When somebody gives a tuning for a stringed instrument (no matter what) it always starts with the lowest string. Even on instruments where the "lowest" string might actually be tuned higher than the highest (f.e. the 5 string banjo). Itīs a convention.
What also has become convention is when the strings are numbered they start with the "highest" (1st string = high e, etc.). Strange, I donīt know who came up with that first.
So, your "forward" variation fo the tuning is the correct one: D is the 6th string. (I will, just for fun, try out the EAEDAD tuning and see what that has to offer, Iīm curious...)
On finding chord positions:
You may have heard that a (simple major or minor) chord consists of the 1st, the 3rd, and the 5th note of the scale starting with the same letter than the chord.
If you are looking for a C major chord, start counting on C (1st). Looking for a C minor you take a C minor scale.
If youīre looking for a D chord, you start counting on D, for a G chord start on G and so on... (Itīs important to know which notes are sharp or flat in a scale. The easiest way to find out is taking a look at the key signature!)
When you have found the 1st, 3rd and 5th notes of the scale (in the case of C major you should have come up with C, E and G!) you take a look at the fingerboard of your guitar and find the easiest way to get one of these three notes on each string.
Starting on the D strings youīll find the E in the 2nd fret, on the A strings the C is found in the 3rd fret, and the E strings donīt have to be fretted at all, because they are part of the chord already. (Though you might fret one of them in the 3rd fret to get the G, which isnīt the most important note of the chord but adds colour, and when you play melodies it will definitely be needed!)
Usually the lowest note of a chord is the root (the 1st), so in this case I would ignore the 6th string (as it doesnīt offer any comfortable way to get a G or a C at the moment) and take the C on the 5th string as the bass note. All it then takes is a little organization of the fingers to find the most comfortable way of fretting the chord, and memorizing it.
Thatīs the process in as little words as possible (for me at least). Hope you can make some sense of it. If not, donīt be afraid to ask more questions.
Jorg is correct it should be DADEAE going from low to high - drop the 6th string from an E to D drop the third string from G to E and drop the second string from B to A
A few basic chords to get you started:
D modal - at the 5th fret - fingers on 5th string and 3rd string
D major - same as above except finger on 4th string 4 fret
A modal - at the 7th fret - fingers on 6th string and 4th string
another A - at the 2nd fret - 4th string
G at the second fret - 2nd string and at the 3rd fret 1st and 3rd strings
G modal at the fifth fret 6th string and 4th string
Bm - at the second fret - fingers on 5th and 3rd strings
Em - bar lowest three strings at the 2nd fret
F#m at the 4th fret - 6th and 4th strings
Try it - it is really cool, allows playing all over the neck, minimal use of the capo - easy on the hand ........... if you would like - I have some chord charts I can email in MS WORD format.... rice-st@juno.com
See the alternative tuning discussion............
Steve
Nah, no flap - it is just fine - kind of like when you tune the 6th string down to a D from an E in dropped D or DADGAD
Give it a try!
There are chord diagrams in Paul DeGrae's book Irish Rhythm Guitar - but they cover various alternate tunings - I am working with a friend in trying to write a DADEAE primer - but it is a long way from being done.
Donīt mind the dots. Spelled like that it rhymes with "jerk" or "work" anyway (as a drunken Englishman once "politely" observed when I tried to teach him how to pronounce it; never found out whether he was trying to be funny, I was too drunk myself...)
I was hoping youīd have some theory (you wrote youīve been playing for nine years, so there), and Iīm glad it kicked in. Topics like this can become very wordy -- and usually donīt any clearer -- when someone has to start from scratch...
A chord chart (like Steveīs) is a lot of help, especially in the beginning. But if you are new at that (and were one of my guitar students!) Iīd tell you to try to find a few basic positions on your own first, and then check them against the chords in his chart. (You might even come up with one or two that he hasnīt!) Youīll probably learn to play faster when you do some of the work yourself. But learning to play also means lifting from everybody whoīs better. Iīm thinking about getting in touch with him myself.
The EAEDAD tuning is fun, but not of much practical use. Of course I only spent half an hour with it, just for fun. The key of A (major and minor) seems to be the most natural, but beyond the very basics the chord positions are not very comfortable. The 3rd string being a hole step lower than the 4th offers some pretty unison effects, but thatīs about it (having to play a lower string to get a higher note can be quite disorienting!) And every other chord besides A and E requires a lot of fretting on the low strings.
