Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
I'm sure we can do better than that fidkid. For one thing, that looks to me like a fireplace in a stately home, which the Clancy Brothers' and Tommy Makem's photographer has hired for the occasion. Whereas it ought rightly to appear to be either one of their own fireplaces or a fireplace in a homely bar where (it is suggested) they while away their days.
Secondly, these bold singers of songs of drinking and rebellion are are drinking OUT OF HALF PINT MUGS WITH HANDLES.
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
http://ceolalainn.blogspot.com/2009/10/julia-john-billy-clifford-star-of.html
This is/was the fireplace in The Favourite in London. I believe it was the practice to put the album sleeves from the patrons' most recent recordings on the mantel shelf. I've been trying for a long time to identify the two seen in this cover.
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
I once remarked to a friend that the television seemed to have taken over from the fireplace as the focal point of the room. He said, "You do realize that focus is Latin for fireplace?" I hadn't realized, but I do now.
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
But let's get back to fireplaces. Lovers of fireplaces will greatly enjoy a visit inside the cover of Pat O'Connor and Eoghan O'Sullivan's enjoyable CD Conversation at the Crosses, which contains a substantial picture of an apparently genuine fiery log. I think this may be a cunning way of explaining to the listener why the recording is punctuated by crackling explosions and occasional startled yelps.
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Eoghan O'Sullivan of course also appears on the obviously fireplace-influenced album "The Smoky Chimney", track 2 of which starts with the sound of somebody peeing into a saucepan, does anyone know why that should be?
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Bernie R, I believe the Icelandic saying you are referring to is, 'Nil aon toinn tinn mar do thoinn tinn fein.' New laptop - no idea how to do fadas yet.
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
No, Sgt. Fox, in fact Google Translate says you have written: "There is no wave sick sick as your own submarine". I can see what you are getting at, but really it has very little to do with fireplaces.
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
The Kiss Me Kate photo is magnificent. The humans take second place in the composition, with Liz Carroll forced by the photographer to sit uncomfortably on the beer-soaked floor, so that we can get a proper look at the fireplace.
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Don't let's get bogged down with details like that Kenny.
I haven't yet been able to inspect the Lucky In Love Charlie Lennon And Mick O'Connor fireplace illustration you suggested. If you can't find an online image, do you think you could do a quick sketch in crayon to give us an idea?
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
I used to *have* a fireplace like the one in the "Kiss Me Kate" photo. When I moved in, one of the friends who helped me carry my stuff informed me that the correct name for that kind of brickwork was "a Jim Reeves job".
Given the lack of fadas I thought I might come to the aid of Sgt. Fox.
"Níl aon tinteán mar do thinteán féin."
A literal translation is “There is no hearth/fireplace better than your own!”
So when this is used in a figurative sense with appropiate nuance, it becomes “There’s no place like home!”
I’d just add that many years ago, with some determined and gentle encouragement, Sgt. Fox guided me in those early stumbling days in my ambition to be able to converse “as gaelige”.
It’s been a slow process, especially as I don’t have anyone out here to converse with!
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
I knew that really Brian, just my little joke. I'd like to learn some gaelic myself, but it seems a daunting prospect, with the difficult grammar and the bizarre spelling/pronunciation.
How do you pronounce "Níl aon tinteán mar do thinteán féin"?
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Just out of interest I had a look through my small collection of Trad Albums and not one of them features a fireplace - Plenty of lakes, mountains, fields, a few gateways and the odd selection of instruments and players. My Scots collection is the same - plenty of Mountains, lakes, and castles. The Scots are also more inclined to feature instruments and pictures of the Band. However, accordionist William Starr is posing in front of a rather magnificent mahogany fireplace on the cover of his album 'The Daddy of them all'
The Favourite Pub Fireplace - I was playing for Tom and Kath McManamon in their pub The Mulberry Tree at Bromley by Bow, London in 1966. The pub was going to be demolished for a new dual carriageway and Tom moved to the Favourite Pub in Holloway. I also moved with him to play the box on a Saturday Night gig in the Favourite when he opened. Jimmy Power, Reg Hall and Jimmy's son Tommy started doing the Sunday morning gig and the rest is history. The Favourite pub was quite modern as pubs go. A saloon bar with a small stage where the musicians performed and a small public bar. All the action took place in the saloon bar. Sorry to say I can't remember a fireplace, nor can my wife who worked part time behind the bar of the Favourite in those days. I'm wondering if there was one in the public bar?
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Randall Bays has a picture of himself sitting in front of a fireplace on his Out Of the Woods CD. He looks quite uncomfortable, like he'd really like this photo session to be done now.
