Ok, there's still a lot I don't know about strings and tunings so I have a few of questions.
What are the different types(materials) of strings?
Are there different gauges?
Differences in sound from low tension-high tension?
Will it hurt the instrument if I change the tuning too often?
Common tunings and the styles of music they are used for?
Is it hard to find strings that are set to different notes, or do they even make them for violin?
I have two fiddles and i've been thinking about keeping one of them tuned standard for my tune playing, and the other tuned for songs and pieces that I would use heavy droning in. I was recently inspired by this video of Caoimhín Ó Raghallaigh when a friend told me to look up Hardanger.
I noticed his tuning here was A, E,A, C# and I wanted to do it, but I wasn't sure if it was safe to change the G and D strings to A and E whole step difference. Can't afford breaking strings.
You maybe want to look in the old-time fiddle scene for advice. Bruce Molsky does exactly what you're suggesting - one fiddle kept in standard, the other used in all sorts of scordatura tunings.
I recently had a conversation with a very fine fiddle player about Caoimhín, his new album Deadly Buzz, and his earlier recording with Mick O’Brien, Kitty Lie Over. We were generally just oohing and ahhing over how awesome his playing is. Both albums, of course, feature O’Brien’s low-pitched Bb pipes and Caoimhín’s matching fiddle. “Have you ever tuned to Bb?” the fiddler asked. I’d heard of people doing it but never actually done it myself. “Oh you should!” says she. This fiddler is someone who, whether she’s playing or speaking, I listen to closely.
So I went home and got out my old fiddle, the one I started on, before I bought a much nicer model, and tuned it low-to-high Eb-Bb-F-C.
It’s amazing. Rich and sonorous. It was like adding $1000 to the quality of that fiddle in terms of sound. I play it almost as much as my main fiddle now. Try it—you won’t be sorry.
I have 2 fiddles. I keep one in standard tuning and one in GDGD for old-timey droney tunes. AEAE is common for this, but I prefer the lower G. I just play the old-time tunes in G instead of A, and it seems to work just fine.
I've heard plenty of warnings about tuning higher (you'll break strings! you'll warp your fiddle!) but I've never actually met anyone this has happened to. Small sample size, though; there are many fiddlers I haven't met. Most of them, actually!
I suggest just trying it and having fun. Oh, and listen to people like Lester McCumber.
As NewToAll implies, scordatura is relatively rare in Irish traditional music but very common in American oldtimey. Patrick Kelly of Cree, Co Clare famously tuned his fiddle I think AEAE for the Foxhunter's Reel.
If you read a few of the interview transcriptions in Martin Taaffe's thesis, you'll find that Kelly used the AEAE and GDGD crosstunings for a few tunes, not just the Foxhunter's reel, and the influence seems to have come from his father. That in turn puts you on the track of George Whelan, the traveling fiddle master who went back and forth between Kerry and Clare. Padraig o'Keeffe was known to cross-tune for some slow airs, and there are a few recordings of Denis Murphy playing tunes that way as well. Probably never hugely common, but not unknown either.
Donegal has its own set of non-standard tunings which have been known to include some of the more old-timey sounding ones, like DDAE or DDAD, for tunes like pipe marches. You may be a able to pick it off John Doherty, if I remember correctly.
I'm a big fan of cross-tuning and flat-tuning. Plenty of fiddle players do it, or have traditionally done it, depending on things like the pitch of resident pipers' sets or the manufacture of the most popular accordions in the region (Padraig o'Keeffe, Denis Murphy, Julia Clifford etc., all play in C# because the C/C# box was common in Sliabh Luachra at the time). No reason not to give it a whirl. Changing tuning won't necessarily *hurt* the instrument, but the strings won't really stay put when you first retune, and you'll want to watch your bridge to make sure it doesn't warp or tip.
