Our celidh band played for a barn dance last night ...
All in all, it was quite a good gig - except that at one point of the evening we had to play for a dance called "Red River Valley".
Anyone familiar with this tune? There aren't many notes in it, and the "A" part is almost identical to the "B" part.
We couldn't think of any other tune(s) to set with it, and we weren't even sure whether it would be appropriate to do so, in any case.
In the end, we just switched between playing it in DMaj and AMaj. We said afterwards that it might have been fun (if we were clever enough) to have started it in CMaj, then raised it by a semitone for each subsequent reiteration ...
I put it to you all that "Red River Valley" is the most boring and daggiest tune ever devised - or do you know different?
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
That's right EB - as in the song.
The first part equates to the verse of the song - the second part equates to the chorus of the song. They're identical, except that at one point of the second part you play a crotchet instead of two quavers! Such variety!
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Ah. I see. Thrilling.
Doing a gig with Peter Kennedy once - he was calling - and he insisted on us playing "My Bonnie Lies Over The Ocean" over and over and over ... We must have played it at least 20 times I should think. That can start to pall after a while, I can tell you. Having said which, it's amazing the variations you can find to put on such tunes when the need arises. I just reverted to the main melody whenever he turned round and glared at me.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Red River Valley is indeed boring, and I am only aware of an A part.
A ceilidh band I know and occasionally play with, however, combine it in a dance set with Oh Susannah and She'll Be Coming Round The Mountain When She Comes.
These tunes also are unbelievably boring, but the changeovers keep one alive and enable one to hang onto the fact that all tunes terminate, even if the ones that succeed them are worse.
The trouble is - as one experienced ceilidh muso put it to me - the common-or-garden and/or downright boring tunes are the ones the punters actually feel happy with, and more esoteric stuff just throws them out and has them standing around in clumps looking piteous.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
True enough, Nicholas.
Yes, in the past we've also had to play "Coming Round the Mountain", Oh Susannah and other tunes of that ilk
One thing's for sure, if you play in a ceilidh band (at least in England) you can't be a tune snob, and you have to be prepared to play anything that's called for ..
But the problem with a dance which is an American-style "singing call" is that you can't really switch to a different tune ....
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Longford Collector, Sailor's Bonnet and Coleman Cross always get my goat for having so many repeats of little snatches of tune. I'm always in awe of anyone who can do brilliant versions of these. I have much to learn.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
I agree Mix , that "The Red River Valley" is about as Daggy and boring as a tune can get. But I will say, with some bias, but without apology ; I think "Amazing Grace" is more so. You see, I was a Highland piper for several years....
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
There are a whole bunch of Americana tunes like Soldier's Joy, Over the Waterfall, Brighton Camp, Liberty etc that are as simple as the simplest polka, but played like reels, flat with no bounce, that make me want to slit my wrists. They're okay tunes if played in a bluegrass style with lots of free variation, but when they come up in an Irish session (and they do... oh, they do...) I could just weep.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Concurred, pipewatcher! That's another tune that I don't like, and played on the pipes, it's even worse! (and I like pipes). But the punters all love it, don't they?
Fortunately it would never be needed for a dance at a ceildh. So I've revised my original question:-
Red River Valley: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised needed for a dance at a ceilidh?
Talking of tunes unsuitable for pipes, many years ago I was a member of club that used to meet every week to sing traditional songs and play traditional music.
Once a year, for a bit of fun, the club had a "Bad Song Contest". Musicians were also allowed to enter as well, with "bad tunes".
One year, the competition was won by a Northumbrian piper. He played "Somwhere Over the Rainbow" - and he won the contest!
If you're still playing pipes, try it and you'll see why!
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Oh, I'ved played "Over the Rainbow" on the uilleann pipes lots of times ! Though never "in public" In G it works pretty well . Years ago, however, playing with a folkie , Waterboys-esque sort of band we played "Freebird" a lot. Whether in bars or at music festivals, someone would always yell for it at the end of the night, more as a joke or just a standard practise for the end of any concert. So we played it..... The guitar solo is awesome on the uilleann pipes, dude!!!
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Hi Mix, yeah I'm not surprised Brighton Camp is of English origin. No slam intended, it's just that many if not most "Americana" tunes are well travelled and of Scots/Irish/English origin.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
That main "Freebird" riff is fun to work in when someone's singing Fields of Athenry and the lyrics go "Where once we watched the watch the small free birds fly [mimic riff on fiddle, pipes etc]"
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Oh ye cannae shove yer grannie aff a bus,
Oh ye cannae shove yer grannie aff a bus,
Ye cannae shove yer grannie
For she's yer mammie's mammie,
Ye canna shove yer grannie aff a bus.
O ye canna shove yer Granny aff a bus,
O ye canna shove yer Granny aff a bus,
O ye canna shove yer Granny
'Cos she's yer Mammy's Mammy
O ye canna shove yer Granny aff a bus.
Ye can shove yer ither Granny aff a bus.
Ye can shove yer ither Granny aff a bus.
Ye can shove yer ither Granny
'Cos she's yer Faither's Mammy
Ye can shove yer ither Granny aff a bus.
Ye can shove yer Uncle Wullie aff a bus.
Ye can shove yer Uncle Wullie affa bus.
Uncle Wullie's like yer Faither
A harum-scarum blether,
Ye can shove yer Uncle Wullie aff a bus.
Ye can shove yer Auntie Maggie aff a bus.
Ye can shove Auntie Maggie aff a bus.
Auntie Meg's yer Faither's sister,
She's naethin' but a twister,
Ye can shove yer Auntie Maggie aff a bus.
But ye canna shove yer Granny aff a bus.
O ye canna shove yer Granny aff a bus.
O ye canna shove yer Granny,
'Cos she's yer Mammy's Mammy,
O ye canna shove yer Granny aff a bus.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Well, I could have sworn that Soldier's Joy was also English, but it appears to have been already absolutely everywhere in Europe at least by the middle of the eighteenth century:
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"Oh she's got a lovely country cottage...
Oh she's got a lovely country cottage,
Where the flowers in the garden,
Bloom like the Vale of Arden
Oh she's got a lovely country cottage"
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
You might be surprised, Mix, on a full set it can be quite faithfully rendered and tastefully enhanced by judicious use of the regulators. When I get my "whale set" (B) up and running I"ll put it on the Youtube ;) . Nobody might like it but begad I'll prove yes all i can play it! Hehheh...heh
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
@JohnJ - agreed - that's not so bad - you can improve the tune a lot by putting a ragtime, frailing or bluegrass spin to it.
Sure, it's just about passable as a song. The real problem arises from using it as a dance tune - especially as it's only effectively 16 bars.
