Pray to the almighty Jez, up in the sky. I agree with you, it's pants. I was recently looking around for sessions in London but most I saw were finished up. It behoves upon the person who listed a session in the first place to inform the world that the session is no more, were it to decline.
That said, how does this work regarding a sad decline in the standard of a sesh? A pub, not too distant from me, used to attract some great musicians, only 5 years ago or so. Now, and I haven't gone to the session for over a year, but I have been to the pub,the session seems to cater solely for the boorish "geezer" element of 2nd generation London Irish boneheads. I spoke to the governor and he seems to despise the decline but puts up with it, better the devil you know, I suppose.
"It behoves upon the person who listed a session in the first place to inform the world that the session is no more, were it to decline."
Ideally, yes. But it's not a good idea to build a system on the assumption that people can be counted on to do this, because lots won't. Keeping information up to date is work.
it is pointless having out of date information on a site. it renders the whole thing a waste of time. I think he should wipe the slate clean & let everyone put the sessions back up which will kill of the dead ones
One of the reasons I regularly tune in to this site is to pick up on interesting regional vernacular. Rudall, could you explain the meaning of "it's pants" to me and my fellow Yankees?
It's good to see the defunct sessions still listed - you might be looking up one you used to go to, and definite information that it's finished (and when) is better than nothing.
Ok, how about a meta thread[ like this one] linked to each session, so there is a single place to go for updates. Anyone can update it, but it will be a long thread eventually.... just an idea.
Frown away. This is actually quite an important issue imv. I still maintain that people might consider posting a few words to say a session has died if it does.
It's quite possible that the well meaning person who first posted the session no longer resides in the area or frequents the session.
He or she may not be or ever have been one of the mainstays.
So, perhaps there could be a stipulation that either the session leader(s) or organisers(I know some of you will maintain that there should be no "ownership" but never mind) should be the only persons encouraged to submit details? Then they would have some responsibility for updating same.
I know that there's quite a few loose cannons out there but, perhaps, Jeremy could tactfully ask that casual visitors to sessions refrain from posting details(In my experience, not all sessions want to be listed here, anyway) and instead suggest to the mainstays there that it might be a good idea to include info here.
Likewise, the same criteria could apply if a session winds up or deteriorates.
Also(I don'tknow how easy it is with the present set up), it might be possible to keep a separate database of members here who have submitted session details and then automatically generate a reminder every three months or so advising that they should submit any information re changes of circumstance..
"I still maintain that people might consider posting a few words to say a session has died if it does"
Me too.
And you can't do that very effectively if the listing has been removed.
The data doesn't take up much space and search functions make it easy to sift, so I don't see a problem with leaving defunct listings up.
If the newest comment is more than six months old, then it's always worth phoning or emailing before trekking to the back of beyond with your piano accordion and clarsach.
The open session died in 2005, so I posted that fact in 2006. A few years later, 2010, I posted the complete non-existence of the session. Then, in 2011, i posted the non-existence of the pub itself.
Calling attention to the mis-information has accomplished nothing, either.
How do you know? A traveller who was there in 2004 and enjoyed the session might have sought to return but been assured by your posts that neither session nor pub was there any more, so was saved a wasted journey.
"So, perhaps there could be a stipulation that either the session leader(s) or organisers should be the only persons encouraged to submit details?"
I like this idea. And it also stops dunces from listing closed sessions. However, when one lists a session it's not actually a session one is listing, it's a session venue.
I listed Sandy Bell's yonks ago and I really wish I hadn't, for loads of reasons - not least because there are at least 9 sessions every week and though I frequent a few, I'm not responsible for any of them. (I know some of you will maintain that there should be no "ownership" but never mind)
So, a practical solution would be to offer Jeremy the opportunity to ask that only session leader(s) or organisers should be encouraged to submit details while simultaneously allowing the sessions at the same venue to be listed separately. This would increase the quality of the database while simultaneously making Jeremy happy because it should significantly increase its size.
"perhaps there could be a stipulation that either the session leader(s) or organisers should be the only persons encouraged to submit details?"
That's no use at all.
Amazing as it may seem, most players at sessions, let alone "leaders" , do not hang out on this website.
