I have always been warned against noodling in the sessions I grew up playing in, yet I have just read a thread from a different site that appears to support the idea of doing this when you dont know a tune at all. So either I am out of touch (totally possible) or have been living in the wrong bloody area all these years (and been cruelly victimised during my noodling experimentations of '89' when I was told to "cut it out and go home and learn the frigging thing" also possible). So, noodles? Or no noodles?
I've known a few musicians - those who have spent years playing this music - who can pick up a tune on the fly after a single pass or two through the tune as others are playing it. Their knowledge of the genre and years spent developing their keen ears allows them to do this in a way which does not damage the session or distract the other folks playing the tune.
In my humble experience, this constitutes about 5% of those who attempt to play without knowing the tune. The other 95% disrupt the session with their ham-handed searching for notes. Therefore, if you are not in this percentage, I'd prefer you go home and learn the tune, have it taught to you during a break in the session, or experiment under water in the mud bog as illustrated in Richard B's video link. Noodles really belong in a restaurant with a nice marinara sauce and a glass of Chianti.
If you're disrupting the musicians to the point that somebody tells you to stop, then you shouldn't do it. It probably means that you're in a good session, with musicians who want it to stay that way. Musicians who maintain high standards in open sessions are rare and wonderful creatures, and should be obeyed. There are far too many open sessions where the 'anything goes' attitude means that the music is rubbish. If you try to pick the tune up on the fly, and you don't get 80% after the second time round, you're not going to get it, so just listen.
Very rarely would anybody pick up anything other the simplest tune that they've never heard before. Most of the time it's a matter of remembering what you've heard unconsciously, in sessions, on recordings, and filling out the gaps. To do this requires an advanced ability to learn by ear, as well as a considerable exposure to the music, and advanced playing skills. If you don't have all of these things to hand, keep quiet.
So is it also ok to say to some one that their noodling is getting up your nose? Obviously this has got nothing to do with the session I am going to this week. The good ole Belfast method (see above topic) is effective, lets face it, you definately know the tunes before you show your face agin, but a little brutal. All theoretical of course;)
If someone's wrecking the session, everybody is going to be quite happy to hear somebody else take responsibility for sorting them out. Whether you're prepared to assume that reponsibility depends on how socially squeamish you are, and whether it's actually worth saying something. If the standard is poor overall, there's little point in picking on one person. But if they're dragging down the quality of a session that would otherwise be of good quality, then have a word. Be brutal if necessary - wrecking good music is infinitely more brutal. I guess most people prefer to keep quiet, and have good tunes in private. Which is a shame, because a small, well-regulated open session can be lovely.
The funnier conversation involved my OH telling someone off for noodling. The offending party had been playing a whistle and completely making stuff up in what was otherwise a rather high class session in Miltown Malbay.
OH: You shouldn't really be playing unless you know the tunes.
Noodler: Oh. I thought I was getting about 70 percent of them.
OH: Uh, no.
Noodler: 40 percent?
OH: No.
Noodler: 30?
OH: No.
Noodler: They've been playing the same tune haven't they?
OH: No.
Noodler (alarmed): You mean, they've been playing different ones? All afternoon?
I've been following Michael Gill's advice - given a few years ago
on this site. I play the bits I can play (quietly) and leave out the
rest. Over time I've gradually learned many tunes by ear that
way at my regular session. That works well on fiddle, but I
don't (often) try this technique on flute - it sticks out too much.
Athough it has to be said it takes a long time to get every twist
and turn and the twists and turns vary depending on who you're
listening to!
Here's how I learn tunes at sessions without noodling: I listen until I know the tune in my head. This often means waiting till it comes up several times over weeks months or years. Then I play along, (unless there's a tricky part that needs to be worked out at home.)
Other ways to avoid noodling: 1) someone teaches me the tune, 2) I record it and learn it at home, 3) ask for the source and find it, listen to it a lot and learn it at home.
When you are new to learning tunes you end up being on a steep "acquisition" curve. You get your tunes from as many sources that are about and you try to get them as quick as you can. You even start to say things to yourself like, "yep, got that one nailed".