If you analyse it, you'll find that most tunes that folks consider to be "daggy" are the melodies of songs, rather than being tunes in their own right ,,,,
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"Shaving Cream" by Benny Bell is so similar to "My Bonnie Lies Over The Ocean" that I occasionally get the two tunes confused and mixed up together. You could also call it "My Boonie Lice Soda Devotion".
In church, we like to play "Amazing Grace" to the tune of "Peaceful, Easy Feeling" by some band from California whom we jokingly refer to as the "Beagles" (better known as the Eagles).
"I was a Highland piper for several years" Have you completely recovered yet or are you still in therapy?(Highland Pipers Anonymous)
There used to be a mandolin player here who liked to play "Soldier's Joy" in D Major the first time through; in d minor the second time; and then switch back to D Major for the third time and last time through the tune. He jokingly said the d minor version of "Soldier's Joy" was how they played it in Russia.
As for the song about the Red River Valley, I have always assumed that whoever wrote the song meant the Red River in this part of the United States instead of the Red River which starts in Minnesota and flows northward into Canada between Minnesota and North Dakota. The Red River in this part of the country starts in the infamous Texas Panhandle and runs on the boundary (or maybe the boundary runs on it) between Oklahoma and Texas before it cuts across the southwest corner of Arkansas and then into Louisiana. I have crossed this particular river a few times either in Arkansas on I-30 (Interstate Thirty) or going north from Texas to Oklahoma (or going south from Oklahoma to Texas) on I-35.
I went to Google Maps and clicked on Streetview one day. Starting with the I-35 crossing of the Red River, I went upstream (westwards) and clicked on the Streetview pictures of each and every bridge which crossed the Red River most of the way upstream to where this river starts in the Panhandle.
After viewing the river crossings on Google Streetview and crossing the river a few times in person, I cannot understand why someone would write such a sappy, sentimental song about the Red River Valley. Yes, I was unimpressed by what I saw on Google Streetview.
I used to play with a guy who did a Fats Waller style version - at least I thought he did until one day he took his hands off the keyboard and it was still playing.....
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
I looked into the Red River Valley song and was surprised to discover documentation of non-Texas origin. As far as I could discover, it is indeed about the Red River valley of the north, which flows toward Manitoba, Canada. I grew up in Texas and around the Dakotas and never realized there was a continental divide near Summit, South Dakota, north of which flows the Red River. I believe the tune was from the Metis, and is often played around there.
As for being daggy, any tune can be daggy, but I think any tune can also be played in a way so as to be engaging...just maybe not in Irish disguise.
I hasten to bid you adieu...sounds more Metis than Spanish to me. Can't wait to check out some of the versions above, thanks Weejie.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
and just to make it clear, I don't do this at our session, it is a part of my Stabbin' Killin' Dyin' songs repertoire that is a collection of folks songs sung in America over the years...
We don't do songs (at least in their "song" version) at our session.
Note that the lyrics for the "singing call" are totally different to the song lyrics in the examples cited above.
Thankfully, our band doesn't play for square dances "per se". But we sometimes work with a caller who likes to slip in the odd square dance into the evening's programme (which is what happened yesterday evening).
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"Well, so has Lilo Lill "
When Lilo has been "covered" by such diverse folk as Woody Guthrie, Leonard Cohen, Judy Collins and Stevie Nicks, to name but a few, let me know! I'm not sure if that many people would know who the lady was, come to think of it.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Well, Red River Valley is not exactly exciting, but the dance is a good one for low level dancers and I can understand it being asked for. I used to call it back in the day...
If you want to get confused with the singing calls try the one for Red Wing. It is a nice enough tune but the call requires alternation of the number of times through the various parts and callers have a habit of asking for it in odd keys: "Red Wing in Bb..." or, one night "Red Wing in Db." The band had a G/D box, and a Hammered Dulcimer in it. The band leader said "NO!" and we played it in D. It is bad enough to keep track of the special number of times through each section let alone muck around with a weird key....
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
@cboody - We've also had to play Redwing a couple of times over the years. That tune isn't too bad - certainly it's a whole lot better than RRV.
It's been a while since we played it, but my recollection is that the dance starts with the chorus figure - which means that you have to begin it by playing the "B" part of the tune ...
As we're not a square dance band, we only play tunes for singing calls on sufferance. Assuming the tune is in major key, the caller gets the choice of GMaj, DMaj or Amaj - or else we won't play it!
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Blimey, Mix, that's a bit restrictive! C, F and E are OK, surely? (Well, I supposed it depends on what sort of box you have in the band.) And other keys aren't usually all that bad. We got asked for something common (can't remember what) in Eb once. No problem. Guitar moves his capo, whistle swaps to an Eb whistle and for fiddle it's not too big a deal. Voilá!
Mind you, I'd have drawn the line at Db. If the caller/singer can't manage just a semitone higher, it's a poor job, I reckon.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
daggiest English tunes - jimmy allen, salmon tails, winster reel, harvest home
The composer or "somewhere over the rainbow" had composers-block when he got to the B part.
......... Until a police car went by. (this only works for a UK police car) neee nooor neee noooor neee nooor neee nooor
We have to do Red River Valley with a sung call, but we entertain the musicians and p*ss the caller off by starting in E, and move up a key each time.
The caller is usually strangling himeself by the time we get to C.
Please try this if you have a melodion (or guitarist who insists on using a capo) in the band.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Well, to be honest, I don't have a problem with Harvest Home. I think tunes like that can so easily be played in an interesting way, as well as the often heard, slow & boring way.
There's nothing more boring, to my ears, than Polkas played in a slow, dull & boring way, almost like Marches.
Speaking of Polkas, there's nowt wrong with Salmon Tails up the Water, although of course I do prefer the 4 part Irish version: The Siege of Ennis Polka.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Yes, Mix, you are correct. In the lyrics of Red River Valley, they do say they are leaving the Valley and I don't blame them. It isn't the most scenic part of Texas or Oklahoma and it is right in the middle of the infamous "Tornado Alley" part of the United States.
I have never traveled as far north as the Red River in North Dakota and Minnesota. Come to think of it, I have never visited either of those states--yet.
When I play with the old time folk music group once a month, we always play "Redwing" in G Major and no other key.
Since most of the other musicians here don't seem to think I am a good enough musician to play for dancers or dancing, I don't play with any local ceili (or ceilidh) bands or for the local Contra(ry) dance group called the Arkansas Country Dance Society.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
I like the Red River Valley. We sung it in... 8th grade choir think. I like it more as a slow song than a fast one. The notes may be simple but the lyrics are actually pretty nice(to me). Maybe it's my Kentucky that makes me like it.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Kentucky is country and and very very Native American. The trail of tears runs through it. Besides, it does have it's own very very famous American Folk song, "My Old Kentucky Home". Oh Susanna, She'll Be Comin' Round The Mountain, all of these songs are apart of our tradition. That's what Kentucky has to do with the Red River Valley.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
... and not really "folksongs" in that they were composed by Stephen Foster, one for a contest.
