I've been learning The Dark Island on a flute.
The transcription on this site is in G so I run out of notes when playing on my D flute. So I play it in A, problem is that the C# doesn't sound right.
C# sounds ok when I just play the scale of A, does anyone have any suggestions?
I also find something awkward about playing it in A , even though it is slow enough to blow the c# into whatever pitch seems right. I wonder if it is because it uses a highland pipe range (octave plus flat seventh below) and working into the second octave changes the timbre and detailed pitch relationships. G seems better at the top of the range but I don't like the effect on the melody of the E substitution much either. A "D+" whistle works nicely.
If you look at the discussion of the transcription here (http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/4906) you'll see that there is more than one version of the tune (and a dispute about whether it's traditional or not, plus a couple of different ways of putting the parts together).
It isn't that different, but most of the bars which do differ will either contain or be followed by C# if you transpose it up a tone. If you are used to this other version, those bars may stand out, leading you to believe there's a problem with the note. Try playing the version here without transposition, just leaving out the low Cs, and see if it still sounds "wrong". If so, maybe you'll prefer the variant (and of course you'll try it by ear before you take advantage of the cheat I've offered you )
Is your csharp flat? Do you have a CNat key? If both of those are true then opening the CNat key will lift the c# a bit. Otherwise you'll have to lip it. Try to establish which direction you think it needs to be corrected in.
Also, why not try it in D? I.e. the start goes AB | e3de2 | d3ed2 |B3AG2 | A4... That way you can play it along with the smallpipes in A
Hi David50, I think the E substitution works well enough as you're simply modulating your voice up instead of down - no major effect on the basic melody line. That said, if I play it on concertina, I go down to the C.
There's a chap I sometimes see at a session who plays a more 'elaborate' version and says it's closer to the original. I play along with him but can never recall afterwards what his sequence goes like. Must nail it sometime.
"and a dispute about whether it's traditional or not"
What on Earth do you mean. There was no dispute about whether it is "traditional" or not. You have got a composer's name, when it was composed and also who then added the lyrics. What more could you possibly need?
Ah come on, NCAF - many's the ditty has been made up that's based on an older air. Look at that dirge - 'You raise me up', probably grossed many millions and has a strong echo to put it mildly of Danny Boy or Londonderry Air, if you prefer. And what of Junior Crehan and his compositions, often linked back to older melodies. Never mind all the various classical composers who were happy to take folk music of the peasants and dress it up.
Both; I learnt it in C, and so play it on my english concertina; my partner has no trouble doodling along behind me on her C whistle;
and; although composed, it was written by someone who was working within the tradition.
I don't know when a statute of limitations starts coming in on composed pieces; with all the information we now have readily to hand on the internet, possibly things will remain known, as opposed to being untraceable legends, for ever.
What I can never do is remember, for the life of me, the correct original title. I know, look it up and write it on your cuff.
But the sets of words applied to the tune are abominations, and should be cast into outer darkness; IMNSHO.
Similarly, those applied to The Mist-Covered Mountains. IMNSHO.
This is the bit from the comments (originally from mudcat) that I was referring to.
"From George Seto: The information I have is that the song, Dark Island, was written by David Silver, and the tune was written by Iain MacLachlan, an accordianist. This was created for a BBC Thriller called the Dark Island, in 1963. The show was filmed in Benbecula, Scotland.
There is further controversy about this song. Alan Bell wrote words to what he believed was a traditional tune. Also, Stewart Ross of Inverness, Scotland wrote a very well known version of the song in 1963, after being assured that the tune was traditional. There were at least 4 English lyrics that were written in the 60's to versions of the tune. The Ross words were written to a very different version of the tune and are not a straight fit to the accordian tune.
Note: (From Stewart Ross' son) "There were no other words to the tune before my father's were written. David Silver wrote a set of lyrics in response to my father's appearing first - and has been paid and very usually credited for both lyrical versions. The tune had been played on the Scottish music circuit before being formally copyrighted and had earlier titles including Dr. MacKay's Farewell to Creagorry and Dr. McInnes's farewell to South Uist."
