Do box players primarily use either a 5 note roll or a half roll? I'm given to understand that the younger Paddy O'Brien uses mostly the half roll; who are some others? And Joe Burke is mostly 5 note rolls. How about Jackie Daly, or others?
Most box players don't use the pinky, given from what I've read, and watching lots of videos; do they not even use it for the grace note? And wouldn't that mean that the 5 noters who eschew the pinky would only play rolls using the index finger?
Older players seem to ornament triplets in various ways, when the didn't just repeat eighth notes. Anybody analyzed what Kimmel/Conlon/Flanagan/J O'Brien were doing? Jerry O'B and Derrane use a lot of something trillish, can't tell what they were doing with the records at speed, might try slowing them down to find out what that sound is. Finbarr Dwyer played/plays triplets with a cut, from the sounds of things. Any others like him?
well, why don't you do like the rest of us : get amazing slowdowner or transcribe, and listen to the tunes slowed down, you'll get to know the ornaments habits of all the people you're talking about... some of the ornaments depend on the type of box played : John Kimmel used to play - tremendously well - a one-row melodeon. Some people like Denis Pépin in Québec or Christian Maes in France analyzed his style and recorded a tribute cd to Kimmel, all in the Kimmel style. Jo Derrane plays a D/C#, and not a C#/D. And my guess is that some type of ornaments are more easily done on a BC, and other on a C#/D... If you want an "Analyzer", you can try to get in touch with Gilles Poutoux from France (sorry, I don't have thier contacts....)
The way i see it is. a half roll is a 'diddley' and more than that becomes a 'skiddery'
As for using the 'pinky' The good Lord gave button box players a thumb to steady the box with and four fingers to make music with.(unless of course you are playing a continental button box and then your thumb can also be brought into play). Take for example the last note of the second part of The Cliffs of Moher Jig. It's an A note and on the second time round many players, including myself, play the low A. The first part of the tune then starts again with a high A. From the low A to the high A is a complete span of the adult hand. It's hard enough to hit the right note using the pinky. You'd have to be very accurate to hit that high A without using it.
I noticed the discussion on melodeon.net already. Figured by asking here might get some differing insights. Have read lots of previous discussions here, too; tried to think of some novel questions to put forth.
i'm not sure what you are asking. okay, i think i understand you to be asking about two things, the second one being, is the pinky "done" or "not done". but before the pinky issue, you seem to be asking something about ornaments/rolls, which is unclear to me. you reeled off everything everybody does (just about)---so if you know all that, what are you asking?
pinky: this one has a split of opinion. schools of thought. armed camps. some master teachers will cuff you if you use the pinky. others say, for god's sake, use it. i just came out of a class with b/c player dan gurney, who uses it with glee, and who cheerfully egged us on to tell billy mccomiskey he said so....
rolls/ornaments: again--it is unclear what you want here. if you can narrow it and be a bit more specific, there is no telling what kind of opinions might erupt. but the simplified version is, that earlier ornamentation on two-row irish box, which is still in use today, would be the ornamentation used on the one-row melodeon, imported to the two-row. same-note triplets, and what i think of as the so-called "half-roll" (a same-note triplet with a cut inserted, either after the first note, or sometimes before the last note) as being in this one-row-melodeon-derived ornament style. sonny brogan ornamented like this, and i think it's fair to say that the younger paddy o'brien as well as tony macmahon, peter carberry, charlie piggot, josephine marsh, are contemporary players who ornament much like this. this would be my own personal favorite box ornamentation, as a player and particularly as a listener.
full-on five-note-rolls copying the ones fiddlers use came into vogue in the mid-20th century. the late paddy o'brien was a pioneer of this ornamentation, and joe burke is one of its famed virtuosos. the five-note-roll style remains an orthodoxy in some quarters, particularly for comhaltas fleadh championship purposes. some ethnomusicologist even wrote a paper about sociological changes in working-class irish culture being reflected in the evolution of box ornaments.
after that came a more contemporary roll-ish ornament, which is, using different fingers extremely fast to play the same note four or five times in rapid-fire staccato, beebee-gun or pellet-gun style. the gatlin-gun ornament.
