No, not a waltz, though some of it is in 3/4 time. If you play it as a waltz, it won't have the right feel. Think of it more as an air, or simply as an O'Carolan piece.
O'Carolan's tunes don't generally fall into the traditional dance forms, other than some jigs. For the most part they were songs, often dedicated to patrons.
I wouldn't consider it wrong to call it a waltz, even if it was not composed to be one. Sheebeg Sheemore is most always played like a waltz, so I'm not sure what "feel" it needs to have. It was written for harp and it was likely played much faster than in the video by Cara=olan himself. I generally don't care for his tunes played on anything but harp because I don't think they generally translate well, but I don't ask anyone else to subscribe to that notion. However, since Carolan's music is not ITM as we usually think of it, does anyone really know how it should be played stylistically?
If that feels like a waltz to you, then call it a waltz. To me, it doesn't sound like dance music, and playing it as a waltz sounds pretty awul, but suit yourself. I suppose we'll be playing the Carolan's Draught Reel next?
"Sheebeg Sheemore is most always played like a waltz, so I'm not sure what "feel" it needs to have. It was written for harp and it was likely played much faster than in the video by Cara=olan himself."
Well, it's not "always" played as a waltz. For starters, Bunting set it in 6/4 timing and O'Sullivan used his setting. I've seen it more often in 6/8. Perhaps, when you consider that it was composed as a song, you could try and adapt the tune to fit the words - first verse:
Imreas mór tháinig eidir na ríoghna,
Mar fhíoch a d'fhás ón dá chnoc sí,
Mar dúirt an tSídh Mór go mb'fhearr í féin,
Faoi dhó go mór ná 'n tSídh Bheag.
Bunting also suggested that the tune to the song was based on an older song "An Chuaichín Mhaiseach" or "The Bonny Cuckoo", which, if true, would make it a version of a traditional tune.
There are many O'Carolan tunes which, in my opinion, are suitable to be played as a waltz. It gives the great unwashed a chance to enjoy some lovely music whilst cavorting around the floor. However I could never see myself playing this particular piece as a tune to actually dance a 'Farmer's Tango' to. Much too sophisticated for that. I could however see myself tucking into a suckling pig and a good wine whilst enjoying listening to this particular piece.
Mr. O'Connor is a waltz or air in the first part, but has a jig (6/8) in the second part. The old original 18th century manuscript had it as Mr. Connor but Donal O'Sullivan (GRHS) saw fit to change it to O'Connor so that the English would recognize it as Irish (sic)!!
[Source: H p.17: 'Mr. Connor'. I have ventured to change the title to 'Mr. O'Connor' because the titles in H sometimes drop the O. In the original, the second part of the Jig contains 13 bars instead of twelve, bar 6 being repeated identically. This is dittographic and has been omitted.
This unusually long air, with a Jig, was probably composed for some important patron; but in the absence of the Christian name it is not possible to identify him.]
Carolan: The Life Times and Music of an Irish Harper, Donal O'Sullivan, 1958.
H = 'Compositions of Carolan' or 'The Carolan-Delaney Fragment' - originally thought to be published in Carolan's lifetime by John & William Neal, c .1721, but has subsequently, by way of the watermark, been dated as being from 1742 or later. Gráinne Yeats has argued that it is a publication from 1748 by (somewhat ironically) Denis Connor of Dublin.
How do you know this Connor guy was a Christian?
(Even it was Ireland hundreds of years ago)
Is it not safer to just say 'first name' or 'given name'?
I hate the assumption implied when people bandy around 'Christian name'.
I suggest that you take that up with Donal O'Sullivan, as he wrote it. I was just quoting from his book. The problem is he's deid. No doubt he had a good Christian burial.
What kind of tune is this?
What kind of tune is this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htolggwtluE&list=FLckq8z8gyi0614z0tiQahnw&index=1&feature=plpp
# Posted on August 29th 2011 by Surly Boy
Re: What kind of tune is this?
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/index/search?name=Mr.+O%27connor&type_id=&mode_id=
# Posted on August 29th 2011 by Wyogal
Re: What kind of tune is this?
A waltz by Turlough O'Carolan.
# Posted on August 29th 2011 by Ailin
Re: What kind of tune is this?
No, not a waltz, though some of it is in 3/4 time. If you play it as a waltz, it won't have the right feel. Think of it more as an air, or simply as an O'Carolan piece.
# Posted on August 29th 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: What kind of tune is this?
O'Carolan's tunes don't generally fall into the traditional dance forms, other than some jigs. For the most part they were songs, often dedicated to patrons.
# Posted on August 29th 2011 by Jim Quail
Re: What kind of tune is this?
Super.
