If it is the stringed instrument, is it made out of cardboard? There's gotta be a hitch, a glitch, or a typo. Even a $400 viola would be considered cheap student instrument.
No, don't even think about it. Violas are deeply addictive and will absorb all your time and money. You'll find yourself hanging around outside sessions asking if anyone can spare a jig or a couple of reels. Next a dealer will offer you octave strings and you'll think it won't do any harm to try just once, you can stop any time you like . . . .
And then one day, you're a cellist and it's too late.
Hang on in there, Bernie 29. You can say no. Resist the temptation. Keep that in mind and you won't be tempted . . .
Seriously, if you just play tunes at violin pitch, you need to get really good at playing in 3rd and 5th position. I can't see the point. I'd rather use the fiddle in sessions.
If you drop the tune down an octave, it will (almost certainly!) not require positions and will use as much of the C string and the fiddle does of a G string. Depends whether you and your session buddies like the sound or not.
Slow airs in the low octave are great. Low harmonies, if appropriate, are great.
I don't usually use the viola for sessions, and I don't think I would ever use the octave viola in a session.
I got to play an octave violin someone brought to the session once. Nice to mix things up. Pairing fiddle/octave fiddle created some interesting sounds. Also, becuase it wasn't as loud, it also paired up nicely with flute. Anything more than 5 people though and a session would drown it out. I imagine the same would go for any viola except for one that was both well made and well played.
I have played around with learning/rearranging tunes on my viola. So far not a fan. It is rare to find tunes that avoid the violin's E string, and taking those parts down an octave tends to take the life out of a tune. I know how to shift, but why do that when it doesn't feel natural, and I can just play my fiddle instead? There are a few tunes where drones on the C string can add a whole new color for a tune. Find enough of those and it may find some session life.
"And then one day, you're a cellist and it's too late.
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by c.g."
This is patently ridiculous.
Modern science has never been able to prove reliably that violas are a gateway instrument to more serious musical addictions. It is almost like saying that whistles lead to flutes, or that shakey eggs lead to bodhrans.
There are simply too many other factors contributing to the overall profile of viola addiction, such as perfect pitch, a propensity for harmonizing, eclectic musical tastes, a certain maverick outlook, and, of course, better hygiene.
I think it is the other way around. Violists are more likely to get a cheap fiddle and play trad. I mean, where else are you going to find classicly trained musicians to butcher a living tradition of music and strip it of ornamentation and life?
A friend of mine gave me a Viola - This Guy.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-1V2_N-B70&feature=channel_video_title
I love playing it in the house although I find it hard work Physicality compared to the fiddle..
But I havent played it out yet.. has to be set up better.
But Charlie Lennon also play's Viola and has composed some very lovely tunes for it.
The Wishbone being one of them.
sure get a 5 string Viola with an extra E.. or a 5 string fiddle with an extra C. Dont bother with a 4 string, unless your up for tunes in East Clare some time?
Thanks, Ptarmy. In all seriousness, the 5-string efforts I've tried (made by somebody Scottish whose name I can't remember, somebody English who's well-known but I'd better not name plus one other) haven't appealed. I haven't liked them at all. Those vids looked all right though. Not my style, but good stuff all the same.
Ooh, I missed you coming back on this, NCFA. Yeah, it had a funny sort of hollow echo to it. Jangly, sort of. Sometimes you get that with new violins just from the instrument, but I don't think that was it. There was too much of it. I reckon it was just a funny echoey room.
If you listen to the other Matheu Watson vids shot in the same room, guitar tenor banjo etc you can hear that it's unlikely to be the room.
I agree with ethical blend when he says:
" it had a funny sort of hollow echo to it. Jangly, sort of. Sometimes you get that with new violins"
That was my first reaction also, although I'd have described the sound as a little raspy, and it's not the player, Matheu is a quality young fiddle player and multi-instrumentalist. I'm no fiddler but I've sat next to enough well played fiddles often enough to recognise the voice. This instrument has a different voice regardless of the room quality of build age etc.
The girlfriend plays both fiddle and viola. She points out that the 5 string hybrids (and other hybrids) don't appeal to her as they exhibit none of the desirable qualities of either instrument, as she would say: "it's not a fiddle and it's not a viola, so what is it and why haven't they ever been part of the mainstream"?
She's a good enough player and tried enough of these hybrids to have an opinion. Although that clip is not necessarily representative of all 5 strings, listening to it though, I'm now beginning to think that perhaps she makes a valid point.
Well Matheu did have a microphone set up in front of him. Perhaps he did something in the mixing prior to posting or, as you say, maybe it was an echoy room. Personally I quite liked the sound. He has also posted some videos up now playing banjo. You should check them out. Here is a link to one of them.
Your girlfriend is right. There are various designs of 5 string violas and violins around and none of them sound anything like violins or violas. (If your are just playing in a band with a pic up though, it makes no difference.)
