Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Speaking as a guitarist who also plays mandolin, fiddle and banjo, ask them to stop playing. It's what I would do with anyone who noodles obtrusively on any instrument.
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Mandolin players who don't know the chords, or can't feel the rhythm are worse in my opinion. They are inaudible until you start banging chords on em. then they carry over everything else making it difficult for folks playing the tune to stay together.
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Haven't seen many recipes online for freshly boiled guitarist. I suppose best to treat same way as lobster. Hitler would agonise over whether lobster felt pain when being boiled, assuming it had some degree of intelligence, but no worries in that respect with guitarists. Feel free to boil, poach, fry with shallots and mushrooms, and so on but make sure you remove the sharp stringy boney guitarry bits - but those can be composted. No need to kill it beforehand as it feels no pain, just throw it into the pot.
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Mandolin players -- mmm, yummee, usually younger, more tender meat. Very often fat around the hams and bingo wings. Sweet meats in better supply than guitarists, but liver is often tough, due to abuse approaching normal human musicians. Best to boil slowly to retain full flavour.
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Having said that, I have sometimes encountered the reverse problem - a tune player who wants to be accompanied and is convinced that the mandolin player is the one for the job (presumably because the instrument has frets?)
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
The session I go to meets in the back room of a music store, so I realize this is a somewhat different setting than a pub, but we have on occasion stopped and said something like ,"you know that chord in beginning of the B part doesn't sound quite right why don't you try an Em" and then try the tune again.
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Boots, I guess it's hard to comment seeing as I don't know how well you know the guy, but as a guitarist I probably wouldn't like to be stopped mid tune and would probably be put off playing anything at all next time, I think the suggestion above of asking to borrow the guitar would be good. Or maybe that feedback after the tune, or even a comment like "where you play that chord, I've heard my friend play an Em, it really makes the tune sound quite different"
Once in Taafe's in Galway, I was accompanying an A flattened 7th tune and missed the flattened 7th part, the banjo and fiddle player seemed to exaggerate the note that flattened the tune the 3rd time while eyeballing me so I looked puzzled and tried something like F#m, realise that was wrong too, so after the tune he explained "I think a G chord would have worked better there" and I go it straight away.
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
When there are enough musicians at the local sessions, I feel as if I am inaudible and I don't even play guitar.
Although this subject has been discussed to death already, I guess we can kill it again very slowly and painfully.
Don't stick your neck out for the person who mentioned "Loppers".
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
@fiddlelearner:
A lopper (maybe it's called something else in America, if that's where you live) is really a stout, heavy-duty pair of shears for cutting through twigs or minor branches up to an inch or so across - i.e., too thick to cut through with secateurs or ordinary shears.
A crazed madman with a pair of these in a session could wreak absolute havoc with instruments and players' musical prospects. But I don't think they are very good at cutting hair.
They might be better at cutting people's tails off. Cutting music-stands might damage them.
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Often times as a guitarist I am annoyed at chord suggestions. what I mean is folks insisting that I use a barred G instead of an open G, which I prefer. Despite this annoyance I have started incorporating more barred chords into my playing while still enjoying all the beautiful open chords that DADGAD has to offer. Also I think the capo is an important tool especially when backing the best of players. A guitarist should really have an attitude of playing chords that compliment the music best. accompanying Irish music demands of the player that they listen to all the subtle rhythmic changes in the music and follow the harmonics precisely, though it will always be a work in progress to perfect. Too many players maybe have given up on improving or are too busy with other aspects of their lives.
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Paudy: "Boots, I guess it's hard to comment seeing as I don't know how well you know the guy, but as a guitarist I probably wouldn't like to be stopped mid tune and would probably be put off playing anything at all next time..."
That also works. I don't think though that Boots was suggesting that they stop the guitarist playing. I think he was saying that they all stop and suggest an alternative chord.
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
The best thing?
Easy - Death, immediate execution, is really the only rational answer.
When the enormous suffering inficted upon the many by miserably wretched backers is weighed against some brief inconvenience to said guitarists' few friends or un-repentant relations, the choice is obvious. Extermination, for their good as well as ours.
Surely any of the point-of-view of the OPs example -
"play what they want as they are inaudible"
will not be missed nor mourned, and, further, being so de-sensitized to their fellows suffering, would barely notice they were being dispatched, being beyond feeling their own discomfort as well. Numb already, who would get hurt? "Mercy killing" does not seem to me a contradiction in this case.
