Hello. I need some help with triplets on the fiddle. I can get quite a good triplet on the fiddle playing the first note of the triplet to the left. Although, I can not get a triplet (at all) with the first note starting to the right. This is OK for many tunes, but with trickier tunes which require triplets the other way, this is much more difficult. Is there an easy way to do triplets??!! And do I need to learn how to do triplets with a quick flick of my right hand, as opposed to a movement with my elbow? Thanks
I can only do those one way also. I try to remember that I want play the note before the triplet on a down bow (or to the right), then practice the phrase a few different ways until I'm fairly confident that I can get that down bow before the triplet. I've heard the movement itself described a number of ways, but my favorite is that it's similar to a buzz roll on a drum - you want to stop your arm in a way that makes your wrist shake (gently though - don't hurt yourself).
You should get the movement down into your hand as much as possible - using a small movement from the wrist and more from the knuckles of your first two fingers. Movement from the elbow is inefficient, and you will have to recover some of the energy put into the bow, which will affect your timing and precision. Movement from your elbow when you're playing triplets will also lead you to develop shoulder injuries over time
Practise moving the bow from your fingers - between your thumb and first two fingers. Get used to producing a good tone while playing small single bow strokes with your fingers. Increase speed while maintaining constant rhythm. This is boring, but it will allow you to get used to controlling the bow from your fingers and from your hand. The elbow provides movement and stability, but not precision, so the more you practise presice movement from the wrist and fingers the better your playing will be - and not just for triplets.
Practise playing on the A string:
Down up-down-up
Up down-up-down
Down up-down-up
Gradually increase the speed of the three last notes until they're beginning to sound like triplets: A (3AAA
Once you're getting used to playing triplets at speed in either direction you can start to think about slurring into the lead-in note, and slurring off the last note of the triplet. Getting out of the triplet is the hard part.
It's fine to practise triplets as part of a tune, but they're too basic an ornament for you to be stuck playing them without some adaptability. Learning to play them as separate units, outside of the context of a tune, should allow you to develop them to the point where you can use them unconsciously. Forcing yourself to adjust your bowing so self-consciously in order to play them isn't really very helpful. Learn them separately from tunes, then put them into tunes, practise them as part of a tune, but don't learn the tune in such a way that you think: 'Oh, this is where the triplet goes'. It's a very limiting approach and will lead you up a dead end.
It's a really tiny movement - you need a loose but not too loose
wrist and fingers. Also I think it goes better in the middle or
lower bow --- but his Royal Awesomeness Tommy Peoples
does it near the tip of the bow.
yeah triplets often (not always) have a common lead up, so I go down up... down up down... and it works, or up up down up down... so I'm a cheater. I should do more work myself so I can be more purposeful and do what Dragut said.... I keep telling myself I will ... eventually. (probably not) The cat doesn't seem to mind how I do it. Neither the dog.
No, it all comes down to practising with sound technique. I speak as someone who spent many years practising with poor technique and getting nowhere.
Conor, if your natural tendency is to try and play triplets from the elbow then that would suggest to me that your whole bowing technique needs some serious revision. I really don't think that you can sort that out on the basis of answers posted in a forum like this. Find yourself a good teacher.
John is absolutely right about practising with poor technique - that's precisely what I meant when I said you'll find yourself at a dead end. Finding yourself a good teacher is a very sound idea, if you're the kind of person who is actually going to listen to a teacher. It doesn't matter how good they are if you don't respect them enough to actually do what they say and practise it obsessively.
The best thing that ever happened to my playing was a friend telling me that he was surprised that I could play music the way I did because my bowing was so weak. After the initial sting, I set out to transform my technique, and this is where I started. I decided to learn how to play triplets properly, moving them away from my elbow and into my fingers, and the rest came from that. I read and re-read advice from a number of posters, the most important being Will Harmon (who I still think should write a guide to playing the fiddle - if anybody can communicate good ideas on how to improve playing through the medium of writing, it's him).
After gradually improving over about two years, I bought the David Lyth book 'Bowing Styles in Irish Fiddle vol.2', and set out to learn some of the simple bowing patterns from there. I found that I couldn't really make sense of the transcriptions without the recordings, so I started searching for all the out-of-print recordings of Munster fiddle players that he used (which is where the idea for Ceol Álainn came from, incidentally). Then I spent a few months copying bowing patterns from some of the players like Joe Ryan and Julia Clifford, until some of the principles of their technique became absorbed into my playing. The most important thing, however, was the actual transformation that came about through listening to recordings of fiddlers like Bobby Casey, Julia Clifford, Paddy Cronin, Paddy Canny, Seán Ryan etc. I stopped listening to anything other than Irish trad. for about three or four years - spending at least 20 hours a week listening to (mostly unaccompanied ) fiddle recordings, and practising extremely painstaking, meticulously detailed techniques for about 3 hours a week, playing slowly at home using those techniques for abut 20 hours a week, then going to sessions with very good players about three to four times a week.