Flat tuning (or sharp tuning) ---- the relationship between the strings stays the same, so your fingering is no different than standard tuning. Tuning flat is most often done to play along with instruments that are flatter than concert pitch, i.e a set of flat pipes in C, B or Bflat. Example of this would be Caoimhin O'Raghallaigh on those albums with Mick O'Brien.
Some people also do this because they like the sound the get from the fiddle... deeper, raspier, richer, mellower... depending on your fiddle obviously, some fiddles respond to this better than others.
Tuning sharp... probably the best known instance of this is going up half a step. The higher tension gives the fiddle a brighter sound, and a quicker response if you like playing fast. There were many albums recorded in the 70's and 80's like this, as you find out quickly enough when you try to play along with them.
Cross tuning ---- this is another beast entirely. This is when you deviate from the standard fifth's tuning. There is a fancy name for it, "Scordatura", and was popular with some Classical composers during the Baroque period.
It is not very common in Irish music, though there are some well known examples, the most well known has already been mentioned... Patrick Kelly playing the Foxhunter's Reel in cross tuned AEae.
There are any number of ways to cross tune, but the most common would be
--- ADae.... often called "cross/open D"... the G string us tuned up to an A, allowing for some nice drones across the low A and D strings, and allowing one to repeat the same fingering one uses on the regular A string. This tuning is VERY common in Old Time music.
--- AEae.... often called "cross/open A".... the low G and D are both tuned up one step. Really brings the fiddle to life in the key of A with all the droning and sympathetic harmonics. Allows one to play the same fingering an octave up or down.
This tuning is also VERY common in OT music, and I believe the Scandinavians use it too.
---- GDgd... the is for all intents and purposes the same thing as AEae, you are just tuned down one step. If you are uncomfortable tuning your low strings up a step (fear of snapping strings or damaging your fiddle), then try this tuning. It's mellower and less bright than AEae because of less tension.
Another variant on this are FCfc, but once again, think of it as a lower version of AEae, you finger the same way.
---- AEac# .... often called Calico tuning.... a slight deviation from AEae. You tune your E string down to a C#. This allow you to get a double C# thing going with you slide up to the C# on the higher A string and drone over the open C#.... sounds pretty cool.
Used in OT music, though not near as common as open A and open D. Would be pretty common in Scandinavian music too.
You could do a G variation on this by tuning GDgb.
---- DDad... you've got the low string all the way down to a very low D. Not all fiddles respond well to the floppiness of the low D.
GDad.... used in OT music for some G tunes, mostly for the effect of the sliding up the D on the A string and droning that over the open D.
ADad.... similar to above but mostly used with certain D tunes.
Experimenting with either flat tuning or cross tuning in Irish music can be fun, but is more something you will do at home. It doesn't really fit into the session setting because i) you have to be in tune with everyone else, which 99% of the time means flutes at concert pitch and boxes and concertinas set up for "standard keys" and ii) you are usually switching keys a lot.
It works in OT music because you stay in the one key for while and you usually play one tune at a tune. After a hour of playing in D someone goes to "let's play in A" and then every takes a few minutes to retune their instruments, and then you stay in A for a while, until you get sick of that and decide to go to G or C etc. It's considered bad etiquette in OT music to switch keys without announcing first or getting a general consensus.
Btw, there are some regional OT traditions and individual fiddlers that didn't cross tune and played everything out of standard.
Regarding strings. That is very much an individual choice. Each fiddle responds differently to different strings too, so what works on one might not get the same sound on another. You are just going to have to experiment, which can be costly given the price of strings.
Something to consider is to ask any of your local fiddlers (irregardless of genre) if they have some used sets, preferably lightly used, that they don't use anymore and trying those out.
The basic types are steel, synthetic and gut. The former are the cheapest, the latter are the most expensive and are primarily the domain of Classical players.
If you were to do a poll, you'd probably find the most commonly used brands would be Helicore, Dominant and Prims. I've generally found Helicore to be a good fall back string when all else fails.... but that is my ears and on my fiddles. I'm sure someone will be along to say they wouldn't use Helicores to strangle the devil. So YMMV.