So, in the absence of a guillotine, and lacking a handy keel to haul them across, garroting them with their own guitar strings seems the next best thing, and a kind of poetic justice to boot.
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Yes No Cause that's the point and at no time would one say "you're playing sucks " or anything like like that, it's more like "let's try it again but with this chord or these chord's... Again I know this can't work in just any session, but if it's about the chord choices and not the competency of the player it may actually be helpful. I've also heard guitarists say, "I never quite got that change", then we slow the tune down for a time or two so the backer can hear it, though I don't suppose this post is for those kind of players.
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
It's true. Even with a bunch of squeaky fiddles, napoleonist box players, and spiritually oblivious bodhran players-throw in a piano nazi or 2-guitars get poster a fender sratocaster and a couple of marshallsv if you want to drown everyone out
At that point you need Roadies if y0u need some affirmation about making a living at music
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Actually, you can get what you are calling 'loppers' in multi-tool form these days. There are a number of manufacturers who make garden pruners that fold up and fit into a small pouch on your belt. Quite handy for carrying to the pub to be ready for use in moments of dire need!
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
NCFA and Boots, yes I understood that all would stop and I knew you weren't directly saying "that's wrong" or anything, I just feel I'd be afraid to tell a guitarist at a session that I thought another chord would be better, I guess the setting is totally different though and you know the guitarist(s) receiving advice better than I did.
For my part, I was once told that my guitar playing may act as a good "mentor" for another guitarist trying to find his way. He realistically wasn't up to the standard at the session concerned and was probably an offender in line with the title of this thread. Depending on the session dynamic, it can be very difficult indeed to suggest to somebody that their playing is bothering everyone.
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
If I am honest I have found myself telling people the "right chords" on a number of occasions. It has not always been received well I admit but there you go. What annoys me though is when they don't believe me, ignore me, and carry on regardless. That is just rude.
Nobody should think themselves too good to ask for help or advice on something when they are struggling. It is the only way any of us are going to get better.
BTW, whilst we are on the topic does anybody have any chord suggestions for that stupid 2nd part of The Chicago Reel? I just can't get it.
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
No Cause, if you and I were playing guitar at a session or you were playing one on the whistle but I could see you had your guitar, that's one thing, I'd value your opinion.
On the other hand, I was once stopped mid tune by a banjo player who couldn't even articulate his tunes because he wanted me to play some particular chords he was used to hearing. The ones I was playing were definitely ok and it wasn't like we were about to form the next Lunasa that day so no need for the fancy chord changes, get the tune right first mate. My point is that it is difficult if you are not obviously an accompanying guitar player to suggest something to the accompanist you do have without offending him / her.
Even as a guitar accompanist, although I feel frequently that I could suggest better chords, rhythm etc, I'm mindful that at that time I am playing fiddle and feel I should worry about improving my playing first, not somebody else's. Of course if a guitarist was to say "I can't seem to get that second part down" I might suggest a progression I heard somewhere. I guess it depends how bad it is, and how much they're holding the other musicians back. If it's your session that also makes a big difference
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
You know, it has occurred to me that only on the internet would we read something from this Nicholas person, who we know nothing about, who is claiming to quote a person, who may or may not even exist, and may or may not even have said what is represented above, and spend our time discussing it. Talk about a hypothetical discussion!
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
If i can quote the much-missed Spike Milligan [ RIP ], a "guitarist who believes any chord will do" - [ and there are a lot of them about ] - "deserves to be shot with a blunderbuss filled with their own sh#te".
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
That's fine. By that stage I should have it sorted...
Thanks for the suggestions guys. I will give them a go. I do hear the 2nd part as starting on an Am but the first part is definitely in C so I am not sure what was going on in that video you linked to Paudy. I think the main problem I have been having is, as I am playing in DADGAD I am capoing on the 3rd fret and playing in A. That means that instead of a D major chord I would be looking for a B major which wouldn't be the first guess when playing at speed! I will have a go capoed on the 5th and see what that turns up.
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Probably should start another thread, but this reminded me of this. After playing backing and lead instruments for decades, I find the DADGAD players often tend to be non-committal about chords to the point where the melody loses its reference all together. Playing nothing would be better. It's that weird non committal movement of like one note in a chord on the 9th fret (or thereabouts) that is clearly blah and goes nowhere and lessens the melody even more. Long live drop D. And don't be afraid to play I,IV,V chords with some commitment if they are in the right place.
