Hi everyone,
I have a little issue and would be gratefull if someone could shed some light on it,
I'm looking to buy a musical instrument from a potential private seller online,
he is from a different country so I cant really arrange to view it. I kind of have to take a chance that its in good nick. The arrangement he wants is for me to pay him by bank draught and when it clears he will send the item. I have never dealt like this before and for some reason I dont feel comfortable about it. Has anyone else ever dealt like this before and how did it turn out? My fear is the cheque clears he keeps the money and im left with no money or musical instrument!! Do I have any comeback at all with a bank draught or how do they work?
Thanks
You have a one in two chance of being ripped off, or at least, being unhappy with little recourse. The only way I would do this is to have my payment held in escrow by a mutually agreed-upon third party who would release the payment when both sides are satisfied.
You might find out if he knows other musicians that you might have heard of. Ask for references he might be able to provide from makers or dealers. You can work through an escrow agency, though that would cost something. You might know somebody in common - six degrees of separation. Does he regularly post to an internet list? That would provide a feedback mechanism that could offer some protection.
But basically it comes down to trust. I have never been scammed like this. I would go with your gut feeling and go forward if everything seems on the up and up and the reward justifies the risk.
This is silly: "You have a one in two chance of being ripped off, or at least, being unhappy with little recourse." Where dies this % figure come from? Certainly it is not the case that half the people buying on the net get ripped off.
I have been ripped off like this just once, in over fifteen years of dealing on the net, both buying and selling - and that was a clever ebay scam.
If you try to get to know the seller you might find that your fears are allayed, or, on the other hand, justified. You don't have to walk into the transaction coldly. Ask questions about the person selling the instrument: where he works, what he does for a living, his age. For instance, if he works for the Post or some other government agency you are probably very safe.
I have said to him that I would like to view the item at my own expenses which would mean me travelling from Ireland to the UK but he says he's to busy in work and the only way he will deal is for me to pay by bank draught and as soon as it clears he will ship the item! I have an email confirming from him he will give me a thirty day money back guarantee with the item. I dont know but it sounds a little bit fishy for some strange reason.
Mmm....The seller is obviously cautious in waiting for a banker's draft to clear. The seller should appreciate your caution too. If the seller isn't willing to meet you in person, then I would say it probably isn't worth pursuing.
I believe you are both protected if you do it through PayPal. He requests a payment through PayPal and you pay him. He's guaranteed his money and if you do not get the item PayPal will compensate you and go after him... I think
sounds like a scam - if the guy is serious and wants to be paid for his instrument use paypal - you can offer to pay the paypal fees if that's an issue -
I have purchased using paypal, not received item and have been refunded the $ after reporting the rip off to paypal.
This is standard:
"... the only way he will deal is for me to pay by bank draught and as soon as it clears he will ship the item." Nothing wrong with that. But a thirty-day guarantee sounds far too long to be real. It sounds like a come-on. I don't trust that. Most sellers only offer a seven-day trial period.
"...you are both protected if you do it through PayPal..."
Only if there is sufficient money in the seller's Paypal account to cover the amount of the refund. If the seller had no money in his account -- ie, opened it for the purpose of scamming -- then you are screwed.
I agree-- walk away. If it sounds too good to be true it probably is too good to be true.
" I have said to him that I would like to view the item at my own expenses which would mean me travelling from Ireland to the UK but he says he's to busy in work"
Where does he work..China??
You have to ask yourself how would you go about selling an instrument....Me...i'd go to any length to help a potential purchaser, and I would prefer that the purchaser try out the instrument if possible. I'd give this one a wide berth!
As a point of interest what was/is the instrument for sale?
Sellers can get frightened too. So the request for payment before shipping seems reasonable to me. However, I think the refusal to meet with you under any circumstances, if that's what he's saying, is dodgy to say the least. If I was selling something and someone offered to come and see me and buy it person, with cash at the ready, I'd be pleased as punch.
Do NOT do this. You will never see that instrument or your money again. If you are willing to travel from Ireland to the UK & he won't meet you then feck Him!
You could offer the transfer the money into his account so you knew where it had gone. I suppose he could have set one up specially for a scam but with all the palaver of setting up an EU bank account due to anti money laundering regulations it would be a big effort just for price of an instrument you would buy unseen.