'Dispute' may have been a poor choice of word, but there is, if the above is correct, evidence that there is 'disagreement ' about the source of the tune. That's what I meant. (And there's a couple of titles for you, Guernsey Pete!)
It was definitely written by Iain MacLachlan although, as you note, there are plenty of examples of people getting the credits wrong for this tune or that tune.
I'm a flautist, c sharp is a tricky note to get sounding in tune in general. It may help if I knew what type of flute you where playing? If its wooden then it could be likely your flute is slightly out of tune. Finding this out is very tricky. If you are playing a metal flute then you'll just have to practice playing C sharp in tune by altering your embouchure slightly.
Most of all - although it may seem out of place now to your ears it is a tricky note to get bang on all the time. Just try and tune it while your playing.
c# doesn't sound in tune
c# doesn't sound in tune
I've been learning The Dark Island on a flute.
The transcription on this site is in G so I run out of notes when playing on my D flute. So I play it in A, problem is that the C# doesn't sound right.
C# sounds ok when I just play the scale of A, does anyone have any suggestions?
thanks
Fiona
# Posted on September 15th 2011 by Fiona A
Re: c# doesn't sound in tune
I'd usually play it in G on a D flute and just substitute an E for the low C. Keeps the flow going.
# Posted on September 15th 2011 by the wounded hussar
Re: c# doesn't sound in tune
I also find something awkward about playing it in A , even though it is slow enough to blow the c# into whatever pitch seems right. I wonder if it is because it uses a highland pipe range (octave plus flat seventh below) and working into the second octave changes the timbre and detailed pitch relationships. G seems better at the top of the range but I don't like the effect on the melody of the E substitution much either. A "D+" whistle works nicely.
# Posted on September 15th 2011 by David50
Re: c# doesn't sound in tune
If you look at the discussion of the transcription here (http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/4906) you'll see that there is more than one version of the tune (and a dispute about whether it's traditional or not, plus a couple of different ways of putting the parts together).
)
The version I'm familiar with can be found here:
http://8notes.com/scores/4136.asp
It isn't that different, but most of the bars which do differ will either contain or be followed by C# if you transpose it up a tone. If you are used to this other version, those bars may stand out, leading you to believe there's a problem with the note. Try playing the version here without transposition, just leaving out the low Cs, and see if it still sounds "wrong". If so, maybe you'll prefer the variant (and of course you'll try it by ear before you take advantage of the cheat I've offered you
# Posted on September 15th 2011 by Slightly Mad Scientist
Re: c# doesn't sound in tune
Is your csharp flat? Do you have a CNat key? If both of those are true then opening the CNat key will lift the c# a bit. Otherwise you'll have to lip it. Try to establish which direction you think it needs to be corrected in.
Also, why not try it in D? I.e. the start goes AB | e3de2 | d3ed2 |B3AG2 | A4... That way you can play it along with the smallpipes in A
# Posted on September 16th 2011 by Crackpot
Re: c# doesn't sound in tune
Oh, and I am talking about the version on 8Notes.com that Slightly Mad mentions.
# Posted on September 16th 2011 by Crackpot
Re: c# doesn't sound in tune
Hi David50, I think the E substitution works well enough as you're simply modulating your voice up instead of down - no major effect on the basic melody line. That said, if I play it on concertina, I go down to the C.
There's a chap I sometimes see at a session who plays a more 'elaborate' version and says it's closer to the original. I play along with him but can never recall afterwards what his sequence goes like. Must nail it sometime.
# Posted on September 16th 2011 by the wounded hussar
Re: c# doesn't sound in tune
"and a dispute about whether it's traditional or not"
What on Earth do you mean. There was no dispute about whether it is "traditional" or not. You have got a composer's name, when it was composed and also who then added the lyrics. What more could you possibly need?
# Posted on September 16th 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: c# doesn't sound in tune
Ah come on, NCAF - many's the ditty has been made up that's based on an older air. Look at that dirge - 'You raise me up', probably grossed many millions and has a strong echo to put it mildly of Danny Boy or Londonderry Air, if you prefer. And what of Junior Crehan and his compositions, often linked back to older melodies. Never mind all the various classical composers who were happy to take folk music of the peasants and dress it up.