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Jon K, I think there's always a place for chords at a loud session or at a loud venue. Even for any kind of paid session, it just sounds way better IMO. But, for a standard tuning easy chord shaped guitarist that I am, I get a lot of compliments on my accompaniment where people say they notice that I really know the tune, which I do, so yes, there is a lot to be said for learning the melody.
No Cause, I could never use a capo to accompany as I'd have to think in a different key to what I'm playing! So you're a level above how I can think as regards accompaniment!
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Well said, saltcast. Yeah, I don't like that typical DADGAD mush either. Fortunately, and it should be said, not everyone who plays DADGAD resorts to the mush. A (very) few of them can play.
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
"Jon K, I think there's always a place for chords at a loud session or at a loud venue."
Fair enough - but there's no place for me there. If I can't hear the music, I'm out.
For my taste the best advice I can give to a guitarist is, take up the whistle, and the best advice I can give to a whistle player is, don't play the guitar.
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
There is no one style of tuning that creates more or less bad accompaniment. Good players get good results out of their instrument no matter how it is tuned. Although, each tuning does have its own cliches that poor players are prone to produce, the 'mushy' DADGAD approach being one of them.
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
I'm getting increasingly cranky about playing sessions in loud venues where I can't hear a note, chords or no. I like a good accompanist as much as anyone, but if the session NEEDS an accompanist, it's probably a relatively crap session.
What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
I overheard someone say " when you get more than half a dozen people in a session guitarists can play what they want as they are inaudible"
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by Nicholas Jelinek
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Speaking as a guitarist who also plays mandolin, fiddle and banjo, ask them to stop playing. It's what I would do with anyone who noodles obtrusively on any instrument.
However, hasn't this been done to death?
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by Rob
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
People like this are not guitarists any more than people who own stoves are chefs.
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by Steve L
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Contract killing. It's _always_ the answer.
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by Mark Harmer
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Duct tape.
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by Tracie
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Ask can you play it, and then just dont give it back!
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by podge
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Loppers.
For necks, I mean, not fingers.
For guitar necks, I mean, not guitarists' necks.
If they want to play something inaudible in sessions, tell them it's got to be a mandolin.
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by nicholas
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
A captive bolt pistol usually works.
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by Seosamh Ui Sinan
Re: What is the best thing ...
There's a few more suggestions in these discussions;
Re: Conversion of a reformed random-chord player (Dublin)
Posted on November 23rd 2004 by Donough
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/5037/comments#comment105849
Re: Fretted favourites ~
Posted on March 18th 2008 by llig leahcim
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/17079#comment355192
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
Posted on March 23rd 2008 by fidkid
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/17130#comment356291
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by Batgirl has left the GPL ;)
Link correction
Re: Conversion of a reformed random-chord player (Dublin)
Posted on November 23rd 2004 by Donough
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/5037/comments#comment105967
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by Batgirl has left the GPL ;)
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Mandolin players who don't know the chords, or can't feel the rhythm are worse in my opinion. They are inaudible until you start banging chords on em. then they carry over everything else making it difficult for folks playing the tune to stay together.
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by Earl Cameron
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Q: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do?
A: Tell them that they'll need to be a little narrower and selective in their selection criteria if they want to be in the gang.
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Haven't seen many recipes online for freshly boiled guitarist. I suppose best to treat same way as lobster. Hitler would agonise over whether lobster felt pain when being boiled, assuming it had some degree of intelligence, but no worries in that respect with guitarists. Feel free to boil, poach, fry with shallots and mushrooms, and so on but make sure you remove the sharp stringy boney guitarry bits - but those can be composted. No need to kill it beforehand as it feels no pain, just throw it into the pot.
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by Rudall the time
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
@Earl - Mandolin players who play chords are a problem in this music. Right chords are not as offensive as wrong ones, but it's a close call.
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by DaveL35
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Mandolin players -- mmm, yummee, usually younger, more tender meat. Very often fat around the hams and bingo wings. Sweet meats in better supply than guitarists, but liver is often tough, due to abuse approaching normal human musicians. Best to boil slowly to retain full flavour.
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by Rudall the time
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Having said that, I have sometimes encountered the reverse problem - a tune player who wants to be accompanied and is convinced that the mandolin player is the one for the job (presumably because the instrument has frets?)