all of the above are in use today. some players use all of them, some use a couple, some stick to one approach. it is true, that box players who win fleadhs, if you care about that sort of thing, not always but usually, do elaborate ornaments, and they are often in the five-note-fiddle-roll style. and it is also true, if you care, that players considered turks or hotshots tend to do elaborate ornaments which are often quite noisy as well.
but it is equally true, that some of the most gorgeous, swingy, expressive, cold-chill-inducing traditional irish box players do the one-row-melodeon-style ornamention, or even less than that.
you don't have to ask permission to decide which of these, or which combination of these, you wish to pursue as a player. i was in a box workshop recently with PA player jimmy keane, where a student asked about rolls, and asked if keane could explain how one might get ideas for box rolls from whistle rolls. and keane thought a sec and said, well, that's the thing---there's different whistle rolls. he said, i mean, you can do micho russell's way of ornamenting, and that sounds great, and then there's more complicated whistle ornaments, and those sound great.
Thanks, ceemonster. I was asking if a player like Joe Burke, say, just does the 5 note rolls all day, or do they throw in the odd half roll here and there. Also does he grace with the pinky? Because if he doesn't, that means he has to always finger a rolled note with the middle finger. Watching videos he, like most others, doesn't seem to use the pinky, but you can only tell so much from footage on YouTube.
In a previous post of yours you mentioned Johnny B Connolly ("Johnny Box" we call him here in Oregon) mostly half rolling but throwing in the odd 5 note too, so it would seem it can be done. This isn't surprising to me since I already play ornaments various ways on other instruments, depending on whim. I just thought I'd ask around if it's common to mix things up on the accordion, I'm trying to familiarize myself with how these ornaments sound on records. Your list of half-rollers is a great start.
Incidentally something akin to the box half roll is already played by some pipers, where the lower "grace note" is actually a finger closing the chanter, creating a silence.
Did Sharon Shannon invent using the treble on the box? You never hear it from older players. I know about Phil Cunningham etc playing trebles on PAs. Was Sharon the first Irish accordionist to use that, though?
yes, yes, yes, people mix things up. you can be a mostly-five-note-roller and throw in half-rolls and also plain same-note triplets. no, the five-note-rollers don't do them constantly any more than the fiddlers do. its usually only the really long notes, dotted quarters as opposed to quarters, that give room for five-note rolls. if you read a good book or clearly written explanation on fiddle ornamentation, you'll see what i mean. the "shorter-longer" notes, you'd do something else. a half-roll. a double-stop. same-note triplet. something else. if you listen to joe burke or john nolan or finnbar (yes, i think he does do them) playing reels, they does not do only five-note rolls.
the reverse is also the case. some of the people who i think of as playing a plainer, more sonny broganish (or in whistle terms, micho russell-ish) style, will throw in a five-note roll or a gatlin-run roll now and then, too. mary rafferty is someone who i usually discern as playing same-note triplets and half-rolls, but there might be five-note rolls in there sometimes as well.
well, hey, since "johnny box" is right in your back yard, you should learn a couple reels off his cd, and then see if he might be amenable to a lesson where you guys just look at those reels--possible ornamentation and bass choices. that way you get more for your time; ear learning is a waste of time in a lesson when you can do it at home, though it's great when they tape a bunch of stuff at the end of the class for you to work on later. when i said what i thought he does, i'm talking just from listening to the cd a lot. i don't actually know for certain what he does, and people often play very different live than on recordings.
re joe burke and the pinky: unfortunately, when i did three years of what the clancy week accordion dept. calls his "master class" in the early 2000s, by my current gauge, i could barely play at the time. i think he put me in there out of graciousness.... i got through a tune well enough in the grading that they put me in there, and i could keep up with the ear-learning (and that is what the class was---only ear learning), but i was not box-literate enough to be able to tell what he was doing. i didn't even know there was a pinky-war at the time. the irish kids in there, almost all had teachers who were known and wonderful irish box players, and they already had rolls and cuts and stuff. looking back, i guess most of them were doing the comhaltas-approved five-note-roll style. the first year there were a couple of older teen lads who were total hotshots, dressed like Eminem, and in retrospect i think they were doing the gatlin-gun roll. he didn't scold them or anything, but i don't think it was a big hit. he did show how he did his five-note rolls, but the pinky was never discussed.