Shifty, dodgy, evasive - as said a couple of times already here - walk away... The minute you said they would only accept a bankers' draft was enough to start distrust, then he didn't have the time to let you see the instrument - that's an immediate klaxon's worth of warning...
However, also tell us more, what instrument and where did you stumble across this sale? 'Online' is a vast place, and there be sharks...
You haven't said whether it's through Ebay or some possibly dodgy site. If it's Ebay with pre-payment through PayPal, then you've nothing to worry about, as others have pointed out.
I've paid for an instrument in the past by credit transfer, it was in Scandanavia and it all worked out fine but I did check the seller's online history to see what their line of opinions was previously. I've also sold an instrument by bank draft but again was able to establish trust by showing my history, business site etc.
So don't necessarily rule it out, but do check their online history carefully. The fact that they won't meet if you travel over sounds bad, though. Check again.
>>I would like to view the item ... but he says he's to busy in work and the only way he will deal is for me to pay by bank draught <<
Two definite danger signals there. I advise you to walk away from this one if he won't budge on those conditions. The obvious reason that a 'seller' won't let a buyer see something is that the something does not exist.
Go with your gut instinct. When in doubt, there is no doubt
(pardon the cliche'). Seriously, if the situation fills you with doubts and stress, leave it. And i agree with DaveL35 regarding his conditiosn, especially if the seller is inflexible about them. Why deal with someone unpleasant anyway?
I came across this standard scam when searching for a puppy online. There is a website which charges sellers a nominal fee to allow them to use the site, and they offer suggestions to help protect buyers. One was "ask the seller to send a new photo, with your name and the date on a piece of paper (in the photo.)
Those who do not have the puppy/instrument in their possession cannot comply, of course.
I discovered that two or three obviously linked "sellers" were offering dogs, from several countries, for a fraction of the going price, and asking for a deposit to start the transaction. When I pointed this out to the website manager, she immediately cancelled the spurious accounts.
Trying to deal with this kind of thing on your own would be very risky, but the first thing to do, as someone mentioned above, is to get verifiable identification and references.
Thanks for all of the replies its a dodgy situation alright and i think it would be best off if I let this one go. I sent him one more email stating I wont be buying unless I see the item in person, it will be interesting to hear the reply! Ill update when I hear.
It's very hard to be patient when you have your heart set on a new instrument but I think in this case it would be wise to let it go and start your search again. Besides, you might not even like the sound, tone or even the feel of that instrument so it's always best to 'try before you buy'!
[I have said to him that I would like to view the item at my own expenses which would mean me travelling from Ireland to the UK but he says he's to busy in work and the only way he will deal is for me to pay by bank draught and as soon as it clears he will ship the item!]
this is nonsense, absolute nonsense. if this quote-unquote seller will not let you view the item at your expense [or arrange to leave it with a known tech of that type of instrument in the UK who can check it and vet it for you for a fee, and communicate the results to you], you know everything you need to know, namely, this is NOT a person you wish to deal with.
"One was "ask the seller to send a new photo, with your name and the date on a piece of paper (in the photo.)
Those who do not have the puppy/instrument in their possession cannot comply, of course."
Unless they are good with photoshop!
Is this instrument something really special (you are willing to travel from Ireland to see it)
Is the price below average?
If something seems to good to be true it probably is. Like the mandolin on Craig's list that my partner was interested in.. We said we would travel to London to see it. We never heard from the seller again.
"I have never dealt like this before and for some reason I dont feel comfortable about it." Go with ytour gut instinct, it's all you've got.
If the seller is in the UK it's unlikely that it is a total scam, you probably would recieve an instrument for your money (unlike buying that way out of Germany or E. Europe). But the instrument is very likely to be a dud.
One of the key sklills in this game is reading what it doesn't say in the listing, rather than what it does - if it doesn't specifically say the neck is straight, you assume it is warped. If it doesn't say there are no cracks, you assume the side he hasn't photographed is split to pieces.
Buying blind is fine for dealers who can afford to take a punt - a dud instrument now and again just means a bit less profit. But if you've saved up your cash to buy an instrument for yourself, you'll almost certainly be disappointed with what you get buying blind from a private listing or auction.
