I'm looking to upgrade my current mandolin (epiphone, need I say more?) to something slightly classier. Anyone got any suggestions of someplace to start? Bear in mind that I have no money or job so I'm sort of relying on busking funds to tide me over on this!
With no money, or next to no money, you can:
Put new strings on ( I recommend d'Addario J74s)
Get a better plectrum (I recommend Jim Dunlop Tortex - thicker and stiffer for better tone, as the ... said to the ... )
try a toneguard ( http://www.tone-gard.com/ )
But now your total expenditure is creeping up toward the cost of a mandolin upgrade ...
You don't say where you are, but your session listing suggests Cumbria. Why not go and see Fylde in Penrith and ask if you can put a deposit down on a new mandolin ...?
check out mandolincafe.com forum over there is full of very usefull informations about mandolins.
at this stage everytime when somebody is asking question like your folks are suggesting 3 brands
the loar, eastman and kentucky.
I got myself a Loar and I'm more than happy with it, especially that it wasn't very expencive.
here's what I've got http://www.theloar.com/LM-520-VS.html
but I'll bet that if you'll look into the website you'll find what you're looking for.
With regard to that Moon mandolin, the shop it was bought from is currently advertising the standard Moon with a Fishman pick-up for 679 pounds, so it sounds feasible that the seller is correct and there is one with this instrument.
Well, I've never knowingly seen an Epiphone mando, but I remember Epiphone guitars as being pretty good.
What's wrong with yours ?
I'd recommend a Red-Henry-pattern bridge as one very basic improvement - I've been making my own bridges for my bouzouki for some while, a £2 piece of maple from the wood shop, sliced down to the requisite thickness and I did the rest at home with hand and domestic power tools, or Red Henry will sell you one for $20, I believe.
A heavier brass or bronze tailpiece will also improve the tone and volume, by encouraging the string energy to go through the bridge rather than dissipate through a light tailpiece; there's a very good US company ( ? name ? ) that does them for about $75, or you can get heavy brass ones on ebay, like I did, from the Far East.
Of course, if you're looking to upgrade for prestige reasons there's really no hope for you.
The relevance is quality and quantity of sound, and ease of playing.
I suppose knowing you have the best mandolin would give you some sort of psychological fillip.
Ah yes, my old mate "Psychological Fillip". Has to analyse everything.
I must try that Red Henry bridge. I've got a marvelous improvement by just putting a tone guard on the back to keep my belly away from it. Ditto a brass tailpiece.
Another friend swears by a bone bridge.
Certainly NOT damping the back should improve the tone too. There was a guitarist in the '30s' who used a stand so the instrument was supported in the playing position, and he only touched it at neck and plucked strings.
Bone, ie a one-piece bone bridge, would probably be an improvement too. What's worst is the adjustable US pattern bridge, as used from the first Gibson F-models onwards - the absolute nadir of sound-transmission equipment. But incredibly popular. Fashion, I suppose.
Would it be worth going from the adjustable; ie twin screw bridge to a solid bridge. I've mine screwed fully down to lower the action and it's still higher than I'd like and needs a bit cut out of it to drop it further.
I'd never considred it but what is the point of the adjustable bridge? They never allow enough adjustment to get the strings too low; buzzing. Is there any reason not to swap for a solid bridge, cut to height, which should give better transmission of vibration to the soundboard?
I play one of the Moons I mentioned as advertised (good price BTW) and I'd like the action lower than it is at the lowest limit of the adjustable bridge.
I've heard that the usual acoustic guitar type bridge is the best for sound transmission. Any thoughts?
And: what's the best material for a bridge? A hard wood of course but what about bone or even aluminium or brass? I think steel would cut the strings. Again, any thoughts?
I'd recommend finding Red Henry's site, and seeing all the work he's done on refining his alternative bridge designs, including his experiments on similar designs in different woods.
Certainly I think the only reason the adjustable bridge ever took off must have been that the guys working on the first Gibson F-model took it up to the boardroom and said; "Here's how far we've got; the bridge is just to make the string height easier to adjust while we're still experimenting."; but the guys in the boardroom said "i LOVE that bridge !", so it stuck.
Having the string energy crossing from wood to brass to wood to soundboard cannot be efficient; you don't see adjustable screws on a fiddle bridge, they get it set right and leave it. The same ought to apply to a mandolin bridge. The only exception I can think of is in climates where there are extreme variations in humidity seasonally, like parts of Australia.
After a bit of digging I'd suggest that adjustable bridges allow mass produced instruments to have 'a setup' that allows manufacturing tolerances to be overcome. A tiny tolerance in the joint between the neck and the body has a big effect on the action. Fit an adjustable bridge and you can adjust out the tolerance problem.
