Here i'm looking for a list of fiddlers and pipers that you would say distinctly represent these Counties. I've been to www.rocheviolin.com , but they don't have as many videos as they have links. Thanks
There's Johnny Doherty, Bobby Casey and Michael Coleman on you tube, more or less representing Donegal, Clare and Sligo. There are a lot of people making their living now by setting up as the living embodiment of various "regional styles". I don't think there's much to it, really. It's better to just enjoy someone's music for how it moves you and leave this kind of thing to the professors.
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound so negative. It's important to at least know what people mean when they refer to the regional styles. I think there's been a lot of discussion on this subject on this very forum, which should be helpful. Good luck sorting it all out.
I'd say you're better off looking for musicians you like, listen to their music and then and work out after where they fit into the whole thing. It will make more sense that way (and it will show you the whole 'regional' label is a relative perception to begin with)
I think that clearly identifiable Irish regional styles probably ebbed away in the dark days of the early to mid 20C when the music was at its least played.
What happened from about the 1950s onwards was instead a concentration on named individuals' contributions. (It's always been individuals, of course, but before, it was largely anonymous and ego free individuals who may not have travelled much.)
What we have now is instead of a Donegal style, a Tommy Peoples style. And instead of a Clare style, a Martin Hayes style, etc. This is not to say that these players were not influenced, certainly initially, by the remnants of the styles from their regions, but that for better or worse, their personal contributions to the way the music is played today now far outweigh the influence of regional style.
Piping is another matter and the Prof may well disagree with me on this (and if he does I'd be interested). I think that because there were relatively few pipers - compared to fiddlers and flautists - the influence of individuals' contributions as opposed to regional contributions is amplified. Also, did those few pipers not tend to travel more?
Navigate this musical landscape and see for yourself there's no one regional style but rather a bunch of personal and local styles that share certain elements:
It could be that the regional styles are gone, but you can trace
the older tunes to particular regions. The tunes that people play
help define the region. Having said that, when you don't live
in Ireland at all, anything goes. We play Clare, Donegal -- whatever.
I already gave you a list of top quality players and their free audio recordings, do you have them yet?
IMO Dont worry about regional styles, find what you like to listen to and find how you like to play.
"IMO Dont worry about regional styles, find what you like to listen to and find how you like to play. "
And knowing about regional styles can help you with that>
a) It lets you find new musicians and styles to listen to and perhaps find the way you want to play
b) Once you've found a style you like, you can then listen to more musicians of said style.
At a point yes STW, but at this early phase IMO, listen to the recordings, decide what you like , what resonates with you.
Regional styles is an interesting concept, from a player in the states Id expect their regional style[s] would influence their music. and that style will be influenced by their teachers and where they learnt surely? if your in Clare or Skye then pick up influences from the Area, maybe even adopt a style as your own... why not, but at his point, a few months playing. hed be better IMO finding the tunes and players that interest him and develop a style through this process. But yes otherwise your points are valid, fair play.
But even at an early phase it is still useful in deciding what you like. What if he never listened to Donegal music at all and then 10 years later was like, "Hey, what are these crazy crunchy triplets? I wish I'd known about them earlier when developing my own style."
"hed be better IMO finding the tunes and players that interest him" - ok, so he likes Mairead Ni Mhaonaigh, by way of an example. A list of players from Co. Donegal who play in a similar style wouldn't do any harm would it?
not at all STW fair enough . But as Ive already suggested Johnny Doherty, John Vesey , P O'Keefe, Bobby Casey,Paddy Canny. What more do you think is needed? Even given links to free downloads of recordings, 3 Bobby Casey Albums.!... Jimmy Powers, I mean if thats not enough as an Intro I dont know what is.
I already know i like Donegal fiddle. I wanted to see if i was familiar enough with the music to try and compare the styles to see if i heard a difference. Is this in vain?
Not at all, there are huge differences.!! listen to Bobby Casey ,John Vesey etc as Ive suggested. You didnt answer my question Jerone can you not download the recordings I linked or what?
As I posted on Jim's previous topic, just be aware that you WILL find certain players categorized in certain ways that won't jive with your ears, or you'll find categories that don't really accept the right players.