Okay --- so, in the final analysis:
(1) You cannot go and see this amazing bargain, and (2) you have to pay up front, pure blind faith, no safeguard for your investment, to a complete stranger.
Is this correct?
I will be blunt --
Had I a son or daughter who considered doing the above, I would be sitting them down and asking them where I failed.
It's not new, but folks from further away do have addresses and phone numbers in the UK... You can dial a UK number and end up talking with someone in Nigeria, or beyond...
brass n ebony, you're probably not going ahead with this purchase, so can you direct us to the web site where this guy was selling and what he was selling, if there is a scam it's best to spread the word, otherwise someone else might fall into the trap.
"The Craig'slist seller was - or claimed to be - in the UK. That was a total scam."
You don't actually know that, because you didn't follow through the deal. The least likely explanation is that the instrument doesn't exist and it is a total scam. There are a lot of other reasons why sellers might not want you visiting in person - it may be that there is something wrong with the instrument that they haven't disclosed; it may be that the seller is actually a dealer posing as a private seller; it may just be that he can't be bothered giving up an evening to meet a potential buyer when there are others who will pay the same price without putting him to the trouble.
But by and large, total scams (ie pay your money and get nothing in return) are fairly rare in the UK, US and most of Europe, because there are enforcement agencies follow up complaints. The bulk of the scams come from countries where there is little regulation.
Is this instrument based Manchester/Liverpool area?
If so I was in right on the point of buying said instrument but pulled out when he would only accept a cleared bank draft and nothing else would do.
Once payment was cleared he would then meet me in a service station and hand over the instrument, I did have the option of collecting the instrument but that was unfortunately very awkward for me.
I walked away and bought somewhere else and I am very happy with my choice.
If it's a deliberate scammer, Paypal can't , or won't, do much.
The scammer did say he was in New York but I eventually found a load of online complaints and a suggestion that he was actually in Argentina.
Words on an email aren't proof of anything, unfortunately.
So you could try googling "person's email address" + "scam" and see what comes up - that's how I found my con-artist out.
Its a beautiful half set of uilleann pipes and to be honest I think ill have to let this one go. Like it was mentioned above always go with your gut instinct which I am doing.
Sorry to raise yet another concern, but even seeing and playing the instrument and taking it away may not be good enough.
A sessionmate recently bought a guitar through Craigslist, which was delivered to a neutral location and paid for in cash. The new owner then discovered that the serial number had been scratched out.
If an object turns out to belong to someone other than the seller, the purchaser may legally lose his investment when it is reclaimed by its rightful owner.
Skreech - we didn't expect her give up an evening - offered to meet her at a neutral location near to her home to see the instrument and pay cash. She didn't contact us again. I discovered afterwards that Craigslist has a reputation for scammers.
Weejie - everyone knows we are splendid, upstanding, honest people who like nothing better than warm beer and cricket and knitting horrible Christmas sweaters for unsuspecting relatives.
Sympathies, and wise your guts are... It is easy to lift a photo of a desired item and then pretend to have it up for sale. Also, as just noted, a lot of instruments also get stolen and find their way onto places like eBay and Craig's List and the local corner. I picked up just such an instrument I knew had been stolen and which, working in the music industry at the time, I was sure we'd be able to find the owner of. It was a woodwind worth several thousand that I picked up for a twenty... We did find the owner, a member of a well known symphony orchestra.
In my experience, and knowing that of others, someone selling a musical instrument who has a close association with music is rarely shy to meet another musician and to show their wares, whatever it is they have for sale, and having that shared passion, which normally includes compassion and understanding. It makes me angry that people do wind-ups playing on the passions of others, as here, baiting you with something you wanted and saved for, likely for sometime.
Best of luck in this, though it will probably require more patience, time and money. When you find it the'right' person selling it won't hesitate to be considerate and helpful... Who wants to buy anything from an arsehole, it would only taint the item purchased...