It may be some people's desire to limit the number of attendees at their session, for whatever reasons, but most sessions are dying through lack of awareness, not over-participation.
I'd imagine that much of the word is now spread on sites such Face Book, by tweeting, texting etc and sites such as these are now considered to be less useful.
At least, the "young ones" do things this way.
While I have a FB account, I stipulate that I am not prepared to enter into any conversations or accept friend requests. Neither do I tweet or text and I only use a mobile phone for emergencies and out going calls if I'm away from home.
"How do you know? A traveller who was there in 2004 and enjoyed the session might have sought to return but been assured by your posts that neither session nor pub was there any more, so was saved a wasted journey.
# Posted on October 13th 2011 by Bren
Valid point, Bren.
I wonder, though if it might be better to strike the entire entry, though.
Not everyone reads all the fine print.
It's good to have a live commentary section though, so you can get contemporary updates (as long as enough people continue to use this site, which is another question)
Before thesession.org, I used a site called something like "sessioneer" when I was travelling. More often than not, you'd end up at some remote pub, which might or might not be still in busioness, and a load of blank faces turning to inspect the stranger who just blew into town.
"Ok, how about a meta thread[ like this one] linked to each session, so there is a single place to go for updates. Anyone can update it, but it will be a long thread eventually.... just an idea."
I recently tried to use the Sessions finder to find a session in London but found it worse than useless. You get 60 odd pages of results and then have to laboriously click through two pages before you find out if it is still active.
Personally I think the best thing to do would be to keep the defunct session listings on the site, but hive them off so that they clearly show up as such on the search listing page and can be easily excluded by use of a tick box in the search dialogue.
That way people who are just looking for any session can actually find one, and those who are looking for information on a specific session could find out if it was still running.
However not being a programmer I don't know how much work this would involve. Presumably users would have to have a button available to report defunct sessions, but maybe this should have to be confirmed by whoever posted the session?
Also, we might find that there are only actually one or two active sessions listed on the whole site...
The London sessions listings are a mess (there are at least two listings which are some 50 miles away in East Kent), but I'm puzzled how you managed to get '60 pages of results'. Putting 'England' and 'London' in the respective 'country' and 'town/city' categories only produces seven pages.
However, this one - http://www.thesession.org/sessions/display/600 - is a typical example of what's wrong with the database. The poster - one http://www.thesession.org/members/display/1 - listed this session in 2004, despite never having been present when the session was happening. To my knowledge, there used to be regular sessions there in the 1990s, but these became more sporadic as time went on. Worse still, however, is that the pub changed its name in 2008 to the Dusk Till Dawn and hosts no traditional music whatsoever, but the poster hasn't changed any of the details or removed the listing (which only he can do)!
Some might think it a bit rich that questions about sessions are rapidly deleted from the 'discussions' thread when the person who deletes them can't keep his own information up to date.
As far as I know, "the person" set up and keeps this site as a labour of love, doesn't charge, doesn't take ads, accepts the odd donation, for a site that has been of benefit to thousands over the years.
MacCruiskeen- I must have meant 60 results- not 60 pages. Ahem. It still took ages to get through them all though.
Bren- I agree- it is amazing that Jeremy does all this while keeping it free and ad-free. But I think that shouldn't stop people from thinking about how to make it better, and there does seem to be widespread agreement that the 'Sessions' section is not fit for purpose as it currently stands. This being the case, it could be frustrating if requests for more up to date information are deleted.
I don't have a problem with the listings as they are, and I use them a lot since I travel for work. It's not hard to contact a place if you're not sure whether it's still going.
But I agree it would be better if general requests about a particular place and time weren't zapped and moved but left in the Discussions section.
You know, "I'll be in Auchterturra on the 25th October, anyone around then for a few tunes ..." zap! Wheeked off to the Auchterturra session page where nobody ever looks!
That would allow more spontaneous private get-togethers to be arranged, which is what most posters say they prefer.
Sessions List
Sessions List
I notice that a lot of the sessions on the sessions listings page are not on any more.
Should the session.org not clear a session after 3 or maybe even 6 months and possibly even offer a chance for it to be renewed if it's still going?
