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'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
Whilst browsing in the local library recently, I came across a book 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' by Helen O'Shea. ISBN 9781859184363, which might be of some interest to readers here. I see a couple of passing references on thesession.org to it since it was published in 2008 but nothing of any great detail. Has anyone else come across it and what do you think?
Initially, I thought the book was another synopsis of Irish Trad, the instruments and regional styles but the reason I say it might be of interest to visitors here is that whilst the book touches on many topics, the main theme is that of someone approaching Irish Trad as an 'outsider' and whether or not they can ever get a truly 'Irish' sound to the music. It seems that Helen O'Shea (obviously of Irish extraction) is an Australian academic who has been playing Irish Trad for many years. She seems to have spent time in Ireland in the early 1990's researching trad music, mainly in Clare and over a period of several months. I'd guess that this formed the basis of some research papers which she then 'padded out' to make this book.
The first three chapters deal more or less with the development of Irish trad music and whilst covering fairly standard ground, touch on numerous aspects. Chapters 4,5&6 are probably of most relevance here. Chapter 4, Musical Pilgrims deals with the many visitors who come to Ireland either for a few days or a few months or years even and whose burning desire is to learn how to play trad like 'real' Irish musicians. She touches on their hopes and aspirations along with the tourism industry that feeds on it etc. Chapter 5, Lovely Girls & Good Men deals with the whole issue of gender imbalance in Irish trad. We may be familiar with the idea in the past that Irish women often played as girls but gave it up on marrying etc. but the author also shows that an element of male exclusivity still persists. One interesting aspect of this is the books view that the CCE fleadh competitions have greatly assisted in developing music for women as they've allowed girls an outlet for developing their talent that might not otherwise have been there.
Chapter 6, The Session deals with her experience over several months in Clare and elsewhere as an 'outsider' playing in sessions. She observes and comments on the many of the written and unwritten conventions, often discussed here. Has to be said that a large part of her anecdotal evidence is gathered in a small handful of East Clare pubs and is hardly representative of Ireland as a whole but nonetheless this chapter is quite entertaining.
Some of the book is a bit inaccessible, written in the language of ethnomusicology and my eyes glazed over here & there. But the central parts are gossipy, amusing and very readable. Does this book live up to its title? Is this some sort of definitive book - hardly, firstly because the subject matter is too large and secondly because the author is an outsider! In that sense, it's perhaps best seen as part of a kaleidoscope of views.
Incidentally, at one point she lists social network sites and notes thesession.org as being a BBC sponsored site?? I presume that the British Broadcasting Commission???
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
That's a bit presumptous of you Michael. There's no point in quoting large chunks of the book but she does conclude along your lines but also points out that many fall along the way.
Kenny, I'm sure you can do a library request, for a few pence and the UK taxpayer will buy it for you
British Broadcasting Corporation, of course!! On page 97, she refers to the 'BBC sponsored thesession.org'
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
That's true and she draws a parallel in places between some of the comment she gets from Irish musicians who've been immersed since childhood - comment that reflects poorly on 'outsiders' and those adult Irish learners whom she encounters and interviews.
Myself, I think the book is flawed because it tries to cover too many bases but nonetheless it's filled with much anecdote and experiences that reflect where many on this site are coming from.
Put it this way, you could nearly turn to any page and find the substance of a thread of argument that would engage many here.
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
That is to say, certain musicians she interviews, tell her that they can always tell straight away from the way they play, that another musician comes from outside Ireland. She then wonders can they tell the same for Irish adults who take it up later in life.
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
After seeing a documentary about feral children, and how they couldn't learn how to talk after a certain age, i'm thinking that maybe if our brains don't develop with this music, then we won't be able to develop the neural connections later on. Could someone more knowledgeable clear this up for me?
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
Read it and thought it was quite interesting, although I don't agree with all of her points. She has a very interesting take on Gender issues and 'otherness' in Irish traditional music. If you're into the social/cultural process of ITM it's very interesting. The book is more based on social issues, not the music itself. Interesting, academically based, not sure if it's worth buying but give it a go if you have access to it at the library.
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
Additionally, @ the OP - "Does this book live up to its title? Is this some sort of definitive book - hardly, firstly because the subject matter is too large and secondly because the author is an outsider! In that sense, it's perhaps best seen as part of a kaleidoscope of views."
I agree the title of the book isn't very appropriate, but I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that she's an outsider. Kari Veblen and O'Shea have written fantastic dissertations on ITM as outsiders. I think it's misleading because it discusses the social and cultural aspect of the Irish traditional music scene, rather than analyzing the actual music-MAKING.