Online buying from a private seller
Online buying from a private seller
Hi everyone,
I have a little issue and would be gratefull if someone could shed some light on it,
I'm looking to buy a musical instrument from a potential private seller online,
he is from a different country so I cant really arrange to view it. I kind of have to take a chance that its in good nick. The arrangement he wants is for me to pay him by bank draught and when it clears he will send the item. I have never dealt like this before and for some reason I dont feel comfortable about it. Has anyone else ever dealt like this before and how did it turn out? My fear is the cheque clears he keeps the money and im left with no money or musical instrument!! Do I have any comeback at all with a bank draught or how do they work?
Thanks
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by brass n ebony
Re: Online buying from a private seller
You have a one in two chance of being ripped off, or at least, being unhappy with little recourse. The only way I would do this is to have my payment held in escrow by a mutually agreed-upon third party who would release the payment when both sides are satisfied.
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Online buying from a private seller
You might find out if he knows other musicians that you might have heard of. Ask for references he might be able to provide from makers or dealers. You can work through an escrow agency, though that would cost something. You might know somebody in common - six degrees of separation. Does he regularly post to an internet list? That would provide a feedback mechanism that could offer some protection.
But basically it comes down to trust. I have never been scammed like this. I would go with your gut feeling and go forward if everything seems on the up and up and the reward justifies the risk.
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by David Levine
What are the odds
This is silly: "You have a one in two chance of being ripped off, or at least, being unhappy with little recourse." Where dies this % figure come from? Certainly it is not the case that half the people buying on the net get ripped off.
I have been ripped off like this just once, in over fifteen years of dealing on the net, both buying and selling - and that was a clever ebay scam.
If you try to get to know the seller you might find that your fears are allayed, or, on the other hand, justified. You don't have to walk into the transaction coldly. Ask questions about the person selling the instrument: where he works, what he does for a living, his age. For instance, if he works for the Post or some other government agency you are probably very safe.
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by David Levine
Re: Online buying from a private seller
I have said to him that I would like to view the item at my own expenses which would mean me travelling from Ireland to the UK but he says he's to busy in work and the only way he will deal is for me to pay by bank draught and as soon as it clears he will ship the item! I have an email confirming from him he will give me a thirty day money back guarantee with the item. I dont know but it sounds a little bit fishy for some strange reason.
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by brass n ebony
Re: Online buying from a private seller
Mmm....The seller is obviously cautious in waiting for a banker's draft to clear. The seller should appreciate your caution too. If the seller isn't willing to meet you in person, then I would say it probably isn't worth pursuing.
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by Weejie
Re: Online buying from a private seller
it's time to walk away from this one...
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by Theirlandais
Re: Online buying from a private seller
I believe you are both protected if you do it through PayPal. He requests a payment through PayPal and you pay him. He's guaranteed his money and if you do not get the item PayPal will compensate you and go after him... I think
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by jimtowat
Re: Online buying from a private seller
sounds like a scam - if the guy is serious and wants to be paid for his instrument use paypal - you can offer to pay the paypal fees if that's an issue -
I have purchased using paypal, not received item and have been refunded the $ after reporting the rip off to paypal.
paypal fees calculator: ppcalc.com/
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by Reeds Munson
Re: Online buying from a private seller
sounds didgy. i wouldn'y touch it. maybe paypal would be ok, not sure.
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by palethinboy
Re: Online buying from a private seller
he says he's to busy in work - 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? He can't leave it with someone for you to view?
It sounds worrying. I'm in agreement with the other posters - Paypal is the only way I would consider doing this.
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by c.g.
Re: Online buying from a private seller
walk away
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by bazouki dave
Re: Online buying from a private seller
This is standard:
"... the only way he will deal is for me to pay by bank draught and as soon as it clears he will ship the item." Nothing wrong with that. But a thirty-day guarantee sounds far too long to be real. It sounds like a come-on. I don't trust that. Most sellers only offer a seven-day trial period.
"...you are both protected if you do it through PayPal..."
Only if there is sufficient money in the seller's Paypal account to cover the amount of the refund. If the seller had no money in his account -- ie, opened it for the purpose of scamming -- then you are screwed.
I agree-- walk away. If it sounds too good to be true it probably is too good to be true.
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by David Levine
Re: Online buying from a private seller
" I have said to him that I would like to view the item at my own expenses which would mean me travelling from Ireland to the UK but he says he's to busy in work"
Where does he work..China??