# Posted on September 16th 2011 by the wounded hussar
Re: c# doesn't sound in tune
Both; I learnt it in C, and so play it on my english concertina; my partner has no trouble doodling along behind me on her C whistle;
and; although composed, it was written by someone who was working within the tradition.
I don't know when a statute of limitations starts coming in on composed pieces; with all the information we now have readily to hand on the internet, possibly things will remain known, as opposed to being untraceable legends, for ever.
What I can never do is remember, for the life of me, the correct original title. I know, look it up and write it on your cuff.
But the sets of words applied to the tune are abominations, and should be cast into outer darkness; IMNSHO.
Similarly, those applied to The Mist-Covered Mountains. IMNSHO.
# Posted on September 16th 2011 by Guernsey Pete
Re: c# doesn't sound in tune
@ No Cause for Alarm:
This is the bit from the comments (originally from mudcat) that I was referring to.
"From George Seto: The information I have is that the song, Dark Island, was written by David Silver, and the tune was written by Iain MacLachlan, an accordianist. This was created for a BBC Thriller called the Dark Island, in 1963. The show was filmed in Benbecula, Scotland.
There is further controversy about this song. Alan Bell wrote words to what he believed was a traditional tune. Also, Stewart Ross of Inverness, Scotland wrote a very well known version of the song in 1963, after being assured that the tune was traditional. There were at least 4 English lyrics that were written in the 60's to versions of the tune. The Ross words were written to a very different version of the tune and are not a straight fit to the accordian tune.
Note: (From Stewart Ross' son) "There were no other words to the tune before my father's were written. David Silver wrote a set of lyrics in response to my father's appearing first - and has been paid and very usually credited for both lyrical versions. The tune had been played on the Scottish music circuit before being formally copyrighted and had earlier titles including Dr. MacKay's Farewell to Creagorry and Dr. McInnes's farewell to South Uist."
'Dispute' may have been a poor choice of word, but there is, if the above is correct, evidence that there is 'disagreement ' about the source of the tune. That's what I meant. (And there's a couple of titles for you, Guernsey Pete!)
# Posted on September 16th 2011 by Slightly Mad Scientist
Re: c# doesn't sound in tune
It was definitely written by Iain MacLachlan although, as you note, there are plenty of examples of people getting the credits wrong for this tune or that tune.
# Posted on September 16th 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: c# doesn't sound in tune
As crackpot said - try it in D. Here's the abc
X: 1
T:Dark Island, The
M:3/4
L:1/8
K:D
AB|e3B e2|d3e d2|B3A G2|A4 de|\
f3e d2|da3 A2|f3a f2|e4 A-B|
e3B e2|d3e d2|B3A G2|A4 de|\
f3A a-f|e3A f-e|d3d d2|d4 fg|
a3A A2|f3e d2|BG3 B2|A4 de|\
f3e d2|da3 A2|f3a f2|e4 AB|
e3B e2|d3e d2|B3A G2|A4 d-e|\
f3A a-f|e3A f-e|d3d d2|d4||
If you copy this into the following link and press submit, the dots will magically appear (if that's what you need).
http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html
# Posted on September 16th 2011 by Toppish
Re: c# doesn't sound in tune...
IT NEVER DOES.
The whole point is to beguile the listener by any means deemed worthwhile that this doesn't matter and is part of the discreet charm of the music.
# Posted on September 17th 2011 by nicholas
Re: c# doesn't sound in tune
Hello Fiona ,
I'm a flautist, c sharp is a tricky note to get sounding in tune in general. It may help if I knew what type of flute you where playing? If its wooden then it could be likely your flute is slightly out of tune. Finding this out is very tricky. If you are playing a metal flute then you'll just have to practice playing C sharp in tune by altering your embouchure slightly.
Most of all - although it may seem out of place now to your ears it is a tricky note to get bang on all the time. Just try and tune it while your playing.
good luck!
# Posted on September 19th 2011 by szifty