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by DaveL35
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
The session I go to meets in the back room of a music store, so I realize this is a somewhat different setting than a pub, but we have on occasion stopped and said something like ,"you know that chord in beginning of the B part doesn't sound quite right why don't you try an Em" and then try the tune again.
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by Boots MacAllen
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Wow, ya'll are aggressive! lol. Duct tape? Pistols? "Ask can you play it, and then don't give it back!" Lol, funny stuff. What's a Lopper?
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-50678-Heavy-Duty-Telescopic-Loppers/dp/B00023T90C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315084808&sr=8-1
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loppers
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by Slightly Mad Scientist
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Boots, I guess it's hard to comment seeing as I don't know how well you know the guy, but as a guitarist I probably wouldn't like to be stopped mid tune and would probably be put off playing anything at all next time, I think the suggestion above of asking to borrow the guitar would be good. Or maybe that feedback after the tune, or even a comment like "where you play that chord, I've heard my friend play an Em, it really makes the tune sound quite different"
Once in Taafe's in Galway, I was accompanying an A flattened 7th tune and missed the flattened 7th part, the banjo and fiddle player seemed to exaggerate the note that flattened the tune the 3rd time while eyeballing me so I looked puzzled and tried something like F#m, realise that was wrong too, so after the tune he explained "I think a G chord would have worked better there" and I go it straight away.
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by Paudy
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
When there are enough musicians at the local sessions, I feel as if I am inaudible and I don't even play guitar.
Although this subject has been discussed to death already, I guess we can kill it again very slowly and painfully.
Don't stick your neck out for the person who mentioned "Loppers".
Laurence
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by fauxcelt
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
@fiddlelearner:
A lopper (maybe it's called something else in America, if that's where you live) is really a stout, heavy-duty pair of shears for cutting through twigs or minor branches up to an inch or so across - i.e., too thick to cut through with secateurs or ordinary shears.
A crazed madman with a pair of these in a session could wreak absolute havoc with instruments and players' musical prospects. But I don't think they are very good at cutting hair.
They might be better at cutting people's tails off. Cutting music-stands might damage them.
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by nicholas
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Often times as a guitarist I am annoyed at chord suggestions. what I mean is folks insisting that I use a barred G instead of an open G, which I prefer. Despite this annoyance I have started incorporating more barred chords into my playing while still enjoying all the beautiful open chords that DADGAD has to offer. Also I think the capo is an important tool especially when backing the best of players. A guitarist should really have an attitude of playing chords that compliment the music best. accompanying Irish music demands of the player that they listen to all the subtle rhythmic changes in the music and follow the harmonics precisely, though it will always be a work in progress to perfect. Too many players maybe have given up on improving or are too busy with other aspects of their lives.
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by Earl Cameron
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Paudy: "Boots, I guess it's hard to comment seeing as I don't know how well you know the guy, but as a guitarist I probably wouldn't like to be stopped mid tune and would probably be put off playing anything at all next time..."
That also works. I don't think though that Boots was suggesting that they stop the guitarist playing. I think he was saying that they all stop and suggest an alternative chord.
# Posted on September 3rd 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
The best thing?
Easy - Death, immediate execution, is really the only rational answer.
When the enormous suffering inficted upon the many by miserably wretched backers is weighed against some brief inconvenience to said guitarists' few friends or un-repentant relations, the choice is obvious. Extermination, for their good as well as ours.
Surely any of the point-of-view of the OPs example -
"play what they want as they are inaudible"
will not be missed nor mourned, and, further, being so de-sensitized to their fellows suffering, would barely notice they were being dispatched, being beyond feeling their own discomfort as well. Numb already, who would get hurt? "Mercy killing" does not seem to me a contradiction in this case.
So, in the absence of a guillotine, and lacking a handy keel to haul them across, garroting them with their own guitar strings seems the next best thing, and a kind of poetic justice to boot.
Hope I have not offended anyone...
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by Piece
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Yes No Cause that's the point and at no time would one say "you're playing sucks " or anything like like that, it's more like "let's try it again but with this chord or these chord's... Again I know this can't work in just any session, but if it's about the chord choices and not the competency of the player it may actually be helpful. I've also heard guitarists say, "I never quite got that change", then we slow the tune down for a time or two so the backer can hear it, though I don't suppose this post is for those kind of players.