Look at a Fender electric guitar. There's a lot of adjustment possible for both height and length. A Gibson has more height adjustment but not much for length. Looking at most acoustic guitars there is a plastic/ bone insert to move the action up or down, remove and skim off the rear face to lower.
How do you build a cheap violin? Is the action terrible on them as it's fixed position?
I think we're too accustomed to just accepting things as they are, and not thinking them through.
American (bluegrass ) mandolins are renowned for their "chop". Is that a way of describing a very fast decay time? It's not something I'd want in an instrument. When my boat comes in I want an A-model Martin mando.
Acoustic guitars are well-known for coming out of the shop with a crap action, usually both too high a 'bone' saddle in the bridge, AND a poorly cut nut.
But set-ups cost money.
Well, palethinboy, I reckon that was what I was trying to say much earlier, but thank you for repeating it directly.
People can sometimes get dissatisfied with their own instruments for many reasons - familiarity, envy of someone else's ( that's a bad one ), lack of surprise and variation in what they are playing, a misguided idea that a new instrument will cure all ills, etc.
I reckon a new set of strings and the modifications I suggested will make it sound like a new instrument.
Or, put it away for a bit and do something else, and you will come back refreshed.
Upgrading mandolin...
Upgrading mandolin...
I'm looking to upgrade my current mandolin (epiphone, need I say more?) to something slightly classier. Anyone got any suggestions of someplace to start? Bear in mind that I have no money or job so I'm sort of relying on busking funds to tide me over on this!
# Posted on December 28th 2011 by mandolinist
Re: Upgrading mandolin...
With no money, or next to no money, you can:
Put new strings on ( I recommend d'Addario J74s)
Get a better plectrum (I recommend Jim Dunlop Tortex - thicker and stiffer for better tone, as the ... said to the ... )
try a toneguard ( http://www.tone-gard.com/ )
But now your total expenditure is creeping up toward the cost of a mandolin upgrade ...
You don't say where you are, but your session listing suggests Cumbria. Why not go and see Fylde in Penrith and ask if you can put a deposit down on a new mandolin ...?
# Posted on December 28th 2011 by Bren
Re: Upgrading mandolin...
http://www.stuart.co.nz/news.asp#news2280
# Posted on December 28th 2011 by jimtowat
Re: Upgrading mandolin...
check out mandolincafe.com forum over there is full of very usefull informations about mandolins.
at this stage everytime when somebody is asking question like your folks are suggesting 3 brands
the loar, eastman and kentucky.
I got myself a Loar and I'm more than happy with it, especially that it wasn't very expencive.
here's what I've got http://www.theloar.com/LM-520-VS.html
but I'll bet that if you'll look into the website you'll find what you're looking for.
# Posted on December 28th 2011 by padre
Re: Upgrading mandolin...
Well, they lack volume, they are not really "Irish", they have an odd kind of
Oops - sorry, I thought it said "UPBRAIDING mandolin".
# Posted on December 28th 2011 by Piece
Moon on Gumtree
http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/jimmy-moon-mandolin-w-pick-up--handmade-excellent-condition/92763702
£500 possibly a bit sharp but its good value for lovely instrument (I'm not selling it; I just came across it)
I don't think there's a pick up in it as the seller suggests. They're not standard with this model.
# Posted on December 28th 2011 by raymondgallagher
Re: Upgrading mandolin...
With regard to that Moon mandolin, the shop it was bought from is currently advertising the standard Moon with a Fishman pick-up for 679 pounds, so it sounds feasible that the seller is correct and there is one with this instrument.
# Posted on December 28th 2011 by niallanderson
Re: Upgrading mandolin...
Well, I've never knowingly seen an Epiphone mando, but I remember Epiphone guitars as being pretty good.
What's wrong with yours ?
I'd recommend a Red-Henry-pattern bridge as one very basic improvement - I've been making my own bridges for my bouzouki for some while, a £2 piece of maple from the wood shop, sliced down to the requisite thickness and I did the rest at home with hand and domestic power tools, or Red Henry will sell you one for $20, I believe.
A heavier brass or bronze tailpiece will also improve the tone and volume, by encouraging the string energy to go through the bridge rather than dissipate through a light tailpiece; there's a very good US company ( ? name ? ) that does them for about $75, or you can get heavy brass ones on ebay, like I did, from the Far East.
# Posted on December 29th 2011 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Upgrading mandolin...
Of course, if you're looking to upgrade for prestige reasons there's really no hope for you.
The relevance is quality and quantity of sound, and ease of playing.
I suppose knowing you have the best mandolin would give you some sort of psychological fillip.
# Posted on December 29th 2011 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Upgrading mandolin...
Ah yes, my old mate "Psychological Fillip". Has to analyse everything.
I must try that Red Henry bridge. I've got a marvelous improvement by just putting a tone guard on the back to keep my belly away from it. Ditto a brass tailpiece.