All in all one of the hundreds of tunings that guitar pickers of the 60īs and 70īs came up with, that are good for one or two pieces only, and one more might be one too many because you get tired of the sound soon. (By which I donīt mean to say itīs more interesting to hear three numbers in a row played out of A minor in standard tuning, like "Donna, Donna", or six or seven reels in E minor, A part low, B part high!)
As far as DADEAE is concerned, I find myself in the same position that Brad found himself on DADGAD tuning (my favourite for the last eleven or twelve years) in the other guitar thread: I find the D-E interval as useless as he finds the G-A. The problem is that nothing I am familiar with works, and the one or two familiar positions sound so different that they throw me off the horse... Well, every tuning has its pros and contras, easy moves and difficult ones. In the end it depends on whether you can play what you want to, no matter in what tuning. A D major chord always consists of the same three notes.
The difference is that in DADGAD I am able to play music. I know what a D chord will sound like at (trying to be honest) many positions, and what I have to do to get an A or an F sharp as a bass or top note. And I can play a lot of tunes (though not as many as on the fiddle). In DADEAE I would have to spent a lot of time thinking about where to get a note, and think in terms of chord positions rather than sounds in my head. For the music it is better to spent that time thinking about how to play a note, not where!
For Steve it would probably be the other way round. And if he has tried both tunings at length, and then decided to stick to one, there might be a reason for that. (And who am I to tell him heīs wrong, with all the work heīs put into it?)
Steve, donīt misunderstand me, I am not saying I donīt like the sound of it, or its possibilities. Only I felt like a beginner for the first ten of fifteen minutes when trying it out, and I hate that feeling. Maybe itīs just that I am not used to it anymore, perhaps learning a new instrument ( flute?) would help me cope with it (Though this computer still causes a lot of head-scratching here, too!)
And all the other plus points you mentioned (playing all over the neck and minimal use of capo at least) are -- for me -- also true of DADGAD. (Though Itīs not always easy on the hand and I wouldnīt call it cool...)
Anyway, for the session tonight I will definitely tune back to DADGAD.
But donīt count me out and please, put me on the list of the people waiting for the book (when the list is long enough it might actually give you the necessary push to start working on it - itīs happened before!) and you might still win a convert...
And: No, it didnīt go floppy, Glauber. Though it might with Xtra light strings... I use medium strings and even tuning it down to D didnīt make that much of a difference. It feels a bit funny though...
Nice to hear someone actually tried DADEAE tuning - I am in the same boat with DADGAD having read of its virtues, I tried it on my own and felt like I could not control it. It was only after spending about 6 hrs with John Brennan of Philadelphia and watching him use DADEAE that I decided I wanted to really put the effort into learning this tuning. You may read about John at the following web site: http://www.philadelphiaceiligroup.org/festival/johnbrennan.html
It took me a long time to feel comfortable with the tuning, and I must admit that I play rhythm - backup almost exclusively, and I have to relearn the notes on the fretboard in order to play melody. Thus my interest in a discussion entitled "Tabledit" - I use that software........
Danny Flynn (the accordion player mentioned by John Brennan) is my cohort in crime in trying to get out an instruction book on DADEAE.
We are working on chord and run structures that can be implemented in ABC. I will let you know when we get a more substantial document and will let you guys try it out and criticize.
You both have been very helpful to this new cause.
Last night I tuned my (not so used guitar that I bought for my kids) to DADEAE. It was great. I even figured out a few chords (this was before I got your email Steve) You'd be proud Jorg.
The chords were D,G,C,A,E, ( I O U and sometimes Y ) I could not resist.
My first stringed instrument was a mountain dulcimer. This tuning puts me in mind of the DAD mixiolodian tuning of the MD. I even actually played a couple beginner dulcimer tunes on it. " Bile 'Em Cabbage" and "The Boatmen Song" I should fit right in with the dulcimer club meetings.
The chords you sent me were very helpful Steve. I even found a few other positions not on your chord chart.
With my basic music theory and a chord book I plan on making a chord chart up for this new tuning. Of course I could be going about this all wrong. Should I not focus on too much of finding a complete chord and keep it simple? If by focosing on the complete chord I ruin the whole intent of this tuning and the sound that it provides?
I am not ready to change my martin over this tuning. I use it too much in church services.
My concern is will I get confused changing back and forth. I have a friend who plays banjo, mandolin and guitar and sometimes she goofs up on a chord or two. Keeps ya on your toes Eh?