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
I seem to remember seeing an album by the John Ellis Scottish Country Dance Band [ I think ] called "Fire In The Kilt" ! Who would have volunteered to be in that photo ?
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
I bought a mandolin a while ago on eBay (listed in good condition) which when it arrived from Fermanagh looked like it had been hanging up in a fireplace as it was all burned down one side. It had an auction lot number stuck on it so obviously had failed to sell. The action was about a half inch high. It was a laughably horrible instrument and cost me £26 plus postage (serves me right for expecting a bargain). It crossed my mind to relist it as "beautiful flamed tonewood" but I sold it for a fiver to someone to hang up as decoration (in his fireplace, probably).
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Dear Bernie R and Brian,
Now I'm really confused! Bernie R I thought that you were executing a series of wonderfully deft puns on my Irish sayings. Don't tell me that what I thought was a couple of wonderful bilingual parries from you was all in my head?! When I first posted 'Nil aon thintean mar do thintean fein' I was indeed innocently saying, 'There's no hearth like your own hearth' or as Brian says, 'There's no place like home'. Then you replied with your 'Google translate Icelandic' about everyman loving the smell of his own farts. I thought you were alluding to a spoof on the above proverb that my dad, a fluent Irish speaker used to quote, i.e. 'Nil aon toin tinn mar do thoin tinn fein', literally 'There's no sick arse like your own sick arse'. Your response to that was about submarines and I thought, crikey, Bernie R has seen me five and raised me ten because 'toin' or arse, isn't a million miles away from 'tonn' meaning sea wave. Don't tell me I have imagined the whole exchange and that you were simply improvising in a sort of Stanley Unwin style!
Brian, it's always great to hear from you, especially at this time of year.
The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
I think it might be useful to make an exhaustive list of album sleeves etc. featuring pictures of fireplaces.
Categorisation and in-depth analysis of the various fireplaces and their hidden meanings can be carried out at a later stage.
You start.
# Posted on December 5th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
"The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music "
Burning bodhrans, perhaps?
# Posted on December 5th 2011 by Johnny Jay
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Looks like a fireplace mantle in the background of The Star of Munster Trio.
# Posted on December 5th 2011 by fidkid
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Rather abstract and painterly but a fireplace is suggested in the background of the Molloy/Brady/Peoples album cover
# Posted on December 5th 2011 by fidkid
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Is this one hot enough for you?
http://www.dervish.ie/listen/playing-with-fire
# Posted on December 5th 2011 by Johnny Jay
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
I see more Cliffs of Moher than anything.
# Posted on December 5th 2011 by fidkid
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Here's the quintessential Irish music fireplace album cover, though:
http://www.amazon.com/Irish-Songs-Drinking-Rebellion-ClancyBrothers/dp/B000002NQ2/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1323107903&sr=1-1
# Posted on December 5th 2011 by fidkid
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
I'm sure we can do better than that fidkid. For one thing, that looks to me like a fireplace in a stately home, which the Clancy Brothers' and Tommy Makem's photographer has hired for the occasion. Whereas it ought rightly to appear to be either one of their own fireplaces or a fireplace in a homely bar where (it is suggested) they while away their days.
Secondly, these bold singers of songs of drinking and rebellion are are drinking OUT OF HALF PINT MUGS WITH HANDLES.
We can do a lot better than that.
# Posted on December 5th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Nil aon tintean mar do thintean fein.
# Posted on December 5th 2011 by sergeant fox
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
http://ceolalainn.blogspot.com/2009/10/julia-john-billy-clifford-star-of.html
This is/was the fireplace in The Favourite in London. I believe it was the practice to put the album sleeves from the patrons' most recent recordings on the mantel shelf. I've been trying for a long time to identify the two seen in this cover.
# Posted on December 5th 2011 by deeor
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4013/4503169482_9194c32742.jpg
# Posted on December 5th 2011 by MacCruiskeen
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Oddly enough, this has been discussed here
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/22879/comments
# Posted on December 5th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
I once remarked to a friend that the television seemed to have taken over from the fireplace as the focal point of the room. He said, "You do realize that focus is Latin for fireplace?" I hadn't realized, but I do now.
# Posted on December 5th 2011 by gam
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
This is a traditional Northumbrian fireplace.
Its role in trad was to work up an indomitable thirst.
I wonder what the girl in the front is thinking.
www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/folk/images/largerec/rantinglads_12ts297.jpg
# Posted on December 5th 2011 by nicholas
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Oh, bollox. Link doesn't work. It was rather a good one.
