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You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

I'm at my sister's wedding party and have my fiddle with me. The guests request some fiddle music to dance to, and my mother, a classical pianist, has a keyboard set up. So we play a waltz, and then some standards that she knows (Ashokan Farewell, Cotton Eyed Joe, Devil's Dream). People are dancing and want more. I know lots of Irish tunes but had trouble coming up with ones that my mother, who doesn't really know ITM, could accompany. We agreed on Pachelbel's Frolics, since she knew the classical Canon in D, so I scribbled down the eight chords for her and it worked out nicely.

So my question is, what tunes come to mind where you can shout or jot down an easy 3 or 4-chord trick for a "backer" that doesn't know the tune. I can think of that Lunasa D-Em-Bm-A riff for The Wedding Reel, which also conveniently fits all five parts of Lord Gordon's if you're not too picky. D-G-Bm-A works nicely for Miss Monaghan.

Any other ideas?

# Posted on January 11th 2012 by Bleedin' Heart

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

Why three , when two can do ;-)
The Old Bush maybe

# Posted on January 11th 2012 by bazouki dave

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

Ditch your mother and play on your own

# Posted on January 11th 2012 by ...

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

Yes, D-G-Bm-A works nicely for Miss Monaghan. But your prospective accompanist must be able to:

1. Change chords at the right time (i.e., be able to count to four).

2. Make a B minor chord on guitar.

I can attest from personal experience that not every "guitarist" has these skills.

# Posted on January 11th 2012 by John Galt

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

Which would be C and D then? I guess it works, but it might get a bit sketchy in the B-part. Thanks!

# Posted on January 11th 2012 by Bleedin' Heart

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

C&D for Old Bush (silly crossposts...)

# Posted on January 11th 2012 by Bleedin' Heart

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

"I can attest from personal experience that not every "guitarist" has these skills."

Mom's a pianist, so this doesn't apply so much.

Try the minor tunes - plenty of Em and Am tunes can survive a i-VII vamp, as long as the accompanist can hear where the changes fall. Just stay away from Humors of Lissadell or Sailing Into Walpole's Marsh.

# Posted on January 11th 2012 by Jon Kiparsky

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

I guess a i-VII-VI-v trick would work for the minor tunes, too. I'm trying to run Ships are Sailing and Cooley's through my head with the chords.

re llig, it's for those situations where it's socially unacceptable to ditch to backer. I've also done "solo" stuff with callers at another wedding, but my mom wanted to play for her daughter. ;-)

# Posted on January 11th 2012 by Bleedin' Heart

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

You say that your mother is classically trained. So why not just write out the dots for all the tunes you have in mind, with suitable chords (annotated by letter) above the stave?

# Posted on January 11th 2012 by Mix O'Lydian

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

@Mix: We were in the middle of playing for guests and I was looking for a quick and dirty solution.

# Posted on January 11th 2012 by Bleedin' Heart

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

"The Old Bush maybe"

That's a 6u99er of a tune to back - like Rakish Paddy - epecially if the backer doesn't know the tune. You could probably get away with alternating C & D, one bar of each, in the A-part, but it would sound very wrong in the B-part.

There are plenty of tunes in the Dorian mode that don't really need more than two chords:

Cooley's Reel Em/D
The Mist Covered Mountain Am/G

...and in the Mixolydian mode:
The Monaghan Twig A/G
The Holly Bush D/C

The difficulty with backing any tune is that the chords often follow a seemingly predictable pattern until, without warning, they break out of the pattern. So, as tune-bearer, it is your responisbility to alert the have-a-go backer to these inconsistencies.

Would be reasonable to assume, since your mother is a classical pianist, that she has a musical ear? You could try picking out tunes that are heavily arpeggio-based, as the chords are more obvious. One tune that springs to mind is The Handsome Young Maidens by Charlie Lennon. The Harvest Home is another one. I wouldn't expect her to get them on the fly, necessarily, but a run-through the day before might be enough.

# Posted on January 11th 2012 by CreadurMawnOrganig

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

Humors Of Tulla, Heather Breeze, McCleods Reel, Rolling In The Ryegrass, Drowsy Maggie.

# Posted on January 11th 2012 by Joseph Tailyour

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

"Ditch your mother and play on your own"
The only sensible advice on the page.

# Posted on January 11th 2012 by Backer

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

If you're handy you could make one of these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bexIdm0awwo

# Posted on January 11th 2012 by Toppish

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

PS

I'd spend a little practice time working with a backer - it will save a lot of pain when playing time comes around. If a backer doesn't know the tunes there's little use trying to train them on the spot.

# Posted on January 11th 2012 by Toppish

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

@ Toppish link- I suppose the biggest thing we've learned from the internet is that too many people have too much time on their hands. The second is that too many people really aren't worried about making a fool of themselves.

# Posted on January 11th 2012 by cbw

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

Heh--kind of like, you have 30 seconds to post your comment...

