Well, you can argue as you like about whether anyone can sing, but in practice, most people don't these days, in public at any rate and some would say Thank God for that.
But.. at your average session with plenty of tunes, suppose a sone seems appropriate, who's the most likely to oblige according to what instrument(s) they play??
Suppose you have fiddle, box, flute/ whistle, bodhran, guitar, mandolin and whatever else you're having. Well, obviously the guitar player might be a good bet but of the others, who is most likely also to be able to carry a song?
My probably warped experience says it's more likely to be the flute/ whistle players and less likely to be the exponents of box/ concertina. But I wonder what the generality is? I think of sessions where I've been in and the flute player often has a good voice and also fluters like Cathal McConnell and Fintan Vallely. Is there some connection between having to use your breath to find notes on a flute and singing? Wheras the box player etc. just presses a button. Of course, where does that leave the fiddlers - they have to find the 'right' notes as well?
People who play box / harp / guitar etc are probably more likely to sing to their own accompaniment (whereas I guess flute / whistle players are unlikely to do that, but I have heard harmonica players accompany their own singing, albeit by taking turns with voice / instrument, of course).
To turn the question slightly on its head and ask "who is more likely to be asked to sing"...
I sing, only unaccompanied - I don't play anything stringy, and play flute, whistle and bodhran. In my experience, someone who has a guitar is more likely to be asked "so, do you sing, then?", than somebody who is playing the whistle. There does seem to be a tacit notion of "has guitar, therefore must sing too". This is just my experience.
m.d.
"of all the people I've heard singing unaccompanied in sessions"
Is this topic for discussion thread restricted to *musicians* in "tune sessions" who also sing or singers in general?
I ask this because, in my experience, the majority of unaccompanied singers are not known for playing any instruments at all.... although some might or have done on occasion.
Although there are "Singarounds" etc, where many of them prefer to frequent(And in a lot of cases, the rest of us are glad), it is not uncommon for singers also to attend tune sessions or more "mixed arrangements" where they will sing the occasional song at (hopefully) appropriate intervals. I know of a few singers who actually prefer to do this as
a) they might also enjoy listening to tunes,
b) there's less pressure and
c) they might even get a few more songs in this way than at a normal singaraound.
Contrary to the prevalent view here, as long as the singing is good and the singers don't overdo it, i.e. they are aware that it's a tune session and give the musicians their place, then I quite enjoy the distraction from time to time.
Sure MD, "who is more likely to be asked to sing"... is another way of looking at it. In any group of people who know each other well enough, the answer's probably well known.
Obviously you can't sing and accompany yourself on flute at same time but a fiddler could, in theory I think. I haven't seen it though in my own experience though often see fiddlers play behind a singer. Maybe that was partly the idea behind some of the older fiddlers when you'd see them holding the instrument against their arm or whatever, rather than chin??
John J, thoroughly agree, although as primarily an instrumentalist, I think there should be a limit of 1 to the number of verses an unaccompanied singer should sing. After 1 verse, you've heard the tune after all!
@the wounded hussar I've seen some wonderful singing accompanied on the fiddle held against the chest. It looks amazing and is a real treat to hear if done well.
Mark, there's an absence of smiley in your last post but one, but I assume it is meant humourously? The decision to sing, unaccompanied or otherwise, isn't to familiarise the tune players with the song air (or give them the opportunity to have a chat/sneak off for a smoke).
m.d.
Who's the most likely to sing - the first answer that came to my mind was 'The guy at the bar who invites himself into the Session and having indulged in a 32 verse dirge then invites the remainder of of his cronies at the bar to partake. However to get back to the original question ....Apart from the string players I've often found it was usually a whistle player who surprised the group with his dulcet tones.
That's true John J - suppose it's their chance to add a bit of melody. And my original question was mostly related to tune sessions - the exponents of which instrument are also most likely to add a song? I still think it's the wind bags (fluters etc) but could well be wrong.
Someone came to our session once, and she told me she was a singer. I was surprised that by the end of the night, she hadn't sung one tune :/ I was looking forward to it.
You can sing a tune, people do it all the time. Sometimes they sing a tune that's got words to it, and that's a song. Sometimes they sing a tune that hasn't got words, and that's when they do that "dai-diddle-eidle-diddle" stuff, and it's a tune.