Probably the nicest strings I've used were Evah Pirazzi's, but they were too pricey (around $80) and I found they didn't last long enough (6-8 weeks) to justify the cost.
There's a fiddler at my session who has a nice sound, so I asked him about his strings. They are Thomastic Spirocore, and he thought he had had them on there for 8 years, maybe more. 8 years of frequent sessions.
I had been changing my Dominant strings every 3 or 4 months, but I have kept the last set on far longer than that and they still sound fine. I tried Spirocores but they were incredibly horrible on my fiddle, difficult to get a sound out of them.
String tension changes can disturb the sound of a fiddle. It might not matter so much if you are playing loud and hard at a session, but if you are playing quietly at home or recording yourself you can find it takes the fiddle a while to settle down.
I have always liked tuning the fiddle down a semi-tone or two, and I liked Caoimhín Ó Raghallaigh's sound when I first heard it, bought the Kitty Lie Over album, but rather to my surprise I have tired of the sound. I think he has taken the fiddle too low at B flat.
A not so good fiddle can improve a lot in sound when it's tuned down. So it can be worthwhile getting a cheap one to use for lowered tunings, and then you aren't messing around with your main fiddle.
A useful string setup that is worth investigating is steel E and A, with synthetic D and G. The two steel strings give the top brightness and power, while the lower synthetics help the overall resonance and projection. I've found in the past if I have steel D and G the tone is a little tight, and the resonance suffers. This can happen with high tension synthetics (such Evah Pirazzi), or so I've found on both my fiddles. Lower tension synthetics work much better. Try Larsen Tzigane (not the regular Larsens, which have a higher tension) - the Larsen Tzigane A is worth looking at if you don't want a metal A. In fact, the Larsen Tzigane set has one of the best projections I've come across, and the tone matches it. Apparently, the Tziganes have been designed with folk fiddle in mind (but that doesn't stop me from also using them in orchestra). They're available on the stringzone website.
AEAC# in US old-time music is usually named after the tunes played in this tuning: Indian on a Stump tuning; The Hanged Man tuning. 'The Hanged Man's Reel': a condemned man standing at the gallows was given a fiddle tuned like this and told that if he could play a tune on it he would be set free. This is his tune, but the name suggests a different ending. Google the name for videos and notation by dot or ABC.
Steel strings tuned alot higher may cause problems with the fiddle. Other (soft core) types shouldn't, tho the strings won't last as long compared with being tuned where they expected to be.
About strings and tunings for fiddle
About strings and tunings for fiddle
Ok, there's still a lot I don't know about strings and tunings so I have a few of questions.
What are the different types(materials) of strings?
Are there different gauges?
Differences in sound from low tension-high tension?
Will it hurt the instrument if I change the tuning too often?
Common tunings and the styles of music they are used for?
Is it hard to find strings that are set to different notes, or do they even make them for violin?
I have two fiddles and i've been thinking about keeping one of them tuned standard for my tune playing, and the other tuned for songs and pieces that I would use heavy droning in. I was recently inspired by this video of Caoimhín Ó Raghallaigh when a friend told me to look up Hardanger.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R48lXNaeT00
I noticed his tuning here was A, E,A, C# and I wanted to do it, but I wasn't sure if it was safe to change the G and D strings to A and E whole step difference. Can't afford breaking strings.
# Posted on January 27th 2012 by fiddlelearner
Re: About strings and tunings for fiddle
You maybe want to look in the old-time fiddle scene for advice. Bruce Molsky does exactly what you're suggesting - one fiddle kept in standard, the other used in all sorts of scordatura tunings.