She does know what she's about regards things fiddle, for sure. However there's nothing like hearing it for yourself and I although I can't claim to having heard that many having now heard that clip and considering it along with my ears plus your's and ethical's comments, that'll do for me.
<<5 string violas and violins around and none of them sound anything like violins or violas. >> Ah.... what do they sound like? banjos? None of them? youve heard them all?!
What is the difference structurally between a 4 str Viola and a 5 string Viola? I dont mean a wider neck!
Historically These instruments went through many changes, and many versions and relatives , such as the 5 string quinton and 5 string Viol. Less pressure from less string equals more resonance ...
For a Viola player the top E is great for trad . I cant see much application for the low C on a fiddle , apart from accompanying voice.
That buzzing 5-string was going for $4,000? Sheesh, it sounded horrible!
I've tried 5 strings and don't like them. First off, the neck width, but also the sound... just kind of all middle of the road...
and they are advertised as 5-string violins, not violas, so I'm not sure what the difference would be, other than a week low response, as well as an unsatisfying high...
Well there is that Dick, But for C i just play in C, standard tuning. I Do actually play a 5 string my self but the C gets little use! Being a Viola though it adds a great tone to a session. Rather than duplicating the fiddle line , which it can do, but at a lower volume[on the E/A ] It has a very different overtone series, it looks like a big fiddle, but actually its a very different instrument.
I got a Chinese one for £300 It needed a bit of work but It gets complimented regularly in sessions so it cant sound that bad! Good strings; Eudoxa, because they are gut strings I keep the peterson tuner on all the time for regular fine tuning. and its well worn in.
It goes well with a fiddle but is not a replacement, its a Viola.
Another thought piobagusfidil, is that I, like many Fiddlers, like to drop the octave every now & then & I'm thinking that having that C string might open up a lot of new & interesting options for me.
I'm no fiddler but I know how they sound, I'm no violist but I know how they sound also. So not being a fiddler or violist I did ask the question of my other half, who's both (primarily the former), you can see my summation of her opinion in my post above.
Now, I'm not saying your wrong but I've been thinking (your favorite subject is coming) with that extra string added wouldn't that change the overall harmonic characteristic of either instrument? And if so, change the fundamental voice? You know that rich high quality a fiddle in reliable hands can achieve, wouldn't having an extra low string and the extra beef to support it detract from that?
I'm asking because I don't know, although I'm beginning to think that that is perhaps why there isn't one or two already at most sessions, concert halls etc..........
On a more serious note (pun!), I know a fiddle player who started his Irish music habit on a viola and he says he found it quite awkward to play Irish tunes on it. That's why he switched to fiddle.
There has been discussion that the viola might be worth re-visiting if I ever get a B set of pipes.
The reality of it, however, is that viola jokes are just as prevalent, if not more so, as drummer and accordion jokes, so why would anyone who could play Irish tunes on a fiddle more easily anyway subject themselves to that kind of abuse?
Yes,Solid, the C string should sympathetically vibrate. but the structure of the 'box' would still , unless there were structural changes be the same, I think, but screetch or some Luthier would know more.
Well, as regards why they are not used more... people get set in their ways, and they have no application in the classical world. plus they are a modern innovation [resurrection] so perhaps they will in time be adopted more , but I wouldnt expect it.
As regards their sound, well it has a different place , acoustically, in a session, its a Viola , So unless a player specifically wishes to expand their horizons or has some purpose, why would they be taken up by fiddlers? For a start its a huge ting compared to a fiddle, it takes a while to get used to.
The motivation must be there to support a change from violin to 5 str Viola. from Viola yes... good move because the E string is very handy, not much ergonomic change .
I tried several sized instruments with 5 strings. The violins couldn't really handle the C string IMO, the Viola lacks projection on the E string. Its a compromise , but if your situation , requirements or abilities suit that compromise then its a good choice.
Ah now Dick, fair enough, It does open up a whole range of possibilities. What I have done is swapped fiddles so then the other player plays normal fingering on the low string and I play in C etc on the top strings, that works well. If ye like to play in C etc and also in the bass its a great idea. My first 5 str cost 1$ plus 60 postage. plywood , for 1$ ! still a good price and cheap enough to be a way in.
It was enough to get me addicted though, I soon found myself getting more of them and now I rarely play a 4 str.. Yes I ended up on the Cello... sigh, but with the help of CPA[cello players anon] I weaned myself off and now, though I dont play the tiny 4 str now, Im still a Viola player... sigh.... Rehab?
