I'm curious about how other B/C box players came up with their ideal strap configurations. Watching other good players I've seen every imaginable configuration of one and two straps, long straps, short straps, far left positioning, center positioning.
I'm using one strap myself going back and forth adding and removing extensions trying to decide if the far right position (keyboard centered on the left side of my torso with the bellows fairly far left) is better the a more centered position where the keyboard is more or less centered on my chest with a slight left leaning angle so gravity can help with the bellows.
Right now finding that the somewhat more centered position seems more balanced overall and is more comfortable when playing higher up on the keyboard. At least that's today's observation. The box is a Saltarelle Irish Bouebe 23-button, fairly small and light.
I'm guessing I'm not the first box player to have to figure out an ideal strap arrangement based on their physique and arm/finger length, would appreciate hearing what others have gone through with determining their ideal strap setup and the tradeoffs they've encountered.
I never really thought about it much. Just started playing. Left strap only. I think I probably adjusted the length at some point, but it wasn't really a big issue.
My main innovation was setting the case nearby, so I can raise up my right knee, to serve as a sort of baffle in a loud session. Helps me hear better without playing too hard. Also useful if I need a stable place to put a pint. (sometimes the table gets a bit jumpy when you get a few people stomping their feet)
Started out with one. Did not think about it one way or the other. But then, at the point what did I know.
My teacher moved me to 2 straps about the same general configuration and length (maybe a bit tighter) than for a PA. That gives you much better control of the treble side of the box.
I still play with one strap from time to time if I am using someone else's box. But the two straps have become very comfortable
I am a two strap guy myself. Box strapped fairly tightly in the center of my chest. Much less strain on the right arm, and especially the thumb, when compared to using a single strap. I have long had problems with my right shoulder.
The problem is, despite my best efforts to avoid irritating the shoulder, I am currently in physical therapy, and unable to play without setting myself back in my recovery, because of a combination of degenerative arthritis in my neck, severe tendonitis in my superspinatus muscle (which I didn't even know I had until a few months ago) and rotator cuff problems.
I am playing for an hour tomorrow for a holiday season concert, but once that is over, I am afraid I have to take a couple of months off from playing.
Which, as those of you who love The Music know, is not a happy situation at all.
Both James Keane (always) and John Whelan (at least those times I paid attention to it) use two straps.
James Keane even modified his straps so he can fasten them on his back as well for additional stability.
Less strain on the thumb, also less strain on your left arm as you don't have to reach out to the left that much in a more centered position.
Heike, do you use dual straps when you play your Saltarelle? I had considered that but it felt like it would put too much strain on my right shoulder to have my hand that far to the right.
Just for a lark I tried dual straps for the first time and I really like how it stabilizes the instrument and takes the tension out of the right thumb and hand. Takes a bit of getting used to, but I think this is the solution I've been looking for.
Right now, because of my neck/shoulder problems, I am not playing anything for a while. Once I feel a bit better, I imagine that harmonica and then whistle will become possible. Then box. Guitar strumming, however, may be months away.
One other advantage of two straps is that you can play standing up, which sometimes is called for when performing, or handy in a crowded pub until a seat becomes available.
so many ways of holding the instrument.... i use a thumb strap when playing one-row melodeon, which allows me to use the right arm as well as the left for the bellows- a lot of push-pull...
for my other box (a 3-row 18 bass), I use 2 straps, more comfortable, and i tend more and more to have the thumb "in the air" rather than on the side of the keyboard : less tension. Most of the one strap guys I saw can only play sitting down : to avoid tension on the thumb, they kind of block the box on the left leg.. or they play like Mairtin O'Connor, with the thumb behind the keyboa(not those of Mairtin, but he's been playing like that since childhood, probably, and is just so used to it....).
Shoulder problems come very often from a bad position of the whole back whilst playing (it's a common discussion on chromatic boxes forums) :when you ahng your box on your shoulder, with 2 straps, you tend naturally to counteract the weight by arching the byck towards the back, and kind of squeezing your shoulderblades together, and that creates tensions, that hurt aftrer some time (I'm speaking by experience...). I learnt - and I teach my pupils that way - to try to open the shoulderblades, and relax as often as possible the muscles in the neck and shoulders. When you get used to it, it's much more comfortable, and I observed that my bellow control is far better... Hope you get better,Al... it's sooo frustrating when you can't play because ti hurts too much...
arg.... part of my post disappeared : after "play like Mairtin O'Conner, with the thumb behund the keyboard" was supposed to say "i ound it hinders a bit the dexterity of the fingers"... and then the part about Mairtin's fingers... and boy do I get dysorthographic on computer keyboards...
