In Chris Smith's fascinating "resources" website, he/you says/say "I may start capoing up two frets and tuning a whole step lower." I gave it a shot on my 19-fret tenor, and it's nothing short of miraculous, in terms of comfort. My left hand doesn't ache any more, and the banjo tone sounds better if anything (probably because it's a Korean cheapy.) Thanks Chris! I'm interested to know if you or any others out there ended up adopting this strategy. It's doubled the fun of banjo playing for me.
[BTW, I loved your discussion on Hindustani music - puts the ITM learning curve in a bit of perspective, doesn't it? I got to work in Bombay a couple of times and heard some folks playing Indian instruments there that looked like guitars - at least in size - and their improvisations were mesmerizing.] Enough of that: I shouldn't hijack my own thread....
Sounds like a good idea if you find the stretch is a bit much. I might even try it out myself, although I'd imagine that it might be necessary to change to a thicker guage of strings. It'll be fine for first position playing but there's maybe a risk that I'll forget that I've got a capo on when playing up the neck. Still, it seems quite a good idea to try this until I can afford a short scale banjo.
I know others have retained the standard CGDA tuning and capoed the second fret too giving DAEB. You can play most of the Irish tunes this way but you lose the drone effect on the G string. Also, I know lots of tunes with lower notes so I don't really fancy this method.
My tone loses it's peculiarly funky low end with a capo on, so I wouldn't swear by the technique, but my left hand appreciates how stuff just falls under the first five frets.
I think if you have to do this type of thing to get a better sound, then either the instrument isn't that good, or (more likely) the wrong gauge of strings are being used. That's always been my experience. It's a trade-off really - you sacrifice tone in exchange for string comfort and smaller fret gaps.
One exception would be the 12-string guitar, tuned down two whole tones and capo'd on the 4th fret, simply owing to the amount of tension on those 12 strings.
Having said all that, if it works for you, go for it.
I've never tried much capoing with my tenor banjo.
However, I tune my 23.5 inch scale bouzouki a whole step lower and capo at the 2nd fret bringing the open tuning to G D A E. Not only does this shorten the neck making melody playing easier, but I can also slide the capo toward the bass side so every string is capoed except the high E, which has become D. I do the latter when I'm chording so I can get that droning, ringing open D sound.
Have to admit I don't like using a capo as I feel the tone of the instrument deteriorates. I have tiny hands, however, I really don't have much problem playing my 19 fret 22.125" tenor. Could it possibly be down to technique? Are you using three fingers to cover the first position? This is common but very uncomfortable and cumbersome. It takes a little longer to master, but using your four fingers works much better. It takes a while for your pinkie to get into the grove but once it does you'll be flying and in comfort.
Only problem I find is that when I play the mandolin I prefer to revert to three fingers for the first position, which means two different fingerings for the same tunes.
Hi Conrad. I think if I had a better quality banjo, I might be more concerned about the tone. As it is, capoing makes little or no difference tone-wise. If I ever get good enough to convince myself to buy something fancier, I'll make sure and get a 17-fret model.
I was convinced by some discussions on this board to go for the three-finger playing style. To be honest, the four finger syle initially felt more natural to me, despite a couple of years playing mandolin.
In the end of the day, it's mostly the 2nd or 3rd to 7th fret acrobatics on some tunes that leaves my left hand aching when I play capoless, and that will be the same regardless of a three- or four-finger technique.
The capo works for me, but I'm sure it's not for everyone.
If there is deterioration of tone when tuning down and capo-ing up, it is probably partly due to the lower string tension. It may be improved somewhat by using slightly heavier strings. But a shorter string-length will always compromise on tone - except, it seems, in the case of Grego's banjo, which might have a dodgy nut.
Hi Grego having read all the comments from the previous string I think Lars here is spot on. Just play what suits and more importantly just play and don't get too bogged down on the technical stuff.
I'm the only tenor banjo player on this rock so I have no influence from other players and having moved from mandolin I always used the three finger positioning on the banjo. That was until last August when I was in Galway I came across Gerry O' Connor's tutorial and video. He gives the four finger approach as the only one. I tried it and it felt very comfortable although I must admit it did take certain amount of re-learning the tunes. I find my self using this most of the time now but slipping into the three finger way when needed i.e where I need to hit the 7th fret. So why not have the best of both worlds.
One piece of Gerry's advice I couldn't agree with though was that we should be using the guitar shape pick and should avoid pointed picks at all costs. I have always used the Herdum triagular pick, they give a really clear tone and the triplets sound very clear. I percervered with the Dunlop .66 for a couple of weeks but just couldn't get used to, what was to my ears, a duller tone.
Banjo stuff: capo on 2nd fret
Banjo stuff: capo on 2nd fret
In Chris Smith's fascinating "resources" website, he/you says/say "I may start capoing up two frets and tuning a whole step lower." I gave it a shot on my 19-fret tenor, and it's nothing short of miraculous, in terms of comfort. My left hand doesn't ache any more, and the banjo tone sounds better if anything (probably because it's a Korean cheapy.) Thanks Chris! I'm interested to know if you or any others out there ended up adopting this strategy. It's doubled the fun of banjo playing for me.