Right. There's a little confusion here. There are 5-string violins and there are also 5-string violas. Same strings, different bodies. I read the descriptions given by the makers for the three 5-string violins that I tried, and have also read the description on Barry Dudley's website of his 5-string violins. 2 of the 3 makers whose 5-string violins I've tried made both 5-string violins and 5-string violas. The other maker plus Mr Dudley only make 5-string violins. In all of those cases, the makers state quite clearly that the structure of the instrument is not the same as either a standard violin or a standard viola. It has to be modified in some way, in the case of a violin by making the box a little deeper to allow for the resonance required by the C string and, in the case of the viola by reducing the depth sligthly, in the cases I saw, only on the treble side, to allow for the high frequency resonance required by the E string. In the case of both 5-string violins and 5-string violas the boxes generally need to be also strengthened somewhat.
Ok thats good to know. I dont think my Viola is any skinnier, but each maker will approach it in their own way. mine is 47mm on the edge and about 70mm in the centre.
"If ethical got the sort of viola he meant in his first post, he'd definitely get complimented in sessions. For wearing them in his hair. :P" TSS
But the debate has moved on, so please try to keep up (;~d
@ethical blend
Thanks, as I suspected, knew there'd have to be a some sort of compromise to make it work.
"I tried several sized instruments with 5 strings. The violins couldn't really handle the C string IMO, the Viola lacks projection on the E string. Its a compromise , but if your situation , requirements or abilities suit that compromise then its a good choice. " piobagusfidil
Thanks for that. I've tried 5 string mandolins before and I liked them, not so sure about the fiddola or violain mind, but if people like them well, why not.
Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
I see that a company ... Thompson and somebody or other ... are willing to sell me a viola for £2.99.
I've never been tempted to try a viola before. But at this price, maybe I should.
What do you think?
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by ethical blend
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Are you talking about the plant?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viola_(plant)
or the butterfly?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viola_(butterfly)
If it is the stringed instrument, is it made out of cardboard? There's gotta be a hitch, a glitch, or a typo. Even a $400 viola would be considered cheap student instrument.
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by banshee misfortune
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
There's a butterfly called a viola? Blimey, I never knew that. I suppose they could be sending butterflies in the post ...
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by ethical blend
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
I wouldn't bother, EB - the viola on offer is just in kit form ...
http://search.thompson-morgan.com/seeds/Winter%20Viola
... besides, it's the wrong time of the year ....
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
I have tO grow my own!!?!!?
'Ang on ... what am I going to do for a bow? Ah ... I think I see the answer coming ...
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by ethical blend
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
No, don't even think about it. Violas are deeply addictive and will absorb all your time and money. You'll find yourself hanging around outside sessions asking if anyone can spare a jig or a couple of reels. Next a dealer will offer you octave strings and you'll think it won't do any harm to try just once, you can stop any time you like . . . .
And then one day, you're a cellist and it's too late.
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by c.g.
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
I don't see the point of the viola in this kind of music. You lose a really useful string and gain a pretty useless one.
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
A cellist??!!?!
Can it get any worse??!?!!?
I hadn't realised the consequences of such a seemingly innocent act.
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by ethical blend
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
"'Ang on ... what am I going to do for a bow?"
http://images.craftsuprint.com/250prints/cynthiaberridge/250cup218462_452.jpg
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by Weejie
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Hang on in there, Bernie 29. You can say no. Resist the temptation. Keep that in mind and you won't be tempted . . .
Seriously, if you just play tunes at violin pitch, you need to get really good at playing in 3rd and 5th position. I can't see the point. I'd rather use the fiddle in sessions.
If you drop the tune down an octave, it will (almost certainly!) not require positions and will use as much of the C string and the fiddle does of a G string. Depends whether you and your session buddies like the sound or not.
Slow airs in the low octave are great. Low harmonies, if appropriate, are great.
I don't usually use the viola for sessions, and I don't think I would ever use the octave viola in a session.
I haven't got a cello yet.
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by c.g.
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
I just realised I said 'haven't got a cello YET'
Oh dear.
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by c.g.
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
I got to play an octave violin someone brought to the session once. Nice to mix things up. Pairing fiddle/octave fiddle created some interesting sounds. Also, becuase it wasn't as loud, it also paired up nicely with flute. Anything more than 5 people though and a session would drown it out. I imagine the same would go for any viola except for one that was both well made and well played.
I have played around with learning/rearranging tunes on my viola. So far not a fan. It is rare to find tunes that avoid the violin's E string, and taking those parts down an octave tends to take the life out of a tune. I know how to shift, but why do that when it doesn't feel natural, and I can just play my fiddle instead? There are a few tunes where drones on the C string can add a whole new color for a tune. Find enough of those and it may find some session life.
Total times I've taken my viola to session? Zero.
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by banshee misfortune
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Heheh. I got that Thompson and Morgan email too. I asked the missus whether I should reply asking how much their cellos were.
Never seen a viola at a session, but a wonderful lady called Caroline came to our sessions a few times with her cello a few years ago. Grand it was.