No one these days would dare recite the original lyrics as they are pretty darn offensive.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Yes i am from Kentucky. I've only been in Texas for 2 years. And the "American Folk Song" is the connection. Because Kentucky is very American... in the most shameful of senses as you have pointed out.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
You know the original lyrics, then?
Glad you could make that connection, for yourself.
and I still think your original sentence makes no sense... unless you left out a couple of words after "Maybe it's my Kentucky (fill in the blank) that makes me like it."
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
i don't know what song you're talking about either. Oh Susanna, i remember had a verse or two... but that was back in my elementary school says. She'll be comin' round the mountain, the same. And the Red River Valley, i think i could find them.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Maybe you ought to do a quick google search then Jerone. Seriously. Then when you hold up these tunes as being a part of your heritage, you might find out that it's not the heritage you were thinking of.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"Maybe you ought to do a quick google search then Jerone. Seriously. Then when you hold up these tunes as being a part of your heritage, you might find out that it's not the heritage you were thinking of." wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"well, someone needs to educate him. I didn't go there first" wyogal
Well thats not how I'm reading it, and it's not your job. Jerone is getting all the education he needs so just desist with that sh*t on here, in mustard world. No matter who started it. You too Mix.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"Can't say I like where your headed with that."
I assumed it was a reference to the fact that these are not so much "traditional folk songs" as mid-19th century pop songs.... where were you seeing that going?
I love some Steven Foster (Some Folks is a great little one...) but he's hardly a source of traditional folk songs.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
I'm not the one that brought up those tunes, waving them around like they are the epitome of American Folk Music.
I don't promote those tunes, and have quit performing O Susanna because it is not my idea of a tune/history that I would espouse.
Some people on this board spout off with stuff they know nothing about.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"No man, except for a blockhead, ever wrote except for money"
-Samuel Johnson
It might be worth pointing out here Mick Moloney's observation that the American songs which established the "drink and fight" stereotype of the Irish in America were largely written by the same people who were writing the music for the minstrel shows. "Far From the Shamrock Shore" is a great record, and it's worth buying a physical copy, because the liner notes are very extensive and very good.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Interesting lyrics. Wow that was a long time ago. I'm not offended, that's just how people felt back in that day. "White" people have done too much for me for me to hold a 400 year grudge. Thanks for letting know about the songs though, but mind you, i didn't bring up the songs either. Maybe you should read higher up. On a slightly different note, they taught those songs to us in school, and taught that they were American Folks Songs. That's not my fault. Sorry i offend you so much Wyogal.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Most of the tunes listed here as boring are tunes which would have been played for what we used to term as a 'Square Dance' (jeans and check shirt affairs) and a Square Dance was never popular in Ireland. Consequently all our Ceili Dances were danced to traditional reels, jigs, hornpipes and such like. A boring tune that comes to mind for me is The Soldiers Joy with Egans' Polka a close second..
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Just because someone told you they are folksongs, doesn't make it so.
It's not that you "offend" me, you just irk the heck out of me, and I'm not going to coddle you.
You say you study music?
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
you don't have to "coddle", but you could at least treat me like a person. Even after you accused me of being a fake, and all your slagging and trolling, i still treat you with respect, and i will continue. But i would appreciate it if you did the same.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
What are your criteria for a 'folksong', wyogal? All tunes/songs were written by someone, and more often than not to help put a bit of bread in their mouth.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
We were taught those songs as well in elementary school in the People's Republic of Boulder, and they were usually located in volumes with titles along the lines of "American Folksongs."
But I suppose if we are going to venture into the realm of pretentious arguing about historical and social context, might I suggest that the category of "folkwhatever" (folk music, folk lore, folktale) is in fact a fairly recent social construct. After all, for something to be folkwhatever, something else in society is not. These categories emerged when Georgian and Victorian rationalists were trying to argue that their taste, in music, art, not to mention scientific and medical knowledge, were vastly superior to that in the past, to that of the uneducated peasant classes, and to that of even more uneducated Africans and Indians.
These days folkwhatever even gets used positively, to describe certain types of knowledge and art indigenous and specific to an individual culture (a lot of this has to do with the rise of nationalism.... anyway). But that's the history of it, briefly. Anyway, once we have this category of "folkwhatever," things that fall into that category are whatever most people in a given society agree fall into it. Which for Americans include songs like "Oh, Susanna," even if their origins were less than rosy.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
You know, this started with wondering what "Maybe it's my Kentucky that makes me like it." meant. That's all. The answer made as much sense to me as the original sentence.
period.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Wyogal, I have to say I think you're being a bit harsh on Jerone. Where I come from an honest effort excuses a lot, and he's definitely been working harder than anyone I've seen in a long time to learn something about this music. He hasn't got it all yet, but he's got enough curiosity to kill all nine lives of a cat, and I don't usually see him make the same mistake twice.
That all suggests to me that I should give him some slack, and some help where I can. Maybe you could do the same.
There are some people who come through here who don't get much consideration because they do nothing to merit it. This kid ain't one.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
C'mon! You can't be offended by that. That gives you *huge* status. Why, that puts you up there - nearly - with the likes of ... ooh, I dunno ... llig, say.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Even folk songs had an original author at one point. When everyone forgets who wrote them, and learns them from their mothers or playmates, I don't think it is unreasonable to call songs folk songs. Even if a few scholarly types still remember who that author was...
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
And now, for the edification and enjoyment of the people participating in this discussion and the other members of this web site, here are links to two "special" songs.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Woah! I just saw this... "...but he's got enough curiosity to kill all nine lives of a cat..." Ok, THAT is one of the funniest things i've ever read on this board!
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Asperger syndrome or Asperger's syndrome or Asperger disorder is an autism spectrum disorder that is characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction, along with restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests. It differs from other autism spectrum disorders by its relative preservation of linguistic and cognitive development. Although not required for diagnosis, physical clumsiness and atypical use of language are frequently reported. (from Wikipedia)
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
I have an aunt whose first name is Jerelyn. She prefers to be called "Jerrie" and we like to tease her by singing "Go tell Aunt Jerrie" to InfernalTootler's favorite folk song. She will let me get away with it because I am her only nephew. This aunt is a devout Southern Baptist who thinks I should play only religious music and nothing else.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"Once a year, for a bit of fun, the club had a "Bad Song Contest". Musicians were also allowed to enter as well, with "bad tunes".
One year, the competition was won by a Northumbrian piper. He played "Somwhere Over the Rainbow" - and he won the contest!"
(Mix O'Lydian)
I can just see it.
