I've been playing my tenor more lately, and I'm having some issues with keeping it in tune. It's an old pie-plate TB with no markings or identification, but it plays really nice. I've tried tightening the screws on the static tuners, which seems to work for a while. But sometimes the strings will loosen right in front of me while I'm tuning. Would new static tuners be any better? Should there be a minimum number of times a string should be wrapped around? I don't want to spend $100 to get planetary tuners since I only paid $150 for the banjo. But if that's the advice, it's still cheaper than getting a new banjo.
It could be how you are wrapping your A and E strings. There is a method I use that "locks" the string back on itself, but I can't think of a way to describe it in words, but here goes: thread the string through the tuner leaving about a fistful of slack (you have to keep tension on the ball or loop end so it stays set in the tail piece). Bend the string away counter clockwise half-way around the tuner and pass it under the string at the hole, then bend back again tightly over the string. Keep the tension on the string as you tune up.This should leave about 3-4 wraps around when you tighten up to the proper tension. If someone else can explain this better, I'm all ears.
OK. I have a new set of strings and I'll look into that this week. I think I understand what you mean. I don't think I have but 2 or 3 wraps on the current strings. Thanks!
If it is the pegs themselves that are slipping (I assume you mean 'friction pegs' ), then all you need to do is tighten up the little screw in the end.
If the pegs are slipping, and I hate that sort of pegs myself, replace them with geared tuners, of whatever sort. If the whole thing is only worth $150 then there's no point in trying to replace them with a geared tuner that mimics the original appearance, the authenticity police are hardly likely to pursue you for flagrant violations of their laws. Get a reasonable set of worm and cog geared tuners with the buttons hanging out the sides of the head.
Alternatively, leave the thing at home and play a mandola or bouzouki instead.
"I don't want to spend $100 to get planetary tuners since I only paid $150 for the banjo. But if that's the advice, it's still cheaper than getting a new banjo."
The best way to think of it is, if you've managed to get a banjo that you like for $100, you've got a great bargain. If, for a total of $250, you can get a banjo you like that *stays in tune*, you've still got a bargain.
I think it is most likely that it is the pegs slipping, not the strings. If it were the strings slipping through the holes in the pegs, you would notice the free end of the string gradually disappearing into the hole and, eventually, the string would come off altogether. Geared tuners - planetary and worm-drive types - were invented for a reason, i.e. to handle the tension of steel strings. As Guernsey Pete says, if you are not too fussed about appearance, you can fix the problem a lot more cheaply using guitar-type tuners instead of planetary ones.
Thanks for the advice everyone. Guitar tuners sound like a viable option for now. If I can get my playing where I'd like it to be, then I'll think about upgrading to a louder/better banjo. I play fiddle at our weekly session, but I love the sound of banjo with box or flute, and we don't have a regular banjo player. When I have seen a banjo player come in with a pie-plate model, it can hardly be heard. I guess the resonators are there for a reason.
Banjo is new to me, so I really appreciate your input. All the best!
Martin guitar advocates the wrap back method described above. I do it myself but not on the plain steel (not wound). But I always wondered about. What to do for those higher pitched plain steel strings?
I've never found a need to do any of the looping or wrapping stuff. Three or four turns of the plain strings, or two or three of the wound strings, is enough to stop string slippage.
I'd recommend going with guitar tuners. I had the same problem with an old Slingerland. It wouldn't stay in tune and it wasn't valuable, so I bought some cheap guitar tuners and now it works great.
"Martin guitar advocates the wrap back method described above. I do it myself but not on the plain steel (not wound). But I always wondered about. What to do for those higher pitched plain steel strings?"
The alternative is to take 1 1/2 turns above the string hole, then take the rest below the hole, so that the windings cross ( what the sailors call a 'riding turn').
Personally I use the riding turn on the wound strings, and the loop back on the plain steel ones.
As a repairman, it is surprising how often I get even very experienced guitarists bringing in instruments because "the machine heads are slipping". You have to be quite tactful as you point out that the worm gear means machine heads cannot slip, and that if they have a problem either (usually) they are just winding the strings on and hoping for the best, or else the string is sticking in the nut.
Banjo staying in tune
Banjo staying in tune
Hi All,
I've been playing my tenor more lately, and I'm having some issues with keeping it in tune. It's an old pie-plate TB with no markings or identification, but it plays really nice. I've tried tightening the screws on the static tuners, which seems to work for a while. But sometimes the strings will loosen right in front of me while I'm tuning. Would new static tuners be any better? Should there be a minimum number of times a string should be wrapped around? I don't want to spend $100 to get planetary tuners since I only paid $150 for the banjo. But if that's the advice, it's still cheaper than getting a new banjo.
Any help is much appreciated!