# Posted on October 11th 2011 by Zouk2003
Re: Sessions List
Pray to the almighty Jez, up in the sky. I agree with you, it's pants. I was recently looking around for sessions in London but most I saw were finished up. It behoves upon the person who listed a session in the first place to inform the world that the session is no more, were it to decline.
That said, how does this work regarding a sad decline in the standard of a sesh? A pub, not too distant from me, used to attract some great musicians, only 5 years ago or so. Now, and I haven't gone to the session for over a year, but I have been to the pub,the session seems to cater solely for the boorish "geezer" element of 2nd generation London Irish boneheads. I spoke to the governor and he seems to despise the decline but puts up with it, better the devil you know, I suppose.
# Posted on October 11th 2011 by Rudall the time
Re: Sessions List
"It behoves upon the person who listed a session in the first place to inform the world that the session is no more, were it to decline."
Ideally, yes. But it's not a good idea to build a system on the assumption that people can be counted on to do this, because lots won't. Keeping information up to date is work.
# Posted on October 12th 2011 by Richard Robinson
Re: Sessions List
Jeremy is not in the least bit interested in the quality of the data available here, just the quantity.
# Posted on October 12th 2011 by ...
Re: Sessions List
it is pointless having out of date information on a site. it renders the whole thing a waste of time. I think he should wipe the slate clean & let everyone put the sessions back up which will kill of the dead ones
# Posted on October 12th 2011 by palethinboy
Re: Sessions List
"I agree with you, it's pants"
One of the reasons I regularly tune in to this site is to pick up on interesting regional vernacular. Rudall, could you explain the meaning of "it's pants" to me and my fellow Yankees?
# Posted on October 12th 2011 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Sessions List
He means "It's got legs"
It's good to see the defunct sessions still listed - you might be looking up one you used to go to, and definite information that it's finished (and when) is better than nothing.
# Posted on October 12th 2011 by Bren
Re: Sessions List
My info posted is up to date.
Leaving the defunct but marked as such sessions on the list does no great harm.
# Posted on October 12th 2011 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Sessions List
Ok, how about a meta thread[ like this one] linked to each session, so there is a single place to go for updates. Anyone can update it, but it will be a long thread eventually.... just an idea.
# Posted on October 13th 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: Sessions List
It's pants == it's f**ed
# Posted on October 13th 2011 by Hup
Re: Sessions List
Meta threads are frowned upon around here.
# Posted on October 13th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: Sessions List
Frown away. This is actually quite an important issue imv. I still maintain that people might consider posting a few words to say a session has died if it does.
# Posted on October 13th 2011 by Rudall the time
Re: Sessions List
It's quite possible that the well meaning person who first posted the session no longer resides in the area or frequents the session.
He or she may not be or ever have been one of the mainstays.
So, perhaps there could be a stipulation that either the session leader(s) or organisers(I know some of you will maintain that there should be no "ownership" but never mind) should be the only persons encouraged to submit details? Then they would have some responsibility for updating same.
I know that there's quite a few loose cannons out there but, perhaps, Jeremy could tactfully ask that casual visitors to sessions refrain from posting details(In my experience, not all sessions want to be listed here, anyway) and instead suggest to the mainstays there that it might be a good idea to include info here.
Likewise, the same criteria could apply if a session winds up or deteriorates.
# Posted on October 13th 2011 by Johnny Jay
Re: Sessions List
Also(I don'tknow how easy it is with the present set up), it might be possible to keep a separate database of members here who have submitted session details and then automatically generate a reminder every three months or so advising that they should submit any information re changes of circumstance..
# Posted on October 13th 2011 by Johnny Jay
Re: Sessions List
"I still maintain that people might consider posting a few words to say a session has died if it does"
Me too.
And you can't do that very effectively if the listing has been removed.
The data doesn't take up much space and search functions make it easy to sift, so I don't see a problem with leaving defunct listings up.
If the newest comment is more than six months old, then it's always worth phoning or emailing before trekking to the back of beyond with your piano accordion and clarsach.