But the beauty and specific advantage of loosing this rush of acquisition is what happens to your playing when you calmly take your time learning tunes. You begin to understand the real meaning of the fact that tunes can never really be completely learned ... you begin to fully appreciate they way tunes reinvent themselves constantly under the fingers of the players you play a lot with. And then, without any effort, the tunes begin to reinvent themselves under your own fingers.
This subconscious fluidity cannot happen if you try to "nail" tunes, it cannot be forced.
Noodle!
Noodle!
I have always been warned against noodling in the sessions I grew up playing in, yet I have just read a thread from a different site that appears to support the idea of doing this when you dont know a tune at all. So either I am out of touch (totally possible) or have been living in the wrong bloody area all these years (and been cruelly victimised during my noodling experimentations of '89' when I was told to "cut it out and go home and learn the frigging thing" also possible). So, noodles? Or no noodles?
# Posted on October 31st 2011 by bagfed
Re: Noodle!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biL-QcviQGk
# Posted on October 31st 2011 by RichardB
Re: Noodle!
Re: Traditional Noodling 101
Posted on April 25th 2008 by ceolachan
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/17549/comments#comment364855
# Posted on October 31st 2011 by Batgirl has left the GPL ;)
Re: Noodle!
I've known a few musicians - those who have spent years playing this music - who can pick up a tune on the fly after a single pass or two through the tune as others are playing it. Their knowledge of the genre and years spent developing their keen ears allows them to do this in a way which does not damage the session or distract the other folks playing the tune.
In my humble experience, this constitutes about 5% of those who attempt to play without knowing the tune. The other 95% disrupt the session with their ham-handed searching for notes. Therefore, if you are not in this percentage, I'd prefer you go home and learn the tune, have it taught to you during a break in the session, or experiment under water in the mud bog as illustrated in Richard B's video link. Noodles really belong in a restaurant with a nice marinara sauce and a glass of Chianti.
# Posted on October 31st 2011 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Noodle!
If you're disrupting the musicians to the point that somebody tells you to stop, then you shouldn't do it. It probably means that you're in a good session, with musicians who want it to stay that way. Musicians who maintain high standards in open sessions are rare and wonderful creatures, and should be obeyed. There are far too many open sessions where the 'anything goes' attitude means that the music is rubbish. If you try to pick the tune up on the fly, and you don't get 80% after the second time round, you're not going to get it, so just listen.
Very rarely would anybody pick up anything other the simplest tune that they've never heard before. Most of the time it's a matter of remembering what you've heard unconsciously, in sessions, on recordings, and filling out the gaps. To do this requires an advanced ability to learn by ear, as well as a considerable exposure to the music, and advanced playing skills. If you don't have all of these things to hand, keep quiet.
# Posted on October 31st 2011 by Dragut Reis
Copy
& Paste
"The difference between noodling and learning tunes on the fly is:
Noodling is randomly flayling around hoping you hit the right note"
"Learning tunes is only playing the notes/phrases you do know and miming or even just thinking about the other bits until you know them?"
"The monumental difference is the the lack of bum notes."
April 25th 2008 by llig leahcim
# Posted on October 31st 2011 by Batgirl has left the GPL ;)
In other words...
If you have to ask...
# Posted on October 31st 2011 by Dragut Reis
Re: Noodle!
So is it also ok to say to some one that their noodling is getting up your nose? Obviously this has got nothing to do with the session I am going to this week. The good ole Belfast method (see above topic) is effective, lets face it, you definately know the tunes before you show your face agin, but a little brutal. All theoretical of course;)
# Posted on October 31st 2011 by bagfed
Re: Noodle!
If someone's wrecking the session, everybody is going to be quite happy to hear somebody else take responsibility for sorting them out. Whether you're prepared to assume that reponsibility depends on how socially squeamish you are, and whether it's actually worth saying something. If the standard is poor overall, there's little point in picking on one person. But if they're dragging down the quality of a session that would otherwise be of good quality, then have a word. Be brutal if necessary - wrecking good music is infinitely more brutal. I guess most people prefer to keep quiet, and have good tunes in private. Which is a shame, because a small, well-regulated open session can be lovely.
# Posted on October 31st 2011 by Dragut Reis
Re: Noodle!