# Posted on January 11th 2012 by John Galt

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

... or it will disappear.

# Posted on January 11th 2012 by John Galt

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

"Ditch your mother and play on your own"

Hey, that's his mother you're talking about.

Do the gig sans any preparation, in the wake of the ensuing disaster give her a good screaming out. That'll motivate her to learn.

This comment took about 15 seconds to think of.

# Posted on January 11th 2012 by Kevin Rietmann

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

In the interests of balance,

To Bleedin' Hearts mum,

Ditch the fiddle player and play on your own.

# Posted on January 11th 2012 by ormepipes

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

Rough crowd tonight... :-/

# Posted on January 12th 2012 by Bleedin' Heart

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

Two family members want to make music together, everyone is enjoying it and dancing along, and the session.org nattering nabobs of negativity find a way to put them down? Shame on you. Making music together and having fun is what it's all about.
Regarding chords, some of the basic tricks to finding what works are in the accompaniment article I have in my profile, although you couldn't fit that tutorial in 30 seconds.
However, no matter what information you give people, I am constantly surprised at those who know the key of the tune, know that the old I/IV/V chords will fit, but are for some reason unable to hear where those chords should go.
And the other thing that always gets downplayed is finding the right rhythm. Doesn't matter what chords you play if your playing is a drag on the melody players.
But when it does work, and folks are dancing along, and you are having fun with the people you love, what could be better?

# Posted on January 12th 2012 by AlBrown

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

Amen to that, Al.

# Posted on January 12th 2012 by Michele Sims

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

Sorry to drift off topic a little but "The Wedding Reel"?? Why does this error keep on getting repeated? The tune is called McLeod's Farewell and was written by Donald Shaw. Lunasa got it wrong - although it is a cracking track.

And, I suppose, whilst we are on the topic of McLeods - It is "Mrs McLeod's Reel" or "Mrs McLeod of Raasay" and not "McCleods Reel".

Anyway that is my bit of pedantry before going to sleep. Llig has easily given the best advice except that it is a family do so it doesn't really matter so much. Best just to have fun and not to worry about it.

# Posted on January 12th 2012 by No Cause For Alarm

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

Certainly don't spring The Old Bush on her or Rakish Paddy or Bunker Hill. They are all a nightmare if you don't know them. Having said that Bunker Hill is an utter cracker of a tune.

No to the Chicago Reel too. The 2nd part to that is just wrong.

# Posted on January 12th 2012 by No Cause For Alarm

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

Thanks for the ideas, guys.

I guess with a topic like this you should always start with a caveat that 1) ITM was doing fine by itself before backers came along, 2) some of the finest ITM I've ever heard was played solo* and 3) bad backers are spawn of the devil. Just so you don't get me wrong.


*like this guy here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHqFlS3gNMs

# Posted on January 12th 2012 by Bleedin' Heart

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

"ITM was doing fine by itself before backers came along"
So you've been around how long exactly? Irish traditional music is around a very long time, it changes constantly and evolves constantly as well. If you stand back and listen you'll soon realise that sole playing accounts for maybe 5% of what goes on in ITM. To suggest that backing is a new arrival is a idiotic. Good backing is a fairly rare thing, like good sole playing. There's nothing more difficult than trying to accompany an incompetent "soloist".

# Posted on January 12th 2012 by Backer

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

"If a backer doesn't know the tunes there's little use trying to train them on the spot."
Funny that.
" but had trouble coming up with ones that my mother, who doesn't really know ITM, could accompany"
That really answers itself.

# Posted on January 12th 2012 by Backer

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

The High Reel or many of the tunes the Dubliners do, Ronnie's accompaniment is always dead simple

# Posted on January 12th 2012 by Surly Boy

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

(if sometimes somewhat erroneous)

# Posted on January 12th 2012 by Surly Boy

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

"To suggest that backing is a new arrival is idiotic"

Back atcha: "you've been around for how long exactly?"
Maybe you could be more specific - how long do you think people have been playing chordal accompaniment to dance tunes? I'm thinking it's an innovation of the early twentieth century, which leaves plenty of time for trad music to have been doing fine before it.
If you disagree on the timing, what's the timing you'd hold to?

And if you don't mind, try doing it without the name-calling, just for the sport.

# Posted on January 12th 2012 by Jon Kiparsky

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

It's Miss McLeod's in Irish music. "Mrs McLeod's" is what they call it in Scotchland. Get with the Shamrocks. Oh, for that underline tag from HTML...

# Posted on January 12th 2012 by Kevin Rietmann

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

"If you stand back and listen you'll soon realise that sole playing accounts for maybe 5% of what goes on in ITM"

Today, in recorded music, probably so. Today's recorded music represents almost nothing of the tradition, though - it does go back a little ways, and it hasn't always been post-Bothy combos with four melody instruments, two strummy things, and a singer, and it isn't mostly that now.