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by Boots MacAllen
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
It's true. Even with a bunch of squeaky fiddles, napoleonist box players, and spiritually oblivious bodhran players-throw in a piano nazi or 2-guitars get poster a fender sratocaster and a couple of marshallsv if you want to drown everyone out
At that point you need Roadies if y0u need some affirmation about making a living at music
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by zippydw
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
"as a guitarist I probably wouldn't like to be stopped mid tune and would probably be put off playing anything at all next time, "
Problem solved.
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Go tell him to Study what this guy's doing for the Music -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTiek_ZKLpQ
jim,,,
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by FIDDLE4
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Actually, you can get what you are calling 'loppers' in multi-tool form these days. There are a number of manufacturers who make garden pruners that fold up and fit into a small pouch on your belt. Quite handy for carrying to the pub to be ready for use in moments of dire need!
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
NCFA and Boots, yes I understood that all would stop and I knew you weren't directly saying "that's wrong" or anything, I just feel I'd be afraid to tell a guitarist at a session that I thought another chord would be better, I guess the setting is totally different though and you know the guitarist(s) receiving advice better than I did.
For my part, I was once told that my guitar playing may act as a good "mentor" for another guitarist trying to find his way. He realistically wasn't up to the standard at the session concerned and was probably an offender in line with the title of this thread. Depending on the session dynamic, it can be very difficult indeed to suggest to somebody that their playing is bothering everyone.
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by Paudy
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Just choose someone to shout all the RIGHT chords at them, at all the changes.
Before long, they'll either get smart, or .... get lost!
Cheers,
Dick
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by Ptarmigan
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bexIdm0awwo
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by ethical blend
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
If I am honest I have found myself telling people the "right chords" on a number of occasions. It has not always been received well I admit but there you go. What annoys me though is when they don't believe me, ignore me, and carry on regardless. That is just rude.
Nobody should think themselves too good to ask for help or advice on something when they are struggling. It is the only way any of us are going to get better.
BTW, whilst we are on the topic does anybody have any chord suggestions for that stupid 2nd part of The Chicago Reel? I just can't get it.
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
"What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do ..."
Anyone who knows the answer to that one will probably also be able to tell us what happened to the crew of the Marie Celeste ...
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
C | G | C | Am | C | D(maj) C | D(maj) C | G | C :|
Roughly, anyway ... See what you think ...
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by ethical blend
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Oops, sorry, that last one should be Am. Sorry.
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by ethical blend
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
You mean you don't know, Mix?
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by ethical blend
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Ask him about the difference between A mixolydian and D major?
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by JigsawGreg
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
No Cause, if you and I were playing guitar at a session or you were playing one on the whistle but I could see you had your guitar, that's one thing, I'd value your opinion.
On the other hand, I was once stopped mid tune by a banjo player who couldn't even articulate his tunes because he wanted me to play some particular chords he was used to hearing. The ones I was playing were definitely ok and it wasn't like we were about to form the next Lunasa that day so no need for the fancy chord changes, get the tune right first mate. My point is that it is difficult if you are not obviously an accompanying guitar player to suggest something to the accompanist you do have without offending him / her.
Even as a guitar accompanist, although I feel frequently that I could suggest better chords, rhythm etc, I'm mindful that at that time I am playing fiddle and feel I should worry about improving my playing first, not somebody else's. Of course if a guitarist was to say "I can't seem to get that second part down" I might suggest a progression I heard somewhere. I guess it depends how bad it is, and how much they're holding the other musicians back. If it's your session that also makes a big difference
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by Paudy
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
@ethical blend - I'm the only surviving member of that crew, but I still can't tell you what happened to the rest of 'em...
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
You know, it has occurred to me that only on the internet would we read something from this Nicholas person, who we know nothing about, who is claiming to quote a person, who may or may not even exist, and may or may not even have said what is represented above, and spend our time discussing it. Talk about a hypothetical discussion!
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
No Cause, how about an A minory sort of 2nd part with the F Em F G change also.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYDJcJaXges
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by Paudy
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
If i can quote the much-missed Spike Milligan [ RIP ], a "guitarist who believes any chord will do" - [ and there are a lot of them about ] - "deserves to be shot with a blunderbuss filled with their own sh#te".
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by Kenny
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Note to self: Play Chicago Reel next time I'm in a session with No Cause
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
It depends if they are from Limerick or not. Love the Spike comment.
