidently in a previous life, as a fiddler - if you look it up, you'll see!.
On a sadder note, I hadn't realised that it was a matter of course for young emigrants in the early c20 never to see their parents and other homeland relations again. I take it they couldn't afford the time and money to do so - unless they simply didn't want to.
Tom Doherty (deceased) sound?
Tom Doherty (deceased) sound?
My favorite Irish Trad recording is Take The Bull By The Horns by the late Tom Doherty, of NYC (b. Donegal). He played a Walters single row box in D. Not sure of his melodeons reed set up, but quess maybe LMMMH or such. I am on a quest to get a similar sound as his Walters, but since these type of boxes are not made any longer, I am considering a GIUSTOZZI diatonic accordion LMMM. I am not sure if the modern LMMH melodeon set up ('Cajun' type) can give me the sound I am looking for. Any ideas are appreciated.
Don
# Posted on January 29th 2012 by gdhow62
Re: Tom Doherty (deceased) sound?
I rather think that when they were recording their albums "The Star-Spangled Molly" and/or "Ballroom", the band De Danann / De Dannan used one or more accordeons or melodeons specially customised to sound like instruments used by the early c20 player John Kimmel in the USA. His instruments evidently had a loud and distinctive sound, supposedly like "a cross between a beehive and a set of bagpipes" - or words to that effect. I suppose the idea was that they would be that much more audible in large, crowded dance halls. I don't know if they had the LMMMH reed set-ups you allude to, but it may be the case.
The accordeon players were Jackie Daly on "The Star-Spangled Molly" and Martin O'Connor on "Ballroom". If you look up Internet details and websites featuring Jackie Daly, Martin O'Connor or De Danann / De Dannan (the band changed its spelling...), you just *might* find information or someone who will tell you if such a Kimmel-type box was customised, and/or where you could get one yourself.
# Posted on January 29th 2012 by nicholas
Re: Tom Doherty (deceased) sound?
The sleeve notes on one of the recordings said Jackie had built the box himself.
# Posted on January 29th 2012 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Tom Doherty (deceased) sound?
Hi Don,
Thanks for mentioning the late Mr. Doherty, may he rest in peace. I never had the chance to meet him but I admire his music very much. For anyone who has not seen "Shore to Shore," he features prominently in that film:
http://www.folkstreams.net/film,191
IMO, to get the results you want in commissioning a new box, you ought to find a great accordion tuner or maker and work closely with him or her (no, I don't do that work myself!). It may be a process needing a few trials of different accordions and tunings. It might take some time. And it might not be cheap to get a new box made and tuned to achieve that particular sound to your satisfaction; remember that in the 1940s a nice new Walters accordion might have cost as much as a good used car, or a sizeable fraction of the cost of a house back then! They were very well made, though of course some of their specifications wouldn't suit a lot of modern players -- big, widely spaced buttons, sometimes chiclet shaped, and often only 10 - 15 melody keys. I've never seen Mr. Doherty's Walters in person, but the most similar one I've examined is a 1948 1-row in LMMM. The design and materials give that box a bright ringing sound even without a piccolo (H) reed. The piccolo reed seems more common on Baldoni-Bartolis than on Walters, but you find many different voicings on different Irish-American boxes -- they are extremely variable and customized -- and in fact I have a project Baldoni 2-row here with only LMM that sounds great on the outside row. Kimmel of course played an earlier type of box, probably a Globe or International with 4 stops.
So the construction details and quality of your new box will matter, IMO. Then again, last summer in the Catskills I heard Charlie Harris playing on an old Hohner 4-stop box (LMMH I suppose) and getting a great sound out of it, that I think you would have loved. A lot is how you play it (and Mr. Harris I'm sure knows how to get the most out of one of those, both tuning and playing). On the same trip to NY state I also got to play a bunch of Irish-American boxes tuned by John Nolan and by Peter Cashman; all different but all very nice.
Wouldn't it be great if we could find support to start up an annual festival or convention focused on the players and the tradition of the Irish-American boxes? A few friends of mine and I have been kicking this idea around.* Anyone who would like to help further this project is welcome to contact me.
And congratulations for getting on with having a new box of this sort made today!
PG
*More on Irish-American boxes and some of their mysteries, from historian, archivist, DJ, and musician Ted McGraw:
http://www.nyfolklore.org/pubs/voic36-3-4/accordion.html
# Posted on January 29th 2012 by Paul Groff
Tom Doherty lives on in his music ~
Wishing you luck, but don't forget the more reeds the heavier the box. That has made a huge difference to some players I've known who have since opted for something lighter... But maybe you're planning for a single like dear Tom Doherty's. I also love his playing, and seeing him mentioned drew my interest... Don't forget to come back and let us know what happens, and maybe even link us to some audio too.
# Posted on January 29th 2012 by ceolachan
Re: Tom Doherty (deceased) sound?
Thanks for the replies, all. The late Jim Coogan once stated that these boxes (Walters) were "as rare as hen's teeth."
Don
# Posted on January 30th 2012 by gdhow62
Re: Tom Doherty (deceased) sound?
The folkstreams.net link is fascinating, really good, on the early c20 Irish music greats and the New York scene.
Uncannily, at 15.37 along the clip Prince Charles can be seen evidently in a previous life, as a fiddler - if you look it up, you'll see!.
On a sadder note, I hadn't realised that it was a matter of course for young emigrants in the early c20 never to see their parents and other homeland relations again. I take it they couldn't afford the time and money to do so - unless they simply didn't want to.
# Posted on January 30th 2012 by nicholas