# Posted on October 13th 2011 by Bren
Re: Sessions List
For the record --
Check this current posting for a session in New Hampshire, then check the Comments:
http://www.thesession.org/sessions/display/464
The open session died in 2005, so I posted that fact in 2006. A few years later, 2010, I posted the complete non-existence of the session. Then, in 2011, i posted the non-existence of the pub itself.
Calling attention to the mis-information has accomplished nothing, either.
Good Luck, all.
# Posted on October 13th 2011 by Piece
Re: Sessions List
How do you know? A traveller who was there in 2004 and enjoyed the session might have sought to return but been assured by your posts that neither session nor pub was there any more, so was saved a wasted journey.
# Posted on October 13th 2011 by Bren
Re: Sessions List
"So, perhaps there could be a stipulation that either the session leader(s) or organisers should be the only persons encouraged to submit details?"
I like this idea. And it also stops dunces from listing closed sessions. However, when one lists a session it's not actually a session one is listing, it's a session venue.
I listed Sandy Bell's yonks ago and I really wish I hadn't, for loads of reasons - not least because there are at least 9 sessions every week and though I frequent a few, I'm not responsible for any of them. (I know some of you will maintain that there should be no "ownership" but never mind)
So, a practical solution would be to offer Jeremy the opportunity to ask that only session leader(s) or organisers should be encouraged to submit details while simultaneously allowing the sessions at the same venue to be listed separately. This would increase the quality of the database while simultaneously making Jeremy happy because it should significantly increase its size.
# Posted on October 13th 2011 by ...
Re: Sessions List
sounds good to me
# Posted on October 13th 2011 by Fiddlemad
Re: Sessions List
Oh Dear. I got into a great deal of hot water a few weeks back when I brought this up.
# Posted on October 13th 2011 by zippydw
Re: Sessions List
"perhaps there could be a stipulation that either the session leader(s) or organisers should be the only persons encouraged to submit details?"
That's no use at all.
Amazing as it may seem, most players at sessions, let alone "leaders" , do not hang out on this website.
It may be some people's desire to limit the number of attendees at their session, for whatever reasons, but most sessions are dying through lack of awareness, not over-participation.
# Posted on October 14th 2011 by Bren
Re: Sessions List
I'd imagine that much of the word is now spread on sites such Face Book, by tweeting, texting etc and sites such as these are now considered to be less useful.
At least, the "young ones" do things this way.
While I have a FB account, I stipulate that I am not prepared to enter into any conversations or accept friend requests. Neither do I tweet or text and I only use a mobile phone for emergencies and out going calls if I'm away from home.
I'm quite a happy soul, really.
# Posted on October 14th 2011 by Johnny Jay
Re: Sessions List
I use facebook exclusively for keeping in touch with diddley chums. It works very well.
"sites like this are now considered to be less useful" ha ha ha
# Posted on October 14th 2011 by ...
Re: Sessions List
"How do you know? A traveller who was there in 2004 and enjoyed the session might have sought to return but been assured by your posts that neither session nor pub was there any more, so was saved a wasted journey.
# Posted on October 13th 2011 by Bren
Valid point, Bren.
I wonder, though if it might be better to strike the entire entry, though.
Not everyone reads all the fine print.
# Posted on October 14th 2011 by Piece
Re: Sessions List
It's good to have a live commentary section though, so you can get contemporary updates (as long as enough people continue to use this site, which is another question)
Before thesession.org, I used a site called something like "sessioneer" when I was travelling. More often than not, you'd end up at some remote pub, which might or might not be still in busioness, and a load of blank faces turning to inspect the stranger who just blew into town.
# Posted on October 14th 2011 by Bren
Re: Sessions List
Mmmn.
Yeh.
Been there, done that.
I can hear those crickets now...
# Posted on October 14th 2011 by Piece
Re: Sessions List
"Ok, how about a meta thread[ like this one] linked to each session, so there is a single place to go for updates. Anyone can update it, but it will be a long thread eventually.... just an idea."
Like the "Comments" section on the session page?
# Posted on October 15th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Sessions List
I recently tried to use the Sessions finder to find a session in London but found it worse than useless. You get 60 odd pages of results and then have to laboriously click through two pages before you find out if it is still active.