# Posted on December 5th 2011 by nicholas
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Aemon de Buitlear and Co. posed in front of a Georgian fireplace for an album cover. Does that count?
# Posted on December 5th 2011 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Is it these Ranting Lads Nicholas?
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51vZnYc9qjL._SS500_.jpg
# Posted on December 5th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
It counts against them I think Atahualpa.
# Posted on December 5th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Here are a few tunes titles that allude to fireplaces:
Pipe On the Hob
The Creel of Turf
Hag At the Kiln
Tongs by the Fire
Only slightly off topic...
# Posted on December 5th 2011 by fidkid
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Sgt. Fox, according to Google Translate that is an Icelandic proverb: "Every man loves the smell of his own farts".
# Posted on December 6th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
But let's get back to fireplaces. Lovers of fireplaces will greatly enjoy a visit inside the cover of Pat O'Connor and Eoghan O'Sullivan's enjoyable CD Conversation at the Crosses, which contains a substantial picture of an apparently genuine fiery log. I think this may be a cunning way of explaining to the listener why the recording is punctuated by crackling explosions and occasional startled yelps.
# Posted on December 6th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Eoghan O'Sullivan of course also appears on the obviously fireplace-influenced album "The Smoky Chimney", track 2 of which starts with the sound of somebody peeing into a saucepan, does anyone know why that should be?
# Posted on December 6th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
"Is it these Ranting Lads Nicholas?" (Bernie R.)
- It is, Bernie, it is!
# Posted on December 6th 2011 by nicholas
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
The role of the fireplace in traditional English cooking was established when King Alfred burnt the cakes.
# Posted on December 6th 2011 by nicholas
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
"Burning bodhrans, perhaps?"
Aw cmon, that would just be mean. Burning bodhran players, on the other hand...
# Posted on December 6th 2011 by Whiddler
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Bernie R, I believe the Icelandic saying you are referring to is, 'Nil aon toinn tinn mar do thoinn tinn fein.' New laptop - no idea how to do fadas yet.
# Posted on December 6th 2011 by sergeant fox
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
No, Sgt. Fox, in fact Google Translate says you have written: "There is no wave sick sick as your own submarine". I can see what you are getting at, but really it has very little to do with fireplaces.
# Posted on December 6th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Liz Carroll and Tommy Maguire LP from 1978 "Kiss Me Kate".
# Posted on December 6th 2011 by Tony O'Rourke
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/1552
# Posted on December 6th 2011 by Kenny
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
The Kiss Me Kate photo is magnificent. The humans take second place in the composition, with Liz Carroll forced by the photographer to sit uncomfortably on the beer-soaked floor, so that we can get a proper look at the fireplace.
# Posted on December 6th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
How do you tell from a photo that it was soaked with beer ? Just curious.
# Posted on December 6th 2011 by Kenny
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Don't let's get bogged down with details like that Kenny.
I haven't yet been able to inspect the Lucky In Love Charlie Lennon And Mick O'Connor fireplace illustration you suggested. If you can't find an online image, do you think you could do a quick sketch in crayon to give us an idea?
# Posted on December 6th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
I used to *have* a fireplace like the one in the "Kiss Me Kate" photo. When I moved in, one of the friends who helped me carry my stuff informed me that the correct name for that kind of brickwork was "a Jim Reeves job".
# Posted on December 6th 2011 by Jack Campin
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Thanks for the tip-off Jack.
http://www.nostalgiadirect.com/jim-reeves-have-i-told-you-lately-that-i-love-you-p4022/
# Posted on December 6th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Here's a nice pic, and great album:
http://www.mustrad.org.uk/reviews/mamacnam.htm
# Posted on December 6th 2011 by pennhorse
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
And Sessions From The Hearth, of course... http://www.amazon.com/Sessions-Hearth-National-Theatre-Ireland/dp/B0015FTY7E
# Posted on December 6th 2011 by Reverend
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
"Oddly enough, this has been discussed here
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/22879/comments";
Yes and McCruiskeen said he knew what they were but never divulged. Bluffing maybe?
# Posted on December 6th 2011 by deeor
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Good thing the reports of his death were exaggerated. Maybe he'll cough it up this time.
(I thought that he'd actually run a little contest on the subject before, but I didn't find that one...)
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: "Níl aon tinteán mar do thinteán féin"
Hi Bernie 29
Given the lack of fadas I thought I might come to the aid of Sgt. Fox.
"Níl aon tinteán mar do thinteán féin."
