I love the way he plays these reels, but I haven't been able to figure out how what he plays ties in with the tunes as presented on this site. How many times through which parts? I wonder if anybody has a clearer head for this sort of problem than I do? You can enjoy Paddy's playing while you work it out.
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
I learnt these two tunes from the Máire O'Keeffe album Cóisir - House Party and she plays them with the same structure - single reels each with an A and a B part played three times through. The B parts are very similar, but are different enough to count as separate tunes. I think some people just put both tunes together and play three parts. The Máire O'Keeffe cd is one of my favourites. I hadn't heard the Paddy Cronin version before - that's great too.
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
Thanks for the responses. I did sit down and play them along with him for quite a while last night, but I was still confused. It helps to know that the Rathmore tune isn't the one here, and that he is playing (A + B) x 3) x 2. Not really sure why I couldn't figure that out for myself, but thanks for helping me out.
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
I have always known the one that's here as the Pride of Rathmore as 'Considine's Grove' and have seen two part versions named 'The Rabbit's Waren'. The whole confusion lies in the part that starts GBdg egdB ADFD FAA which appears in both the Farranfore and Rathmore versions posted here and is also the first part of the Rathmore tune as Cronin plays it.
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
Thanks again for the additional response Prof. I don't use the dots to learn tunes, but I do find them helpful in cases like this, to get the structure clear in my mind.
I was going through my list of tunes the other day, thinking about a new session I am going to, and I realised I have an unfortunate predeliction for tunes with unusual structures, set dances and reels like Caher Rua and the Trip to Durrow, which I then get confused about.
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
I learned the tunes this morning, new tunes for the day, and was playing them just now. They're really closely related to a whole bunch of other tunes: 'The Humours of Barrack Street' (or 'Tie the Ribbons' as some prefer to call that one, claiming Planxty got it wrong for their Eurovision spot) and other tunes like Kennedy's move around the same area as well. Nice though.
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
I've been learning these tunes as well - I love Paddy Cronin's playing and this clip is great because you can watch his bowing and I've been copying a few things I don't normally do.
The conclusion I came to was that he was playing two versions of the same tune - Girls of Farranfore. He doesn't play Pride of Rathmore despite what the credits at the beginning say.
Denis McMahon and Connie Connell play another version here:
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
ha, i recently stumbled across this paddy cronin clip and am wild to learn the set as well....his "pride of rathmore" is different from all i've encountered including the "game of love" subsets such as that recorded by james kelly, which itself differs from the strain i'm more familiar with....
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
Disagree with you there Goose. I think you can learn the tune by listening and playing along, but then you can go on to learn more by discussing what it is you are playing. Is it one tune with variations, or two? Is it a standard setting other people are likely to know, or an individual player's idiosyncratic version? The dots and the names of the tunes are invaluable as reference points in a discussion like that, particularly since we can't easily illustrate what we mean by playing our instruments to each other.
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
To my ear he treats them as two separate tunes, each played three times. I do realise they're very closely related variants on the one tune and that most versions of The Girls of Farranfore incorporate the first part of the second tune as a variation.
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
Well I finally learned the two tunes. I found it really difficult. Last week at a session I successfully played two tunes with somebody and I had only heard them once before, but these two reels have taken me hours to get right.
Now I have a question about a detail of Paddy Cronin's playing. What is the ornament he uses right at the start of the tune, about the third note, when he moves down to the D string? He does it throughout the tune, and it sounds great, but I can't figure out what he is doing. Is it a roll, or a cut, or what?
Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX9LO114wm8
I love the way he plays these reels, but I haven't been able to figure out how what he plays ties in with the tunes as presented on this site. How many times through which parts? I wonder if anybody has a clearer head for this sort of problem than I do? You can enjoy Paddy's playing while you work it out.
# Posted on October 14th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
I learnt these two tunes from the Máire O'Keeffe album Cóisir - House Party and she plays them with the same structure - single reels each with an A and a B part played three times through. The B parts are very similar, but are different enough to count as separate tunes. I think some people just put both tunes together and play three parts. The Máire O'Keeffe cd is one of my favourites. I hadn't heard the Paddy Cronin version before - that's great too.
# Posted on October 14th 2011 by RichardB
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
Woe is you ... you've found a recording which doesn't tally with the dots.
# Posted on October 14th 2011 by ...
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
this one: http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/1607
# Posted on October 14th 2011 by RichardB
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
Farranfore is slightly simplified/different from the one in the database, the Rathmore one isn't here, not under that name anyway.
It's worth sitting down with them, he plays them in a very clear manner, you'd have them quick enough.
# Posted on October 14th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
Having said that, and looked closer at what's written down here, the version on this site is more or less a merger of the two.