You have to ask yourself how would you go about selling an instrument....Me...i'd go to any length to help a potential purchaser, and I would prefer that the purchaser try out the instrument if possible. I'd give this one a wide berth!
As a point of interest what was/is the instrument for sale?
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by Free Reed
Re: Online buying from a private seller
"The arrangement he wants is for me to pay him by bank draught and when it clears he will send the item"
Do not do this, period.
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Online buying from a private seller
Sellers can get frightened too. So the request for payment before shipping seems reasonable to me. However, I think the refusal to meet with you under any circumstances, if that's what he's saying, is dodgy to say the least. If I was selling something and someone offered to come and see me and buy it person, with cash at the ready, I'd be pleased as punch.
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by ethical blend
Re: Online buying from a private seller
Ditto -- why a banker's draught, and not a cheque? Leave it alone, is my advice.
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by gam
Re: Online buying from a private seller
Do NOT do this. You will never see that instrument or your money again. If you are willing to travel from Ireland to the UK & he won't meet you then feck Him!
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by palethinboy
Re: Online buying from a private seller
You could offer the transfer the money into his account so you knew where it had gone. I suppose he could have set one up specially for a scam but with all the palaver of setting up an EU bank account due to anti money laundering regulations it would be a big effort just for price of an instrument you would buy unseen.
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by David50
Re: Online buying from a private scammer
Shifty, dodgy, evasive - as said a couple of times already here - walk away... The minute you said they would only accept a bankers' draft was enough to start distrust, then he didn't have the time to let you see the instrument - that's an immediate klaxon's worth of warning...
However, also tell us more, what instrument and where did you stumble across this sale? 'Online' is a vast place, and there be sharks...
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by ceolachan
Re: Online buying from a private seller
paypal.
Its worked perfect for me always.....
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by seaniemcg
Re: Online buying from a private seller
You haven't said whether it's through Ebay or some possibly dodgy site. If it's Ebay with pre-payment through PayPal, then you've nothing to worry about, as others have pointed out.
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by Where?
Re: Online buying from a private seller
I've paid for an instrument in the past by credit transfer, it was in Scandanavia and it all worked out fine but I did check the seller's online history to see what their line of opinions was previously. I've also sold an instrument by bank draft but again was able to establish trust by showing my history, business site etc.
So don't necessarily rule it out, but do check their online history carefully. The fact that they won't meet if you travel over sounds bad, though. Check again.
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by the wounded hussar
Re: Online buying from a private seller
>>I would like to view the item ... but he says he's to busy in work and the only way he will deal is for me to pay by bank draught <<
Two definite danger signals there. I advise you to walk away from this one if he won't budge on those conditions. The obvious reason that a 'seller' won't let a buyer see something is that the something does not exist.
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by DaveL35
Re: Online buying from a private seller
FWIW:
Go with your gut instinct. When in doubt, there is no doubt
(pardon the cliche'). Seriously, if the situation fills you with doubts and stress, leave it. And i agree with DaveL35 regarding his conditiosn, especially if the seller is inflexible about them. Why deal with someone unpleasant anyway?
Exit, stage right.
# Posted on December 13th 2011 by Piece
Re: Online buying from a private seller
I came across this standard scam when searching for a puppy online. There is a website which charges sellers a nominal fee to allow them to use the site, and they offer suggestions to help protect buyers. One was "ask the seller to send a new photo, with your name and the date on a piece of paper (in the photo.)
Those who do not have the puppy/instrument in their possession cannot comply, of course.
I discovered that two or three obviously linked "sellers" were offering dogs, from several countries, for a fraction of the going price, and asking for a deposit to start the transaction. When I pointed this out to the website manager, she immediately cancelled the spurious accounts.
Trying to deal with this kind of thing on your own would be very risky, but the first thing to do, as someone mentioned above, is to get verifiable identification and references.
# Posted on December 14th 2011 by oldstrings
Re: Online buying from a private seller
Thanks for all of the replies its a dodgy situation alright and i think it would be best off if I let this one go. I sent him one more email stating I wont be buying unless I see the item in person, it will be interesting to hear the reply! Ill update when I hear.