It looks like I have found a good reason to buy another guitar.
The one I have tuned to the DADEAE is ....Well... a student guitar.
And now that I have been playing around with this guitar my kids are showing an interest in playing again..(about time!)
And.....Well....I need to get a fret job on my Martin. What the Hay! Go for it!
Thanks again
ps. if this turns out to be a repeat I am sorry. I tried to reply once before and lost everything that I wrote. DARN! I hate it when that happens!
Iīm still an abc2win newbie (I didnīt know one can import notation in there f. e.), but what happens with this program is
when you type 4/4 or C or into the M:field, the setting of the default note length in the L:field switches to 1/4 automatically (drives me crazy every time I want to enter a reel...).
You have to change that (manually, so to speak) to 1/8, and if you forget, you get a string of quarter notes instead of the intended eighths (donīt know the American terms, crotchets and quavers and what you use...). Maybe abc2win doesnīt recognize the intended default note length. Check this first and see if it looks better afterwards.
Maybe youīre lucky and thatīs all thereīs wrong. If it isnīt that then somebody with more expertise has to jump in. (Help!)
Learning a new tuning is always confusing at first (thatīs why Iīm reluctant to start honest work on DADEAE!), but itīll soon get better. And goofing on a chord or two does -- in my experience -- not only happen to people who play more than one instrument. In short: it will never get any better if you donīt play it (I tell that myself, too)!
"Should I not focus on too much of finding a complete chord and keep it simple? If by focosing on the complete chord I ruin the
whole intent of this tuning and the sound that it provides?"
Yes... AND no! Sometimes you will want the sound of all six strings and youīd like to hear a straight major or minor chord without any of the notes that donīt belong to it, but can add so much colour and interest. In a situation like that itīs good to know the full chord position.
On the other hand, whatīs the use of spending all the time with a new tuning, when the chord changes in the end sound like in standard tuning, and only the fingering is harder? I think exploration would be the right term. Try to find sounds you like, and try to play them again.
At one point I started thinking in terms of registers, like on a keyboard: you can play a chord on the top three strings, sometimes even leaving one or two strings open, and add the 4th string for a (high) bass note --
or you play the chord on the lower three or four strings, either ignoring the high strings or adding them for colour.
One of the great things about these DAD... tunings is that youīll find the bass notes on both D strings in the same fret! It makes work a lot easier. All you have to do then is shape the rest of the chord on top of the bass. This way you can play back up high for the first verse (or the 1st time around of a dance tune) and switch to the low strings on the second, and add a little boom... Itīs fun!
As far as tuning and re-tuning goes: if you play light or extra light strings frequent switches between the tunings will probably enlarge the risks of string breaks (and usually they break in the most inconvenient moment). Well, I play medium and so far I have been lucky. Changing the tuning once a week shouldnīt do any harm (keep spare strings in the case at all times, though).
I hope you donīt belong to those people (I know too many of them!) that can tune their guitars only with the help of these electronic tuners. Then of course itīs a nuisance to switch from one tuning to the next in a hurry...
It would be easier to have a few guitars all ready tuned and ready to play if we could afford it. That would stop my fear of re-tuning back up and having the string snap in my face. It just did with a guitar I bought for my daughter yesterday just bringing it back up into tune. So I think I am going to have to get a move on and try these alternate tunings before she comes back next weekend to take it back to university with her. Mind you I've just bought 2 extra sets of strings (1 each) just in case.
As far as electronic tuners goe, I think they are great. I wouldn't be without mine. The funny thing is that I do rely on it for tuning, but I am actually only using it when I know it's gone out of tune. If that makes sense. So my ear must be improving as I can't stand it when any instrument I am playing is not bang on. Another use is for beginners starting out playing with the tuner switched on. It gets you used to the actual note being right and not just nearly right. How else would anyone know if they didn't know what a certain note sounded like anyway.
So long live electronic tuners.
Sharron
Yes, I use a tuner. ( I hope I have not lost your respect Jorg)
I also use light guage string on my guitar.
However I do value the gift of tuning by ear. If the piano's out , one has no other choice but to tune to the piano. It's good practice and one can develope an ear for it. When I am having off days....I use a tuner.
I have heard that not all tuners tune the same. That everyone in the group should tune to the same tuner or tune to the instument that tuned to that tuner first.... Have I done that? No. If we are still off...we adjust to each other.