You'll most likely find that those who play an instrument using the mouth can't sing along at the same time... Similarly those who play 'lead' instruments generally don't sing either, it's those who play accompanying instruments who usually do so to accompany their voice. Multi-instrumentalists don't count as they can play everything and sing along at the same time. I find that people assume, as woundedhussar says, that guitarists are invariably singers, so I like to disprove that by playing tunes instead. (If you think you can't sing a tune, listen to Micko Russell!)
However" given my experience of sessions going right back to the 1970s, it's always the new players or terrible singers - the equivalent of X-Factor hopefuls these days!) who dominate sessions with long boring songs; the really good singers are usually too modest and sit back to let the others take the floor. Until asked, of course.
Who's the most likely to sing?
Who's the most likely to sing?
Well, you can argue as you like about whether anyone can sing, but in practice, most people don't these days, in public at any rate and some would say Thank God for that.
But.. at your average session with plenty of tunes, suppose a sone seems appropriate, who's the most likely to oblige according to what instrument(s) they play??
Suppose you have fiddle, box, flute/ whistle, bodhran, guitar, mandolin and whatever else you're having. Well, obviously the guitar player might be a good bet but of the others, who is most likely also to be able to carry a song?
My probably warped experience says it's more likely to be the flute/ whistle players and less likely to be the exponents of box/ concertina. But I wonder what the generality is? I think of sessions where I've been in and the flute player often has a good voice and also fluters like Cathal McConnell and Fintan Vallely. Is there some connection between having to use your breath to find notes on a flute and singing? Wheras the box player etc. just presses a button. Of course, where does that leave the fiddlers - they have to find the 'right' notes as well?
I'd be interested in your observations.
# Posted on September 30th 2011 by the wounded hussar
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
People who play box / harp / guitar etc are probably more likely to sing to their own accompaniment (whereas I guess flute / whistle players are unlikely to do that, but I have heard harmonica players accompany their own singing, albeit by taking turns with voice / instrument, of course).
# Posted on September 30th 2011 by Mark Harmer
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
...but yes, of all the people I've heard singing unaccompanied in sessions, most of them if not all, are guitar-players.
# Posted on September 30th 2011 by Mark Harmer
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
To turn the question slightly on its head and ask "who is more likely to be asked to sing"...
I sing, only unaccompanied - I don't play anything stringy, and play flute, whistle and bodhran. In my experience, someone who has a guitar is more likely to be asked "so, do you sing, then?", than somebody who is playing the whistle. There does seem to be a tacit notion of "has guitar, therefore must sing too". This is just my experience.
m.d.
# Posted on September 30th 2011 by emmdee
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
Ah but isn't everyone a guitar player,...
# Posted on September 30th 2011 by RichardB
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
Cross post - emmdee has disproved my hypothesis
# Posted on September 30th 2011 by RichardB
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
"of all the people I've heard singing unaccompanied in sessions"
Is this topic for discussion thread restricted to *musicians* in "tune sessions" who also sing or singers in general?
I ask this because, in my experience, the majority of unaccompanied singers are not known for playing any instruments at all.... although some might or have done on occasion.
Although there are "Singarounds" etc, where many of them prefer to frequent(And in a lot of cases, the rest of us are glad), it is not uncommon for singers also to attend tune sessions or more "mixed arrangements" where they will sing the occasional song at (hopefully) appropriate intervals. I know of a few singers who actually prefer to do this as
a) they might also enjoy listening to tunes,
b) there's less pressure and
c) they might even get a few more songs in this way than at a normal singaraound.
Contrary to the prevalent view here, as long as the singing is good and the singers don't overdo it, i.e. they are aware that it's a tune session and give the musicians their place, then I quite enjoy the distraction from time to time.
# Posted on September 30th 2011 by Johnny Jay
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
Sure MD, "who is more likely to be asked to sing"... is another way of looking at it. In any group of people who know each other well enough, the answer's probably well known.
Obviously you can't sing and accompany yourself on flute at same time but a fiddler could, in theory I think. I haven't seen it though in my own experience though often see fiddlers play behind a singer. Maybe that was partly the idea behind some of the older fiddlers when you'd see them holding the instrument against their arm or whatever, rather than chin??