The Northumbrian Pipes playing in old pitch, a guitar playing in new pitch, an out-of-tune piano and a singer of the big-hearted drunk type who forgets words, can't keep time and laughs a lot. Throw in a piano accordion, a Susato, a barmaid howling for glasses and an unhappy dog. And I haven't even mentioned the fiddles...
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
@nicholas - my Northumbrian piper friend just played it solo - key of D - old pitch.
The first part of the tune sounded pleasant enough - it's the second part which for some reason sounds excruciatingly painful when played on that particular instrument.
As I recall, those not currently taking part had to cheer or boo each perfomer as the case may be - and the performer who got the most boos won the contest!
It was all a great laugh - one of the most popular club nights of the year.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"The Northumbrian Pipes playing in old pitch, a guitar playing in new pitch, an out-of-tune piano and a singer of the big-hearted drunk type who forgets words, can't keep time and laughs a lot. Throw in a piano accordion, a Susato, a barmaid howling for glasses and an unhappy dog. And I haven't even mentioned the fiddles..."
Ahhh, Nicholas, you paint such a Lovely Picture in words (he said sarcastically). But you forgot the bodhran.
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"But you forgot the bodhran..." (fauxcelt)
The bodhran simply didn't come into the parameters (perimeters?) of my instinctive instrument selection faculty when applied to Over The Rainbow. But yes, I concede that among Earth's billions there may indeed be individuals who would play a bodhran along with this.The world can be a vaguely horrific place...
The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Our celidh band played for a barn dance last night ...
All in all, it was quite a good gig - except that at one point of the evening we had to play for a dance called "Red River Valley".
Anyone familiar with this tune? There aren't many notes in it, and the "A" part is almost identical to the "B" part.
We couldn't think of any other tune(s) to set with it, and we weren't even sure whether it would be appropriate to do so, in any case.
In the end, we just switched between playing it in DMaj and AMaj. We said afterwards that it might have been fun (if we were clever enough) to have started it in CMaj, then raised it by a semitone for each subsequent reiteration ...
I put it to you all that "Red River Valley" is the most boring and daggiest tune ever devised - or do you know different?
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Oh I don't know Mix ..... Music for a Found Harmonium always makes me yawn!
Cheers,
Dick
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Ptarmigan
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Ptarmi - I don't like that one either - but at least it's got plenty of notes in it ....
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Aye ... too many notes, but not enough Music!
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Ptarmigan
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Hey Mix, didn't they nick the melody for the song Maggie, from the Red River Valley?
Yeee Haaaw .. Begorra & Bejaysus!
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Ptarmigan
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Red River Valley ... as in the song? There's a B part?
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by ethical blend
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
That's right EB - as in the song.
The first part equates to the verse of the song - the second part equates to the chorus of the song. They're identical, except that at one point of the second part you play a crotchet instead of two quavers! Such variety!
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Ah. I see. Thrilling.
Doing a gig with Peter Kennedy once - he was calling - and he insisted on us playing "My Bonnie Lies Over The Ocean" over and over and over ... We must have played it at least 20 times I should think. That can start to pall after a while, I can tell you. Having said which, it's amazing the variations you can find to put on such tunes when the need arises. I just reverted to the main melody whenever he turned round and glared at me.
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by ethical blend
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Was it Johny Horton who made it a hit in the '60's? Are we singing off the same page here?
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by mcknowall
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Red River Valley is indeed boring, and I am only aware of an A part.
A ceilidh band I know and occasionally play with, however, combine it in a dance set with Oh Susannah and She'll Be Coming Round The Mountain When She Comes.
These tunes also are unbelievably boring, but the changeovers keep one alive and enable one to hang onto the fact that all tunes terminate, even if the ones that succeed them are worse.
The trouble is - as one experienced ceilidh muso put it to me - the common-or-garden and/or downright boring tunes are the ones the punters actually feel happy with, and more esoteric stuff just throws them out and has them standing around in clumps looking piteous.
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by nicholas
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
True enough, Nicholas.
Yes, in the past we've also had to play "Coming Round the Mountain", Oh Susannah and other tunes of that ilk
One thing's for sure, if you play in a ceilidh band (at least in England) you can't be a tune snob, and you have to be prepared to play anything that's called for ..
But the problem with a dance which is an American-style "singing call" is that you can't really switch to a different tune ....
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
But you can 'embellish' it surely?
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by ethical blend
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Longford Collector, Sailor's Bonnet and Coleman Cross always get my goat for having so many repeats of little snatches of tune. I'm always in awe of anyone who can do brilliant versions of these. I have much to learn.
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Steve Shaw
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
I agree Mix , that "The Red River Valley" is about as Daggy and boring as a tune can get. But I will say, with some bias, but without apology ; I think "Amazing Grace" is more so. You see, I was a Highland piper for several years....
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by pipewatcher
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
There are a whole bunch of Americana tunes like Soldier's Joy, Over the Waterfall, Brighton Camp, Liberty etc that are as simple as the simplest polka, but played like reels, flat with no bounce, that make me want to slit my wrists. They're okay tunes if played in a bluegrass style with lots of free variation, but when they come up in an Irish session (and they do... oh, they do...) I could just weep.
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by fidkid
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Concurred, pipewatcher! That's another tune that I don't like, and played on the pipes, it's even worse! (and I like pipes). But the punters all love it, don't they?
Fortunately it would never be needed for a dance at a ceildh. So I've revised my original question:-
Red River Valley: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised needed for a dance at a ceilidh?
Talking of tunes unsuitable for pipes, many years ago I was a member of club that used to meet every week to sing traditional songs and play traditional music.
Once a year, for a bit of fun, the club had a "Bad Song Contest". Musicians were also allowed to enter as well, with "bad tunes".
One year, the competition was won by a Northumbrian piper. He played "Somwhere Over the Rainbow" - and he won the contest!
If you're still playing pipes, try it and you'll see why!
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Fidkid - at least all the tunes that you cited have a lot more to them than RRV.
And "Brighton Camp"(AKA Bride in Camp/ The Girl I Left Behind Me) is an English tune, I believe ...
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
@ethical blend - sure, you could embellish it .
... you could also try making a silk purse out of a sow's ear ...
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Steve Shaw: "Longford Collector, Sailor's Bonnet and Coleman Cross"
Don't know any of those, Steve. Maybe I'll check 'em out ...
Or - in view of what you say - maybe I won't ....
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Oh, I'ved played "Over the Rainbow" on the uilleann pipes lots of times ! Though never "in public" In G it works pretty well . Years ago, however, playing with a folkie , Waterboys-esque sort of band we played "Freebird" a lot. Whether in bars or at music festivals, someone would always yell for it at the end of the night, more as a joke or just a standard practise for the end of any concert. So we played it..... The guitar solo is awesome on the uilleann pipes, dude!!!