A literal translation is “There is no hearth/fireplace better than your own!”
So when this is used in a figurative sense with appropiate nuance, it becomes “There’s no place like home!”
I’d just add that many years ago, with some determined and gentle encouragement, Sgt. Fox guided me in those early stumbling days in my ambition to be able to converse “as gaelige”.
It’s been a slow process, especially as I don’t have anyone out here to converse with!
A Pól, mo chara dílis, go raibh míle maith agat!
All the best
Brian x
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by briantheflute
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
I knew that really Brian, just my little joke. I'd like to learn some gaelic myself, but it seems a daunting prospect, with the difficult grammar and the bizarre spelling/pronunciation.
How do you pronounce "Níl aon tinteán mar do thinteán féin"?
I guess the last word is "fane", like Shin Fane?
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Just out of interest I had a look through my small collection of Trad Albums and not one of them features a fireplace - Plenty of lakes, mountains, fields, a few gateways and the odd selection of instruments and players. My Scots collection is the same - plenty of Mountains, lakes, and castles. The Scots are also more inclined to feature instruments and pictures of the Band. However, accordionist William Starr is posing in front of a rather magnificent mahogany fireplace on the cover of his album 'The Daddy of them all'
The Favourite Pub Fireplace - I was playing for Tom and Kath McManamon in their pub The Mulberry Tree at Bromley by Bow, London in 1966. The pub was going to be demolished for a new dual carriageway and Tom moved to the Favourite Pub in Holloway. I also moved with him to play the box on a Saturday Night gig in the Favourite when he opened. Jimmy Power, Reg Hall and Jimmy's son Tommy started doing the Sunday morning gig and the rest is history. The Favourite pub was quite modern as pubs go. A saloon bar with a small stage where the musicians performed and a small public bar. All the action took place in the saloon bar. Sorry to say I can't remember a fireplace, nor can my wife who worked part time behind the bar of the Favourite in those days. I'm wondering if there was one in the public bar?
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by Free Reed
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Randall Bays has a picture of himself sitting in front of a fireplace on his Out Of the Woods CD. He looks quite uncomfortable, like he'd really like this photo session to be done now.
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
I seem to remember seeing an album by the John Ellis Scottish Country Dance Band [ I think ] called "Fire In The Kilt" ! Who would have volunteered to be in that photo ?
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by Kenny
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
I bought a mandolin a while ago on eBay (listed in good condition) which when it arrived from Fermanagh looked like it had been hanging up in a fireplace as it was all burned down one side. It had an auction lot number stuck on it so obviously had failed to sell. The action was about a half inch high. It was a laughably horrible instrument and cost me £26 plus postage (serves me right for expecting a bargain). It crossed my mind to relist it as "beautiful flamed tonewood" but I sold it for a fiver to someone to hang up as decoration (in his fireplace, probably).
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by RichardB
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Burning my buns off when it's to my backside!
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by Fiddlechick7
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Dear Bernie R and Brian,
Now I'm really confused! Bernie R I thought that you were executing a series of wonderfully deft puns on my Irish sayings. Don't tell me that what I thought was a couple of wonderful bilingual parries from you was all in my head?! When I first posted 'Nil aon thintean mar do thintean fein' I was indeed innocently saying, 'There's no hearth like your own hearth' or as Brian says, 'There's no place like home'. Then you replied with your 'Google translate Icelandic' about everyman loving the smell of his own farts. I thought you were alluding to a spoof on the above proverb that my dad, a fluent Irish speaker used to quote, i.e. 'Nil aon toin tinn mar do thoin tinn fein', literally 'There's no sick arse like your own sick arse'. Your response to that was about submarines and I thought, crikey, Bernie R has seen me five and raised me ten because 'toin' or arse, isn't a million miles away from 'tonn' meaning sea wave. Don't tell me I have imagined the whole exchange and that you were simply improvising in a sort of Stanley Unwin style!
Brian, it's always great to hear from you, especially at this time of year.
Paul
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by sergeant fox
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Hi Bernie!
I'd suggest using ordinary English as a guide
Kneel ane tin-tawn more doe (as in deer) hin-tawn fane.
I’ve tried to help give some rhythm by accentuating in the appropriate places.
All the best
Brian x
Oops! Looks like underlines and bold don't translate here! B x
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by briantheflute
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
Yes, this is a Burning Question.
Laurence
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by fauxcelt
Re: The Role of the Fireplace in Traditional Irish Music
If I had some matches, I could light it so it would start burning.
Laurence
# Posted on December 7th 2011 by fauxcelt