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
Yes, that's mostly reasonable - see below for the caveat. Doesn't mean it's true, but it's reasonably consistent with observations about the brain.
I think it's plausible to think of music as a parasitic process which developed using the structures (rhythm, pitch recognition, meter) which we developed for language. It's not necessarily true, but it seems reasonable, and whether true or not the parallels it requires are in fact evident in the brain. We do in fact have incredibly fine sensitivity to rhythm, meter, and pitch, all evidenced by our use of language, and to repurpose those for a display of evolutionary fitness is a classic trick that evolution likes to play: "See how big a brain I've got? It's so big, I can take the most cognitively demanding activity we've got so far, and I can use it for a totally useless purpose, a purpose which tickles your sense of pattern, evolved to serve a totally different end. Therefore, you should mate with me".
In this model (which is not backed up by any evidence that I know of), music is basically a peacock's tail.
If you accept this model, you'd expect to see music learned in the same way language is, including the critical period effect. That is, we learn music very differently depending on when we're doing the learning: we absorb it directly up to a certain point in development, often assumed to be puberty, and after that we can learn it in a much different way, which is much harder and less effective. And there's the caveat: we can learn music after the critical period, just as we can learn language after the critical period. That would be, presumably, because we can leverage the connections we've already made for language.
So it's not true that we can't develop the neural connections, it's that we develop them by a different process, which is more difficult. If you can find a feral child which has no language, try teaching it some music, and we'll have more data to work on.
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
Yes, I agree with you entirely. The title of the book is misleading, even the cover image which harks back to the type of Ireland that she emphasises is mostly gone. Mind you, that was probably a publishers idea of selling it.
And it is about the social and cultural aspects of the music rather the mechanics but the former is bread & butter here on the session site which is why I reckon, people here would find quite a lot to ponder over within the pages.
Yes, she reflects on various groups that she thinks outside - whether foreigners, Travellers, Prods, women even etc. I thought her account of 'Anna', an Australian woman leading a paid session in a Doolin pub and charged with presenting Irish trad culture to the tourist masses was quite revealing.
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
Dia daoibh! Greetings all!
From a flute playing perspective, origin does not seem to have have impeded the music of Siobhan O'Donnell, Orlaith McAuliffe, Tommy McElvogue or Kevin Crawford now, does it?
Then there's Karen Tweed, Liz Carroll, Billy McComiskey, John Whelan...
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
As I said above, the author concludes that it is indeed possible for an 'outsider' to get a truly 'Irish' sound to their music.
The book deals with the swings and roundabouts of getting there, the expectations of overseas musicians when they come to Ireland, how they fit in, how 'native' Irish musicians view 'outsiders' both at festivals and at other times of the year, the tourism industry, nationalism, gender, racism, discrimination etc. The politics and social process around the whole thing.
Since many thesession.orgers are from outside Ireland, I'm simply saying that you might find it of interest in that it is written from your perspective, varied though they may be and flawed and all as the book is.
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
There's some confusion here about what we mean by 'outsider'. There are, after all, Irish communities on many parts of the planet, not just on the island of Ireland.
Brian cites the example of Kevin Crawford; though he was raised in Birmingham (England), he would certainly have heard many first- and second-generation Irish musicians in the houses and sessions around him. (I pick on this example only because I know the geographical area).
I grew up about 10 miles from Kevin, but my surroundings did not provide such examples - I still think of myself as an 'outsider' in this music.
(Kevin's huge superiority to me as a musician is another matter - his immense talent, which I obviously lack, is a key factor here.)
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
If I recall correctly, the author of the book at hand, got her music in Oz from an East Clare musician who had emigrated over there - so first hand. Hence her familiarity with that style and why she came & stayed in places like Feakle, Clare.
I think she defines 'outsiders' more or less as anyone who hasn't grown up with Irish trad as a child in Ireland. I could be wrong.
So, I suppose in that sense, there are degrees of 'outsider'.
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
I remember her going around the Willie week one year, interviewing people. One day I came across her talking to Naka Ishii. Naka pointed at me and said 'you should be talking to this man here' she gave me one look and said I don't see why I should'.
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
Meditating on this 'otherness' designation, I'm surprised Irish filmakers have not yet come up with a tongue-in-cheek, or flat out noir treatment of the predicament of 'otherness' in Irish music. The film could borrow some of its structure from Night Of The Living Dead.