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by pipewatcher
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Hi Mix, yeah I'm not surprised Brighton Camp is of English origin. No slam intended, it's just that many if not most "Americana" tunes are well travelled and of Scots/Irish/English origin.
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by fidkid
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
That main "Freebird" riff is fun to work in when someone's singing Fields of Athenry and the lyrics go "Where once we watched the watch the small free birds fly [mimic riff on fiddle, pipes etc]"
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by fidkid
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
What were the lyrics to the chorus on "Comin' 'Round The Mountain"?
I can never get them right...
I know of one rather moody uilleann piper who allegedly played "How Much Is That Doggy In The Window" at a competition some years ago.
I do not think it was a serious effort, more of a message to the judges presiding that day.
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Piece
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Oh ye cannae shove yer grannie aff a bus,
Oh ye cannae shove yer grannie aff a bus,
Ye cannae shove yer grannie
For she's yer mammie's mammie,
Ye canna shove yer grannie aff a bus.
O ye canna shove yer Granny aff a bus,
O ye canna shove yer Granny aff a bus,
O ye canna shove yer Granny
'Cos she's yer Mammy's Mammy
O ye canna shove yer Granny aff a bus.
Ye can shove yer ither Granny aff a bus.
Ye can shove yer ither Granny aff a bus.
Ye can shove yer ither Granny
'Cos she's yer Faither's Mammy
Ye can shove yer ither Granny aff a bus.
Ye can shove yer Uncle Wullie aff a bus.
Ye can shove yer Uncle Wullie affa bus.
Uncle Wullie's like yer Faither
A harum-scarum blether,
Ye can shove yer Uncle Wullie aff a bus.
Ye can shove yer Auntie Maggie aff a bus.
Ye can shove Auntie Maggie aff a bus.
Auntie Meg's yer Faither's sister,
She's naethin' but a twister,
Ye can shove yer Auntie Maggie aff a bus.
But ye canna shove yer Granny aff a bus.
O ye canna shove yer Granny aff a bus.
O ye canna shove yer Granny,
'Cos she's yer Mammy's Mammy,
O ye canna shove yer Granny aff a bus.
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Johnny Jay
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
@Piece - Yer tiz:
"Singin', hi-hi yippee, yippee hi,
Singin', hi-hi yippee, yippee hi,
Singin' Hi-hi yippee, hi-hi yippee;
Hi-hi yippee, yippee yippee hi."
Q1. But why would you want to know? Even the lyrics are boring!
Q2. Should it not be: "How Much is that "Daggie" in the Window"?
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Well, I could have sworn that Soldier's Joy was also English, but it appears to have been already absolutely everywhere in Europe at least by the middle of the eighteenth century:
http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/SO_SOR.htm
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by ethical blend
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
@pipewatcher.
Which is worse? "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" played on Northumbian smallpipes? Or Somewhere Over the Rainbow" played on Uilleann pipes?
Only one way to find out - fight!
If you'd been there on the night of the contest, you might well have beaten that Northumbrian piper into second place ...
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
@ John J. The tune of :"Ye Cannae Shove yer Grannie off a bus" certainly has a hig "dag" factor - saved (almost!) by the lyrics!
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"Oh she's got a lovely country cottage...
Oh she's got a lovely country cottage,
Where the flowers in the garden,
Bloom like the Vale of Arden
Oh she's got a lovely country cottage"
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Johnny Jay
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
You might be surprised, Mix, on a full set it can be quite faithfully rendered and tastefully enhanced by judicious use of the regulators. When I get my "whale set" (B) up and running I"ll put it on the Youtube ;) . Nobody might like it but begad I'll prove yes all i can play it! Hehheh...heh
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by pipewatcher
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
@ John J - those lyrics sound risque!
@ pipewatcher - I look forward to that YouTube ... and don't forget to tell us all when you've uploaded it !
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
If you listen to the lyrics of this song(To the melody of red River Valley), it doesn't sound quite so daggy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNcpoyxjY18&feature=related
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Johnny Jay
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
@JohnJ - agreed - that's not so bad - you can improve the tune a lot by putting a ragtime, frailing or bluegrass spin to it.
Sure, it's just about passable as a song. The real problem arises from using it as a dance tune - especially as it's only effectively 16 bars.
If you analyse it, you'll find that most tunes that folks consider to be "daggy" are the melodies of songs, rather than being tunes in their own right ,,,,
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"Shaving Cream" by Benny Bell is so similar to "My Bonnie Lies Over The Ocean" that I occasionally get the two tunes confused and mixed up together. You could also call it "My Boonie Lice Soda Devotion".
In church, we like to play "Amazing Grace" to the tune of "Peaceful, Easy Feeling" by some band from California whom we jokingly refer to as the "Beagles" (better known as the Eagles).
"I was a Highland piper for several years" Have you completely recovered yet or are you still in therapy?(Highland Pipers Anonymous)
There used to be a mandolin player here who liked to play "Soldier's Joy" in D Major the first time through; in d minor the second time; and then switch back to D Major for the third time and last time through the tune. He jokingly said the d minor version of "Soldier's Joy" was how they played it in Russia.
As for the song about the Red River Valley, I have always assumed that whoever wrote the song meant the Red River in this part of the United States instead of the Red River which starts in Minnesota and flows northward into Canada between Minnesota and North Dakota. The Red River in this part of the country starts in the infamous Texas Panhandle and runs on the boundary (or maybe the boundary runs on it) between Oklahoma and Texas before it cuts across the southwest corner of Arkansas and then into Louisiana. I have crossed this particular river a few times either in Arkansas on I-30 (Interstate Thirty) or going north from Texas to Oklahoma (or going south from Oklahoma to Texas) on I-35.
I went to Google Maps and clicked on Streetview one day. Starting with the I-35 crossing of the Red River, I went upstream (westwards) and clicked on the Streetview pictures of each and every bridge which crossed the Red River most of the way upstream to where this river starts in the Panhandle.
After viewing the river crossings on Google Streetview and crossing the river a few times in person, I cannot understand why someone would write such a sappy, sentimental song about the Red River Valley. Yes, I was unimpressed by what I saw on Google Streetview.
Laurence
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by fauxcelt
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Clearly, the object of this song didn't like the Red River Valley either, faux:
"Oh they say, from this valley, you are GOING! " ....
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Daggiest, perhaps, but it has done the rounds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_GlK2fR8ew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvrD7XDwQ3Q&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFyBCBBCjOg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCDvUYk7pXY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4Hnky4B46A&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOFVrDAnrGc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM54-ZRd-9k&feature=related
I used to play with a guy who did a Fats Waller style version - at least I thought he did until one day he took his hands off the keyboard and it was still playing.....