# Posted on January 27th 2012 by Jack Campin
Re: About strings and tunings for fiddle
I have no advice about tunings - but if you're interested in hardanger fiddling, check out Mariel Vandersteel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOTZANoqgIM&feature=colike
# Posted on January 27th 2012 by faerie.song
Re: About strings and tunings for fiddle
Thanks faerie.song, that's beautiful stuff.
# Posted on January 27th 2012 by fiddlelearner
Re: About strings and tunings for fiddle
I recently had a conversation with a very fine fiddle player about Caoimhín, his new album Deadly Buzz, and his earlier recording with Mick O’Brien, Kitty Lie Over. We were generally just oohing and ahhing over how awesome his playing is. Both albums, of course, feature O’Brien’s low-pitched Bb pipes and Caoimhín’s matching fiddle. “Have you ever tuned to Bb?” the fiddler asked. I’d heard of people doing it but never actually done it myself. “Oh you should!” says she. This fiddler is someone who, whether she’s playing or speaking, I listen to closely.
So I went home and got out my old fiddle, the one I started on, before I bought a much nicer model, and tuned it low-to-high Eb-Bb-F-C.
It’s amazing. Rich and sonorous. It was like adding $1000 to the quality of that fiddle in terms of sound. I play it almost as much as my main fiddle now. Try it—you won’t be sorry.
# Posted on January 27th 2012 by fidkid
Re: About strings and tunings for fiddle
I have 2 fiddles. I keep one in standard tuning and one in GDGD for old-timey droney tunes. AEAE is common for this, but I prefer the lower G. I just play the old-time tunes in G instead of A, and it seems to work just fine.
I've heard plenty of warnings about tuning higher (you'll break strings! you'll warp your fiddle!) but I've never actually met anyone this has happened to. Small sample size, though; there are many fiddlers I haven't met. Most of them, actually!
I suggest just trying it and having fun. Oh, and listen to people like Lester McCumber.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TGS_01ggbI
# Posted on January 27th 2012 by NewToItAll
Re: About strings and tunings for fiddle
Lester McCumbers. sorry.
# Posted on January 27th 2012 by NewToItAll
Re: About strings and tunings for fiddle
As NewToAll implies, scordatura is relatively rare in Irish traditional music but very common in American oldtimey. Patrick Kelly of Cree, Co Clare famously tuned his fiddle I think AEAE for the Foxhunter's Reel.
# Posted on January 27th 2012 by fidkid
Re: About strings and tunings for fiddle
If you read a few of the interview transcriptions in Martin Taaffe's thesis, you'll find that Kelly used the AEAE and GDGD crosstunings for a few tunes, not just the Foxhunter's reel, and the influence seems to have come from his father. That in turn puts you on the track of George Whelan, the traveling fiddle master who went back and forth between Kerry and Clare. Padraig o'Keeffe was known to cross-tune for some slow airs, and there are a few recordings of Denis Murphy playing tunes that way as well. Probably never hugely common, but not unknown either.
Donegal has its own set of non-standard tunings which have been known to include some of the more old-timey sounding ones, like DDAE or DDAD, for tunes like pipe marches. You may be a able to pick it off John Doherty, if I remember correctly.
I'm a big fan of cross-tuning and flat-tuning. Plenty of fiddle players do it, or have traditionally done it, depending on things like the pitch of resident pipers' sets or the manufacture of the most popular accordions in the region (Padraig o'Keeffe, Denis Murphy, Julia Clifford etc., all play in C# because the C/C# box was common in Sliabh Luachra at the time). No reason not to give it a whirl. Changing tuning won't necessarily *hurt* the instrument, but the strings won't really stay put when you first retune, and you'll want to watch your bridge to make sure it doesn't warp or tip.
--Dan
# Posted on January 27th 2012 by Danjo
Re: About strings and tunings for fiddle
The OP also asked about materials. SO what kind and guage of strings do most people use? Steel, Prims, mediums?