Personally I think the best thing to do would be to keep the defunct session listings on the site, but hive them off so that they clearly show up as such on the search listing page and can be easily excluded by use of a tick box in the search dialogue.
That way people who are just looking for any session can actually find one, and those who are looking for information on a specific session could find out if it was still running.
However not being a programmer I don't know how much work this would involve. Presumably users would have to have a button available to report defunct sessions, but maybe this should have to be confirmed by whoever posted the session?
Also, we might find that there are only actually one or two active sessions listed on the whole site...
# Posted on October 15th 2011 by zhanglang
Re: Sessions List
Yep, zhanglang,
The London sessions listings are a mess (there are at least two listings which are some 50 miles away in East Kent), but I'm puzzled how you managed to get '60 pages of results'. Putting 'England' and 'London' in the respective 'country' and 'town/city' categories only produces seven pages.
However, this one - http://www.thesession.org/sessions/display/600 - is a typical example of what's wrong with the database. The poster - one http://www.thesession.org/members/display/1 - listed this session in 2004, despite never having been present when the session was happening. To my knowledge, there used to be regular sessions there in the 1990s, but these became more sporadic as time went on. Worse still, however, is that the pub changed its name in 2008 to the Dusk Till Dawn and hosts no traditional music whatsoever, but the poster hasn't changed any of the details or removed the listing (which only he can do)!
Some might think it a bit rich that questions about sessions are rapidly deleted from the 'discussions' thread when the person who deletes them can't keep his own information up to date.
# Posted on October 15th 2011 by MacCruiskeen
Re: Sessions List
As far as I know, "the person" set up and keeps this site as a labour of love, doesn't charge, doesn't take ads, accepts the odd donation, for a site that has been of benefit to thousands over the years.
I couldn't possibly grudge him anything.
# Posted on October 15th 2011 by Bren
Re: Sessions List
Geoff, some of the 'discussions' with a question about sessions are deleted & some are not. But yes, there have been some very rapid deletions.
# Posted on October 15th 2011 by Batgirl has left the GPL ;)
http://www.uksessions.net/
# Posted on October 15th 2011 by Batgirl has left the GPL ;)
Re: Sessions List
" for a site that has been of benefit to thousands over the years"
ha ha
# Posted on October 16th 2011 by ...
Re: Sessions List
On the internet it's always about the numbers.
# Posted on October 16th 2011 by Batgirl has left the GPL ;)
&/or instant gratification.
# Posted on October 16th 2011 by Batgirl has left the GPL ;)
Re: Sessions List
" for a site that has been of benefit to thousands over the years"
OK, hundreds.
Dozens?
If only to provide a therapeutic outlet for some people's ramblings...
# Posted on October 16th 2011 by Bren
Re: Sessions List
MacCruiskeen- I must have meant 60 results- not 60 pages. Ahem. It still took ages to get through them all though.
Bren- I agree- it is amazing that Jeremy does all this while keeping it free and ad-free. But I think that shouldn't stop people from thinking about how to make it better, and there does seem to be widespread agreement that the 'Sessions' section is not fit for purpose as it currently stands. This being the case, it could be frustrating if requests for more up to date information are deleted.
# Posted on October 17th 2011 by zhanglang
Re: Sessions List
I don't have a problem with the listings as they are, and I use them a lot since I travel for work. It's not hard to contact a place if you're not sure whether it's still going.
But I agree it would be better if general requests about a particular place and time weren't zapped and moved but left in the Discussions section.
You know, "I'll be in Auchterturra on the 25th October, anyone around then for a few tunes ..." zap! Wheeked off to the Auchterturra session page where nobody ever looks!
That would allow more spontaneous private get-togethers to be arranged, which is what most posters say they prefer.
# Posted on October 17th 2011 by Bren
Re: Sessions List
And yes I'm aware of the contradiction between "spontaneous" and "arranged". I blame my Prussian great-grandfather.
# Posted on October 17th 2011 by Bren
Re: Sessions List
Sessions List?
Never suffered from that - my sessions are perfectly horizontal.
# Posted on November 7th 2011 by geoffwright