interesting, never thought about this. early on, i was a pinky person just instinctively without knowing there was any issue over it, and was using it at the time i did those clancy classes, in the grading and all three years in his class, and neither he nor anybody else ever said anything. one of those years i took a private lesson from another of the teachers there, and he didn't say anything. soo....maybe that means the pinky was not verboten for them, or perhaps they thought i was in such desperate shape it would be better not to discuss it at that point....
during that same time, i had a couple of years of session mentoring from an East Galway crony of joe burke's named Desmond O'Regan, lovely b/c player who lived in my locality and is now RIP. that gentleman took his own style from kevin keegan and the late paddy o'brien, and loved joe burke and joe burke's style, and he never said anything about my pinky use either. but i can't remember whether he or joe burke were using it themselves. today, natch, i would be looking or asking. i tried to stop it for a while after being in a workshop where Moses Broke the Tablets over the pinky, but reverted to it and have not looked back since. john whelan does use it. i believe john nolan as well.
what do you mean by treble? do you mean a high treble reed, like they say MMH? or somthing else?
also, it seems that succeeding "innovations" in box ornamentation get viewed with suspicion and disapproval by exponents of earlier F/X. i'm talking rolls or more elaborate stuff that you'd do on long notes. the liner notes to a reg hall tape i have with sonny brogan on it state that sonny brogan viewed the five-note-roll development as a "decadent" turn in box ornamentation (i kind of agree, but i practice it sometimes)....but definitely some of the five-note-rollers view the gatlin-gun-super-staccato-explosion as appalling (i kind of agree, but i practice it sometimes).
Years ago, I bought a videotape of Peter Browne playing accordion, which was like a master class in different types of ornamentation. Way too advanced for a rank beginner. So I put it away, and of course, have no idea where it is now that I have reached the point where I could use it. I suppose I will have to buy a new copy: http://www.amazon.com/Irish-Button-Accordion-Techniques-Browne/dp/B000HRLWHG
Thanks again, ceemonster. Johnny does give lessons, might avail myself of that sometime. There's another terrific box player in Portland, Mike Beglan, who moved here from Cavan in the 70s, and has run a session in his pub since; I hear him a lot more than Johnny, who only plays at a private session. No video of Mikey in action, unfortunately. He reminds me of MacMahon, perhaps, booming basses and heaps of drive. B/C instead of D/D#, though. He also puts me in mind of the 1st Paddy O'Brien. Not an instructor, though.
A friend of mine used to play with Kevin Keegan, and Cooley before that. Need to pick his brain some. He eschews the pinky too. "Pinky wars," that's good. Michael Usui at Irish Dancemaster accordions, who I got my box from, was telling me about factions of B/C and C#/D players getting into it; having rumbles? Glaring at each other? Sounded pretty funny. Probably like pipes and proponents of flat pitch (Bb, B, C, C#) vs concert pitch (D, D, maybe a bit of D.), where the first group looks down its noses at the second one a bit. You box players need to get more into G/G#. It's instant status...well sounds very nice too.
"Treble" is a term for the same note triplet. Seems mostly used by fiddlers.
I'm trying to get copies of those DVDs via the library, Browne and also the John Williams one. Am on a budget after spending all that money on the accordion itself...Have you fellows watched Steve Jones's C#/D instructional videos on YouTube? They're great, he's an excellent player and is very adept at explaining things. http://www.youtube.com/user/ZiziAllaire#g/u
Beglan's one of the best, but you'll never get him to admit that he has anything worth teaching. But listening to him for an hour is as good as a lesson - just listen, then go home and try to do that. You won't end up playing what he plays, but you'll learn a lot.
Questions about accordion ornaments
Questions about accordion ornaments
Do box players primarily use either a 5 note roll or a half roll? I'm given to understand that the younger Paddy O'Brien uses mostly the half roll; who are some others? And Joe Burke is mostly 5 note rolls. How about Jackie Daly, or others?
Most box players don't use the pinky, given from what I've read, and watching lots of videos; do they not even use it for the grace note? And wouldn't that mean that the 5 noters who eschew the pinky would only play rolls using the index finger?