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
Hugh Laurie sings the blues, Miley cyrus sings nirvana. When the music is out there people from other countrieds or as above other genres will pick up and use it, some do it well, some do not. The ones who are serious about trying to learn the "authentic" version may end up creating someting new. And what is "authentic" changes all the time. Is it more authentic to pick up a style of fiddle playing from listening to a a 78 or from a cd. Does hearing it in clare or in cambridge make a difference.?
The likeliehood is that groing up in ireland in a family who play or listen to irish traditional music that you are exposed to more. plus if they started when they were five they have a headstart on adult learners both in practice and in hearing the music, You can grow up in ireland listening to elvis and not know much about irish traditional music. I feel immersion works for both language and music.
'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
Whilst browsing in the local library recently, I came across a book 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' by Helen O'Shea. ISBN 9781859184363, which might be of some interest to readers here. I see a couple of passing references on thesession.org to it since it was published in 2008 but nothing of any great detail. Has anyone else come across it and what do you think?
Initially, I thought the book was another synopsis of Irish Trad, the instruments and regional styles but the reason I say it might be of interest to visitors here is that whilst the book touches on many topics, the main theme is that of someone approaching Irish Trad as an 'outsider' and whether or not they can ever get a truly 'Irish' sound to the music. It seems that Helen O'Shea (obviously of Irish extraction) is an Australian academic who has been playing Irish Trad for many years. She seems to have spent time in Ireland in the early 1990's researching trad music, mainly in Clare and over a period of several months. I'd guess that this formed the basis of some research papers which she then 'padded out' to make this book.
The first three chapters deal more or less with the development of Irish trad music and whilst covering fairly standard ground, touch on numerous aspects. Chapters 4,5&6 are probably of most relevance here. Chapter 4, Musical Pilgrims deals with the many visitors who come to Ireland either for a few days or a few months or years even and whose burning desire is to learn how to play trad like 'real' Irish musicians. She touches on their hopes and aspirations along with the tourism industry that feeds on it etc. Chapter 5, Lovely Girls & Good Men deals with the whole issue of gender imbalance in Irish trad. We may be familiar with the idea in the past that Irish women often played as girls but gave it up on marrying etc. but the author also shows that an element of male exclusivity still persists. One interesting aspect of this is the books view that the CCE fleadh competitions have greatly assisted in developing music for women as they've allowed girls an outlet for developing their talent that might not otherwise have been there.
Chapter 6, The Session deals with her experience over several months in Clare and elsewhere as an 'outsider' playing in sessions. She observes and comments on the many of the written and unwritten conventions, often discussed here. Has to be said that a large part of her anecdotal evidence is gathered in a small handful of East Clare pubs and is hardly representative of Ireland as a whole but nonetheless this chapter is quite entertaining.
Some of the book is a bit inaccessible, written in the language of ethnomusicology and my eyes glazed over here & there. But the central parts are gossipy, amusing and very readable. Does this book live up to its title? Is this some sort of definitive book - hardly, firstly because the subject matter is too large and secondly because the author is an outsider! In that sense, it's perhaps best seen as part of a kaleidoscope of views.
Incidentally, at one point she lists social network sites and notes thesession.org as being a BBC sponsored site?? I presume that the British Broadcasting Commission???
# Posted on August 25th 2011 by the wounded hussar
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
" Can an 'outsider' ever get a truly 'Irish' sound to the music?"
Of course they bloody can.
There you go, I've saved you reading the bloody thing now.
# Posted on August 25th 2011 by ...
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
>>BBC sponsored site?? I presume that the British Broadcasting Commission
I'm sure I remember seeing a link to The Session.org on a BBC site somewhere. Probably Radio 2 folk music pages.
# Posted on August 25th 2011 by ian stock
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
British Broadcasting Corporation
# Posted on August 25th 2011 by ...
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
I've come across it on eBay at a cost of roughly £30. My interest ended there, but I'd borrow it if it turned up in the library.
# Posted on August 25th 2011 by Kenny
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
That's a bit presumptous of you Michael. There's no point in quoting large chunks of the book but she does conclude along your lines but also points out that many fall along the way.
Kenny, I'm sure you can do a library request, for a few pence and the UK taxpayer will buy it for you
British Broadcasting Corporation, of course!! On page 97, she refers to the 'BBC sponsored thesession.org'
# Posted on August 25th 2011 by the wounded hussar
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
Many Irish people fall too
# Posted on August 25th 2011 by ...
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
That's true and she draws a parallel in places between some of the comment she gets from Irish musicians who've been immersed since childhood - comment that reflects poorly on 'outsiders' and those adult Irish learners whom she encounters and interviews.