The version here plus a quick basic scribble of the Cronin versions
T:Girls Of Farranfore, The
M:4/4
L:1/8
R:reel
K:EDor
BE~E2 GBdB|AD~D2 FAed|BE~E2 G3B|dBAd BE~E2|
GBdg eddB|AD~D2 FAed|BE~E2 ~G3B|dBAd BE~E2||
BeeB egfe|dcdf afed|(3Bcd ef ~g3e|dBAd BE~E2|
BeeB egfe|dcdf afdf|g2bg fgaf|edef gfed||
T:Girls of Farranfore, The
M:4/4
L:1/8
S:Paddy Cronin
R:Reel
K:EDor
d|IBE ~E2 GBdB|AD (3FED FAAd|BE ~E2 ~G B|dBAd BEE:||!
~e3 f gefe|defg afdf|~e3 f gefe|dBAd BEEd|!
~e3 f gefe|defg afdf|~g2 bg agfe|dBAd BEE:||!
T:Pride of Rathmore, The
M:4/4
S:Paddy Cronin
R:Reel
K:EDor
(3GAB dg e2 dB|AD(3FGE FAAd|BE ~E2 G3 B|dBAd BEE||!
~e3 f (3gfe fe|defg afdf|~e3 f gefe|dBAd BEEd|!
~e3 f (3gfe fe|defg afdf|~g2 bg afga|egfa ~g3||!
# Posted on October 14th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
afga = agfa in the penultimate bar of the last one
# Posted on October 14th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
forget last post, read: gbag fagf
# Posted on October 14th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
Thanks for the responses. I did sit down and play them along with him for quite a while last night, but I was still confused. It helps to know that the Rathmore tune isn't the one here, and that he is playing (A + B) x 3) x 2. Not really sure why I couldn't figure that out for myself, but thanks for helping me out.
# Posted on October 14th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
I have always known the one that's here as the Pride of Rathmore as 'Considine's Grove' and have seen two part versions named 'The Rabbit's Waren'. The whole confusion lies in the part that starts GBdg egdB ADFD FAA which appears in both the Farranfore and Rathmore versions posted here and is also the first part of the Rathmore tune as Cronin plays it.
# Posted on October 14th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
Thanks again for the additional response Prof. I don't use the dots to learn tunes, but I do find them helpful in cases like this, to get the structure clear in my mind.
I was going through my list of tunes the other day, thinking about a new session I am going to, and I realised I have an unfortunate predeliction for tunes with unusual structures, set dances and reels like Caher Rua and the Trip to Durrow, which I then get confused about.
# Posted on October 14th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
I learned the tunes this morning, new tunes for the day, and was playing them just now. They're really closely related to a whole bunch of other tunes: 'The Humours of Barrack Street' (or 'Tie the Ribbons' as some prefer to call that one, claiming Planxty got it wrong for their Eurovision spot) and other tunes like Kennedy's move around the same area as well. Nice though.
# Posted on October 14th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
I've been learning these tunes as well - I love Paddy Cronin's playing and this clip is great because you can watch his bowing and I've been copying a few things I don't normally do.
The conclusion I came to was that he was playing two versions of the same tune - Girls of Farranfore. He doesn't play Pride of Rathmore despite what the credits at the beginning say.
Denis McMahon and Connie Connell play another version here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWXzVNzOuzM
Denis announces the names at the beginning so I would put more trust in that than the subtitles in the Paddy Cronin video.
Anyway both clips are fantastic and I love the detective work of working out different people's settings of tunes, its all part of the fun!
# Posted on October 15th 2011 by Rocky Nook
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
ha, i recently stumbled across this paddy cronin clip and am wild to learn the set as well....his "pride of rathmore" is different from all i've encountered including the "game of love" subsets such as that recorded by james kelly, which itself differs from the strain i'm more familiar with....
# Posted on October 15th 2011 by ceemonster
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
You would all learn more if you stoped working out dots and,
fist part and second part, and just listen and learn
# Posted on October 15th 2011 by gooseinthenettles
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
Definitely more 'Game of Love' than 'Rathmore' . I'd forgotten about that one.
# Posted on October 15th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
Disagree with you there Goose. I think you can learn the tune by listening and playing along, but then you can go on to learn more by discussing what it is you are playing. Is it one tune with variations, or two? Is it a standard setting other people are likely to know, or an individual player's idiosyncratic version? The dots and the names of the tunes are invaluable as reference points in a discussion like that, particularly since we can't easily illustrate what we mean by playing our instruments to each other.
# Posted on October 15th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
To my ear he treats them as two separate tunes, each played three times. I do realise they're very closely related variants on the one tune and that most versions of The Girls of Farranfore incorporate the first part of the second tune as a variation.
# Posted on October 15th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Paddy Cronin's Pride of Rathmore/Girls of Farranfore medley structure
Well I finally learned the two tunes. I found it really difficult. Last week at a session I successfully played two tunes with somebody and I had only heard them once before, but these two reels have taken me hours to get right.
Now I have a question about a detail of Paddy Cronin's playing. What is the ornament he uses right at the start of the tune, about the third note, when he moves down to the D string? He does it throughout the tune, and it sounds great, but I can't figure out what he is doing. Is it a roll, or a cut, or what?
# Posted on October 22nd 2011 by Bernie 29