From a most-likely-well-intentioned "guide to session etiquette", found on this site:
"Clapping and "whooping" are perfectly ok as long as you clap when they're at the end of the set of tunes and don't scare them or throw them off with your "whoops".
Musicians usually appreciate these displays because it means you are listening and enjoying the music."
Is it just me, or does this read like something you'd find posted on a cage at the zoo?
"Mummy, look, what's that one doing?"
"Oh, darling, he's playing an accordion. You don't see that very much any more. Poor thing, so noble and majestic... it's a shame to see them caged up like this, but I suppose it's for the best. Now, they're coming to the end of the tune, let's whoop a little to encourage them, like it says on the sign"
Sometimes the whooping and clapping comes from a never seen before drunk guy, who early on seems ok, then he ends up trying to buy everyone drinks, and tries to chat up any female session member who foolishly sat too close to the outer edge, by then you realize he's actually extremely drunk. That guy should have gone home early and just left us with a thumbs up.
We do appreciate people listening and enjoying the music, it's just we're not too over-demonstrative ourselves, and find the enthusiastic audience a bit trying after a while.
No 1 Son, who has both attitude and problems, sometimes accompanies us to the pub, although he insists that he hates folk music ( has been known to put his fingers in his ears if I sing ). Then he sits in another part of the bar, and is often the only person clapping at the end of a set.
I don't know about the zoo analogy, but there's a jazz analogy: at jazz clubs the etiquette consists of aplauding at the end of each solo... shows the band you're listening and appreciating.
There's a big crane driver called Eugene who frequents the Wig Museum who can 'whoop' loudly and unexpectedly enough to make us jump.
But he only scares us when he regales us with his 'working on the railways' stories.
"That guy was partly responsible for the drink sales that night. He's the reason most sessions are welcome by the proprietor."
I'm glad there are still pubs that simply support the music, and sessions that play the tunes for the sake of playing the tunes, not to entertain the punters.
"I'm glad there are still pubs that simply support the music,"
You won't find many pubs that put the session musicians before the sales of drinks in this part of the world IME, Will.
Especially in the present climate. Glad there seems to be some in your neck of the woods.
I don't know if it's worth pointing out that the post was about the "guide to etiquette" and not the actual behavior of the audience.
Probably not. Don't know why I bother, honestly.
I love a good whoop from the pub crowd, especially if it comes at some random moment in a set, and is delivered in a slurred intoxicated mish-mash of gibberish. But my favorite, is the random non-sequitur holler, like the time a guy blurted out "Soylent Green is made out of PEOPLE!" during a set of tunes - and then ran out of the pub.
"at jazz clubs the etiquette consists of aplauding at the end of each solo... shows the band you're listening and appreciating".
ITM equivalent is the "whoop" of appreciation at a good tune change, especially at ceilidh band competitions.
"Is it just me, or does this read like something you'd find posted on a cage at the zoo? "
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
I've never paid for a beer when I've been playing at a session... # Posted on November 21st 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
If you were provided with free peanuts would the connection be clearer ?
"Of course I didn't. Did you read the bit that I quoted? Do you really want to read more of that?" Well, if you quote something, it's usually a good idea to name the source. I'm not surprised your class lost interest and decided to suggest where etiquette might be improved in other areas. After all, it didn't really start off too seriously. To paraphrase someone else: Why the outrage?
Whooping is great in the middle of the tune. It shows that the person enjoys and appreciates the tune and the music. I find it very encouraging. I would much rather have that rather than someone not even listening and making loud noises which I find much more distracting. The other players also enjoy the whooping and claps as well. I don't think any of us oppose them at all.
"You won't find many pubs that put the session musicians before the sales of drinks in this part of the world "
Try the Herschel Arms in Slough, Weejie. The proprietor turns over the (somewhat small) saloon bar to the session and keeps food and drinks flowing to the musicians and sometimes others, leaving (I presume) the public bar to look after paying the rent.
Pretty good session when I was there.
Not really in this part of the world. However, if it was down to a choice between paying customers and playing musicians, I think I know what the out come would be.
I think a book saying "session etiquette is doing (insert specific instruction here) is always going to be wrong for someone's session, as each one has different conventions and expectations.
I couldn't care less if people clap after a set of tunes. Beats them attempting to clap "in time" while you're playing!
The SF Irish social clubs bought land across from Fleishhacker Zoo to build "The United Irish Cultural Center." A number of expats used to quip that the name failed on at least three counts. What's more, some of the particularly bitter expats used to call it "the Hiberniate House of the zoo."