So, if you are already quite a good player, unemployed, and you are obsessive enough to dedicate yourself to hours of practise and playing every day, and to listen to Irish traditional music played by the best musicians with an extremely critical ear, at all hours of the day, then you can do it without a teacher. So, John's advice is probably worth listening to...
You also need extra pressure from the index finger. Try two long bows and then the triplet, right back into the long bows, so that you get into a rhythm. Part of the trick of triplets is keeping the smooth melodic line going before and after..
One more thing to try: slightly lift the outside edge of your bowing hand when playing triplets. It changes the angle of the muscles and joints and makes it easier, smoother and maybe faster.This would be in addition to the excellent advice above—get a teacher, get obsessive, and practice.
Thanks for all your comments, I read every single one of them and agree with what you said. I feel my technique requires some serious overhaul. And I can safely say that I am "Trad Mad"! All I listen to mostly is Irish music, although I am not the sort of person that would sit for hours on end practicing. And I do go to lessons, although they are group lessons, and I therefore don't get a lot of individual tuition, which I suppose at my age might be what I need. Thank you very much again, watch this spot!
I made a video which homes in on the bowed triplet. The triplet happens on the same note, so there is minimal left hand fingering to worry about. The change of direction is "breaking" from the wrist joint, although sometimes it looks like it's coming from the knuckles.
Some players do flex from the knuckles, but it's a more muddy sound. A sharp and snappy triplet is produced by the bow moving at right angles to the string - knuckling tends to skew this movement and produce a different sound.
Two contrasting example that spring to mind are Frankie Gavin and Tommy Peoples - both respected players, but producing totally different tones in their triplets owing to their mechanics.
Triplets on the fiddle
Triplets on the fiddle
Hello. I need some help with triplets on the fiddle. I can get quite a good triplet on the fiddle playing the first note of the triplet to the left. Although, I can not get a triplet (at all) with the first note starting to the right. This is OK for many tunes, but with trickier tunes which require triplets the other way, this is much more difficult. Is there an easy way to do triplets??!! And do I need to learn how to do triplets with a quick flick of my right hand, as opposed to a movement with my elbow? Thanks
# Posted on November 1st 2011 by Conor the fiddler
Re: Triplets on the fiddle
Try playing another note after the triplet, making it four in all, then leave out the first one. It all boils down to practise.
# Posted on November 1st 2011 by gam
Re: Triplets on the fiddle
I can only do those one way also. I try to remember that I want play the note before the triplet on a down bow (or to the right), then practice the phrase a few different ways until I'm fairly confident that I can get that down bow before the triplet. I've heard the movement itself described a number of ways, but my favorite is that it's similar to a buzz roll on a drum - you want to stop your arm in a way that makes your wrist shake (gently though - don't hurt yourself).
# Posted on November 1st 2011 by airport
Re: Triplets on the fiddle
"It all boils down to practise."
Shoot. There is no pill?
# Posted on November 2nd 2011 by catty
Re: Triplets on the fiddle
You should get the movement down into your hand as much as possible - using a small movement from the wrist and more from the knuckles of your first two fingers. Movement from the elbow is inefficient, and you will have to recover some of the energy put into the bow, which will affect your timing and precision. Movement from your elbow when you're playing triplets will also lead you to develop shoulder injuries over time
Practise moving the bow from your fingers - between your thumb and first two fingers. Get used to producing a good tone while playing small single bow strokes with your fingers. Increase speed while maintaining constant rhythm. This is boring, but it will allow you to get used to controlling the bow from your fingers and from your hand. The elbow provides movement and stability, but not precision, so the more you practise presice movement from the wrist and fingers the better your playing will be - and not just for triplets.
Practise playing on the A string:
Down up-down-up
Up down-up-down
Down up-down-up
Gradually increase the speed of the three last notes until they're beginning to sound like triplets: A (3AAA
Once you're getting used to playing triplets at speed in either direction you can start to think about slurring into the lead-in note, and slurring off the last note of the triplet. Getting out of the triplet is the hard part.
It's fine to practise triplets as part of a tune, but they're too basic an ornament for you to be stuck playing them without some adaptability. Learning to play them as separate units, outside of the context of a tune, should allow you to develop them to the point where you can use them unconsciously. Forcing yourself to adjust your bowing so self-consciously in order to play them isn't really very helpful. Learn them separately from tunes, then put them into tunes, practise them as part of a tune, but don't learn the tune in such a way that you think: 'Oh, this is where the triplet goes'. It's a very limiting approach and will lead you up a dead end.
# Posted on November 2nd 2011 by Dragut Reis
Re: Triplets on the fiddle
It's a really tiny movement - you need a loose but not too loose
wrist and fingers. Also I think it goes better in the middle or
lower bow --- but his Royal Awesomeness Tommy Peoples
does it near the tip of the bow.
# Posted on November 2nd 2011 by Hup
Re: Triplets on the fiddle
yeah triplets often (not always) have a common lead up, so I go down up... down up down... and it works, or up up down up down... so I'm a cheater. I should do more work myself so I can be more purposeful and do what Dragut said.... I keep telling myself I will ... eventually. (probably not) The cat doesn't seem to mind how I do it. Neither the dog.