# Posted on December 14th 2011 by brass n ebony
Re: Online buying from a private seller
this worked out in the end but it was a bit dodgy
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/28644
# Posted on December 14th 2011 by Atk
Re: Online buying from a private seller
It's very hard to be patient when you have your heart set on a new instrument but I think in this case it would be wise to let it go and start your search again. Besides, you might not even like the sound, tone or even the feel of that instrument so it's always best to 'try before you buy'!
# Posted on December 14th 2011 by Pi
Re: Online buying from a private seller
I've never been ripped off online, but this one sounds dodgy.
# Posted on December 14th 2011 by Hup
Re: Online buying from a private seller
[I have said to him that I would like to view the item at my own expenses which would mean me travelling from Ireland to the UK but he says he's to busy in work and the only way he will deal is for me to pay by bank draught and as soon as it clears he will ship the item!]
this is nonsense, absolute nonsense. if this quote-unquote seller will not let you view the item at your expense [or arrange to leave it with a known tech of that type of instrument in the UK who can check it and vet it for you for a fee, and communicate the results to you], you know everything you need to know, namely, this is NOT a person you wish to deal with.
# Posted on December 14th 2011 by ceemonster
Re: Online buying from a private seller
"One was "ask the seller to send a new photo, with your name and the date on a piece of paper (in the photo.)
Those who do not have the puppy/instrument in their possession cannot comply, of course."
Unless they are good with photoshop!
Is this instrument something really special (you are willing to travel from Ireland to see it)
Is the price below average?
If something seems to good to be true it probably is. Like the mandolin on Craig's list that my partner was interested in.. We said we would travel to London to see it. We never heard from the seller again.
# Posted on December 14th 2011 by c.g.
Re: Online buying from a private seller
"I have never dealt like this before and for some reason I dont feel comfortable about it." Go with ytour gut instinct, it's all you've got.
If the seller is in the UK it's unlikely that it is a total scam, you probably would recieve an instrument for your money (unlike buying that way out of Germany or E. Europe). But the instrument is very likely to be a dud.
One of the key sklills in this game is reading what it doesn't say in the listing, rather than what it does - if it doesn't specifically say the neck is straight, you assume it is warped. If it doesn't say there are no cracks, you assume the side he hasn't photographed is split to pieces.
Buying blind is fine for dealers who can afford to take a punt - a dud instrument now and again just means a bit less profit. But if you've saved up your cash to buy an instrument for yourself, you'll almost certainly be disappointed with what you get buying blind from a private listing or auction.
# Posted on December 14th 2011 by skreech
Re: Online buying from a private seller
Okay --- so, in the final analysis:
(1) You cannot go and see this amazing bargain, and (2) you have to pay up front, pure blind faith, no safeguard for your investment, to a complete stranger.
Is this correct?
I will be blunt --
Had I a son or daughter who considered doing the above, I would be sitting them down and asking them where I failed.
Good Luck.
# Posted on December 14th 2011 by Piece
Re: Online buying from a private seller
"If the seller is in the UK it's unlikely that it is a total scam"
The Craig'slist seller was - or claimed to be - in the UK. That was a total scam.
# Posted on December 14th 2011 by c.g.
Re: Online buying from a private seller
What "Craigslist seller"?
Are you saying that anyone in the UK would do anything so un-British as to attempt to defraud the populus?
# Posted on December 14th 2011 by Weejie
Re: Online buying from a private seller
It's not new, but folks from further away do have addresses and phone numbers in the UK... You can dial a UK number and end up talking with someone in Nigeria, or beyond...
# Posted on December 14th 2011 by ceolachan
Re: Online buying from a private seller
brass n ebony, you're probably not going ahead with this purchase, so can you direct us to the web site where this guy was selling and what he was selling, if there is a scam it's best to spread the word, otherwise someone else might fall into the trap.
# Posted on December 14th 2011 by Theirlandais
Re: Online buying from a private seller
"The Craig'slist seller was - or claimed to be - in the UK. That was a total scam."