Not so much outrage as bewilderment on my part. It just struck me as a very peculiar sort of a thing - to have to tell people when and how they ought to respond to the music in a pub. It's a little like reading a guide to stadium concerts, and finding a passage about when one is expected to hold up a cigarette lighter. You start from "why does this document even exist?" and just move along from there.
"I think a book saying "session etiquette is doing (insert specific instruction here) is always going to be wrong for someone's session, as each one has different conventions and expectations."
There's the practical objection. Then there's also the aesthetic objection, which you either get or you don't. And if you don't get that, I'm not sure it's explainable, any more than I can explain why that one melody in Shostakovich's Em piano trio grabs me.
Somehow, I doubt that most people who play in pubs, surrounded by noise, clattering dishes and conversation (not to mention occasional mayhem), are going to be scared or thrown off their game by "whoops," no matter how enthusiastic.
I've always thought that the whole concept of "session etiquette" was a load of balls because any scenario that it could possibly cover would, automatically, be also covered by bog standard every day politeness.
However, the caveat to that, that this thread has shed light upon, is the oft nonsensical nature of the specifics of what is impolite or polite within cultural contexts. Like burping in Arabia - to quote the classic example.
But it is though, quite straight forward to deal with. One allows someone from outwith the culture to make as many session etiquette mistakes as they can muster. But red cards should be given to those who should know better.
How about when the clapping, whooping etc comes from the other players?
I can understand the "Hup" or "Hep" just before a key change or a new tune but I've encountered some quite bizarre and sometimes off putting behaviour in some places
Ah, I see one of the experts here on all things Irish trad has stumbled onto something I posted for our local to be linked to the pub's website. It was intended as a guide for people visiting that particular pub in hopes of possibly thwarting problems that we were experiencing with both musicians and punters, and it has served the pub quite well based on how the experience has developed over the years. I don't know if it is at all on account of the guide, but it doesn't seem to have made things worse... so I keep it linked.
The part you are discussing was in response to occasions when people would express their delight, (or intoxication), in a way that was disruptive; they would stand or sit nearby clapping along loudly and off-beat, cheer loudly and randomly, and make demands, sometimes after buying a round and feeling entitled. As a host of many sessions there and as the organizer of sessions, I was asked if anything could be done... and this was my response.
The idea for the spelling, "Seisiún," was the publican's idea; he's from Belfast and has owned the pub since 1975. He supports the sessions at his pub because he loves the music... not because he reaps anything financially from having it. Often we are entertaining ourselves late into the night and the only complaints might come from frustrated bartenders who are anxious to go home. I know the sessions aren't making much money... they barely break even I'm sure, but the publican supports them regardless, even though he isn't there very often to enjoy it personally... his love of the music is the reason sessions continue there at all. We are very fortunate to have someone like him in SF.
I would say the session has definitely matured over the years both in how people participate and how the crowd that happens to be in the pub respond or enjoy it... if at all. Sometimes it does seem to attract people and we are surprised to discover them sitting all around us and actually listening, and they seem to be enjoying it... and clapping when we appear to have ended a set of tunes. In the early days I wouldn't have imagined having the pub go quiet for a song, but after years of getting their attention and asking people to please be quiet for one song and explaining briefly about how they will enjoy it if they can hear it... now all we need do is shush and the punters seem to know what to do... and the pub goes silent for the odd song here and there. I think it helped to reassure them that it doesn't mean they have to remain quiet the rest of the night.
If I'd known it was yours, I would have spared you the embarrassment and not disguised the text a bit. I understand about old and dated and regrettable writings.
Yes, the stereotype is apt. The number of locally-minted "difficult" people is swolen by the influx of "difficult people migrating westward -- the crowd who've worn out their welcomes elsewhere. The obstacle of the Pacific causes them to linger here in clumps. (The most recent pitiful madman to utterly disrupt the session at O'Flaherty's happened to be an Irishman, BTW.) We put a brave face on, and tell ourselves that they lend texture.
Actually... looking back on that discussion now it was one of the hosts that originally posted my page and it was perfectly in context. The thing to understand about that discussion is the conflict over whose session it is and misconceptions about entitlement.
One happy part of living in a small town is that our local sessions are free of tourists and other loud pests (well, except in the summer, that is, and then we tolerate them as long as they bring money with them).
Interesting to hear your take on Americeltic, PB, since he invoked your name a few times during his short but provocative visit to the discussion pages a few weeks ago.