Older players seem to ornament triplets in various ways, when the didn't just repeat eighth notes. Anybody analyzed what Kimmel/Conlon/Flanagan/J O'Brien were doing? Jerry O'B and Derrane use a lot of something trillish, can't tell what they were doing with the records at speed, might try slowing them down to find out what that sound is. Finbarr Dwyer played/plays triplets with a cut, from the sounds of things. Any others like him?
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by Kevin Rietmann
Re: Questions about accordion ornaments
well, why don't you do like the rest of us : get amazing slowdowner or transcribe, and listen to the tunes slowed down, you'll get to know the ornaments habits of all the people you're talking about... some of the ornaments depend on the type of box played : John Kimmel used to play - tremendously well - a one-row melodeon. Some people like Denis Pépin in Québec or Christian Maes in France analyzed his style and recorded a tribute cd to Kimmel, all in the Kimmel style. Jo Derrane plays a D/C#, and not a C#/D. And my guess is that some type of ornaments are more easily done on a BC, and other on a C#/D... If you want an "Analyzer", you can try to get in touch with Gilles Poutoux from France (sorry, I don't have thier contacts....)
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by Nikita Pfister
Re: Questions about accordion ornaments
"well, why don't you do like the rest of us : get amazing slowdowner or transcribe, and listen to the tunes slowed down"
Speak for yourself...
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Questions about accordion ornaments
Take a look at http://forum.melodeon.net some of this was discussed a few weeks ago
here it is
http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,8150.0.html
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by Gromit
Re: Questions about accordion ornaments
Sorry, but someone was going to do this
http://www.zazzle.co.uk/accordion_ornament-175664815755672460
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by On Sabbatical
Re: Questions about accordion ornaments
The way i see it is. a half roll is a 'diddley' and more than that becomes a 'skiddery'
As for using the 'pinky' The good Lord gave button box players a thumb to steady the box with and four fingers to make music with.(unless of course you are playing a continental button box and then your thumb can also be brought into play). Take for example the last note of the second part of The Cliffs of Moher Jig. It's an A note and on the second time round many players, including myself, play the low A. The first part of the tune then starts again with a high A. From the low A to the high A is a complete span of the adult hand. It's hard enough to hit the right note using the pinky. You'd have to be very accurate to hit that high A without using it.
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by Free Reed
Re: Questions about accordion ornaments
I noticed the discussion on melodeon.net already. Figured by asking here might get some differing insights. Have read lots of previous discussions here, too; tried to think of some novel questions to put forth.
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by Kevin Rietmann
Re: Questions about accordion ornaments
i'm not sure what you are asking. okay, i think i understand you to be asking about two things, the second one being, is the pinky "done" or "not done". but before the pinky issue, you seem to be asking something about ornaments/rolls, which is unclear to me. you reeled off everything everybody does (just about)---so if you know all that, what are you asking?
pinky: this one has a split of opinion. schools of thought. armed camps. some master teachers will cuff you if you use the pinky. others say, for god's sake, use it. i just came out of a class with b/c player dan gurney, who uses it with glee, and who cheerfully egged us on to tell billy mccomiskey he said so....
rolls/ornaments: again--it is unclear what you want here. if you can narrow it and be a bit more specific, there is no telling what kind of opinions might erupt. but the simplified version is, that earlier ornamentation on two-row irish box, which is still in use today, would be the ornamentation used on the one-row melodeon, imported to the two-row. same-note triplets, and what i think of as the so-called "half-roll" (a same-note triplet with a cut inserted, either after the first note, or sometimes before the last note) as being in this one-row-melodeon-derived ornament style. sonny brogan ornamented like this, and i think it's fair to say that the younger paddy o'brien as well as tony macmahon, peter carberry, charlie piggot, josephine marsh, are contemporary players who ornament much like this. this would be my own personal favorite box ornamentation, as a player and particularly as a listener.
full-on five-note-rolls copying the ones fiddlers use came into vogue in the mid-20th century. the late paddy o'brien was a pioneer of this ornamentation, and joe burke is one of its famed virtuosos. the five-note-roll style remains an orthodoxy in some quarters, particularly for comhaltas fleadh championship purposes. some ethnomusicologist even wrote a paper about sociological changes in working-class irish culture being reflected in the evolution of box ornaments.
after that came a more contemporary roll-ish ornament, which is, using different fingers extremely fast to play the same note four or five times in rapid-fire staccato, beebee-gun or pellet-gun style. the gatlin-gun ornament.