For example, you've asked for representative players in the Clare style. Most people would immediately recognize that East and West Clare are quite stylistically distinct (whatever those stylistic distinctions might be). So we'll say, who might represent West Clare music in a very broad way? Even the most recognizable West Clare fiddlers - in my mind, John Kelly Snr. and Bobby Casey - had dramatically different styles. I've heard a recording in which John Kelly remarks that the Casey family bore a multi-generation tradition of such exuberant, highly-ornamental music - definitely an entrenched tradition, and one not unknown to John but definitely distinct from his own. So just be aware that where you say "Clare," some people will give you examples from either East or West Clare, not to speak of recognizing the sub-groups within either region.
Ok Jerone, that makes sense. Well like I say, go and buy a couple of recordings when you can afford it. John vesey comes to mind as being Brilliant . get the free downloads, all your questions might well be resolved by that. and yes Danjo is completely correct, well said .
Where can you download any Vesey? I quite like his playing, have a radio broadcast of his trio too, and know of more audio held in the US Library of Congress or Chapel Hill Uni, but that's locked up until someone comes along with some $$$$ for the dubbing.
If you can't tell Bobby Casey from John Doherty, just pack it in. That's like being unable to tell Abba from Motorhead. Sort of. Suggest you listen to those artists while you're at it. ;) "Waterloo!" "Ace of Spades!"
I looked up a bunch of the players listed at donegalfiddlemusic.ie in the Comhaltas Archives, so as to hear some of Willie McKendry or Patrick Kelly. Interesting stuff.
That's what I thought you meant, piobagus. Once I mentioned how much I liked the Shanchie Vesey LP to Tom Standeven, John's friend and producer of that 2CD. "Bahh!" he said, or something along those lines; then told me about this fantastic tape of John he made in the 60s. Couldn't get me a copy, but told me all about it. ^: Good for Tom that before kicking the bucket he turned it into an actual commercial recording. It is a great recording; I like his piano playing, too.
There are some interesting comments on regional styles in this profile of Junior Crehan (by Barry Taylor, in Musical Traditions ... I hope that's giving enough credit where credit is due): http://www.mustrad.org.uk/articles/crehan.htm
Hard to say, on one hand there could be a case made for the collecting and re-introducing of many sets since the 1980s, and an increased popularity of Sean Nos dancing, brush dancing etc.
I also heard Michael Tubridy make the point that in collecting, and writing down, the steps for dances these dances became instantly set in stone. He gave an example of the Plain Set (I believe) as it was danced in south West Clare, which had polka figures in it. When written down the polkas somehow became supplanted by reels. Plain sets in South West Clare are now danced without the polkas. That certainly is an impoverishment of the repertoire.
On the other hand, I see sets danced at all sorts of social occasions, which makes me feel dancing is very much alive here anyway. And maybe it's all part of an evolution, things are constantly in flux,. Jackie Daly for example
mentioned one night as we played for the sets here he had played in Dan O Connell's the previous week and the dancers wanted their polkas so fast he was forced to play reels for them.
Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
Here i'm looking for a list of fiddlers and pipers that you would say distinctly represent these Counties. I've been to www.rocheviolin.com , but they don't have as many videos as they have links. Thanks
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
You could start here :-
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/27283
....recently posted by Jim,,,
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by gam
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
There's Johnny Doherty, Bobby Casey and Michael Coleman on you tube, more or less representing Donegal, Clare and Sligo. There are a lot of people making their living now by setting up as the living embodiment of various "regional styles". I don't think there's much to it, really. It's better to just enjoy someone's music for how it moves you and leave this kind of thing to the professors.
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by gwyguy
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound so negative. It's important to at least know what people mean when they refer to the regional styles. I think there's been a lot of discussion on this subject on this very forum, which should be helpful. Good luck sorting it all out.
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by gwyguy
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
I'd say you're better off looking for musicians you like, listen to their music and then and work out after where they fit into the whole thing. It will make more sense that way (and it will show you the whole 'regional' label is a relative perception to begin with)
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
I think that clearly identifiable Irish regional styles probably ebbed away in the dark days of the early to mid 20C when the music was at its least played.
What happened from about the 1950s onwards was instead a concentration on named individuals' contributions. (It's always been individuals, of course, but before, it was largely anonymous and ego free individuals who may not have travelled much.)
What we have now is instead of a Donegal style, a Tommy Peoples style. And instead of a Clare style, a Martin Hayes style, etc. This is not to say that these players were not influenced, certainly initially, by the remnants of the styles from their regions, but that for better or worse, their personal contributions to the way the music is played today now far outweigh the influence of regional style.