Unfortunately, people always seem to create more drama than they need to, which, I suppose, is why etiquette was invented in the first place, as an alternative to bashing those we disagree with on the heads with rocks.
"One happy part of living in a small town is that our local sessions are free of tourists and other loud pests."
For those of us who live in large metropolitan areas like mine, we are unable to avoid them, and so as Shay Black said, we do need some controls at our sessions. Unfortunately, if a newcomer is unfamiliar with them, this can lead to misunderstanding, disappointment, frustration and conflict.
This is why I strive to include an accurate description of each of the dozens of sessions I cover in my weekly newsletter, especially the most likely issue in my experience, tunes vs. songs.
Ah, the tourists. Aren't they a terrible species altogether?
Of course, when we go to visit another town or country we're only visitors or travelling.
Almost twenty years ago, I "visited" O'Connor's pub in Doolin'. A good pub, by the way, with lots of good music but obviously geared up for the needs of visitors such as myself and... *even worse*... tourists.
One lunch time I was there, the woman(I think she ran the place) was on the phone to (the now late)Micho Russell using words to the effect...
"Hey Micho, we're gexpecting a coach party in an hour's time. Would you like to come down with your whistle and be playing a few tunes when they arrive?"
Sure enough, when the coach arrived and the "tourists" came in for lunch, dear old Micho was "tooting" away at the table for their benefit. Not that I was complaining, of course, as I had already ordered an Irish stew and another pint of Guinness for the occasion.
My point is that so called "informal sessions" are not always what they seem. Neither are tourists even.
That's right, John, it's all about money now.
I go there sometimes when I'm on that side of the water, because you'll get some great players. But the circumstances are nearly always far from ideal.
If it isn't "rocket science", then should we try rocket surgery?
Al, "bashing those whom we disagree with on the head with rocks" is better than taking them for granite (yes I have made this mistake myself).
When I go to sessions either here or somewhere else, I try to avoid being disruptive and "go with the flow" of the session. I guess I must be doing something right because I have never been asked or told to leave a session nor have I ever been told not to come back a second time.
"session etiquette"
"session etiquette"
From a most-likely-well-intentioned "guide to session etiquette", found on this site:
"Clapping and "whooping" are perfectly ok as long as you clap when they're at the end of the set of tunes and don't scare them or throw them off with your "whoops".
Musicians usually appreciate these displays because it means you are listening and enjoying the music."
Is it just me, or does this read like something you'd find posted on a cage at the zoo?
"Mummy, look, what's that one doing?"
"Oh, darling, he's playing an accordion. You don't see that very much any more. Poor thing, so noble and majestic... it's a shame to see them caged up like this, but I suppose it's for the best. Now, they're coming to the end of the tune, let's whoop a little to encourage them, like it says on the sign"
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: "session etiquette"
I'll take a whoop and some clapping anytime over the thumbs up and the wink.
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by SandyBottoms
Re: "session etiquette"
Sometimes the whooping and clapping comes from a never seen before drunk guy, who early on seems ok, then he ends up trying to buy everyone drinks, and tries to chat up any female session member who foolishly sat too close to the outer edge, by then you realize he's actually extremely drunk. That guy should have gone home early and just left us with a thumbs up.
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by SandyBottoms
Re: "session etiquette"
We do appreciate people listening and enjoying the music, it's just we're not too over-demonstrative ourselves, and find the enthusiastic audience a bit trying after a while.
No 1 Son, who has both attitude and problems, sometimes accompanies us to the pub, although he insists that he hates folk music ( has been known to put his fingers in his ears if I sing ). Then he sits in another part of the bar, and is often the only person clapping at the end of a set.
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by Guernsey Pete
Re: "session etiquette"
" That guy should have gone home early and just left us with a thumbs up."
That guy was partly responsible for the drink sales that night. He's the reason most sessions are welcome by the proprietor.
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by Weejie
Re: "session etiquette"
I like the whoopers, except when it's ironic whooping.
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by Hup
Re: "session etiquette"
I don't know about the zoo analogy, but there's a jazz analogy: at jazz clubs the etiquette consists of aplauding at the end of each solo... shows the band you're listening and appreciating.
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by Richard D Cook
Re: "session etiquette"
And, in many cases, that you're being bloody pretentious.
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by Steve Shaw
Re: "session etiquette"
There's a big crane driver called Eugene who frequents the Wig Museum who can 'whoop' loudly and unexpectedly enough to make us jump.