# Posted on September 30th 2011 by the wounded hussar
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
John J, thoroughly agree, although as primarily an instrumentalist, I think there should be a limit of 1 to the number of verses an unaccompanied singer should sing. After 1 verse, you've heard the tune after all!
# Posted on September 30th 2011 by Mark Harmer
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
@the wounded hussar I've seen some wonderful singing accompanied on the fiddle held against the chest. It looks amazing and is a real treat to hear if done well.
# Posted on September 30th 2011 by Mark Harmer
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
Mark, there's an absence of smiley in your last post but one, but I assume it is meant humourously? The decision to sing, unaccompanied or otherwise, isn't to familiarise the tune players with the song air (or give them the opportunity to have a chat/sneak off for a smoke).
m.d.
# Posted on September 30th 2011 by emmdee
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
In my expereience it is always guitarists who sing uninvited at sessions. And the worse they are as guitarists, the more likely they are to sing.
Many of the musicians I play with do sing in other situations, but at sessions they stick to the music unless invited/bullied into singing.
# Posted on September 30th 2011 by skreech
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
Who's the most likely to sing - the first answer that came to my mind was 'The guy at the bar who invites himself into the Session and having indulged in a 32 verse dirge then invites the remainder of of his cronies at the bar to partake. However to get back to the original question ....Apart from the string players I've often found it was usually a whistle player who surprised the group with his dulcet tones.
# Posted on September 30th 2011 by Free Reed
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
The bodhran player is never usually backwards and coming forward either....
# Posted on September 30th 2011 by Johnny Jay
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
That's true John J - suppose it's their chance to add a bit of melody. And my original question was mostly related to tune sessions - the exponents of which instrument are also most likely to add a song? I still think it's the wind bags (fluters etc) but could well be wrong.
# Posted on September 30th 2011 by the wounded hussar
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
I find that people often assume, when you arrive with a guitar, that you are ready to, and want to, sing, which is not always true.
# Posted on September 30th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
One for you wounded hussar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2o-OjyhBR4
# Posted on September 30th 2011 by BigDavy
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJxklaUHE6s&feature=youtube_gdata_player
# Posted on September 30th 2011 by Pot8os
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
Sure but both those clips would be from other folk traditions? Anyone here ever seen a fiddler sing and play Easter Snow etc.?
# Posted on September 30th 2011 by the wounded hussar
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
I've seen some sessions that have been so dire that I've willed the fat lady to sing.
# Posted on September 30th 2011 by Weejie
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
Someone came to our session once, and she told me she was a singer. I was surprised that by the end of the night, she hadn't sung one tune :/ I was looking forward to it.
# Posted on October 1st 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
*tune, meant **song.
# Posted on October 1st 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
You can sing a tune, people do it all the time. Sometimes they sing a tune that's got words to it, and that's a song. Sometimes they sing a tune that hasn't got words, and that's when they do that "dai-diddle-eidle-diddle" stuff, and it's a tune.
# Posted on October 1st 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
I blame Apple, who are I'm sure responsible for everyone calling "tunes", "songs".
# Posted on October 1st 2011 by Mark Harmer
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
Singers?
# Posted on October 2nd 2011 by The Merry Highlander
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
You'll most likely find that those who play an instrument using the mouth can't sing along at the same time... Similarly those who play 'lead' instruments generally don't sing either, it's those who play accompanying instruments who usually do so to accompany their voice. Multi-instrumentalists don't count as they can play everything and sing along at the same time. I find that people assume, as woundedhussar says, that guitarists are invariably singers, so I like to disprove that by playing tunes instead. (If you think you can't sing a tune, listen to Micko Russell!)
However" given my experience of sessions going right back to the 1970s, it's always the new players or terrible singers - the equivalent of X-Factor hopefuls these days!) who dominate sessions with long boring songs; the really good singers are usually too modest and sit back to let the others take the floor. Until asked, of course.
# Posted on October 2nd 2011 by Footerin'About
Re: Who's the most likely to sing?
The person carrying the book, who opens the book, as they haven't learned the words yet.
Q. Who's the most likely to stop singing?
A. The same person, when I pinch their book for a larf.
The trained singer, who is also an instrumentalist is probably the least liable to sing (unless pressed into singing) - they know better.
# Posted on November 7th 2011 by geoffwright