Myself, I think the book is flawed because it tries to cover too many bases but nonetheless it's filled with much anecdote and experiences that reflect where many on this site are coming from.
Put it this way, you could nearly turn to any page and find the substance of a thread of argument that would engage many here.
# Posted on August 25th 2011 by the wounded hussar
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
That is to say, certain musicians she interviews, tell her that they can always tell straight away from the way they play, that another musician comes from outside Ireland. She then wonders can they tell the same for Irish adults who take it up later in life.
# Posted on August 25th 2011 by the wounded hussar
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
No, no, forget " Can an 'outsider' ever get a truly 'Irish' sound to the music?" I wanna know if i could ever get as good as this young lady...
http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhaltaslive_306_7_all_ireland_u_18_fiddle_champion_2009_aoife_ni_bhroin/
# Posted on August 25th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
" Can an 'outsider' ever get a truly 'Irish' sound to the music?" ..... I'm looking forward to reading the chapter by Tony McMahon!
Cheers,
Dick
# Posted on August 25th 2011 by Ptarmigan
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
'I wanna know if i could ever get as good as this young lady...'
She has been at it for a while, musical family and all, AND she is doing classical training as well.
Here she is with her father, in a photograph I took in 1990:
http://www.uilleannobsession.com/photos/photo_ma.jpg
# Posted on August 25th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
After seeing a documentary about feral children, and how they couldn't learn how to talk after a certain age, i'm thinking that maybe if our brains don't develop with this music, then we won't be able to develop the neural connections later on. Could someone more knowledgeable clear this up for me?
# Posted on August 25th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
Read it and thought it was quite interesting, although I don't agree with all of her points. She has a very interesting take on Gender issues and 'otherness' in Irish traditional music. If you're into the social/cultural process of ITM it's very interesting. The book is more based on social issues, not the music itself. Interesting, academically based, not sure if it's worth buying but give it a go if you have access to it at the library.
# Posted on August 25th 2011 by jcawley
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
Additionally, @ the OP - "Does this book live up to its title? Is this some sort of definitive book - hardly, firstly because the subject matter is too large and secondly because the author is an outsider! In that sense, it's perhaps best seen as part of a kaleidoscope of views."
I agree the title of the book isn't very appropriate, but I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that she's an outsider. Kari Veblen and O'Shea have written fantastic dissertations on ITM as outsiders. I think it's misleading because it discusses the social and cultural aspect of the Irish traditional music scene, rather than analyzing the actual music-MAKING.
# Posted on August 25th 2011 by jcawley
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
Yes, that's mostly reasonable - see below for the caveat. Doesn't mean it's true, but it's reasonably consistent with observations about the brain.
I think it's plausible to think of music as a parasitic process which developed using the structures (rhythm, pitch recognition, meter) which we developed for language. It's not necessarily true, but it seems reasonable, and whether true or not the parallels it requires are in fact evident in the brain. We do in fact have incredibly fine sensitivity to rhythm, meter, and pitch, all evidenced by our use of language, and to repurpose those for a display of evolutionary fitness is a classic trick that evolution likes to play: "See how big a brain I've got? It's so big, I can take the most cognitively demanding activity we've got so far, and I can use it for a totally useless purpose, a purpose which tickles your sense of pattern, evolved to serve a totally different end. Therefore, you should mate with me".
In this model (which is not backed up by any evidence that I know of), music is basically a peacock's tail.
If you accept this model, you'd expect to see music learned in the same way language is, including the critical period effect. That is, we learn music very differently depending on when we're doing the learning: we absorb it directly up to a certain point in development, often assumed to be puberty, and after that we can learn it in a much different way, which is much harder and less effective. And there's the caveat: we can learn music after the critical period, just as we can learn language after the critical period. That would be, presumably, because we can leverage the connections we've already made for language.
So it's not true that we can't develop the neural connections, it's that we develop them by a different process, which is more difficult. If you can find a feral child which has no language, try teaching it some music, and we'll have more data to work on.
# Posted on August 25th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
Yes, I agree with you entirely. The title of the book is misleading, even the cover image which harks back to the type of Ireland that she emphasises is mostly gone. Mind you, that was probably a publishers idea of selling it.
And it is about the social and cultural aspects of the music rather the mechanics but the former is bread & butter here on the session site which is why I reckon, people here would find quite a lot to ponder over within the pages.