Thanks,
Larry
# Posted on January 28th 2012 by nofrets
Re: Banjo staying in tune
It could be how you are wrapping your A and E strings. There is a method I use that "locks" the string back on itself, but I can't think of a way to describe it in words, but here goes: thread the string through the tuner leaving about a fistful of slack (you have to keep tension on the ball or loop end so it stays set in the tail piece). Bend the string away counter clockwise half-way around the tuner and pass it under the string at the hole, then bend back again tightly over the string. Keep the tension on the string as you tune up.This should leave about 3-4 wraps around when you tighten up to the proper tension. If someone else can explain this better, I'm all ears.
# Posted on January 28th 2012 by spencer Nitchie
Re: Banjo staying in tune
OK. I have a new set of strings and I'll look into that this week. I think I understand what you mean. I don't think I have but 2 or 3 wraps on the current strings. Thanks!
# Posted on January 29th 2012 by nofrets
Re: Banjo staying in tune
I agree with what spencer says, if it is your strings slipping. I tried to explain the process in a thread here a while back, it was nearly impossible. But there is an illustrated demonstration here: http://www.victorgann.com/GuitarTools/ChangeStrings/ChangeStrings.htm
If it is the pegs themselves that are slipping (I assume you mean 'friction pegs' ), then all you need to do is tighten up the little screw in the end.
# Posted on January 29th 2012 by skreech
Re: Banjo staying in tune
If the pegs are slipping, and I hate that sort of pegs myself, replace them with geared tuners, of whatever sort. If the whole thing is only worth $150 then there's no point in trying to replace them with a geared tuner that mimics the original appearance, the authenticity police are hardly likely to pursue you for flagrant violations of their laws. Get a reasonable set of worm and cog geared tuners with the buttons hanging out the sides of the head.
Alternatively, leave the thing at home and play a mandola or bouzouki instead.
# Posted on January 29th 2012 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Banjo staying in tune
Pete is right - if the banjo is a low value instrument get a set of these http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Banjo_tuners/Economy_Banjo_Tuners.html (you won't need the 5th string tuner). They fit a simple peg head and are better than friction tuners.
# Posted on January 29th 2012 by RichardB
"I don't want to spend $100 to get planetary tuners since I only paid $150 for the banjo. But if that's the advice, it's still cheaper than getting a new banjo."
The best way to think of it is, if you've managed to get a banjo that you like for $100, you've got a great bargain. If, for a total of $250, you can get a banjo you like that *stays in tune*, you've still got a bargain.
I think it is most likely that it is the pegs slipping, not the strings. If it were the strings slipping through the holes in the pegs, you would notice the free end of the string gradually disappearing into the hole and, eventually, the string would come off altogether. Geared tuners - planetary and worm-drive types - were invented for a reason, i.e. to handle the tension of steel strings. As Guernsey Pete says, if you are not too fussed about appearance, you can fix the problem a lot more cheaply using guitar-type tuners instead of planetary ones.
# Posted on January 29th 2012 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Banjo staying in tune
Thanks for the advice everyone. Guitar tuners sound like a viable option for now. If I can get my playing where I'd like it to be, then I'll think about upgrading to a louder/better banjo. I play fiddle at our weekly session, but I love the sound of banjo with box or flute, and we don't have a regular banjo player. When I have seen a banjo player come in with a pie-plate model, it can hardly be heard. I guess the resonators are there for a reason.
Banjo is new to me, so I really appreciate your input. All the best!
# Posted on January 29th 2012 by nofrets
Re: Banjo staying in tune
Martin guitar advocates the wrap back method described above. I do it myself but not on the plain steel (not wound). But I always wondered about. What to do for those higher pitched plain steel strings?
# Posted on January 30th 2012 by saltcast
Re: Banjo staying in tune
I've never found a need to do any of the looping or wrapping stuff. Three or four turns of the plain strings, or two or three of the wound strings, is enough to stop string slippage.
# Posted on January 30th 2012 by DaveL35
Re: Banjo staying in tune
I'd recommend going with guitar tuners. I had the same problem with an old Slingerland. It wouldn't stay in tune and it wasn't valuable, so I bought some cheap guitar tuners and now it works great.
# Posted on January 31st 2012 by CleverName
Re: Banjo staying in tune
"Martin guitar advocates the wrap back method described above. I do it myself but not on the plain steel (not wound). But I always wondered about. What to do for those higher pitched plain steel strings?"
The alternative is to take 1 1/2 turns above the string hole, then take the rest below the hole, so that the windings cross ( what the sailors call a 'riding turn').
Personally I use the riding turn on the wound strings, and the loop back on the plain steel ones.
As a repairman, it is surprising how often I get even very experienced guitarists bringing in instruments because "the machine heads are slipping". You have to be quite tactful as you point out that the worm gear means machine heads cannot slip, and that if they have a problem either (usually) they are just winding the strings on and hoping for the best, or else the string is sticking in the nut.
# Posted on January 31st 2012 by skreech
Re: Banjo staying in tune
Can't see what the issue is with the old "tuck and three turns" method.
# Posted on January 31st 2012 by Solidmahog