I have not even attempted to try to figure out how to notate music in ABC format. It's like a new language to me. I have two other music programs that I still need to figure out. Musedit, which provided me with a book to read from and Tabledit, which provide you with a turoral. I wish it came with a book!
I learn best from trial and error. When get totally frustrated then I go to HELP.
One can spend a whole life time in front of this screen. Get one tremendous headache and still feel you have not figured it out.
I would much rather be practicing my guitar and whistle
When you find out how to work these programs let me know. As simply as possible. As soon as I see the length of the instructions and links in the instructions, I quit out. No staying power that's me.
ttfn
Sharron
No need to worry about losing respect. I use one myself. But usually I use it to give me a correct A, and I go on from there by ear. A tuner is quite handy in a band, because I donīt have to wait for somebody else finish tuning. I just take the A and go on from there, and only afterwards check with the rest of the band if we ended up on the same spot. Stringed instruments over the years things get damaged, worn-out frets, little hollows dug into the fretboard at some places, things like that. When you f. e. play a string at a fret that has a hollow, you pull it out of tune, because you put more pressure on the string than the maker of the instrument intended.
The result is that I have to fine tune one or two strings whenever I put a capo on and off. Since I know my guitar quite well, I know what strings tend to go off. A tuner gives you the correct note for the open string, but it doesnīt know what happens to the string when you fret it. Try, just for fun, putting a capo in the 3rd or 4th fret, and see if the strings sound like what they are supposed to... I bet they donīt... In most cases they go a little sharp. There are adjustable capos and they are of some help, but only so far. In the end your ear still will have to do the job...
The reason for being able to tune by ear is simple: when you can do it, itīs faster. And in a session or rehearsal situation you can also use the help of another musician. When I put the capo in the 5th fret to play in G (in DADGAD), I ask somebody else to play a few notes and adjust the usual suspects to that. In most cases itīs good enough for folkmusic... (*grin*)
What I hate are people that canīt tune their instruments without one. They come to a session, sit down, get their things out of the case, switch the tuner on, and I know I can go out for AT LEAST two or three minutes, get a refill or make room for more beer, roll a cigarette, whatever. And after all this procedure they fret a C Major and still it doesnīt sound right! They think they are tuning a string, but actually they are trying to make to a LED blip stop at the right spot. Itīs not exactly the same.
The funny thing about the guitar is: when one string is off, all the others sound wrong, too. Thatīs exactly what makes tuning by ear so hard. Well, that, and the disability of many players to hit single strings other than when they tune. They play chords all the time and itīs of course very difficult to hear which string needs fine tuning then... So go ahead using a tuner, if you can tune by ear they make life easier. For everybody I know who canīt, they arenīt much of a help. They should actually leave them alone for a year or so, that would be better for training their ears...
Tabledit
Tabledit
This could be a very stupid question. Please be patient.
I recall some one mentioning about using Tabledit for alternate tunings for guitar.
I have been playing guitar for only 9 years now... so I am an extreme newbie to fingerstyles and alternate tunings.
I am interested in the DADEAE tuning. When changing the guitar tuning on the tabledit from standard guitar tuning should it go like this?
6th string-D, 5th string-A, 4th string-D, 3rd string-E, 2nd-A and 1st-E?
I have played around with it on the tabledit program both ways with the E being the 6th string and then going backwards. Which is the correct way?
What I like about tabledit is the fact that you can import abc formats to it and then create tabs from it.
Next thing I need to do is figure out the chords for this tuning.
I plan on checking out the books mentioned in the other threads.
Is there some place online I could get the chords for DADEAE tuning?
Laura
# Posted on January 15th 2002 by hillfolk
Re: Tabledit
Hi, Laura
When somebody gives a tuning for a stringed instrument (no matter what) it always starts with the lowest string. Even on instruments where the "lowest" string might actually be tuned higher than the highest (f.e. the 5 string banjo). Itīs a convention.
What also has become convention is when the strings are numbered they start with the "highest" (1st string = high e, etc.). Strange, I donīt know who came up with that first.
So, your "forward" variation fo the tuning is the correct one: D is the 6th string. (I will, just for fun, try out the EAEDAD tuning and see what that has to offer, Iīm curious...)
On finding chord positions:
You may have heard that a (simple major or minor) chord consists of the 1st, the 3rd, and the 5th note of the scale starting with the same letter than the chord.