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by Renée Adorée
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
That's fine. By that stage I should have it sorted...
Thanks for the suggestions guys. I will give them a go. I do hear the 2nd part as starting on an Am but the first part is definitely in C so I am not sure what was going on in that video you linked to Paudy. I think the main problem I have been having is, as I am playing in DADGAD I am capoing on the 3rd fret and playing in A. That means that instead of a D major chord I would be looking for a B major which wouldn't be the first guess when playing at speed! I will have a go capoed on the 5th and see what that turns up.
# Posted on September 4th 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Mark Harmer, that seems too harsh.
# Posted on September 5th 2011 by Batgirl has left the GPL ;)
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Probably should start another thread, but this reminded me of this. After playing backing and lead instruments for decades, I find the DADGAD players often tend to be non-committal about chords to the point where the melody loses its reference all together. Playing nothing would be better. It's that weird non committal movement of like one note in a chord on the 9th fret (or thereabouts) that is clearly blah and goes nowhere and lessens the melody even more. Long live drop D. And don't be afraid to play I,IV,V chords with some commitment if they are in the right place.
Salt
# Posted on September 6th 2011 by saltcast
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Or, and this may be a novel idea, learn to play the tunes and leave the chording for the big bands.
# Posted on September 6th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Jon K, I think there's always a place for chords at a loud session or at a loud venue. Even for any kind of paid session, it just sounds way better IMO. But, for a standard tuning easy chord shaped guitarist that I am, I get a lot of compliments on my accompaniment where people say they notice that I really know the tune, which I do, so yes, there is a lot to be said for learning the melody.
No Cause, I could never use a capo to accompany as I'd have to think in a different key to what I'm playing! So you're a level above how I can think as regards accompaniment!
# Posted on September 6th 2011 by Paudy
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Well said, saltcast. Yeah, I don't like that typical DADGAD mush either. Fortunately, and it should be said, not everyone who plays DADGAD resorts to the mush. A (very) few of them can play.
# Posted on September 6th 2011 by ethical blend
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
"Jon K, I think there's always a place for chords at a loud session or at a loud venue."
Fair enough - but there's no place for me there. If I can't hear the music, I'm out.
For my taste the best advice I can give to a guitarist is, take up the whistle, and the best advice I can give to a whistle player is, don't play the guitar.
# Posted on September 6th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
'Jon K, I think there's always a place for chords at a loud session or at a loud venue. Even for any kind of paid session,'
Nope, you're utterly wrong and confusing the needs of the musicians with the ears of the 'audience'.
# Posted on September 6th 2011 by MacCruiskeen
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
@Babs Gordon Fair enough. Spend 10 years teaching them about harmony.
Then...
Contract killing!
# Posted on September 6th 2011 by Mark Harmer
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
There is no one style of tuning that creates more or less bad accompaniment. Good players get good results out of their instrument no matter how it is tuned. Although, each tuning does have its own cliches that poor players are prone to produce, the 'mushy' DADGAD approach being one of them.
# Posted on September 7th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
I'm getting increasingly cranky about playing sessions in loud venues where I can't hear a note, chords or no. I like a good accompanist as much as anyone, but if the session NEEDS an accompanist, it's probably a relatively crap session.
# Posted on September 7th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
"I like a good accompanist as much as anyone"
Me too. His name's Bob, and I like him fine, he's a good fellow. Good fiddler, too. Maybe he wasn't the accompanist you like, but nevermind.
# Posted on September 7th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
oooo goody lets get into a needs vs aspiration discussion I like thos
# Posted on September 7th 2011 by bazouki dave
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Teach them the tunes so that the next time they play there is an improvement
# Posted on September 8th 2011 by palethinboy
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Just get them alone on a Sunday.
Then you can have your way with them.
Teach them to play.
# Posted on September 11th 2011 by dogmageek
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
You can only teach people who want to learn - this is the problem.
# Posted on September 11th 2011 by Kenny
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
The icy stare works. I should know. I'm the guitar player.
# Posted on September 16th 2011 by dave b
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
know if if yous didn't have the accamponaniment you would yapp and if you did have you would yapp, lol! you can't win
# Posted on September 23rd 2011 by boxrox
Re: What is the best thing to do with Guitarists who believe any chord will do
Advise them to retune to DDDDDD.
# Posted on October 22nd 2011 by Trevor Jennings