Thanks, Nikita, I will give your advice a try, it sounds like you are describing some of the trouble I have been having, so I bet your solution will be helpful.
the bottom line is this: anything goes, with the outer limit being, does it hinder phrasing, speed, articulation, accuracy, etc.? and it is true, that some of the folks who are working out a strap arrangement that "suits them" are not being honest with themselves about the fact that they have chosen an arrangement that DOES hinder in some way. one sees this with fiddler learners at times, too. but short of that, it is 100% completely up to you, and orthodoxies be demned.
which brings me to this caveat: there ARE orthodoxies about this, at least in the irish world. and they are pretty comical, but you can't laugh in the workshop, because it is impolite. if you go to b/c workshops and/or classes led by irish master musicians, it is absolutely a fact that you will hear this one breathe fire while badgering everybody to set the thing way over to one side using one strap, and tilt it slightly forward. they will insist that this is "the" way to achieve optimal virtuosity, etc., and the centered two-strap way is nonsense, etc., and assorted ones will even bloviate about how many Senior AI titles they've won and how many "champions" they've trained, blah, blah, blah.
then, at another workshop led by another wonderful master box player, you will see that one breathe fire while badgering everybody to use two straps and center the box, or more-or-less center it. that one will INSIST this is "THE" way to do it, and that the to-the-side method is nonsense, etc., and assorted ones from this contingent will also bloviate about how many Senior AI's they've won, and how many "champions" they've trained, and blah, blah, blah.
i don't know why it is, but this seems to be more a phenom among b/c box players than any other instrument group. there is a lot of insecurity among accordionists because of the old box stigma, and the CHAMPION, "THE" way thing is much stronger in this group.....
every now and then, you will get the rare treasure who says, this is what works for me, but bottom line, it is your decision short of doing something that hinders the playing......
your role when faced with the "my way is THE way" characters is not to argue with the person, not because everything that comes out of their mouth is gospel, but because we're there to enjoy and benefit from input from a wonderful master player. later, bien sur, you will think over what they've said and then "take what you like and leave the rest"......make your own decision about what's right for you, and continue on your merry way......
I use 2 straps + backstrap because I play standing up quite a lot, and because the arrangement is best for me
when I began playing B/C (seated) I sat the keyboard on my right thigh, but over time I've shortened the left hand strap and lengthened the right until at the present time the thing sits on my left thigh and the keyboard sits over the midline of my chest.
With the box in this position, seated or standing, the fingers, hand and forearm can form a stright line which probably puts least stress on tendons
from time to time I can get pain in any part of my right hand side but it seems to pass and doesn't interfere with playing.
B/C Box Strapping
B/C Box Strapping
I'm curious about how other B/C box players came up with their ideal strap configurations. Watching other good players I've seen every imaginable configuration of one and two straps, long straps, short straps, far left positioning, center positioning.
The box is a Saltarelle Irish Bouebe 23-button, fairly small and light.
I'm using one strap myself going back and forth adding and removing extensions trying to decide if the far right position (keyboard centered on the left side of my torso with the bellows fairly far left) is better the a more centered position where the keyboard is more or less centered on my chest with a slight left leaning angle so gravity can help with the bellows.
Right now finding that the somewhat more centered position seems more balanced overall and is more comfortable when playing higher up on the keyboard. At least that's today's observation.
I'm guessing I'm not the first box player to have to figure out an ideal strap arrangement based on their physique and arm/finger length, would appreciate hearing what others have gone through with determining their ideal strap setup and the tradeoffs they've encountered.
# Posted on December 2nd 2011 by Michael Eskin
Re: B/C Box Strapping
I never really thought about it much. Just started playing. Left strap only. I think I probably adjusted the length at some point, but it wasn't really a big issue.
My main innovation was setting the case nearby, so I can raise up my right knee, to serve as a sort of baffle in a loud session. Helps me hear better without playing too hard. Also useful if I need a stable place to put a pint. (sometimes the table gets a bit jumpy when you get a few people stomping their feet)
# Posted on December 2nd 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: B/C Box Strapping
Jon, you use a single strap over your left shoulder?