If you are looking for a C major chord, start counting on C (1st). Looking for a C minor you take a C minor scale.
If youīre looking for a D chord, you start counting on D, for a G chord start on G and so on... (Itīs important to know which notes are sharp or flat in a scale. The easiest way to find out is taking a look at the key signature!)
When you have found the 1st, 3rd and 5th notes of the scale (in the case of C major you should have come up with C, E and G!) you take a look at the fingerboard of your guitar and find the easiest way to get one of these three notes on each string.
Starting on the D strings youīll find the E in the 2nd fret, on the A strings the C is found in the 3rd fret, and the E strings donīt have to be fretted at all, because they are part of the chord already. (Though you might fret one of them in the 3rd fret to get the G, which isnīt the most important note of the chord but adds colour, and when you play melodies it will definitely be needed!)
Usually the lowest note of a chord is the root (the 1st), so in this case I would ignore the 6th string (as it doesnīt offer any comfortable way to get a G or a C at the moment) and take the C on the 5th string as the bass note. All it then takes is a little organization of the fingers to find the most comfortable way of fretting the chord, and memorizing it.
Thatīs the process in as little words as possible (for me at least). Hope you can make some sense of it. If not, donīt be afraid to ask more questions.
Hope this helps,
Jörg
# Posted on January 15th 2002 by Joerg Froese
Re: Tabledit
Laura,
Jorg is correct it should be DADEAE going from low to high - drop the 6th string from an E to D drop the third string from G to E and drop the second string from B to A
A few basic chords to get you started:
D modal - at the 5th fret - fingers on 5th string and 3rd string
D major - same as above except finger on 4th string 4 fret
A modal - at the 7th fret - fingers on 6th string and 4th string
another A - at the 2nd fret - 4th string
G at the second fret - 2nd string and at the 3rd fret 1st and 3rd strings
G modal at the fifth fret 6th string and 4th string
Bm - at the second fret - fingers on 5th and 3rd strings
Em - bar lowest three strings at the 2nd fret
F#m at the 4th fret - 6th and 4th strings
Try it - it is really cool, allows playing all over the neck, minimal use of the capo - easy on the hand ........... if you would like - I have some chord charts I can email in MS WORD format.... rice-st@juno.com
See the alternative tuning discussion............
Steve
# Posted on January 15th 2002 by Rice-st
3rd string
Won't the 3rd string go all floppy when it drops from G to E?
# Posted on January 15th 2002 by glauber
Re: Tabledit
Nah, no flap - it is just fine - kind of like when you tune the 6th string down to a D from an E in dropped D or DADGAD
Give it a try!
There are chord diagrams in Paul DeGrae's book Irish Rhythm Guitar - but they cover various alternate tunings - I am working with a friend in trying to write a DADEAE primer - but it is a long way from being done.
Steve
# Posted on January 15th 2002 by Rice-st
Re: Tabledit
THANKS
Jorg (sorry I can't find the little dots to go over the o )
It took me a couple of readings to figure out what you were writing, then the old music theory kicked in. Yes it makes a lot of sence.
Just need to make sure I count the frets right...in keeping with the half steps.
Although...., Steve's offer about the chord charts sounds tempting.
It will make the transition much easier.
Yeh, I know taking the easy way out. At least for now.
I sent you an email Steve.
Will you need to let us know when you get the DADEAE book done.
Jorg, did you try out the other tuning EAEDAD? How did it work out for you?
Laura
# Posted on January 15th 2002 by hillfolk
Re: EAEDAD
Hi Laura
Donīt mind the dots. Spelled like that it rhymes with "jerk" or "work" anyway (as a drunken Englishman once "politely" observed when I tried to teach him how to pronounce it; never found out whether he was trying to be funny, I was too drunk myself...)
I was hoping youīd have some theory (you wrote youīve been playing for nine years, so there), and Iīm glad it kicked in. Topics like this can become very wordy -- and usually donīt any clearer -- when someone has to start from scratch...
A chord chart (like Steveīs) is a lot of help, especially in the beginning. But if you are new at that (and were one of my guitar students!) Iīd tell you to try to find a few basic positions on your own first, and then check them against the chords in his chart. (You might even come up with one or two that he hasnīt!) Youīll probably learn to play faster when you do some of the work yourself. But learning to play also means lifting from everybody whoīs better. Iīm thinking about getting in touch with him myself.