# Posted on November 2nd 2011 by SandyBottoms
Re: Triplets on the fiddle
"It all boils down to practise."
No, it all comes down to practising with sound technique. I speak as someone who spent many years practising with poor technique and getting nowhere.
Conor, if your natural tendency is to try and play triplets from the elbow then that would suggest to me that your whole bowing technique needs some serious revision. I really don't think that you can sort that out on the basis of answers posted in a forum like this. Find yourself a good teacher.
# Posted on November 2nd 2011 by johndsamuels
Re: Triplets on the fiddle
John is absolutely right about practising with poor technique - that's precisely what I meant when I said you'll find yourself at a dead end. Finding yourself a good teacher is a very sound idea, if you're the kind of person who is actually going to listen to a teacher. It doesn't matter how good they are if you don't respect them enough to actually do what they say and practise it obsessively.
The best thing that ever happened to my playing was a friend telling me that he was surprised that I could play music the way I did because my bowing was so weak. After the initial sting, I set out to transform my technique, and this is where I started. I decided to learn how to play triplets properly, moving them away from my elbow and into my fingers, and the rest came from that. I read and re-read advice from a number of posters, the most important being Will Harmon (who I still think should write a guide to playing the fiddle - if anybody can communicate good ideas on how to improve playing through the medium of writing, it's him).
After gradually improving over about two years, I bought the David Lyth book 'Bowing Styles in Irish Fiddle vol.2', and set out to learn some of the simple bowing patterns from there. I found that I couldn't really make sense of the transcriptions without the recordings, so I started searching for all the out-of-print recordings of Munster fiddle players that he used (which is where the idea for Ceol Álainn came from, incidentally). Then I spent a few months copying bowing patterns from some of the players like Joe Ryan and Julia Clifford, until some of the principles of their technique became absorbed into my playing. The most important thing, however, was the actual transformation that came about through listening to recordings of fiddlers like Bobby Casey, Julia Clifford, Paddy Cronin, Paddy Canny, Seán Ryan etc. I stopped listening to anything other than Irish trad. for about three or four years - spending at least 20 hours a week listening to (mostly unaccompanied ) fiddle recordings, and practising extremely painstaking, meticulously detailed techniques for about 3 hours a week, playing slowly at home using those techniques for abut 20 hours a week, then going to sessions with very good players about three to four times a week.
So, if you are already quite a good player, unemployed, and you are obsessive enough to dedicate yourself to hours of practise and playing every day, and to listen to Irish traditional music played by the best musicians with an extremely critical ear, at all hours of the day, then you can do it without a teacher. So, John's advice is probably worth listening to...
# Posted on November 2nd 2011 by Dragut Reis
Re: Triplets on the fiddle
You also need extra pressure from the index finger. Try two long bows and then the triplet, right back into the long bows, so that you get into a rhythm. Part of the trick of triplets is keeping the smooth melodic line going before and after..
# Posted on November 2nd 2011 by kennedy
Re: Triplets on the fiddle
One more thing to try: slightly lift the outside edge of your bowing hand when playing triplets. It changes the angle of the muscles and joints and makes it easier, smoother and maybe faster.This would be in addition to the excellent advice above—get a teacher, get obsessive, and practice.
# Posted on November 2nd 2011 by fidkid
Re: Triplets on the fiddle
Thanks for all your comments, I read every single one of them and agree with what you said. I feel my technique requires some serious overhaul. And I can safely say that I am "Trad Mad"! All I listen to mostly is Irish music, although I am not the sort of person that would sit for hours on end practicing. And I do go to lessons, although they are group lessons, and I therefore don't get a lot of individual tuition, which I suppose at my age might be what I need. Thank you very much again, watch this spot!
# Posted on November 2nd 2011 by Conor the fiddler
Re: Triplets on the fiddle
There have been some really useful discussions on this, such as this one on scrunch triplets (colourfully described as cat's sneezes): http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/3147/ and this one: http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/12076/
Will Harmon was on particular good form in his comments.
Here's a great instructional clip from Bruce MacGregor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfwReZUXgAI
# Posted on November 2nd 2011 by RichardB
Re: Triplets on the fiddle
I made a video which homes in on the bowed triplet. The triplet happens on the same note, so there is minimal left hand fingering to worry about. The change of direction is "breaking" from the wrist joint, although sometimes it looks like it's coming from the knuckles.
Some players do flex from the knuckles, but it's a more muddy sound. A sharp and snappy triplet is produced by the bow moving at right angles to the string - knuckling tends to skew this movement and produce a different sound.
Two contrasting example that spring to mind are Frankie Gavin and Tommy Peoples - both respected players, but producing totally different tones in their triplets owing to their mechanics.
My vid, hope fully which will help :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di4w4xYRoHQ
# Posted on November 4th 2011 by Worldfiddler