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Weejie
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
I looked into the Red River Valley song and was surprised to discover documentation of non-Texas origin. As far as I could discover, it is indeed about the Red River valley of the north, which flows toward Manitoba, Canada. I grew up in Texas and around the Dakotas and never realized there was a continental divide near Summit, South Dakota, north of which flows the Red River. I believe the tune was from the Metis, and is often played around there.
As for being daggy, any tune can be daggy, but I think any tune can also be played in a way so as to be engaging...just maybe not in Irish disguise.
I hasten to bid you adieu...sounds more Metis than Spanish to me. Can't wait to check out some of the versions above, thanks Weejie.
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by full measure
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Quite frankly, I love Red River Valley... as a song to be sung. My relatives come from the RRV, in the north.
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Weejie: "Daggiest, perhaps, but it has done the rounds,"
Well, so has Lilo Lill ...
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Well, it looks like the North has it, anyway:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_River_Valley_(song)
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
and just to make it clear, I don't do this at our session, it is a part of my Stabbin' Killin' Dyin' songs repertoire that is a collection of folks songs sung in America over the years...
We don't do songs (at least in their "song" version) at our session.
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
In case anyone wants to know (
) here are the instructions for the square dance: "Red River Valley".
http://home.fuse.net/russchilders/dancered.html
Note that the lyrics for the "singing call" are totally different to the song lyrics in the examples cited above.
Thankfully, our band doesn't play for square dances "per se". But we sometimes work with a caller who likes to slip in the odd square dance into the evening's programme (which is what happened yesterday evening).
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Ah.. the grannie on the bus! I remember Hamish Imlach doing that one. It's too funny to be daggy.
How about Molly Malone?
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by kuec
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/8939
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by SmashTheWindows
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"Well, so has Lilo Lill "
When Lilo has been "covered" by such diverse folk as Woody Guthrie, Leonard Cohen, Judy Collins and Stevie Nicks, to name but a few, let me know! I'm not sure if that many people would know who the lady was, come to think of it.
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by Weejie
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Well, Red River Valley is not exactly exciting, but the dance is a good one for low level dancers and I can understand it being asked for. I used to call it back in the day...
If you want to get confused with the singing calls try the one for Red Wing. It is a nice enough tune but the call requires alternation of the number of times through the various parts and callers have a habit of asking for it in odd keys: "Red Wing in Bb..." or, one night "Red Wing in Db." The band had a G/D box, and a Hammered Dulcimer in it. The band leader said "NO!" and we played it in D. It is bad enough to keep track of the special number of times through each section let alone muck around with a weird key....
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by cboody
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
@cboody - We've also had to play Redwing a couple of times over the years. That tune isn't too bad - certainly it's a whole lot better than RRV.
It's been a while since we played it, but my recollection is that the dance starts with the chorus figure - which means that you have to begin it by playing the "B" part of the tune ...
As we're not a square dance band, we only play tunes for singing calls on sufferance. Assuming the tune is in major key, the caller gets the choice of GMaj, DMaj or Amaj - or else we won't play it!
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Blimey, Mix, that's a bit restrictive! C, F and E are OK, surely? (Well, I supposed it depends on what sort of box you have in the band.) And other keys aren't usually all that bad. We got asked for something common (can't remember what) in Eb once. No problem. Guitar moves his capo, whistle swaps to an Eb whistle and for fiddle it's not too big a deal. Voilá!
Mind you, I'd have drawn the line at Db. If the caller/singer can't manage just a semitone higher, it's a poor job, I reckon.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by ethical blend
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Redwing ... would that be the one that starts D2 | G2GG G2B2 | d6 ?
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by ethical blend
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Jon J.:
Thank you for the "Grannie" lyrics, it brought a big
silly grin to my face as my coffee perks in the kitchen
this morning.
I shall be leading a sing-along with that ditty soonest.
Many, many thanks again, the song shall live on
ethical blend:
Possibly this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Cm6hTglo0Y
I first heard Redwing played by a Trinidad steel drum band.
Gives you chills.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Piece
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
daggiest English tunes - jimmy allen, salmon tails, winster reel, harvest home
The composer or "somewhere over the rainbow" had composers-block when he got to the B part.
......... Until a police car went by. (this only works for a UK police car) neee nooor neee noooor neee nooor neee nooor
We have to do Red River Valley with a sung call, but we entertain the musicians and p*ss the caller off by starting in E, and move up a key each time.
The caller is usually strangling himeself by the time we get to C.
Please try this if you have a melodion (or guitarist who insists on using a capo) in the band.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by geoffwright
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Nowt wrong with Harvest Home. Cracking tune.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by ethical blend
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Salmon Tails isn't a daggy tune but Harvest Home is.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
How can you SAY that, TSS? And it's so cool on pipes, too.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by ethical blend
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Well, to be honest, I don't have a problem with Harvest Home. I think tunes like that can so easily be played in an interesting way, as well as the often heard, slow & boring way.
There's nothing more boring, to my ears, than Polkas played in a slow, dull & boring way, almost like Marches.
Speaking of Polkas, there's nowt wrong with Salmon Tails up the Water, although of course I do prefer the 4 part Irish version: The Siege of Ennis Polka.
Cheers,
Dick
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Ptarmigan
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
I think I've been turned off to Harvest Home by the fact that it's pants most of the time I hear it and definitely pants when I play it.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
You guys have all heard Johnny Doherty's version of Harvest Home, right?
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by ethical blend
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Yes, Mix, you are correct. In the lyrics of Red River Valley, they do say they are leaving the Valley and I don't blame them. It isn't the most scenic part of Texas or Oklahoma and it is right in the middle of the infamous "Tornado Alley" part of the United States.
I have never traveled as far north as the Red River in North Dakota and Minnesota. Come to think of it, I have never visited either of those states--yet.
When I play with the old time folk music group once a month, we always play "Redwing" in G Major and no other key.
Since most of the other musicians here don't seem to think I am a good enough musician to play for dancers or dancing, I don't play with any local ceili (or ceilidh) bands or for the local Contra(ry) dance group called the Arkansas Country Dance Society.
Laurence
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by fauxcelt
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
The Red River Valley of the north has great farmland... and the BEST potatoes!
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
I like the Red River Valley. We sung it in... 8th grade choir think. I like it more as a slow song than a fast one. The notes may be simple but the lyrics are actually pretty nice(to me). Maybe it's my Kentucky that makes me like it.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
@ mcknowall: I think you're thinking of the 8th of January and the popular song "The Battle of New Orleans"
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Yank
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
you have your very own Kentucky?
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
fiddlelearner: "Maybe it's my Kentucky that makes me like it."
wyogal: "you have your very own Kentucky?"
Kentucky Fried Chicken, maybe? ....