But he only scares us when he regales us with his 'working on the railways' stories.
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: "session etiquette"
"ironic whooping"
Well, there's my "brain worm" for the day.
Thanks a lot, Hup.
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by Piece
Re: "session etiquette"
"That guy was partly responsible for the drink sales that night. He's the reason most sessions are welcome by the proprietor."
I'm glad there are still pubs that simply support the music, and sessions that play the tunes for the sake of playing the tunes, not to entertain the punters.
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: "session etiquette"
"I'm glad there are still pubs that simply support the music,"
You won't find many pubs that put the session musicians before the sales of drinks in this part of the world IME, Will.
Especially in the present climate. Glad there seems to be some in your neck of the woods.
What the musicians play is another matter.
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by Weejie
Re: "session etiquette"
I don't know if it's worth pointing out that the post was about the "guide to etiquette" and not the actual behavior of the audience.
Probably not. Don't know why I bother, honestly.
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: "session etiquette"
I love a good whoop from the pub crowd, especially if it comes at some random moment in a set, and is delivered in a slurred intoxicated mish-mash of gibberish. But my favorite, is the random non-sequitur holler, like the time a guy blurted out "Soylent Green is made out of PEOPLE!" during a set of tunes - and then ran out of the pub.
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: "session etiquette"
I agree with Ptarmigan on this one. Elitism is bad for trad.
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by Batgirl has left the GPL ;)
Re: "session etiquette"
I hate to hear Whooping in a pub session especially when it's happening before we start playing. I just know it's going to be a long night.....!
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by Free Reed
Re: "session etiquette"
http://pweb.jps.net/~jgilder/seisiun.html
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by Batgirl has left the GPL ;)
Re: "session etiquette"
I'm not sure why he calls it a "Seisiún" when he's writing in English?
Surely the whole thing should be in (Irish)Gaelic or not?
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by Johnny Jay
Re: "session etiquette"
"Probably not. Don't know why I bother, honestly. "
Well, you didn't bother to post the link to the guide.
Thanks, Babs.
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by Weejie
Re: "session etiquette"
"at jazz clubs the etiquette consists of aplauding at the end of each solo... shows the band you're listening and appreciating".
ITM equivalent is the "whoop" of appreciation at a good tune change, especially at ceilidh band competitions.
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by deeor
Re: "session etiquette"
"Well, you didn't bother to post the link to the guide."
Of course I didn't. Did you read the bit that I quoted? Do you really want to read more of that?
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: "session etiquette"
"Is it just me, or does this read like something you'd find posted on a cage at the zoo? "
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
I've never paid for a beer when I've been playing at a session... # Posted on November 21st 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
If you were provided with free peanuts would the connection be clearer ?
# Posted on November 28th 2011 by David50
Re: "session etiquette"
"Of course I didn't. Did you read the bit that I quoted? Do you really want to read more of that?" Well, if you quote something, it's usually a good idea to name the source. I'm not surprised your class lost interest and decided to suggest where etiquette might be improved in other areas. After all, it didn't really start off too seriously. To paraphrase someone else: Why the outrage?
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by Weejie
Re: "session etiquette"
Whooping is great in the middle of the tune. It shows that the person enjoys and appreciates the tune and the music. I find it very encouraging. I would much rather have that rather than someone not even listening and making loud noises which I find much more distracting. The other players also enjoy the whooping and claps as well. I don't think any of us oppose them at all.
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by pipersgrip
Re: "session etiquette"
"You won't find many pubs that put the session musicians before the sales of drinks in this part of the world "
Try the Herschel Arms in Slough, Weejie. The proprietor turns over the (somewhat small) saloon bar to the session and keeps food and drinks flowing to the musicians and sometimes others, leaving (I presume) the public bar to look after paying the rent.
Pretty good session when I was there.
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by oldstrings
Re: "session etiquette"
"Try the Herschel Arms in Slough, Weejie. "
Not really in this part of the world. However, if it was down to a choice between paying customers and playing musicians, I think I know what the out come would be.
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by Weejie
Re: "session etiquette"
I think a book saying "session etiquette is doing (insert specific instruction here) is always going to be wrong for someone's session, as each one has different conventions and expectations.
I couldn't care less if people clap after a set of tunes. Beats them attempting to clap "in time" while you're playing!