all of the above are in use today. some players use all of them, some use a couple, some stick to one approach. it is true, that box players who win fleadhs, if you care about that sort of thing, not always but usually, do elaborate ornaments, and they are often in the five-note-fiddle-roll style. and it is also true, if you care, that players considered turks or hotshots tend to do elaborate ornaments which are often quite noisy as well.
but it is equally true, that some of the most gorgeous, swingy, expressive, cold-chill-inducing traditional irish box players do the one-row-melodeon-style ornamention, or even less than that.
you don't have to ask permission to decide which of these, or which combination of these, you wish to pursue as a player. i was in a box workshop recently with PA player jimmy keane, where a student asked about rolls, and asked if keane could explain how one might get ideas for box rolls from whistle rolls. and keane thought a sec and said, well, that's the thing---there's different whistle rolls. he said, i mean, you can do micho russell's way of ornamenting, and that sounds great, and then there's more complicated whistle ornaments, and those sound great.
so?
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by ceemonster
Re: Questions about accordion ornaments
Thanks, ceemonster. I was asking if a player like Joe Burke, say, just does the 5 note rolls all day, or do they throw in the odd half roll here and there. Also does he grace with the pinky? Because if he doesn't, that means he has to always finger a rolled note with the middle finger. Watching videos he, like most others, doesn't seem to use the pinky, but you can only tell so much from footage on YouTube.
In a previous post of yours you mentioned Johnny B Connolly ("Johnny Box" we call him here in Oregon) mostly half rolling but throwing in the odd 5 note too, so it would seem it can be done. This isn't surprising to me since I already play ornaments various ways on other instruments, depending on whim. I just thought I'd ask around if it's common to mix things up on the accordion, I'm trying to familiarize myself with how these ornaments sound on records. Your list of half-rollers is a great start.
Incidentally something akin to the box half roll is already played by some pipers, where the lower "grace note" is actually a finger closing the chanter, creating a silence.
Did Sharon Shannon invent using the treble on the box? You never hear it from older players. I know about Phil Cunningham etc playing trebles on PAs. Was Sharon the first Irish accordionist to use that, though?
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by Kevin Rietmann
Re: Questions about accordion ornaments
yes, yes, yes, people mix things up. you can be a mostly-five-note-roller and throw in half-rolls and also plain same-note triplets. no, the five-note-rollers don't do them constantly any more than the fiddlers do. its usually only the really long notes, dotted quarters as opposed to quarters, that give room for five-note rolls. if you read a good book or clearly written explanation on fiddle ornamentation, you'll see what i mean. the "shorter-longer" notes, you'd do something else. a half-roll. a double-stop. same-note triplet. something else. if you listen to joe burke or john nolan or finnbar (yes, i think he does do them) playing reels, they does not do only five-note rolls.
i got through a tune well enough in the grading that they put me in there, and i could keep up with the ear-learning (and that is what the class was---only ear learning), but i was not box-literate enough to be able to tell what he was doing. i didn't even know there was a pinky-war at the time. the irish kids in there, almost all had teachers who were known and wonderful irish box players, and they already had rolls and cuts and stuff. looking back, i guess most of them were doing the comhaltas-approved five-note-roll style. the first year there were a couple of older teen lads who were total hotshots, dressed like Eminem, and in retrospect i think they were doing the gatlin-gun roll. he didn't scold them or anything, but i don't think it was a big hit. he did show how he did his five-note rolls, but the pinky was never discussed.
the reverse is also the case. some of the people who i think of as playing a plainer, more sonny broganish (or in whistle terms, micho russell-ish) style, will throw in a five-note roll or a gatlin-run roll now and then, too. mary rafferty is someone who i usually discern as playing same-note triplets and half-rolls, but there might be five-note rolls in there sometimes as well.
well, hey, since "johnny box" is right in your back yard, you should learn a couple reels off his cd, and then see if he might be amenable to a lesson where you guys just look at those reels--possible ornamentation and bass choices. that way you get more for your time; ear learning is a waste of time in a lesson when you can do it at home, though it's great when they tape a bunch of stuff at the end of the class for you to work on later. when i said what i thought he does, i'm talking just from listening to the cd a lot. i don't actually know for certain what he does, and people often play very different live than on recordings.