The EAEDAD tuning is fun, but not of much practical use. Of course I only spent half an hour with it, just for fun. The key of A (major and minor) seems to be the most natural, but beyond the very basics the chord positions are not very comfortable. The 3rd string being a hole step lower than the 4th offers some pretty unison effects, but thatīs about it (having to play a lower string to get a higher note can be quite disorienting!) And every other chord besides A and E requires a lot of fretting on the low strings.
All in all one of the hundreds of tunings that guitar pickers of the 60īs and 70īs came up with, that are good for one or two pieces only, and one more might be one too many because you get tired of the sound soon. (By which I donīt mean to say itīs more interesting to hear three numbers in a row played out of A minor in standard tuning, like "Donna, Donna", or six or seven reels in E minor, A part low, B part high!)
As far as DADEAE is concerned, I find myself in the same position that Brad found himself on DADGAD tuning (my favourite for the last eleven or twelve years) in the other guitar thread: I find the D-E interval as useless as he finds the G-A. The problem is that nothing I am familiar with works, and the one or two familiar positions sound so different that they throw me off the horse... Well, every tuning has its pros and contras, easy moves and difficult ones. In the end it depends on whether you can play what you want to, no matter in what tuning. A D major chord always consists of the same three notes.
The difference is that in DADGAD I am able to play music. I know what a D chord will sound like at (trying to be honest) many positions, and what I have to do to get an A or an F sharp as a bass or top note. And I can play a lot of tunes (though not as many as on the fiddle). In DADEAE I would have to spent a lot of time thinking about where to get a note, and think in terms of chord positions rather than sounds in my head. For the music it is better to spent that time thinking about how to play a note, not where!
For Steve it would probably be the other way round. And if he has tried both tunings at length, and then decided to stick to one, there might be a reason for that. (And who am I to tell him heīs wrong, with all the work heīs put into it?)
Steve, donīt misunderstand me, I am not saying I donīt like the sound of it, or its possibilities. Only I felt like a beginner for the first ten of fifteen minutes when trying it out, and I hate that feeling. Maybe itīs just that I am not used to it anymore, perhaps learning a new instrument ( flute?) would help me cope with it (Though this computer still causes a lot of head-scratching here, too!)
And all the other plus points you mentioned (playing all over the neck and minimal use of capo at least) are -- for me -- also true of DADGAD. (Though Itīs not always easy on the hand and I wouldnīt call it cool...)
Anyway, for the session tonight I will definitely tune back to DADGAD.
But donīt count me out and please, put me on the list of the people waiting for the book (when the list is long enough it might actually give you the necessary push to start working on it - itīs happened before!) and you might still win a convert...
And: No, it didnīt go floppy, Glauber. Though it might with Xtra light strings... I use medium strings and even tuning it down to D didnīt make that much of a difference. It feels a bit funny though...
Much success, Laura,
Jörg
# Posted on January 16th 2002 by Joerg Froese
Re: Tabledit
Jorg ,
Nice to hear someone actually tried DADEAE tuning - I am in the same boat with DADGAD having read of its virtues, I tried it on my own and felt like I could not control it. It was only after spending about 6 hrs with John Brennan of Philadelphia and watching him use DADEAE that I decided I wanted to really put the effort into learning this tuning. You may read about John at the following web site: http://www.philadelphiaceiligroup.org/festival/johnbrennan.html
It took me a long time to feel comfortable with the tuning, and I must admit that I play rhythm - backup almost exclusively, and I have to relearn the notes on the fretboard in order to play melody. Thus my interest in a discussion entitled "Tabledit" - I use that software........
Danny Flynn (the accordion player mentioned by John Brennan) is my cohort in crime in trying to get out an instruction book on DADEAE.
We are working on chord and run structures that can be implemented in ABC. I will let you know when we get a more substantial document and will let you guys try it out and criticize.
Take Care,
Steve
# Posted on January 16th 2002 by Rice-st
Re: Tabledit
Steve and Jorg,
You both have been very helpful to this new cause.
Last night I tuned my (not so used guitar that I bought for my kids) to DADEAE. It was great. I even figured out a few chords (this was before I got your email Steve) You'd be proud Jorg.
The chords were D,G,C,A,E, ( I O U and sometimes Y ) I could not resist.