# Posted on December 2nd 2011 by Michael Eskin
Re: B/C Box Strapping
You put your pint on your knee? That's what I call confidence.
# Posted on December 2nd 2011 by fen slodger
Re: B/C Box Strapping
Started out with one. Did not think about it one way or the other. But then, at the point what did I know.
My teacher moved me to 2 straps about the same general configuration and length (maybe a bit tighter) than for a PA. That gives you much better control of the treble side of the box.
I still play with one strap from time to time if I am using someone else's box. But the two straps have become very comfortable
# Posted on December 3rd 2011 by zippydw
Re: B/C Box Strapping
"Jon, you use a single strap over your left shoulder?"
No, sorry. Momentary bout of working distracted my attention away. (It passed, I'm better now) Right shoulder, of course.
# Posted on December 3rd 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: B/C Box Strapping
I am a two strap guy myself. Box strapped fairly tightly in the center of my chest. Much less strain on the right arm, and especially the thumb, when compared to using a single strap. I have long had problems with my right shoulder.
The problem is, despite my best efforts to avoid irritating the shoulder, I am currently in physical therapy, and unable to play without setting myself back in my recovery, because of a combination of degenerative arthritis in my neck, severe tendonitis in my superspinatus muscle (which I didn't even know I had until a few months ago) and rotator cuff problems.
I am playing for an hour tomorrow for a holiday season concert, but once that is over, I am afraid I have to take a couple of months off from playing.
Which, as those of you who love The Music know, is not a happy situation at all.
# Posted on December 3rd 2011 by AlBrown
Re: B/C Box Strapping
Both James Keane (always) and John Whelan (at least those times I paid attention to it) use two straps.
James Keane even modified his straps so he can fasten them on his back as well for additional stability.
Less strain on the thumb, also less strain on your left arm as you don't have to reach out to the left that much in a more centered position.
# Posted on December 3rd 2011 by heike
Re: B/C Box Strapping
Heike, do you use dual straps when you play your Saltarelle? I had considered that but it felt like it would put too much strain on my right shoulder to have my hand that far to the right.
# Posted on December 3rd 2011 by Michael Eskin
Re: B/C Box Strapping
I'm amazed by the one strap players who can perch the box way out on the far left leg and have it tilted away from themselves -
I'm playing with the 2 smallest size Saltarelle straps and it's working pretty good for me right now -bought them used from buttonbox
# Posted on December 3rd 2011 by Reeds Munson
Re: B/C Box Strapping
Al - can you use the time to work on your tin whistle playing?
# Posted on December 3rd 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: B/C Box Strapping
Best of luck, Al. I hope your recovery goes well. And quickly.
# Posted on December 3rd 2011 by NewToItAll
Re: B/C Box Strapping
And the prize goes to Heike!
Just for a lark I tried dual straps for the first time and I really like how it stabilizes the instrument and takes the tension out of the right thumb and hand. Takes a bit of getting used to, but I think this is the solution I've been looking for.
# Posted on December 3rd 2011 by Michael Eskin
Re: B/C Box Strapping
Also, AlBrown, thanks!
# Posted on December 3rd 2011 by Michael Eskin
Re: B/C Box Strapping
and Reeds Munson.
# Posted on December 3rd 2011 by Michael Eskin
Re: B/C Box Strapping
Jock Straps
# Posted on December 3rd 2011 by gooseinthenettles
Re: B/C Box Strapping
Right now, because of my neck/shoulder problems, I am not playing anything for a while. Once I feel a bit better, I imagine that harmonica and then whistle will become possible. Then box. Guitar strumming, however, may be months away.
One other advantage of two straps is that you can play standing up, which sometimes is called for when performing, or handy in a crowded pub until a seat becomes available.
# Posted on December 3rd 2011 by AlBrown
Re: B/C Box Strapping
gooseinthenettles, Is a Jock strap something Scottish box players use?
# Posted on December 3rd 2011 by AlBrown
Re: B/C Box Strapping
so many ways of holding the instrument.... i use a thumb strap when playing one-row melodeon, which allows me to use the right arm as well as the left for the bellows- a lot of push-pull...
for my other box (a 3-row 18 bass), I use 2 straps, more comfortable, and i tend more and more to have the thumb "in the air" rather than on the side of the keyboard : less tension. Most of the one strap guys I saw can only play sitting down : to avoid tension on the thumb, they kind of block the box on the left leg.. or they play like Mairtin O'Connor, with the thumb behind the keyboa(not those of Mairtin, but he's been playing like that since childhood, probably, and is just so used to it....).