Another friend swears by a bone bridge.
# Posted on December 29th 2011 by Bren
Re: Upgrading mandolin...
Certainly NOT damping the back should improve the tone too. There was a guitarist in the '30s' who used a stand so the instrument was supported in the playing position, and he only touched it at neck and plucked strings.
Bone, ie a one-piece bone bridge, would probably be an improvement too. What's worst is the adjustable US pattern bridge, as used from the first Gibson F-models onwards - the absolute nadir of sound-transmission equipment. But incredibly popular. Fashion, I suppose.
# Posted on December 29th 2011 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Upgrading mandolin...
Gurensey:
Would it be worth going from the adjustable; ie twin screw bridge to a solid bridge. I've mine screwed fully down to lower the action and it's still higher than I'd like and needs a bit cut out of it to drop it further.
I'd never considred it but what is the point of the adjustable bridge? They never allow enough adjustment to get the strings too low; buzzing. Is there any reason not to swap for a solid bridge, cut to height, which should give better transmission of vibration to the soundboard?
I play one of the Moons I mentioned as advertised (good price BTW) and I'd like the action lower than it is at the lowest limit of the adjustable bridge.
I've heard that the usual acoustic guitar type bridge is the best for sound transmission. Any thoughts?
# Posted on December 30th 2011 by raymondgallagher
Re: Upgrading mandolin...
And: what's the best material for a bridge? A hard wood of course but what about bone or even aluminium or brass? I think steel would cut the strings. Again, any thoughts?
# Posted on December 30th 2011 by raymondgallagher
Re: Upgrading mandolin...
I'd recommend finding Red Henry's site, and seeing all the work he's done on refining his alternative bridge designs, including his experiments on similar designs in different woods.
Certainly I think the only reason the adjustable bridge ever took off must have been that the guys working on the first Gibson F-model took it up to the boardroom and said; "Here's how far we've got; the bridge is just to make the string height easier to adjust while we're still experimenting."; but the guys in the boardroom said "i LOVE that bridge !", so it stuck.
Having the string energy crossing from wood to brass to wood to soundboard cannot be efficient; you don't see adjustable screws on a fiddle bridge, they get it set right and leave it. The same ought to apply to a mandolin bridge. The only exception I can think of is in climates where there are extreme variations in humidity seasonally, like parts of Australia.
# Posted on December 30th 2011 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Upgrading mandolin...
This is Peter Coombe's mandolin bridge page, discussing Henry, Brekke and violin bridges:
http://www.petercoombe.com/jaamim4.html
# Posted on December 30th 2011 by Bren
Bridges
After a bit of digging I'd suggest that adjustable bridges allow mass produced instruments to have 'a setup' that allows manufacturing tolerances to be overcome. A tiny tolerance in the joint between the neck and the body has a big effect on the action. Fit an adjustable bridge and you can adjust out the tolerance problem.
Look at a Fender electric guitar. There's a lot of adjustment possible for both height and length. A Gibson has more height adjustment but not much for length. Looking at most acoustic guitars there is a plastic/ bone insert to move the action up or down, remove and skim off the rear face to lower.
How do you build a cheap violin? Is the action terrible on them as it's fixed position?
Cheers GP; going to have a think on it.
# Posted on December 31st 2011 by raymondgallagher
Re: Upgrading mandolin...
I think we're too accustomed to just accepting things as they are, and not thinking them through.
American (bluegrass ) mandolins are renowned for their "chop". Is that a way of describing a very fast decay time? It's not something I'd want in an instrument. When my boat comes in I want an A-model Martin mando.
Acoustic guitars are well-known for coming out of the shop with a crap action, usually both too high a 'bone' saddle in the bridge, AND a poorly cut nut.
But set-ups cost money.
# Posted on January 3rd 2012 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Upgrading mandolin...
I think if you are limited in funds then your epiphone mando should do the trick.
was is it about it that you don't exactly like?
Unless you are will to spend in the 4 figure region i see little point in an upgrade.
# Posted on January 3rd 2012 by palethinboy
Re: Upgrading mandolin...
Well, palethinboy, I reckon that was what I was trying to say much earlier, but thank you for repeating it directly.
People can sometimes get dissatisfied with their own instruments for many reasons - familiarity, envy of someone else's ( that's a bad one ), lack of surprise and variation in what they are playing, a misguided idea that a new instrument will cure all ills, etc.
I reckon a new set of strings and the modifications I suggested will make it sound like a new instrument.
Or, put it away for a bit and do something else, and you will come back refreshed.
# Posted on January 3rd 2012 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Upgrading mandolin...
Good point about a poorly-cut nut though. Nowt worse than a poorly-cut nut.
# Posted on January 9th 2012 by Bren