[BTW, I loved your discussion on Hindustani music - puts the ITM learning curve in a bit of perspective, doesn't it? I got to work in Bombay a couple of times and heard some folks playing Indian instruments there that looked like guitars - at least in size - and their improvisations were mesmerizing.] Enough of that: I shouldn't hijack my own thread....
# Posted on February 4th 2004 by grego
Re: Banjo stuff: capo on 2nd fret
Sounds like a good idea if you find the stretch is a bit much. I might even try it out myself, although I'd imagine that it might be necessary to change to a thicker guage of strings. It'll be fine for first position playing but there's maybe a risk that I'll forget that I've got a capo on when playing up the neck. Still, it seems quite a good idea to try this until I can afford a short scale banjo.
I know others have retained the standard CGDA tuning and capoed the second fret too giving DAEB. You can play most of the Irish tunes this way but you lose the drone effect on the G string. Also, I know lots of tunes with lower notes so I don't really fancy this method.
John
# Posted on February 4th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: Banjo stuff: capo on 2nd fret
My tone loses it's peculiarly funky low end with a capo on, so I wouldn't swear by the technique, but my left hand appreciates how stuff just falls under the first five frets.
# Posted on February 4th 2004 by celtobilly
Re: Banjo stuff: capo on 2nd fret
I think if you have to do this type of thing to get a better sound, then either the instrument isn't that good, or (more likely) the wrong gauge of strings are being used. That's always been my experience. It's a trade-off really - you sacrifice tone in exchange for string comfort and smaller fret gaps.
One exception would be the 12-string guitar, tuned down two whole tones and capo'd on the 4th fret, simply owing to the amount of tension on those 12 strings.
Having said all that, if it works for you, go for it.
Jim
# Posted on February 4th 2004 by Worldfiddler
Re: Banjo stuff: capo on 2nd fret
I've never tried much capoing with my tenor banjo.
However, I tune my 23.5 inch scale bouzouki a whole step lower and capo at the 2nd fret bringing the open tuning to G D A E. Not only does this shorten the neck making melody playing easier, but I can also slide the capo toward the bass side so every string is capoed except the high E, which has become D. I do the latter when I'm chording so I can get that droning, ringing open D sound.
# Posted on February 4th 2004 by blowfly
Re: Banjo stuff: capo on 2nd fret
Have to admit I don't like using a capo as I feel the tone of the instrument deteriorates. I have tiny hands, however, I really don't have much problem playing my 19 fret 22.125" tenor. Could it possibly be down to technique? Are you using three fingers to cover the first position? This is common but very uncomfortable and cumbersome. It takes a little longer to master, but using your four fingers works much better. It takes a while for your pinkie to get into the grove but once it does you'll be flying and in comfort.
Only problem I find is that when I play the mandolin I prefer to revert to three fingers for the first position, which means two different fingerings for the same tunes.
# Posted on February 4th 2004 by darnoc
Re: Banjo stuff: capo on 2nd fret
Hi Conrad. I think if I had a better quality banjo, I might be more concerned about the tone. As it is, capoing makes little or no difference tone-wise. If I ever get good enough to convince myself to buy something fancier, I'll make sure and get a 17-fret model.
I was convinced by some discussions on this board to go for the three-finger playing style. To be honest, the four finger syle initially felt more natural to me, despite a couple of years playing mandolin.
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/2582/comments#comment50258
In the end of the day, it's mostly the 2nd or 3rd to 7th fret acrobatics on some tunes that leaves my left hand aching when I play capoless, and that will be the same regardless of a three- or four-finger technique.
The capo works for me, but I'm sure it's not for everyone.
# Posted on February 5th 2004 by grego
Re: Banjo stuff: capo on 2nd fret
If there is deterioration of tone when tuning down and capo-ing up, it is probably partly due to the lower string tension. It may be improved somewhat by using slightly heavier strings. But a shorter string-length will always compromise on tone - except, it seems, in the case of Grego's banjo, which might have a dodgy nut.
# Posted on February 5th 2004 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Banjo stuff: capo on 2nd fret
I switch around between three and fourfinger system all the time, and have no problem whatsoever.
when it's going REALLY fast I use 3-finger. feels more comfortable to me, since I
# Posted on February 5th 2004 by Larshansen
Re: Banjo stuff: capo on 2nd fret
Hi Grego having read all the comments from the previous string I think Lars here is spot on. Just play what suits and more importantly just play and don't get too bogged down on the technical stuff.
I'm the only tenor banjo player on this rock so I have no influence from other players and having moved from mandolin I always used the three finger positioning on the banjo. That was until last August when I was in Galway I came across Gerry O' Connor's tutorial and video. He gives the four finger approach as the only one. I tried it and it felt very comfortable although I must admit it did take certain amount of re-learning the tunes. I find my self using this most of the time now but slipping into the three finger way when needed i.e where I need to hit the 7th fret. So why not have the best of both worlds.
One piece of Gerry's advice I couldn't agree with though was that we should be using the guitar shape pick and should avoid pointed picks at all costs. I have always used the Herdum triagular pick, they give a really clear tone and the triplets sound very clear. I percervered with the Dunlop .66 for a couple of weeks but just couldn't get used to, what was to my ears, a duller tone.
Keep Pluckin
# Posted on February 5th 2004 by darnoc