# Posted on January 27th 2012 by saltcast
Re: About strings and tunings for fiddle
Flat tuning (or sharp tuning) ---- the relationship between the strings stays the same, so your fingering is no different than standard tuning. Tuning flat is most often done to play along with instruments that are flatter than concert pitch, i.e a set of flat pipes in C, B or Bflat. Example of this would be Caoimhin O'Raghallaigh on those albums with Mick O'Brien.
Some people also do this because they like the sound the get from the fiddle... deeper, raspier, richer, mellower... depending on your fiddle obviously, some fiddles respond to this better than others.
Tuning sharp... probably the best known instance of this is going up half a step. The higher tension gives the fiddle a brighter sound, and a quicker response if you like playing fast. There were many albums recorded in the 70's and 80's like this, as you find out quickly enough when you try to play along with them.
Cross tuning ---- this is another beast entirely. This is when you deviate from the standard fifth's tuning. There is a fancy name for it, "Scordatura", and was popular with some Classical composers during the Baroque period.
It is not very common in Irish music, though there are some well known examples, the most well known has already been mentioned... Patrick Kelly playing the Foxhunter's Reel in cross tuned AEae.
There are any number of ways to cross tune, but the most common would be
--- ADae.... often called "cross/open D"... the G string us tuned up to an A, allowing for some nice drones across the low A and D strings, and allowing one to repeat the same fingering one uses on the regular A string. This tuning is VERY common in Old Time music.
--- AEae.... often called "cross/open A".... the low G and D are both tuned up one step. Really brings the fiddle to life in the key of A with all the droning and sympathetic harmonics. Allows one to play the same fingering an octave up or down.
This tuning is also VERY common in OT music, and I believe the Scandinavians use it too.
---- GDgd... the is for all intents and purposes the same thing as AEae, you are just tuned down one step. If you are uncomfortable tuning your low strings up a step (fear of snapping strings or damaging your fiddle), then try this tuning. It's mellower and less bright than AEae because of less tension.
Another variant on this are FCfc, but once again, think of it as a lower version of AEae, you finger the same way.
---- AEac# .... often called Calico tuning.... a slight deviation from AEae. You tune your E string down to a C#. This allow you to get a double C# thing going with you slide up to the C# on the higher A string and drone over the open C#.... sounds pretty cool.
Used in OT music, though not near as common as open A and open D. Would be pretty common in Scandinavian music too.
You could do a G variation on this by tuning GDgb.
---- DDad... you've got the low string all the way down to a very low D. Not all fiddles respond well to the floppiness of the low D.
GDad.... used in OT music for some G tunes, mostly for the effect of the sliding up the D on the A string and droning that over the open D.
ADad.... similar to above but mostly used with certain D tunes.
Experimenting with either flat tuning or cross tuning in Irish music can be fun, but is more something you will do at home. It doesn't really fit into the session setting because i) you have to be in tune with everyone else, which 99% of the time means flutes at concert pitch and boxes and concertinas set up for "standard keys" and ii) you are usually switching keys a lot.
It works in OT music because you stay in the one key for while and you usually play one tune at a tune. After a hour of playing in D someone goes to "let's play in A" and then every takes a few minutes to retune their instruments, and then you stay in A for a while, until you get sick of that and decide to go to G or C etc. It's considered bad etiquette in OT music to switch keys without announcing first or getting a general consensus.
Btw, there are some regional OT traditions and individual fiddlers that didn't cross tune and played everything out of standard.
# Posted on January 27th 2012 by Paddy the Plasterer
Re: About strings and tunings for fiddle
Regarding strings. That is very much an individual choice. Each fiddle responds differently to different strings too, so what works on one might not get the same sound on another. You are just going to have to experiment, which can be costly given the price of strings.
Something to consider is to ask any of your local fiddlers (irregardless of genre) if they have some used sets, preferably lightly used, that they don't use anymore and trying those out.
The basic types are steel, synthetic and gut. The former are the cheapest, the latter are the most expensive and are primarily the domain of Classical players.