I've told people off for nooding in my session. The conversation usually goes as follows:
Me (after suffering their noodling for an hour or more and getting more and more fed up): Hey, do you know the tune?
Noodler: No.
Me: You really shouldn't play unless you know the tune.
Noodler: Is jamming along okay?
Me: No. This isn't that kind of session.
# Posted on October 31st 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Noodle!
The funnier conversation involved my OH telling someone off for noodling. The offending party had been playing a whistle and completely making stuff up in what was otherwise a rather high class session in Miltown Malbay.
OH: You shouldn't really be playing unless you know the tunes.
Noodler: Oh. I thought I was getting about 70 percent of them.
OH: Uh, no.
Noodler: 40 percent?
OH: No.
Noodler: 30?
OH: No.
Noodler: They've been playing the same tune haven't they?
OH: No.
Noodler (alarmed): You mean, they've been playing different ones? All afternoon?
OH: Yes.
Noodler: They haven't repeated one??
OH: Not one.
# Posted on October 31st 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Noodle!
90% of backing is chow mein.
# Posted on October 31st 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: Noodle!
I am going to make a sign. That way I wont even have to say anything, and I can blame the sign on the bodhrán player
Maybe some one should point all this out to those on the other site I mentioned?
# Posted on October 31st 2011 by bagfed
Re: Noodle!
I've been following Michael Gill's advice - given a few years ago
on this site. I play the bits I can play (quietly) and leave out the
rest. Over time I've gradually learned many tunes by ear that
way at my regular session. That works well on fiddle, but I
don't (often) try this technique on flute - it sticks out too much.
Athough it has to be said it takes a long time to get every twist
and turn and the twists and turns vary depending on who you're
listening to!
# Posted on November 1st 2011 by Hup
Re: Noodle!
Here's how I learn tunes at sessions without noodling: I listen until I know the tune in my head. This often means waiting till it comes up several times over weeks months or years. Then I play along, (unless there's a tricky part that needs to be worked out at home.)
Other ways to avoid noodling: 1) someone teaches me the tune, 2) I record it and learn it at home, 3) ask for the source and find it, listen to it a lot and learn it at home.
# Posted on November 1st 2011 by Phantom Button
Re: Noodle!
When you are new to learning tunes you end up being on a steep "acquisition" curve. You get your tunes from as many sources that are about and you try to get them as quick as you can. You even start to say things to yourself like, "yep, got that one nailed".
But the beauty and specific advantage of loosing this rush of acquisition is what happens to your playing when you calmly take your time learning tunes. You begin to understand the real meaning of the fact that tunes can never really be completely learned ... you begin to fully appreciate they way tunes reinvent themselves constantly under the fingers of the players you play a lot with. And then, without any effort, the tunes begin to reinvent themselves under your own fingers.
This subconscious fluidity cannot happen if you try to "nail" tunes, it cannot be forced.
# Posted on November 1st 2011 by ...
Re: Noodle!
Probably don't want to learn the chords before knowing the tune.
# Posted on November 1st 2011 by Batgirl has left the GPL ;)
Re: Noodle!
the problem is all of your preconcieved notions.
maranara and chianti? who paired that for ya cheif?
what about alfredo? or fuzion? or good ole lemon butter and breadcrumbs?
Yes, some of you overcook your noodles or you leave them too aldente.... sometimes aldente is necessary when your aiming to bake your ziti boss.
Noodling is a god given gift.... if we recieved this music from some of the best noodlers, who are we to say that it needs to be shut down?
I agree that only 5% have the ability but if the past is bound with it, it should be important to let it develop...
I want to win the all Ireland for noodling. Does Comhaltas have a catagory for that now?
# Posted on November 1st 2011 by kook
Re: Noodle!
""""Noodler: They haven't repeated one??
OH: Not one.""""
That made me LOL.
Can you imagine a piper noodling in a session?
# Posted on November 1st 2011 by Bren
Re: Noodle!
'I want to win the All-Ireland for noodling. Does Comhaltas have a category for that now?'
Yep, it's called 'Miscellaneous Larrying'.
# Posted on November 1st 2011 by MacCruiskeen