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: "session etiquette"
The SF Irish social clubs bought land across from Fleishhacker Zoo to build "The United Irish Cultural Center." A number of expats used to quip that the name failed on at least three counts. What's more, some of the particularly bitter expats used to call it "the Hiberniate House of the zoo."
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: "session etiquette"
"To paraphrase someone else: Why the outrage?"
Not so much outrage as bewilderment on my part. It just struck me as a very peculiar sort of a thing - to have to tell people when and how they ought to respond to the music in a pub. It's a little like reading a guide to stadium concerts, and finding a passage about when one is expected to hold up a cigarette lighter. You start from "why does this document even exist?" and just move along from there.
Maybe it's just me, I don't know.
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: "session etiquette"
"I think a book saying "session etiquette is doing (insert specific instruction here) is always going to be wrong for someone's session, as each one has different conventions and expectations."
There's the practical objection. Then there's also the aesthetic objection, which you either get or you don't. And if you don't get that, I'm not sure it's explainable, any more than I can explain why that one melody in Shostakovich's Em piano trio grabs me.
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: "session etiquette"
" It just struck me as a very peculiar sort of a thing - to have to tell people when and how they ought to respond to the music in a pub."
Of course it is peculiar. But then, most instructions on etiquette tend to be odd.
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by Weejie
Re: "session etiquette"
Somehow, I doubt that most people who play in pubs, surrounded by noise, clattering dishes and conversation (not to mention occasional mayhem), are going to be scared or thrown off their game by "whoops," no matter how enthusiastic.
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: "session etiquette"
I've always thought that the whole concept of "session etiquette" was a load of balls because any scenario that it could possibly cover would, automatically, be also covered by bog standard every day politeness.
However, the caveat to that, that this thread has shed light upon, is the oft nonsensical nature of the specifics of what is impolite or polite within cultural contexts. Like burping in Arabia - to quote the classic example.
But it is though, quite straight forward to deal with. One allows someone from outwith the culture to make as many session etiquette mistakes as they can muster. But red cards should be given to those who should know better.
It ain't rocket science. Move on
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by ...
Re: "session etiquette"
That said, I hope "Fidkid" will be flogging a guide to session etiquette on his website.
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: "session etiquette"
I've had the clap and it wasn't that bad. People could give you worse things.
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by polkageist
Re: "session etiquette"
How about when the clapping, whooping etc comes from the other players?
I can understand the "Hup" or "Hep" just before a key change or a new tune but I've encountered some quite bizarre and sometimes off putting behaviour in some places
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by Johnny Jay
Re: "session etiquette"
Ah, I see one of the experts here on all things Irish trad has stumbled onto something I posted for our local to be linked to the pub's website. It was intended as a guide for people visiting that particular pub in hopes of possibly thwarting problems that we were experiencing with both musicians and punters, and it has served the pub quite well based on how the experience has developed over the years. I don't know if it is at all on account of the guide, but it doesn't seem to have made things worse... so I keep it linked.
The part you are discussing was in response to occasions when people would express their delight, (or intoxication), in a way that was disruptive; they would stand or sit nearby clapping along loudly and off-beat, cheer loudly and randomly, and make demands, sometimes after buying a round and feeling entitled. As a host of many sessions there and as the organizer of sessions, I was asked if anything could be done... and this was my response.
The idea for the spelling, "Seisiún," was the publican's idea; he's from Belfast and has owned the pub since 1975. He supports the sessions at his pub because he loves the music... not because he reaps anything financially from having it. Often we are entertaining ourselves late into the night and the only complaints might come from frustrated bartenders who are anxious to go home. I know the sessions aren't making much money... they barely break even I'm sure, but the publican supports them regardless, even though he isn't there very often to enjoy it personally... his love of the music is the reason sessions continue there at all. We are very fortunate to have someone like him in SF.
I would say the session has definitely matured over the years both in how people participate and how the crowd that happens to be in the pub respond or enjoy it... if at all. Sometimes it does seem to attract people and we are surprised to discover them sitting all around us and actually listening, and they seem to be enjoying it... and clapping when we appear to have ended a set of tunes. In the early days I wouldn't have imagined having the pub go quiet for a song, but after years of getting their attention and asking people to please be quiet for one song and explaining briefly about how they will enjoy it if they can hear it... now all we need do is shush and the punters seem to know what to do... and the pub goes silent for the odd song here and there. I think it helped to reassure them that it doesn't mean they have to remain quiet the rest of the night.
Anyway... there's the backstory... carry on...
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by Phantom Button
Re: "session etiquette"
Ah, yes. "Punters..."