Shoulder problems come very often from a bad position of the whole back whilst playing (it's a common discussion on chromatic boxes forums) :when you ahng your box on your shoulder, with 2 straps, you tend naturally to counteract the weight by arching the byck towards the back, and kind of squeezing your shoulderblades together, and that creates tensions, that hurt aftrer some time (I'm speaking by experience...). I learnt - and I teach my pupils that way - to try to open the shoulderblades, and relax as often as possible the muscles in the neck and shoulders. When you get used to it, it's much more comfortable, and I observed that my bellow control is far better... Hope you get better,Al... it's sooo frustrating when you can't play because ti hurts too much...
# Posted on December 3rd 2011 by Nikita Pfister
Re: B/C Box Strapping
arg.... part of my post disappeared : after "play like Mairtin O'Conner, with the thumb behund the keyboard" was supposed to say "i ound it hinders a bit the dexterity of the fingers"... and then the part about Mairtin's fingers... and boy do I get dysorthographic on computer keyboards...
# Posted on December 3rd 2011 by Nikita Pfister
Re: B/C Box Strapping
Thanks, Nikita, I will give your advice a try, it sounds like you are describing some of the trouble I have been having, so I bet your solution will be helpful.
# Posted on December 3rd 2011 by AlBrown
Re: B/C Box Strapping
the bottom line is this: anything goes, with the outer limit being, does it hinder phrasing, speed, articulation, accuracy, etc.? and it is true, that some of the folks who are working out a strap arrangement that "suits them" are not being honest with themselves about the fact that they have chosen an arrangement that DOES hinder in some way. one sees this with fiddler learners at times, too. but short of that, it is 100% completely up to you, and orthodoxies be demned.
which brings me to this caveat: there ARE orthodoxies about this, at least in the irish world. and they are pretty comical, but you can't laugh in the workshop, because it is impolite. if you go to b/c workshops and/or classes led by irish master musicians, it is absolutely a fact that you will hear this one breathe fire while badgering everybody to set the thing way over to one side using one strap, and tilt it slightly forward. they will insist that this is "the" way to achieve optimal virtuosity, etc., and the centered two-strap way is nonsense, etc., and assorted ones will even bloviate about how many Senior AI titles they've won and how many "champions" they've trained, blah, blah, blah.
then, at another workshop led by another wonderful master box player, you will see that one breathe fire while badgering everybody to use two straps and center the box, or more-or-less center it. that one will INSIST this is "THE" way to do it, and that the to-the-side method is nonsense, etc., and assorted ones from this contingent will also bloviate about how many Senior AI's they've won, and how many "champions" they've trained, and blah, blah, blah.
i don't know why it is, but this seems to be more a phenom among b/c box players than any other instrument group. there is a lot of insecurity among accordionists because of the old box stigma, and the CHAMPION, "THE" way thing is much stronger in this group.....
every now and then, you will get the rare treasure who says, this is what works for me, but bottom line, it is your decision short of doing something that hinders the playing......
your role when faced with the "my way is THE way" characters is not to argue with the person, not because everything that comes out of their mouth is gospel, but because we're there to enjoy and benefit from input from a wonderful master player. later, bien sur, you will think over what they've said and then "take what you like and leave the rest"......make your own decision about what's right for you, and continue on your merry way......
# Posted on December 3rd 2011 by ceemonster
Re: B/C Box Strapping
John Williams is a big proponent of 2 also
It has helped the tendonitis issues. But mine must not have been as bad as Al's
mine went away in about 6 months
# Posted on December 4th 2011 by zippydw
Re: B/C Box Strapping
I use 2 straps + backstrap because I play standing up quite a lot, and because the arrangement is best for me
when I began playing B/C (seated) I sat the keyboard on my right thigh, but over time I've shortened the left hand strap and lengthened the right until at the present time the thing sits on my left thigh and the keyboard sits over the midline of my chest.
With the box in this position, seated or standing, the fingers, hand and forearm can form a stright line which probably puts least stress on tendons
from time to time I can get pain in any part of my right hand side but it seems to pass and doesn't interfere with playing.
# Posted on December 4th 2011 by millionyears_bc