# Posted on August 29th 2011 by Joseph Tailyour
Re: What kind of tune is this?
I wouldn't consider it wrong to call it a waltz, even if it was not composed to be one. Sheebeg Sheemore is most always played like a waltz, so I'm not sure what "feel" it needs to have. It was written for harp and it was likely played much faster than in the video by Cara=olan himself. I generally don't care for his tunes played on anything but harp because I don't think they generally translate well, but I don't ask anyone else to subscribe to that notion. However, since Carolan's music is not ITM as we usually think of it, does anyone really know how it should be played stylistically?
# Posted on August 30th 2011 by Ailin
Re: What kind of tune is this?
If that feels like a waltz to you, then call it a waltz. To me, it doesn't sound like dance music, and playing it as a waltz sounds pretty awul, but suit yourself. I suppose we'll be playing the Carolan's Draught Reel next?
# Posted on August 30th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: What kind of tune is this?
(oh, my goodness, it's listed as a reel on this very site... well, goes to show what this tune archive is worth)
# Posted on August 30th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: What kind of tune is this?
"Sheebeg Sheemore is most always played like a waltz, so I'm not sure what "feel" it needs to have. It was written for harp and it was likely played much faster than in the video by Cara=olan himself."
Well, it's not "always" played as a waltz. For starters, Bunting set it in 6/4 timing and O'Sullivan used his setting. I've seen it more often in 6/8. Perhaps, when you consider that it was composed as a song, you could try and adapt the tune to fit the words - first verse:
Imreas mór tháinig eidir na ríoghna,
Mar fhíoch a d'fhás ón dá chnoc sí,
Mar dúirt an tSídh Mór go mb'fhearr í féin,
Faoi dhó go mór ná 'n tSídh Bheag.
Bunting also suggested that the tune to the song was based on an older song "An Chuaichín Mhaiseach" or "The Bonny Cuckoo", which, if true, would make it a version of a traditional tune.
# Posted on August 30th 2011 by Weejie
Re: What kind of tune is this?
X:1
T:An Chuaichín Mhaiseach
M:6/8
L:1/8
S:Edward Bunting, 1840
K:D
A|d>ef fed|B2A F2A|A>Bd e2d|f2e d2f|
B2e A2B|F2 E/D/ E2A|ABd e>de f2e d2||
# Posted on August 30th 2011 by Weejie
Re: What kind of tune is this?
There are many O'Carolan tunes which, in my opinion, are suitable to be played as a waltz. It gives the great unwashed a chance to enjoy some lovely music whilst cavorting around the floor. However I could never see myself playing this particular piece as a tune to actually dance a 'Farmer's Tango' to. Much too sophisticated for that. I could however see myself tucking into a suckling pig and a good wine whilst enjoying listening to this particular piece.
# Posted on August 30th 2011 by Free Reed
Re: What kind of tune is this?
"in the video by Cara=olan himself."
Is that on youtube?
# Posted on August 30th 2011 by ...
Re: What kind of tune is this?
Mr. O'Connor is a waltz or air in the first part, but has a jig (6/8) in the second part. The old original 18th century manuscript had it as Mr. Connor but Donal O'Sullivan (GRHS) saw fit to change it to O'Connor so that the English would recognize it as Irish (sic)!!
# Posted on August 31st 2011 by jgaughan
Re: What kind of tune is this?
[Source: H p.17: 'Mr. Connor'. I have ventured to change the title to 'Mr. O'Connor' because the titles in H sometimes drop the O. In the original, the second part of the Jig contains 13 bars instead of twelve, bar 6 being repeated identically. This is dittographic and has been omitted.
This unusually long air, with a Jig, was probably composed for some important patron; but in the absence of the Christian name it is not possible to identify him.]
Carolan: The Life Times and Music of an Irish Harper, Donal O'Sullivan, 1958.
H = 'Compositions of Carolan' or 'The Carolan-Delaney Fragment' - originally thought to be published in Carolan's lifetime by John & William Neal, c .1721, but has subsequently, by way of the watermark, been dated as being from 1742 or later. Gráinne Yeats has argued that it is a publication from 1748 by (somewhat ironically) Denis Connor of Dublin.
# Posted on August 31st 2011 by Weejie
Re: What kind of tune is this?
How do you know this Connor guy was a Christian?
(Even it was Ireland hundreds of years ago)
Is it not safer to just say 'first name' or 'given name'?
I hate the assumption implied when people bandy around 'Christian name'.
# Posted on August 31st 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: What kind of tune is this?
I suggest that you take that up with Donal O'Sullivan, as he wrote it. I was just quoting from his book. The problem is he's deid. No doubt he had a good Christian burial.
# Posted on August 31st 2011 by Weejie