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by Steve Shaw
Re: "session etiquette"
Cheers for the context, Jack. Makes much more sense now!
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: "session etiquette"
Was that yours, Jack? Someone lifted it without attribution:
http://www.thesession.org/sessions/display/286/comments#comment503612
If I'd known it was yours, I would have spared you the embarrassment and not disguised the text a bit. I understand about old and dated and regrettable writings.
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: "session etiquette"
On the other hand, the thread Jon just linked to makes for very entertaining reading.
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: "session etiquette"
Isn't it, though?
And, as a bonus, it reminds me why I'm so happy I don't live in California any more.
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: "session etiquette"
Thanks for the stereotype dude.
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by Batgirl has left the GPL ;)
Re: "session etiquette"
Yes, the stereotype is apt. The number of locally-minted "difficult" people is swolen by the influx of "difficult people migrating westward -- the crowd who've worn out their welcomes elsewhere. The obstacle of the Pacific causes them to linger here in clumps. (The most recent pitiful madman to utterly disrupt the session at O'Flaherty's happened to be an Irishman, BTW.) We put a brave face on, and tell ourselves that they lend texture.
# Posted on November 29th 2011 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: "session etiquette"
Actually... looking back on that discussion now it was one of the hosts that originally posted my page and it was perfectly in context. The thing to understand about that discussion is the conflict over whose session it is and misconceptions about entitlement.
# Posted on November 30th 2011 by Phantom Button
Re: "session etiquette"
One happy part of living in a small town is that our local sessions are free of tourists and other loud pests (well, except in the summer, that is, and then we tolerate them as long as they bring money with them).
Interesting to hear your take on Americeltic, PB, since he invoked your name a few times during his short but provocative visit to the discussion pages a few weeks ago.
# Posted on November 30th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: "session etiquette"
Unfortunately, people always seem to create more drama than they need to, which, I suppose, is why etiquette was invented in the first place, as an alternative to bashing those we disagree with on the heads with rocks.
# Posted on November 30th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: "session etiquette"
"One happy part of living in a small town is that our local sessions are free of tourists and other loud pests."
For those of us who live in large metropolitan areas like mine, we are unable to avoid them, and so as Shay Black said, we do need some controls at our sessions. Unfortunately, if a newcomer is unfamiliar with them, this can lead to misunderstanding, disappointment, frustration and conflict.
This is why I strive to include an accurate description of each of the dozens of sessions I cover in my weekly newsletter, especially the most likely issue in my experience, tunes vs. songs.
Tony Becker (AmeriCeltic)
# Posted on December 1st 2011 by AmeriCeltic
Re: "session etiquette"
Ah, the tourists. Aren't they a terrible species altogether?
Of course, when we go to visit another town or country we're only visitors or travelling.
Almost twenty years ago, I "visited" O'Connor's pub in Doolin'. A good pub, by the way, with lots of good music but obviously geared up for the needs of visitors such as myself and... *even worse*... tourists.
One lunch time I was there, the woman(I think she ran the place) was on the phone to (the now late)Micho Russell using words to the effect...
"Hey Micho, we're gexpecting a coach party in an hour's time. Would you like to come down with your whistle and be playing a few tunes when they arrive?"
Sure enough, when the coach arrived and the "tourists" came in for lunch, dear old Micho was "tooting" away at the table for their benefit. Not that I was complaining, of course, as I had already ordered an Irish stew and another pint of Guinness for the occasion.
My point is that so called "informal sessions" are not always what they seem. Neither are tourists even.
# Posted on December 1st 2011 by Johnny Jay
Re: "session etiquette"
Just done a wee bit of "searching" on Doolin. It seems to be even more for the tourists these days than it was back then.
# Posted on December 1st 2011 by Johnny Jay
Re: "session etiquette"
That's right, John, it's all about money now.
I go there sometimes when I'm on that side of the water, because you'll get some great players. But the circumstances are nearly always far from ideal.
# Posted on December 2nd 2011 by DaveL35
Re: "session etiquette"
If it isn't "rocket science", then should we try rocket surgery?
Al, "bashing those whom we disagree with on the head with rocks" is better than taking them for granite (yes I have made this mistake myself).
When I go to sessions either here or somewhere else, I try to avoid being disruptive and "go with the flow" of the session. I guess I must be doing something right because I have never been asked or told to leave a session nor have I ever been told not to come back a second time.
Laurence
# Posted on December 2nd 2011 by fauxcelt