If you were to do a poll, you'd probably find the most commonly used brands would be Helicore, Dominant and Prims. I've generally found Helicore to be a good fall back string when all else fails.... but that is my ears and on my fiddles. I'm sure someone will be along to say they wouldn't use Helicores to strangle the devil. So YMMV.
Probably the nicest strings I've used were Evah Pirazzi's, but they were too pricey (around $80) and I found they didn't last long enough (6-8 weeks) to justify the cost.
# Posted on January 27th 2012 by Paddy the Plasterer
Re: About strings and tunings for fiddle
There's a detailed discussion of types of strings here: http://www.violinist.com/wiki/violin-strings/
There's a fiddler at my session who has a nice sound, so I asked him about his strings. They are Thomastic Spirocore, and he thought he had had them on there for 8 years, maybe more. 8 years of frequent sessions.
I had been changing my Dominant strings every 3 or 4 months, but I have kept the last set on far longer than that and they still sound fine. I tried Spirocores but they were incredibly horrible on my fiddle, difficult to get a sound out of them.
String tension changes can disturb the sound of a fiddle. It might not matter so much if you are playing loud and hard at a session, but if you are playing quietly at home or recording yourself you can find it takes the fiddle a while to settle down.
I have always liked tuning the fiddle down a semi-tone or two, and I liked Caoimhín Ó Raghallaigh's sound when I first heard it, bought the Kitty Lie Over album, but rather to my surprise I have tired of the sound. I think he has taken the fiddle too low at B flat.
A not so good fiddle can improve a lot in sound when it's tuned down. So it can be worthwhile getting a cheap one to use for lowered tunings, and then you aren't messing around with your main fiddle.
# Posted on January 27th 2012 by Bernie 29
Re: About strings and tunings for fiddle
A useful string setup that is worth investigating is steel E and A, with synthetic D and G. The two steel strings give the top brightness and power, while the lower synthetics help the overall resonance and projection. I've found in the past if I have steel D and G the tone is a little tight, and the resonance suffers. This can happen with high tension synthetics (such Evah Pirazzi), or so I've found on both my fiddles. Lower tension synthetics work much better. Try Larsen Tzigane (not the regular Larsens, which have a higher tension) - the Larsen Tzigane A is worth looking at if you don't want a metal A. In fact, the Larsen Tzigane set has one of the best projections I've come across, and the tone matches it. Apparently, the Tziganes have been designed with folk fiddle in mind (but that doesn't stop me from also using them in orchestra). They're available on the stringzone website.
# Posted on January 28th 2012 by Trevor Jennings
Re: About strings and tunings for fiddle
Absolutely love my Evahs. Worth the expense to be honest.
Cathal Hayden plays a lot tuned up half a step. Aidan O'Rourke does it a bit too, especially if he's playing along with Brian Finnegan.
# Posted on January 28th 2012 by SmashTheWindows
Re: About strings and tunings for fiddle
Just as an aside, never mind the folks who pretend to play hardanger, here's the real thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLhvTmBuqz0
And if you ever get a chance to see him live, just go. It's astonishing.
# Posted on January 29th 2012 by ethical blend
Re: About strings and tunings for fiddle
Thanks guys for all the helpful info
# Posted on January 30th 2012 by fiddlelearner
Re: About strings and tunings for fiddle
AEAC# in US old-time music is usually named after the tunes played in this tuning: Indian on a Stump tuning; The Hanged Man tuning. 'The Hanged Man's Reel': a condemned man standing at the gallows was given a fiddle tuned like this and told that if he could play a tune on it he would be set free. This is his tune, but the name suggests a different ending. Google the name for videos and notation by dot or ABC.
Steel strings tuned alot higher may cause problems with the fiddle. Other (soft core) types shouldn't, tho the strings won't last as long compared with being tuned where they expected to be.
vlnplyr
# Posted on January 30th 2012 by vlnplyr