You don't actually know that, because you didn't follow through the deal. The least likely explanation is that the instrument doesn't exist and it is a total scam. There are a lot of other reasons why sellers might not want you visiting in person - it may be that there is something wrong with the instrument that they haven't disclosed; it may be that the seller is actually a dealer posing as a private seller; it may just be that he can't be bothered giving up an evening to meet a potential buyer when there are others who will pay the same price without putting him to the trouble.
But by and large, total scams (ie pay your money and get nothing in return) are fairly rare in the UK, US and most of Europe, because there are enforcement agencies follow up complaints. The bulk of the scams come from countries where there is little regulation.
# Posted on December 14th 2011 by skreech
Re: Online buying from a private seller
Is this instrument based Manchester/Liverpool area?
If so I was in right on the point of buying said instrument but pulled out when he would only accept a cleared bank draft and nothing else would do.
Once payment was cleared he would then meet me in a service station and hand over the instrument, I did have the option of collecting the instrument but that was unfortunately very awkward for me.
I walked away and bought somewhere else and I am very happy with my choice.
# Posted on December 14th 2011 by iain beag
Re: Online buying from a private seller
I've been ripped off through Paypal.
If it's a deliberate scammer, Paypal can't , or won't, do much.
The scammer did say he was in New York but I eventually found a load of online complaints and a suggestion that he was actually in Argentina.
Words on an email aren't proof of anything, unfortunately.
So you could try googling "person's email address" + "scam" and see what comes up - that's how I found my con-artist out.
# Posted on December 14th 2011 by Bren
Re: Online buying from a private seller
What is the instrument?
# Posted on December 14th 2011 by SmashTheWindows
Re: Online buying from a private seller
Its a beautiful half set of uilleann pipes and to be honest I think ill have to let this one go. Like it was mentioned above always go with your gut instinct which I am doing.
# Posted on December 14th 2011 by brass n ebony
Re: Online buying from a private seller
Yeah, if you can't try something like that, definitely a good idea to give it a miss.
# Posted on December 15th 2011 by SmashTheWindows
Re: Online buying from a private seller
Sorry to raise yet another concern, but even seeing and playing the instrument and taking it away may not be good enough.
A sessionmate recently bought a guitar through Craigslist, which was delivered to a neutral location and paid for in cash. The new owner then discovered that the serial number had been scratched out.
If an object turns out to belong to someone other than the seller, the purchaser may legally lose his investment when it is reclaimed by its rightful owner.
# Posted on December 15th 2011 by oldstrings
Re: Online buying from a private seller
Skreech - we didn't expect her give up an evening - offered to meet her at a neutral location near to her home to see the instrument and pay cash. She didn't contact us again. I discovered afterwards that Craigslist has a reputation for scammers.
Weejie - everyone knows we are splendid, upstanding, honest people who like nothing better than warm beer and cricket and knitting horrible Christmas sweaters for unsuspecting relatives.
# Posted on December 15th 2011 by c.g.
Re: Online buying from a private seller
Sympathies, and wise your guts are... It is easy to lift a photo of a desired item and then pretend to have it up for sale. Also, as just noted, a lot of instruments also get stolen and find their way onto places like eBay and Craig's List and the local corner. I picked up just such an instrument I knew had been stolen and which, working in the music industry at the time, I was sure we'd be able to find the owner of. It was a woodwind worth several thousand that I picked up for a twenty... We did find the owner, a member of a well known symphony orchestra.
In my experience, and knowing that of others, someone selling a musical instrument who has a close association with music is rarely shy to meet another musician and to show their wares, whatever it is they have for sale, and having that shared passion, which normally includes compassion and understanding. It makes me angry that people do wind-ups playing on the passions of others, as here, baiting you with something you wanted and saved for, likely for sometime.
Best of luck in this, though it will probably require more patience, time and money. When you find it the'right' person selling it won't hesitate to be considerate and helpful... Who wants to buy anything from an arsehole, it would only taint the item purchased...
# Posted on December 15th 2011 by ceolachan
Re: Online buying from a private seller
Who wants to buy anything from an arsehole, it would only taint the item purchased...
haha wise words cheers
# Posted on December 15th 2011 by brass n ebony
Re: Online buying from a private seller
brass n ebony, I think the general advice on this thread has been a pretty good collective Christmas present!
# Posted on December 17th 2011 by Trevor Jennings