Yes, she reflects on various groups that she thinks outside - whether foreigners, Travellers, Prods, women even etc. I thought her account of 'Anna', an Australian woman leading a paid session in a Doolin pub and charged with presenting Irish trad culture to the tourist masses was quite revealing.
# Posted on August 25th 2011 by the wounded hussar
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
Apologies, that is agreeing with jcawley!!!
# Posted on August 25th 2011 by the wounded hussar
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
Dia daoibh! Greetings all!
From a flute playing perspective, origin does not seem to have have impeded the music of Siobhan O'Donnell, Orlaith McAuliffe, Tommy McElvogue or Kevin Crawford now, does it?
Then there's Karen Tweed, Liz Carroll, Billy McComiskey, John Whelan...
They're just some who come to mind.
All the best
Brian x
# Posted on August 26th 2011 by briantheflute
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
< " Can an 'outsider' ever get a truly 'Irish' sound to the music?" >
What about this Guy - jim,,,
http://comhaltas.ie/music/treoir/detail/new_york_fiddling_icon_andy_mcgann/
http://www.irishfiddle.com/andy_mcgann.html
# Posted on August 26th 2011 by FIDDLE4
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
Willie Kelly -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-hIaZuTPwM
a renowned "Clare" fiddler from New Jersey
# Posted on August 26th 2011 by Hup
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
As I said above, the author concludes that it is indeed possible for an 'outsider' to get a truly 'Irish' sound to their music.
The book deals with the swings and roundabouts of getting there, the expectations of overseas musicians when they come to Ireland, how they fit in, how 'native' Irish musicians view 'outsiders' both at festivals and at other times of the year, the tourism industry, nationalism, gender, racism, discrimination etc. The politics and social process around the whole thing.
Since many thesession.orgers are from outside Ireland, I'm simply saying that you might find it of interest in that it is written from your perspective, varied though they may be and flawed and all as the book is.
# Posted on August 26th 2011 by the wounded hussar
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
Can a white man play the blues?
Same question, equally pointless
# Posted on August 26th 2011 by harmonic miner
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
There's some confusion here about what we mean by 'outsider'. There are, after all, Irish communities on many parts of the planet, not just on the island of Ireland.
Brian cites the example of Kevin Crawford; though he was raised in Birmingham (England), he would certainly have heard many first- and second-generation Irish musicians in the houses and sessions around him. (I pick on this example only because I know the geographical area).
I grew up about 10 miles from Kevin, but my surroundings did not provide such examples - I still think of myself as an 'outsider' in this music.
(Kevin's huge superiority to me as a musician is another matter - his immense talent, which I obviously lack, is a key factor here.)
# Posted on August 26th 2011 by DaveL35
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
If I recall correctly, the author of the book at hand, got her music in Oz from an East Clare musician who had emigrated over there - so first hand. Hence her familiarity with that style and why she came & stayed in places like Feakle, Clare.
I think she defines 'outsiders' more or less as anyone who hasn't grown up with Irish trad as a child in Ireland. I could be wrong.
So, I suppose in that sense, there are degrees of 'outsider'.
# Posted on August 26th 2011 by the wounded hussar
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
I remember her going around the Willie week one year, interviewing people. One day I came across her talking to Naka Ishii. Naka pointed at me and said 'you should be talking to this man here' she gave me one look and said I don't see why I should'.
First impressions, eh?
# Posted on August 26th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
Maybe just as well she didn't, Peter
... as some of the pen pictures she paints aren't too flattering!!
# Posted on August 26th 2011 by the wounded hussar
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
Meditating on this 'otherness' designation, I'm surprised Irish filmakers have not yet come up with a tongue-in-cheek, or flat out noir treatment of the predicament of 'otherness' in Irish music. The film could borrow some of its structure from Night Of The Living Dead.
# Posted on August 26th 2011 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: 'The Making of Irish Traditional Music' - a book worth reading?
Hugh Laurie sings the blues, Miley cyrus sings nirvana. When the music is out there people from other countrieds or as above other genres will pick up and use it, some do it well, some do not. The ones who are serious about trying to learn the "authentic" version may end up creating someting new. And what is "authentic" changes all the time. Is it more authentic to pick up a style of fiddle playing from listening to a a 78 or from a cd. Does hearing it in clare or in cambridge make a difference.?
The likeliehood is that groing up in ireland in a family who play or listen to irish traditional music that you are exposed to more. plus if they started when they were five they have a headstart on adult learners both in practice and in hearing the music, You can grow up in ireland listening to elvis and not know much about irish traditional music. I feel immersion works for both language and music.
# Posted on August 30th 2011 by Uill Wind