Piping is another matter and the Prof may well disagree with me on this (and if he does I'd be interested). I think that because there were relatively few pipers - compared to fiddlers and flautists - the influence of individuals' contributions as opposed to regional contributions is amplified. Also, did those few pipers not tend to travel more?
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by ...
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
Well if you want to start with the main Fiddlers
who Helped,,, influenced these styles try -
Johnny Doherty - Donegal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiehZZ2tXKg
Paddy Canny - East Clare
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBONRwNY77c
'' Bobby Casey - Clare { sorry no video } ''
John Kelly - West Clare
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga4qocQkH0A
Michael Coleman - Sligo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79ZJVV1CGz4
Hope these help you !
jim,,,
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by FIDDLE4
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
Navigate this musical landscape and see for yourself there's no one regional style but rather a bunch of personal and local styles that share certain elements:
http://www.donegalfiddlemusic.ie/index.html
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
I actually meant this page in particular:
http://www.donegalfiddlemusic.ie/westdonegal.htm
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
It could be that the regional styles are gone, but you can trace
the older tunes to particular regions. The tunes that people play
help define the region. Having said that, when you don't live
in Ireland at all, anything goes. We play Clare, Donegal -- whatever.
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by Hup
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
I already gave you a list of top quality players and their free audio recordings, do you have them yet?
IMO Dont worry about regional styles, find what you like to listen to and find how you like to play.
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KKIcByicvU
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
Dont Forget Sliabh Luachra
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeN4Vkj_Q9E
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
heres some lovely playing;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxdHa7Mm1io&feature=relmfu
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
Typical.
13 entries on the styles, plus mention of their demise, and not one mention yet of the death of the dancing.
Apparently my teacher was wrong about "look to the dancing" to understand this stuff. I seldom see it mentioned here in the context of styles.
But anyway, FWIW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ-ZmWfOCiM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ-ZmWfOCiM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lwduKIGTAI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUyJp7A0KvI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgH0ZrnU6mc&feature=related
And so forth...
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by Piece
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
Maybe it was because dancing isn't dead everywhere. I have certainly played hundreds of nights for sets.
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
"IMO Dont worry about regional styles, find what you like to listen to and find how you like to play. "
And knowing about regional styles can help you with that>
a) It lets you find new musicians and styles to listen to and perhaps find the way you want to play
b) Once you've found a style you like, you can then listen to more musicians of said style.
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by SmashTheWindows
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
At a point yes STW, but at this early phase IMO, listen to the recordings, decide what you like , what resonates with you.
Regional styles is an interesting concept, from a player in the states Id expect their regional style[s] would influence their music. and that style will be influenced by their teachers and where they learnt surely? if your in Clare or Skye then pick up influences from the Area, maybe even adopt a style as your own... why not, but at his point, a few months playing. hed be better IMO finding the tunes and players that interest him and develop a style through this process. But yes otherwise your points are valid, fair play.
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
But even at an early phase it is still useful in deciding what you like. What if he never listened to Donegal music at all and then 10 years later was like, "Hey, what are these crazy crunchy triplets? I wish I'd known about them earlier when developing my own style."
"hed be better IMO finding the tunes and players that interest him" - ok, so he likes Mairead Ni Mhaonaigh, by way of an example. A list of players from Co. Donegal who play in a similar style wouldn't do any harm would it?
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by SmashTheWindows
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
not at all STW fair enough . But as Ive already suggested Johnny Doherty, John Vesey , P O'Keefe, Bobby Casey,Paddy Canny. What more do you think is needed? Even given links to free downloads of recordings, 3 Bobby Casey Albums.!... Jimmy Powers, I mean if thats not enough as an Intro I dont know what is.
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
I already know i like Donegal fiddle. I wanted to see if i was familiar enough with the music to try and compare the styles to see if i heard a difference. Is this in vain?
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
Not at all, there are huge differences.!! listen to Bobby Casey ,John Vesey etc as Ive suggested. You didnt answer my question Jerone can you not download the recordings I linked or what?
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
I don't have access to my computer at all times so i don't get to look as often as i'd like. I mainly post from my phone.
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
As I posted on Jim's previous topic, just be aware that you WILL find certain players categorized in certain ways that won't jive with your ears, or you'll find categories that don't really accept the right players.