My first stringed instrument was a mountain dulcimer. This tuning puts me in mind of the DAD mixiolodian tuning of the MD. I even actually played a couple beginner dulcimer tunes on it. " Bile 'Em Cabbage" and "The Boatmen Song" I should fit right in with the dulcimer club meetings.
The chords you sent me were very helpful Steve. I even found a few other positions not on your chord chart.
With my basic music theory and a chord book I plan on making a chord chart up for this new tuning. Of course I could be going about this all wrong. Should I not focus on too much of finding a complete chord and keep it simple? If by focosing on the complete chord I ruin the whole intent of this tuning and the sound that it provides?
I am not ready to change my martin over this tuning. I use it too much in church services.
My concern is will I get confused changing back and forth. I have a friend who plays banjo, mandolin and guitar and sometimes she goofs up on a chord or two. Keeps ya on your toes Eh?
It looks like I have found a good reason to buy another guitar.
The one I have tuned to the DADEAE is ....Well... a student guitar.
And now that I have been playing around with this guitar my kids are showing an interest in playing again..(about time!)
And.....Well....I need to get a fret job on my Martin. What the Hay! Go for it!
Thanks again
ps. if this turns out to be a repeat I am sorry. I tried to reply once before and lost everything that I wrote. DARN! I hate it when that happens!
Laura
# Posted on January 16th 2002 by hillfolk
For those who use tabledit
I am having problems exporting notation over to abc2win program.
When I open it back up on the abc2win program the notation is all messed up.
The tune I was working on is in basic 4/4 time with quarter notes and eighth notes. The exported tune has dotted 1/4 notes and 1/8th notes.
Has any one else experienced this problem exporting tunes over?
# Posted on January 16th 2002 by hillfolk
Re: Tabledit
Hi Laura,
Iīm still an abc2win newbie (I didnīt know one can import notation in there f. e.), but what happens with this program is
when you type 4/4 or C or into the M:field, the setting of the default note length in the L:field switches to 1/4 automatically (drives me crazy every time I want to enter a reel...).
You have to change that (manually, so to speak) to 1/8, and if you forget, you get a string of quarter notes instead of the intended eighths (donīt know the American terms, crotchets and quavers and what you use...). Maybe abc2win doesnīt recognize the intended default note length. Check this first and see if it looks better afterwards.
Maybe youīre lucky and thatīs all thereīs wrong. If it isnīt that then somebody with more expertise has to jump in. (Help!)
Learning a new tuning is always confusing at first (thatīs why Iīm reluctant to start honest work on DADEAE!), but itīll soon get better. And goofing on a chord or two does -- in my experience -- not only happen to people who play more than one instrument. In short: it will never get any better if you donīt play it (I tell that myself, too)!
"Should I not focus on too much of finding a complete chord and keep it simple? If by focosing on the complete chord I ruin the
whole intent of this tuning and the sound that it provides?"
Yes... AND no! Sometimes you will want the sound of all six strings and youīd like to hear a straight major or minor chord without any of the notes that donīt belong to it, but can add so much colour and interest. In a situation like that itīs good to know the full chord position.
On the other hand, whatīs the use of spending all the time with a new tuning, when the chord changes in the end sound like in standard tuning, and only the fingering is harder? I think exploration would be the right term. Try to find sounds you like, and try to play them again.
At one point I started thinking in terms of registers, like on a keyboard: you can play a chord on the top three strings, sometimes even leaving one or two strings open, and add the 4th string for a (high) bass note --
or you play the chord on the lower three or four strings, either ignoring the high strings or adding them for colour.
One of the great things about these DAD... tunings is that youīll find the bass notes on both D strings in the same fret! It makes work a lot easier. All you have to do then is shape the rest of the chord on top of the bass. This way you can play back up high for the first verse (or the 1st time around of a dance tune) and switch to the low strings on the second, and add a little boom... Itīs fun!
As far as tuning and re-tuning goes: if you play light or extra light strings frequent switches between the tunings will probably enlarge the risks of string breaks (and usually they break in the most inconvenient moment). Well, I play medium and so far I have been lucky. Changing the tuning once a week shouldnīt do any harm (keep spare strings in the case at all times, though).
I hope you donīt belong to those people (I know too many of them!) that can tune their guitars only with the help of these electronic tuners. Then of course itīs a nuisance to switch from one tuning to the next in a hurry...
Good luck,
Jörg
P.S.: I am proud of you, Laura!