"There's nothing more difficult than trying to accompany an incompetent soloist."

This almost sounds like you believe it's the "soloist's" job to be easy to accompany. When you're in a band, that's true enough. But if you're playing this music for real, no not at all. It's the musician's job to play with other musicians - if the accompanist can't keep up, they can drop out and bring another round of pints.

# Posted on January 12th 2012 by Jon Kiparsky

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

'Good backing is a fairly rare thing, like good sole playing.'

Yes, indeed, you can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish. Here's a traditional British dance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9SSOWORzw4

# Posted on January 12th 2012 by MacCruiskeen

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

Play lots of Amix tunes. You can probably get away with Amin and Gmaj chords :D

# Posted on January 12th 2012 by SmashTheWindows

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

Do yah like good music - yeah yeah
That sweet sole music - yeah yeah

# Posted on January 12th 2012 by johndsamuels

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

Hmmn, 30 seconds ---

Miss McLeod.
Wind That shakes The Barley.
Conny O'Connell's.
Out On The Ocean.
Maid Behind The Bar.
Rory MacLeod's.
Boys Of Ballmote.

(This list is not comprehensive)

I almost hate writing this here but -
As a matter of practicality I have keep a few sheets of simple tunes with the chords in my fiddle case. Once or thrice, I have met a backer who could follow along with the dots, and it gave them a chance to get the symptoms of a couple of tunes a little faster. They then were able to dispose of the crutch, and get on to listening and learning how the tune goes ;-)

The results were, unsurprisingly, nothing to write home about, but it worked out all right. A good time had by all, so-
Winning!

I took 40 seconds, do I still get credit?
:-/

# Posted on January 12th 2012 by Piece

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

"Play lots of Amix tunes. You can probably get away with Amin and Gmaj chords :D"

Well seeing as the Amin chord would be wrong I wouldn't follow Smash's advice...

# Posted on January 13th 2012 by No Cause For Alarm

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

I always hear that McLeod's Reel travelled from Scotland to Ireland. But along the way, the Mrs. seems to have become a Miss. Which is opposite from the normal course. Perhaps it was the Scots who borrowed it from the Irish?

# Posted on January 13th 2012 by AlBrown

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

Good catch NCFA, now, for bonus points, do you think Smash was:
a. Mistaken?
b. Malicious?
or c. Simply a poor typist?

# Posted on January 13th 2012 by AlBrown

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

Jon , I should'nt have to explain this, but referring to a notion as "idiotic" doesn't constitute name calling. Maccruiskeen, while the term "sole"was a typo, on reading it I felt it described the phenomenon better than "solo". But hey, with some of the mind reading that goes on here, you probably knew that already! Now I must return to my strumming.....

# Posted on January 13th 2012 by Backer

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

A mixture between (b) and (c)...

# Posted on January 13th 2012 by SmashTheWindows

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

@Al - No. The original name is Mrs McLeod of Raasay and it was apparently composed by Niel Gow.

# Posted on January 13th 2012 by No Cause For Alarm

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

"it gave them a chance to get the symptoms of a couple of tunes a little faster"

Interesting choice of words, piece. What were the symptoms? Vertigo? Earache? Nausea?

# Posted on January 13th 2012 by CreadurMawnOrganig

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

"and it was apparently composed by Niel Gow"

I don't think Gow claimed it as one of his - did it not come to the Gows from a "Mr McLeod of Raasay"?

# Posted on January 13th 2012 by Weejie

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

"Jon , I should'nt have to explain this, but referring to a notion as "idiotic" doesn't constitute name calling. "

I see. My mistake.

What, then do you call it?

# Posted on January 13th 2012 by Jon Kiparsky

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

Descrption?

# Posted on January 14th 2012 by Backer

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

Then calling someone an idiot would also be description?

# Posted on January 14th 2012 by Jon Kiparsky

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

That's right, but I didn't.

# Posted on January 14th 2012 by Backer

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

So calling someone's idea "idiotic" is substantially the same as calling them "an idiot", in that they're both merely description?

# Posted on January 14th 2012 by Jon Kiparsky

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

Bleedin' Heart, go for the polkas. You may be surprised how easily that has everyone on the dance floor. Your mother can play any chords she likes. Once the wedding party is up to a high level of ecstacy it's momentum anyway. Plus the stories you'll tell the grandchildren.

# Posted on January 14th 2012 by ain't fluffed

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

Polkas! Why didn't I think of that before? I feel like such an idiot...

# Posted on January 14th 2012 by Bleedin' Heart

Re: You have 30 seconds to teach a backer some chords

To get some ideas relating chords to individual notes, you might want to visit:
www.capeirish.com/ref_lib/harmony.html
Slightly technical (and probably take more than 30 seconds to digest) but it should point you in the right direction (and won't limit you to certain tunes since the rules apply generally).

# Posted on January 15th 2012 by Zouki

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