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
I'm not sure what Kentucky has to do with either location of the Red River Valley.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Kentucky is country and and very very Native American. The trail of tears runs through it. Besides, it does have it's own very very famous American Folk song, "My Old Kentucky Home". Oh Susanna, She'll Be Comin' Round The Mountain, all of these songs are apart of our tradition. That's what Kentucky has to do with the Red River Valley.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
ethical blend: "Blimey, Mix, that's a bit restrictive! C, F and E are OK, surely?"
Nah - As we're always being asked to play daggy tunes, we just stick to the DAG-gy keys (D A & G) ...
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Sorry, Fiddlelearner, but it still doesn't make sense.
"Maybe it's my Kentucky that makes me like it."
"apart" has a different meaning than "a part"
and you do know the origins of "Oh, Susanna" right? Not a shining moment in our history. As well as My Old Kentucky Home.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"I'm not sure what Kentucky has to do with either location of the Red River Valley" wyogal
Red River, is that the open sewer that runs though Austin Tx?
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
some interesting shots of a flooded Red River Valley...
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/04/12/photos-red-river-flood-aerial/
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"My Kentucky" means my culture and heritage.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
and it's connection to Red River Valley is...? other than being an American folksong? So, you are from Kentucky?
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
oops, *its*
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
... and not really "folksongs" in that they were composed by Stephen Foster, one for a contest.
No one these days would dare recite the original lyrics as they are pretty darn offensive.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Yes i am from Kentucky. I've only been in Texas for 2 years. And the "American Folk Song" is the connection. Because Kentucky is very American... in the most shameful of senses as you have pointed out.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
They aren't folk songs? That's what they taught us in school...
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
ethical blend "Redwing ... would that be the one that starts D2 | G2GG G2B2 | d6 ?"
Yep - that's the one!
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
You know the original lyrics, then?
Glad you could make that connection, for yourself.
and I still think your original sentence makes no sense... unless you left out a couple of words after "Maybe it's my Kentucky (fill in the blank) that makes me like it."
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Original lyrics? sorry, can't say i do.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
wyogal "some interesting shots of a flooded Red River Valley..."
So you see, they all played that tune too darn much. It reduced all the folks to tears, and those tears flooded that valley ...
Just retribution ...
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Folksong would imply that it was passed down through an oral/aural tradition, not a composed piece of music.
Did they tell you in school how Oh, Susanna came about? Or did they just sing the revised ditty and leave it at that?
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
can't Jeremy add a "like" button? Good one, Mix!
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
i don't know what song you're talking about either. Oh Susanna, i remember had a verse or two... but that was back in my elementary school says. She'll be comin' round the mountain, the same. And the Red River Valley, i think i could find them.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Maybe you ought to do a quick google search then Jerone. Seriously. Then when you hold up these tunes as being a part of your heritage, you might find out that it's not the heritage you were thinking of.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Oh Susanna, and My Old Kentucky Home
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"Maybe you ought to do a quick google search then Jerone. Seriously. Then when you hold up these tunes as being a part of your heritage, you might find out that it's not the heritage you were thinking of." wyogal
Can't say I like where your headed with that.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
days*
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
well, someone needs to educate him. I didn't go there first.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"My Old Kentucky Home" - here are first two lines of the lyrics:
The sun shines bright, in the old Kentucky home,
'Tis Summer, the darkies are gay ...
Well. you certainly can't say "darkies" any more...
... and I've also heard a rumour that the meaning of the word "gay" has changed since that song was written ....
Yup - I reckon that one is pretty daggy ....
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"well, someone needs to educate him. I didn't go there first" wyogal
Well thats not how I'm reading it, and it's not your job. Jerone is getting all the education he needs so just desist with that sh*t on here, in mustard world. No matter who started it. You too Mix.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"Can't say I like where your headed with that."
I assumed it was a reference to the fact that these are not so much "traditional folk songs" as mid-19th century pop songs.... where were you seeing that going?
I love some Steven Foster (Some Folks is a great little one...) but he's hardly a source of traditional folk songs.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
I'm not the one that brought up those tunes, waving them around like they are the epitome of American Folk Music.
I don't promote those tunes, and have quit performing O Susanna because it is not my idea of a tune/history that I would espouse.
Some people on this board spout off with stuff they know nothing about.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Yes, Jon, they were the "greatest hits" on the pop charts of their day, in the minstrel shows. Composed for a reason, to make money.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"No man, except for a blockhead, ever wrote except for money"
-Samuel Johnson
It might be worth pointing out here Mick Moloney's observation that the American songs which established the "drink and fight" stereotype of the Irish in America were largely written by the same people who were writing the music for the minstrel shows. "Far From the Shamrock Shore" is a great record, and it's worth buying a physical copy, because the liner notes are very extensive and very good.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Interesting lyrics. Wow that was a long time ago. I'm not offended, that's just how people felt back in that day. "White" people have done too much for me for me to hold a 400 year grudge. Thanks for letting know about the songs though, but mind you, i didn't bring up the songs either. Maybe you should read higher up. On a slightly different note, they taught those songs to us in school, and taught that they were American Folks Songs. That's not my fault. Sorry i offend you so much Wyogal.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"I assumed it was a reference to the fact that these are not so much "traditional folk songs" as mid-19th century pop songs" Jon Kiparsky
Yeh you got me there...........
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Most of the tunes listed here as boring are tunes which would have been played for what we used to term as a 'Square Dance' (jeans and check shirt affairs) and a Square Dance was never popular in Ireland. Consequently all our Ceili Dances were danced to traditional reels, jigs, hornpipes and such like. A boring tune that comes to mind for me is The Soldiers Joy with Egans' Polka a close second..
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Free Reed
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Just because someone told you they are folksongs, doesn't make it so.
It's not that you "offend" me, you just irk the heck out of me, and I'm not going to coddle you.
You say you study music?
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
you don't have to "coddle", but you could at least treat me like a person. Even after you accused me of being a fake, and all your slagging and trolling, i still treat you with respect, and i will continue. But i would appreciate it if you did the same.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
And yes i study music.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
What are your criteria for a 'folksong', wyogal? All tunes/songs were written by someone, and more often than not to help put a bit of bread in their mouth.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by fidkid
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
gave it earlier... scroll up.
And because I'm a slagging troll I don't think I'll continue here. LOL ROTFLMAO OMG haha
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
We were taught those songs as well in elementary school in the People's Republic of Boulder, and they were usually located in volumes with titles along the lines of "American Folksongs."
But I suppose if we are going to venture into the realm of pretentious arguing about historical and social context, might I suggest that the category of "folkwhatever" (folk music, folk lore, folktale) is in fact a fairly recent social construct. After all, for something to be folkwhatever, something else in society is not. These categories emerged when Georgian and Victorian rationalists were trying to argue that their taste, in music, art, not to mention scientific and medical knowledge, were vastly superior to that in the past, to that of the uneducated peasant classes, and to that of even more uneducated Africans and Indians.