# Posted on January 17th 2002 by Joerg Froese
Re: Tabledit
It would be easier to have a few guitars all ready tuned and ready to play if we could afford it. That would stop my fear of re-tuning back up and having the string snap in my face. It just did with a guitar I bought for my daughter yesterday just bringing it back up into tune. So I think I am going to have to get a move on and try these alternate tunings before she comes back next weekend to take it back to university with her. Mind you I've just bought 2 extra sets of strings (1 each) just in case.
As far as electronic tuners goe, I think they are great. I wouldn't be without mine. The funny thing is that I do rely on it for tuning, but I am actually only using it when I know it's gone out of tune. If that makes sense. So my ear must be improving as I can't stand it when any instrument I am playing is not bang on. Another use is for beginners starting out playing with the tuner switched on. It gets you used to the actual note being right and not just nearly right. How else would anyone know if they didn't know what a certain note sounded like anyway.
So long live electronic tuners.
Sharron
# Posted on January 19th 2002 by
Re: Tabledit
Yes, I use a tuner. ( I hope I have not lost your respect Jorg)
I also use light guage string on my guitar.
However I do value the gift of tuning by ear. If the piano's out , one has no other choice but to tune to the piano. It's good practice and one can develope an ear for it. When I am having off days....I use a tuner.
I have heard that not all tuners tune the same. That everyone in the group should tune to the same tuner or tune to the instument that tuned to that tuner first.... Have I done that? No. If we are still off...we adjust to each other.
I have not even attempted to try to figure out how to notate music in ABC format. It's like a new language to me. I have two other music programs that I still need to figure out. Musedit, which provided me with a book to read from and Tabledit, which provide you with a turoral. I wish it came with a book!
I learn best from trial and error. When get totally frustrated then I go to HELP.
One can spend a whole life time in front of this screen. Get one tremendous headache and still feel you have not figured it out.
I would much rather be practicing my guitar and whistle
Laura
# Posted on January 19th 2002 by hillfolk
Re: Tabledit
When you find out how to work these programs let me know. As simply as possible. As soon as I see the length of the instructions and links in the instructions, I quit out. No staying power that's me.
ttfn
Sharron
# Posted on January 19th 2002 by
Re: Tabledit
Hi Sharron & Laura!
No need to worry about losing respect. I use one myself. But usually I use it to give me a correct A, and I go on from there by ear. A tuner is quite handy in a band, because I donīt have to wait for somebody else finish tuning. I just take the A and go on from there, and only afterwards check with the rest of the band if we ended up on the same spot. Stringed instruments over the years things get damaged, worn-out frets, little hollows dug into the fretboard at some places, things like that. When you f. e. play a string at a fret that has a hollow, you pull it out of tune, because you put more pressure on the string than the maker of the instrument intended.
The result is that I have to fine tune one or two strings whenever I put a capo on and off. Since I know my guitar quite well, I know what strings tend to go off. A tuner gives you the correct note for the open string, but it doesnīt know what happens to the string when you fret it. Try, just for fun, putting a capo in the 3rd or 4th fret, and see if the strings sound like what they are supposed to... I bet they donīt... In most cases they go a little sharp. There are adjustable capos and they are of some help, but only so far. In the end your ear still will have to do the job...
The reason for being able to tune by ear is simple: when you can do it, itīs faster. And in a session or rehearsal situation you can also use the help of another musician. When I put the capo in the 5th fret to play in G (in DADGAD), I ask somebody else to play a few notes and adjust the usual suspects to that. In most cases itīs good enough for folkmusic... (*grin*)
What I hate are people that canīt tune their instruments without one. They come to a session, sit down, get their things out of the case, switch the tuner on, and I know I can go out for AT LEAST two or three minutes, get a refill or make room for more beer, roll a cigarette, whatever. And after all this procedure they fret a C Major and still it doesnīt sound right! They think they are tuning a string, but actually they are trying to make to a LED blip stop at the right spot. Itīs not exactly the same.
The funny thing about the guitar is: when one string is off, all the others sound wrong, too. Thatīs exactly what makes tuning by ear so hard. Well, that, and the disability of many players to hit single strings other than when they tune. They play chords all the time and itīs of course very difficult to hear which string needs fine tuning then... So go ahead using a tuner, if you can tune by ear they make life easier. For everybody I know who canīt, they arenīt much of a help. They should actually leave them alone for a year or so, that would be better for training their ears...
Happy weekend,
Jörg
# Posted on January 19th 2002 by Joerg Froese