For example, you've asked for representative players in the Clare style. Most people would immediately recognize that East and West Clare are quite stylistically distinct (whatever those stylistic distinctions might be). So we'll say, who might represent West Clare music in a very broad way? Even the most recognizable West Clare fiddlers - in my mind, John Kelly Snr. and Bobby Casey - had dramatically different styles. I've heard a recording in which John Kelly remarks that the Casey family bore a multi-generation tradition of such exuberant, highly-ornamental music - definitely an entrenched tradition, and one not unknown to John but definitely distinct from his own. So just be aware that where you say "Clare," some people will give you examples from either East or West Clare, not to speak of recognizing the sub-groups within either region.
I hope that helps rather than hinders.
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by Danjo
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
Ok Jerone, that makes sense. Well like I say, go and buy a couple of recordings when you can afford it. John vesey comes to mind as being Brilliant . get the free downloads, all your questions might well be resolved by that. and yes Danjo is completely correct, well said .
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
Where can you download any Vesey? I quite like his playing, have a radio broadcast of his trio too, and know of more audio held in the US Library of Congress or Chapel Hill Uni, but that's locked up until someone comes along with some $$$$ for the dubbing.
If you can't tell Bobby Casey from John Doherty, just pack it in. That's like being unable to tell Abba from Motorhead. Sort of. Suggest you listen to those artists while you're at it. ;) "Waterloo!" "Ace of Spades!"
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by KLR
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
I looked up a bunch of the players listed at donegalfiddlemusic.ie in the Comhaltas Archives, so as to hear some of Willie McKendry or Patrick Kelly. Interesting stuff.
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by KLR
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
I bought a double CD Kevin...
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
http://www.copperplatemailorder.com/vesey.html
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
Ah ok, I should have said; ''get the free downloads i linked to earlier'' Sorry about that Kevin, I should have been clearer.
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
"Maybe it was because dancing isn't dead everywhere. I have certainly played hundreds of nights for sets.
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofsky "
Fair play.
I still think my point is valid.
(You did get my point?)
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by Piece
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
I did and am not too sure I'd agree with it, dancers from all over dance to musicians from all other places.
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
That's what I thought you meant, piobagus. Once I mentioned how much I liked the Shanchie Vesey LP to Tom Standeven, John's friend and producer of that 2CD. "Bahh!" he said, or something along those lines; then told me about this fantastic tape of John he made in the 60s. Couldn't get me a copy, but told me all about it. ^: Good for Tom that before kicking the bucket he turned it into an actual commercial recording. It is a great recording; I like his piano playing, too.
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by KLR
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
"I did and am not too sure I'd agree with it, dancers from all over dance to musicians from all other places.
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofsky "
Noted.
Do you believe there has been a "negative" influence on the survival of regional musical styles with the loss of much of the regional dancing?
Not looking for a scrap, mind you - I want to know more, and perceive that you likely have more info, closer to the source, than I might.
You thoughts, Prof.?
# Posted on August 24th 2011 by Piece
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
There are some interesting comments on regional styles in this profile of Junior Crehan (by Barry Taylor, in Musical Traditions ... I hope that's giving enough credit where credit is due):
http://www.mustrad.org.uk/articles/crehan.htm
# Posted on August 24th 2011 by Just a person
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
'You thoughts, Prof.'
Hard to say, on one hand there could be a case made for the collecting and re-introducing of many sets since the 1980s, and an increased popularity of Sean Nos dancing, brush dancing etc.
I also heard Michael Tubridy make the point that in collecting, and writing down, the steps for dances these dances became instantly set in stone. He gave an example of the Plain Set (I believe) as it was danced in south West Clare, which had polka figures in it. When written down the polkas somehow became supplanted by reels. Plain sets in South West Clare are now danced without the polkas. That certainly is an impoverishment of the repertoire.
On the other hand, I see sets danced at all sorts of social occasions, which makes me feel dancing is very much alive here anyway. And maybe it's all part of an evolution, things are constantly in flux,. Jackie Daly for example
mentioned one night as we played for the sets here he had played in Dan O Connell's the previous week and the dancers wanted their polkas so fast he was forced to play reels for them.
# Posted on August 24th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Donegal, Clare, and Sligo styles.
What tunes are those Jim McKillop is playing in that Antrim clip on the link to the other thread that was posted?
# Posted on August 24th 2011 by fiddlelearner