These days folkwhatever even gets used positively, to describe certain types of knowledge and art indigenous and specific to an individual culture (a lot of this has to do with the rise of nationalism.... anyway). But that's the history of it, briefly. Anyway, once we have this category of "folkwhatever," things that fall into that category are whatever most people in a given society agree fall into it. Which for Americans include songs like "Oh, Susanna," even if their origins were less than rosy.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
You know, this started with wondering what "Maybe it's my Kentucky that makes me like it." meant. That's all. The answer made as much sense to me as the original sentence.
period.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
It's not about that. You just always seem to have sommething negative to say, about everything i say.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Take this off the board if you want to fight with me.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
haha!
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"haha!" wyogal
fiddlelearner isn't without his support. A point worth bearing in mind when you want to "take things off the board".
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
is that a threat?
We are having a rational discussion elsewhere, thank-you.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"Take this off the board if you want to fight with me." wyogal
Now, that was a threat.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
no, it was an invite to PM our differences. sheesh
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"no, it was an invite to PM our differences. sheesh" wyogal
I read it as I see it I'm afraid.
Ok, sorry, I'm just not that chat room savvy
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Thank God this is the internet and not a real pub.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
But if it was a real pub, we'd share a drink and get over it much quicker. Too serious when it's just typed words.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Wyogal, I have to say I think you're being a bit harsh on Jerone. Where I come from an honest effort excuses a lot, and he's definitely been working harder than anyone I've seen in a long time to learn something about this music. He hasn't got it all yet, but he's got enough curiosity to kill all nine lives of a cat, and I don't usually see him make the same mistake twice.
That all suggests to me that I should give him some slack, and some help where I can. Maybe you could do the same.
There are some people who come through here who don't get much consideration because they do nothing to merit it. This kid ain't one.
Just a thought.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Yes, he works hard.
I'm not a slagging troll.
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
C'mon! You can't be offended by that. That gives you *huge* status. Why, that puts you up there - nearly - with the likes of ... ooh, I dunno ... llig, say.
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by ethical blend
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Ha! That's what I was thinking just now...
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Even folk songs had an original author at one point. When everyone forgets who wrote them, and learns them from their mothers or playmates, I don't think it is unreasonable to call songs folk songs. Even if a few scholarly types still remember who that author was...
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by AlBrown
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
And now, for the edification and enjoyment of the people participating in this discussion and the other members of this web site, here are links to two "special" songs.
The first is for the song parody "Song Of The Folk Nazi" by Bob Kanefsky:
http://www.songworm.com/lyrics/songworm-parody/SongoftheFolkNazi.html
The second is for the song "The Ghost Of Stephen Foster" by the Squirrel Nut Zippers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJzWGkgFcTU
Laurence
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by fauxcelt
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Hey, ok ok. I'll admit it, i was wrong, and wyogal isn't a slagging troll. Easy to annoy, but not a bad person. Pretty cool actually.
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Thanks.
I did an online adult aspergers test once.... it explained a lot.
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Woah! I just saw this... "...but he's got enough curiosity to kill all nine lives of a cat..." Ok, THAT is one of the funniest things i've ever read on this board!
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
what's an "aspergers"?
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Asperger syndrome or Asperger's syndrome or Asperger disorder is an autism spectrum disorder that is characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction, along with restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests. It differs from other autism spectrum disorders by its relative preservation of linguistic and cognitive development. Although not required for diagnosis, physical clumsiness and atypical use of language are frequently reported. (from Wikipedia)
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by AlBrown
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Just thought that I'd check back in to my little thread to see how it was going ...
Red River Valley?
Rivers of blood, more like ...
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
The tune that lays my veins to ice is 'Go tell Aunt Rhody'. i'd kill that bloomin' goose meself if it shut her up.
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by InfernalTootler
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
... the gander is weeping, the gander is weeping ....
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
I have an aunt whose first name is Jerelyn. She prefers to be called "Jerrie" and we like to tease her by singing "Go tell Aunt Jerrie" to InfernalTootler's favorite folk song. She will let me get away with it because I am her only nephew. This aunt is a devout Southern Baptist who thinks I should play only religious music and nothing else.
Laurence
# Posted on August 24th 2011 by fauxcelt
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"Once a year, for a bit of fun, the club had a "Bad Song Contest". Musicians were also allowed to enter as well, with "bad tunes".
One year, the competition was won by a Northumbrian piper. He played "Somwhere Over the Rainbow" - and he won the contest!"
(Mix O'Lydian)
I can just see it.
The Northumbrian Pipes playing in old pitch, a guitar playing in new pitch, an out-of-tune piano and a singer of the big-hearted drunk type who forgets words, can't keep time and laughs a lot. Throw in a piano accordion, a Susato, a barmaid howling for glasses and an unhappy dog. And I haven't even mentioned the fiddles...
# Posted on August 24th 2011 by nicholas
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
@nicholas - my Northumbrian piper friend just played it solo - key of D - old pitch.
The first part of the tune sounded pleasant enough - it's the second part which for some reason sounds excruciatingly painful when played on that particular instrument.
As I recall, those not currently taking part had to cheer or boo each perfomer as the case may be - and the performer who got the most boos won the contest!
It was all a great laugh - one of the most popular club nights of the year.
# Posted on August 24th 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
The Concertina Reel. A desperate, truly desperate 'tune'.
A very handy tune for taking a toilet/bar/whatever break. Tough if you've just come back from the toilet/bar/whatever.
David
# Posted on August 24th 2011 by DavidT
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"The Northumbrian Pipes playing in old pitch, a guitar playing in new pitch, an out-of-tune piano and a singer of the big-hearted drunk type who forgets words, can't keep time and laughs a lot. Throw in a piano accordion, a Susato, a barmaid howling for glasses and an unhappy dog. And I haven't even mentioned the fiddles..."
Ahhh, Nicholas, you paint such a Lovely Picture in words (he said sarcastically). But you forgot the bodhran.
Laurence
# Posted on August 25th 2011 by fauxcelt
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
sounds like a good night
# Posted on August 25th 2011 by Eòsaph
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
"But you forgot the bodhran..." (fauxcelt)
The bodhran simply didn't come into the parameters (perimeters?) of my instinctive instrument selection faculty when applied to Over The Rainbow. But yes, I concede that among Earth's billions there may indeed be individuals who would play a bodhran along with this.The world can be a vaguely horrific place...
# Posted on August 26th 2011 by nicholas
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
Yes, Nicholas, unfortunately you are correct about this world being a "horrific place" sometimes.
Laurence
# Posted on August 26th 2011 by fauxcelt
Re: The most boring and daggiest tune ever devised?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hN_x2iJmLU
# Posted on August 27th 2011 by SmashTheWindows