re joe burke and the pinky: unfortunately, when i did three years of what the clancy week accordion dept. calls his "master class" in the early 2000s, by my current gauge, i could barely play at the time. i think he put me in there out of graciousness....
interesting, never thought about this. early on, i was a pinky person just instinctively without knowing there was any issue over it, and was using it at the time i did those clancy classes, in the grading and all three years in his class, and neither he nor anybody else ever said anything. one of those years i took a private lesson from another of the teachers there, and he didn't say anything. soo....maybe that means the pinky was not verboten for them, or perhaps they thought i was in such desperate shape it would be better not to discuss it at that point....
during that same time, i had a couple of years of session mentoring from an East Galway crony of joe burke's named Desmond O'Regan, lovely b/c player who lived in my locality and is now RIP. that gentleman took his own style from kevin keegan and the late paddy o'brien, and loved joe burke and joe burke's style, and he never said anything about my pinky use either. but i can't remember whether he or joe burke were using it themselves. today, natch, i would be looking or asking. i tried to stop it for a while after being in a workshop where Moses Broke the Tablets over the pinky, but reverted to it and have not looked back since. john whelan does use it. i believe john nolan as well.
what do you mean by treble? do you mean a high treble reed, like they say MMH? or somthing else?
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by ceemonster
Re: Questions about accordion ornaments
also, it seems that succeeding "innovations" in box ornamentation get viewed with suspicion and disapproval by exponents of earlier F/X. i'm talking rolls or more elaborate stuff that you'd do on long notes. the liner notes to a reg hall tape i have with sonny brogan on it state that sonny brogan viewed the five-note-roll development as a "decadent" turn in box ornamentation (i kind of agree, but i practice it sometimes)....but definitely some of the five-note-rollers view the gatlin-gun-super-staccato-explosion as appalling (i kind of agree, but i practice it sometimes).
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by ceemonster
Re: Questions about accordion ornaments
Years ago, I bought a videotape of Peter Browne playing accordion, which was like a master class in different types of ornamentation. Way too advanced for a rank beginner. So I put it away, and of course, have no idea where it is now that I have reached the point where I could use it. I suppose I will have to buy a new copy: http://www.amazon.com/Irish-Button-Accordion-Techniques-Browne/dp/B000HRLWHG
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: Questions about accordion ornaments
Thanks again, ceemonster. Johnny does give lessons, might avail myself of that sometime. There's another terrific box player in Portland, Mike Beglan, who moved here from Cavan in the 70s, and has run a session in his pub since; I hear him a lot more than Johnny, who only plays at a private session. No video of Mikey in action, unfortunately. He reminds me of MacMahon, perhaps, booming basses and heaps of drive. B/C instead of D/D#, though. He also puts me in mind of the 1st Paddy O'Brien. Not an instructor, though.
A friend of mine used to play with Kevin Keegan, and Cooley before that. Need to pick his brain some. He eschews the pinky too. "Pinky wars," that's good. Michael Usui at Irish Dancemaster accordions, who I got my box from, was telling me about factions of B/C and C#/D players getting into it; having rumbles? Glaring at each other? Sounded pretty funny. Probably like pipes and proponents of flat pitch (Bb, B, C, C#) vs concert pitch (D, D, maybe a bit of D.), where the first group looks down its noses at the second one a bit. You box players need to get more into G/G#. It's instant status...well sounds very nice too.
"Treble" is a term for the same note triplet. Seems mostly used by fiddlers.
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by Kevin Rietmann
Re: Questions about accordion ornaments
I'm trying to get copies of those DVDs via the library, Browne and also the John Williams one. Am on a budget after spending all that money on the accordion itself...Have you fellows watched Steve Jones's C#/D instructional videos on YouTube? They're great, he's an excellent player and is very adept at explaining things. http://www.youtube.com/user/ZiziAllaire#g/u
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by Kevin Rietmann
Re: Questions about accordion ornaments
Beglan's one of the best, but you'll never get him to admit that he has anything worth teaching. But listening to him for an hour is as good as a lesson - just listen, then go home and try to do that. You won't end up playing what he plays, but you'll learn a lot.
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky