They won't be cheap. Actually, to correct that, as something similar has been used before, they aren't any cheaper by modern instrument standards, handmade or mass produced, starting with the basic cost of materials...
"When we make the violin we copy the changes that have occurred over more than 300 years including the shifts in the wood - the small deformations in the front and back plates that occur over time because of the forces of the strings and the other parts of the violin."
I question this wisdom, as the wood will, from this point onwards, continue to move and change and become something different in all respects...
I'm drawn to that article simply because they chose the Betts Strad as a model. My own #1 fiddle is a copy of the Betts Strad. But mine was made almost 200 years ago, by a journeyman in Thomas Betts' workshop. The guy who made mine would have had access to the original Strad, and all Betts' internal measurements and graduation maps made by physical measurement while the Strad was opened up for bass-barring. All those accurate physical measurements are still available to anyone wanting to copy that instrument (as are measurements and graduation maps for practically every other important fiddle). So what information do they get from a CAT scan that isn't already available?
In the past I've had lutes X-rayed to find out about their internal structure and thicknesses, but that was because the instruments could not be opened up. Every fiddle has it's front taken off now and again, and when the front is off you can physically measure anything you want. So what do you gain from a CAT scan? (Apart from publicity?)
Yeah, density graduations. You can get pretty much the same information by counting the growth rings per cm. And you'll come to pretty much the same conclusion - that you can't make an accurate reproduction Strad because you can't get Silver Spruce of the sapme density that the old masters used in today's warmer climate. Roll on global warming and the next mini ice-age.
For me the tap-tuners like Zygmuntowicz have the right idea - forget about absolute measurements and concentrate on putting together components that have the same tonal qualities as the original.
Sam's the man in my books too, but I'd already let that slip. However, I am interested in those fine details, but as skreech so wisely says, it tells us more about the materials and practices of the time and where wood is concerned, we have to make do with what we've got. Dendrochronology is like fingerprinting, no two tops, back or sides will ever be the same, unless of course we use carbon fibre, but even there...
I had the good fortune once to play The Connaughtman's Rambles on a 1680 Stradivarius. Sounded ok under my ear, but not like angelic choirs joining in or anything. Very possible that I was not able to get from it everything it had to give. Ya think?
Brian MacNeil had something about this is one of his novels about the busking detective, who found someone had substituted a Strad for his fiddle in his case after a fracas with the police somewhere foreign. Perhaps based on personal experience he said that it was good for some stuff, but unresponsive to other sorts of tunes ( can't remember which without reference ). Still, a good fiddle is a good fiddle. I'd heard that also having volcanic dust in the varnish from a recent eruption, and boiling the wood in salt water to guard against woodworm, were also explanations offered to help account for the particular qualities of the Strad.
That's how those top notch luthiers, like Sam, started. It's a lifelong apprenticeship to the roots of the tradition, with the want to further both understanding and the quality of the end product...
That respect, and the activity of copying, never seem to go. I can't think of any of the top makers who don't continue with both developing their own way with the form, while still enjoying research and copying the masters, the closest they can ever get to an apprenticeship with those masters. It's a lovely passion I appreciate and respect...
Okay, so, other than respect and education, lifelong apprenticeship, roots of the tradition, quality of the product, enjoying research and lovely passion [...the roads, the aqueducts...], what’s the point, eh? Ha!
Beware ! of Cheep fiddles soon - lol.
Beware ! of Cheep fiddles soon - lol.
Now everyone, soon can have a Strad : )
jim,,,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15926864
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by FIDDLE4
Re: Beware ! of Cheep fiddles soon - lol.
They won't be cheap. Actually, to correct that, as something similar has been used before, they aren't any cheaper by modern instrument standards, handmade or mass produced, starting with the basic cost of materials...
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by ceolachan
The BBC is late again, digging up old news...
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by ceolachan
"When we make the violin we copy the changes that have occurred over more than 300 years including the shifts in the wood - the small deformations in the front and back plates that occur over time because of the forces of the strings and the other parts of the violin."
I question this wisdom, as the wood will, from this point onwards, continue to move and change and become something different in all respects...
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by ceolachan
Yes! Beware!!!
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by ceolachan
Steve Russow - luthier
http://www.steverossow.com/
Re-creating the Betts - CT Scans to CNC Replicas
http://www.steverossow.com/violin-ct-scan-cnc.php
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by ceolachan
Re: Beware ! of Cheep fiddles soon - lol.
I wonder if they could do me a new brain....
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by Rudall the time
Samuel Zygmuntowicz - luthier & writer on this subject
How To CAT-Scan (And Hot-Rod) A Stradivarius
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=96708334
Dear Sam Zygmuntowicz quoted in the BBC article, now there's a fine maker who knows his stuff...
Putting the hear into it ~
a profile of violin maker sam zygmuntowicz in his brooklyn workshop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awUssXVo6Sk
http://artistled.com/Biographies/Samuel_Zygmuntowicz.htm
http://www.americanwaymag.com/sam-zygmuntowicz-famed-17th-century-violin-maker-emerson-string-quartet
How To Make A $50,000 Violin
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0413/081-luxury-instruments-maestro.html
An Interview with Sam Zygmuntowicz
http://www.violinist.com/blog/laurie/20074/6777/
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by ceolachan
Re: Beware ! of Cheep fiddles soon - lol.
I'm drawn to that article simply because they chose the Betts Strad as a model. My own #1 fiddle is a copy of the Betts Strad. But mine was made almost 200 years ago, by a journeyman in Thomas Betts' workshop. The guy who made mine would have had access to the original Strad, and all Betts' internal measurements and graduation maps made by physical measurement while the Strad was opened up for bass-barring. All those accurate physical measurements are still available to anyone wanting to copy that instrument (as are measurements and graduation maps for practically every other important fiddle). So what information do they get from a CAT scan that isn't already available?
In the past I've had lutes X-rayed to find out about their internal structure and thicknesses, but that was because the instruments could not be opened up. Every fiddle has it's front taken off now and again, and when the front is off you can physically measure anything you want. So what do you gain from a CAT scan? (Apart from publicity?)
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by skreech
Density gradations... But I'd rather have your fiddle...
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by ceolachan
Re: Beware ! of Cheep fiddles soon - lol.
Yeah, density graduations. You can get pretty much the same information by counting the growth rings per cm. And you'll come to pretty much the same conclusion - that you can't make an accurate reproduction Strad because you can't get Silver Spruce of the sapme density that the old masters used in today's warmer climate. Roll on global warming and the next mini ice-age.
For me the tap-tuners like Zygmuntowicz have the right idea - forget about absolute measurements and concentrate on putting together components that have the same tonal qualities as the original.
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by skreech
Re: Beware ! of Cheep fiddles soon - lol.
Skreech, I agree. Sam Zygmuntowicz's comment at the end of the news item was very revealing.
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by Trevor Jennings
Dendrochronology
Sam's the man in my books too, but I'd already let that slip. However, I am interested in those fine details, but as skreech so wisely says, it tells us more about the materials and practices of the time and where wood is concerned, we have to make do with what we've got. Dendrochronology is like fingerprinting, no two tops, back or sides will ever be the same, unless of course we use carbon fibre, but even there...
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by ceolachan
Re: Beware ! of Cheep fiddles soon - lol.
I wonder what the scanner said about the varnish, which is a key component in a fine violin. I doubt much.
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by Jmbu
Varnish on and varnish off ~
Yes, that too!
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by ceolachan
Graduations in density work both ways, are three dimensional... Every fragment of information takes our understanding forward...
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by ceolachan
Re: Beware ! of Cheep fiddles soon - lol.
Cheep fiddles go chirpy chirpy cheep cheep
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by nicholas
Re: Beware ! of Cheep fiddles soon - lol.
Ooooo-ee!
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by ethical blend
Re: Beware ! of Cheep fiddles soon - lol.
Yes I reckon the Del Boy's of this world are more the one's to Beware of !
Selling them for something it's not, etc..
Rudall the time < a new brain....>
I tried that twice, didn't work for me .. lol.
jim,,,
# Posted on November 30th 2011 by FIDDLE4
Re: Beware ! of Cheep fiddles soon - lol.
I was sent this from a dear friend, I'll put it here just in case you want to hear/see the real thing...
jim,,,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1by4dB4azY&feature=player_embedded#!
# Posted on November 30th 2011 by FIDDLE4
Re: Beware ! of Cheep fiddles soon - lol.
I had the good fortune once to play The Connaughtman's Rambles on a 1680 Stradivarius. Sounded ok under my ear, but not like angelic choirs joining in or anything. Very possible that I was not able to get from it everything it had to give. Ya think?
# Posted on November 30th 2011 by fidkid
Re: Beware ! of Cheep fiddles soon - lol.
Brian MacNeil had something about this is one of his novels about the busking detective, who found someone had substituted a Strad for his fiddle in his case after a fracas with the police somewhere foreign. Perhaps based on personal experience he said that it was good for some stuff, but unresponsive to other sorts of tunes ( can't remember which without reference ). Still, a good fiddle is a good fiddle. I'd heard that also having volcanic dust in the varnish from a recent eruption, and boiling the wood in salt water to guard against woodworm, were also explanations offered to help account for the particular qualities of the Strad.
# Posted on November 30th 2011 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Beware ! of Cheep fiddles soon - lol.
Using pumice for finishing, and storing the wood over an open latrine...
# Posted on November 30th 2011 by ceolachan
Re: Beware ! of Cheep fiddles soon - lol.
Time to watch The Red Violin again?
But
"To do this they took more than 1,000 CAT scan images from the original instrument ..."
Some human subjects have to wait a while for ONE CT scan!
# Posted on November 30th 2011 by oldstrings
Re: Beware ! of Cheep fiddles soon - lol.
What’s the point of such precise copying, when practically nobody can tell the difference between a Strad and a modern top-notch luthier’s work?
# Posted on November 30th 2011 by Bob himself
The respect and education in copying
That's how those top notch luthiers, like Sam, started. It's a lifelong apprenticeship to the roots of the tradition, with the want to further both understanding and the quality of the end product...
# Posted on November 30th 2011 by ceolachan
That respect, and the activity of copying, never seem to go. I can't think of any of the top makers who don't continue with both developing their own way with the form, while still enjoying research and copying the masters, the closest they can ever get to an apprenticeship with those masters. It's a lovely passion I appreciate and respect...
# Posted on November 30th 2011 by ceolachan
"Violin Maker: Finding a Centuries-old Tradition in a Brooklyn Workshop"
- about Sam Zygmuntowicz and a 'copy' - by John Marchese
# Posted on November 30th 2011 by ceolachan
Re: Beware ! of Cheep fiddles soon - lol.
Okay, so, other than respect and education, lifelong apprenticeship, roots of the tradition, quality of the product, enjoying research and lovely passion [...the roads, the aqueducts...], what’s the point, eh? Ha!
# Posted on November 30th 2011 by Bob himself
FUN!!!
# Posted on December 1st 2011 by ceolachan
Sweet joyous celebration...
# Posted on December 1st 2011 by ceolachan
To craft out the singing voice of a dryad...
# Posted on December 1st 2011 by ceolachan
Re: Beware ! of Cheep fiddles soon - lol.
Dryad - I had to look that up. You learn something every day, if you're not careful.
# Posted on December 1st 2011 by Bob himself
Trapped in the wild woods ~ Darby O'Gill
Yes, I've been a prisoner and slave of the sidh for a long time...
# Posted on December 1st 2011 by ceolachan