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by Steve Shaw
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Give up the cello idea, EB.
You'd be better of raising chickens ...
... and I know of some going cheep ....
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
silly thread
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by ...
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
It is what it is, and whatever you and anyone else who contributes makes of it, Michael.
"For example, right now i just think of Llig as a mean, aggressive, cynical party crasher, that just happens to give good advice."
I'm keeping that one. It's funny.
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by ethical blend
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Silly thread?
Yes isn't it. Sometimes it's nice to give up the rarified heights of pure thought and descend to the plains to have a laugh with friends.
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by c.g.
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
I'm struggling for a reply to that one (from c.g.) except one in language vaguely gleaned from the telly: Back at ya, bro!
Nervous laugh ... am I 'down' with it? Have I got it right?
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by ethical blend
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
"And then one day, you're a cellist and it's too late.
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by c.g."
This is patently ridiculous.
Modern science has never been able to prove reliably that violas are a gateway instrument to more serious musical addictions. It is almost like saying that whistles lead to flutes, or that shakey eggs lead to bodhrans.
There are simply too many other factors contributing to the overall profile of viola addiction, such as perfect pitch, a propensity for harmonizing, eclectic musical tastes, a certain maverick outlook, and, of course, better hygiene.
Also, a general preference for more severe clothing has been noted (black, black on gray, black and white, black and blue, more black, etc.) This may or may not be significant.
http://www.google.com/search?um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&biw=1280&bih=841&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=classical+viola+players&oq=classical+viola+players&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=2370l6217l0l6969l14l14l0l11l11l0l229l617l0.1.2l3l0
In the meantime, research goes on, so please give generously next time someone from Violas Anonymous comes knocking at your door.
Give till it hurts, people -
like when donating to CCE.
(oops)
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by Piece
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
I think it is the other way around. Violists are more likely to get a cheap fiddle and play trad. I mean, where else are you going to find classicly trained musicians to butcher a living tradition of music and strip it of ornamentation and life?
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by banshee misfortune
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
"where else are you going to find classicly trained musicians to butcher a living tradition of music and strip it of ornamentation and life?"
Try bluegrass, or Cape Breton, or Quebec, or
never mind.
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by Piece
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
A friend of mine gave me a Viola - This Guy..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-1V2_N-B70&feature=channel_video_title
I love playing it in the house although I find it hard work Physicality compared to the fiddle..
But I havent played it out yet.. has to be set up better.
But Charlie Lennon also play's Viola and has composed some very lovely tunes for it.
The Wishbone being one of them.
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/4773
jim,,,
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by FIDDLE4
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
sure get a 5 string Viola with an extra E.. or a 5 string fiddle with an extra C. Dont bother with a 4 string, unless your up for tunes in East Clare some time?
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
E B this might be the way to go:
Matheu Watson Plays on his Barry Dudley 5-String Fiddle:
Hornpipes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i_CeRa92_U
Jigs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWYIM8x2WiY
Reels:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5GjfgbSVp4
Cheers,
Dick
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by Ptarmigan
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Thanks, Ptarmy. In all seriousness, the 5-string efforts I've tried (made by somebody Scottish whose name I can't remember, somebody English who's well-known but I'd better not name plus one other) haven't appealed. I haven't liked them at all. Those vids looked all right though. Not my style, but good stuff all the same.
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by ethical blend
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Well, at $4,000, they are of course, just a wee touch more expensive than your £2.99 Viola!
Barry Dudley ~ Instruments:
http://www.barrydudley.com/instruments.html
Cheers,
Dick
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by Ptarmigan
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Hey Dick - I don't think anyone told him about the extra string...
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by Jerry O'Donnell
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
He found it!
http://youtu.be/sDbe0ioNS1g
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
It's weird sound on those clips isn't it? The acoustics of the room, I guess.
# Posted on August 20th 2011 by ethical blend
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
A weird sound??
# Posted on August 21st 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Ooh, I missed you coming back on this, NCFA. Yeah, it had a funny sort of hollow echo to it. Jangly, sort of. Sometimes you get that with new violins just from the instrument, but I don't think that was it. There was too much of it. I reckon it was just a funny echoey room.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by ethical blend
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
If you listen to the other Matheu Watson vids shot in the same room, guitar tenor banjo etc you can hear that it's unlikely to be the room.
I agree with ethical blend when he says:
" it had a funny sort of hollow echo to it. Jangly, sort of. Sometimes you get that with new violins"
That was my first reaction also, although I'd have described the sound as a little raspy, and it's not the player, Matheu is a quality young fiddle player and multi-instrumentalist. I'm no fiddler but I've sat next to enough well played fiddles often enough to recognise the voice. This instrument has a different voice regardless of the room quality of build age etc.
The girlfriend plays both fiddle and viola. She points out that the 5 string hybrids (and other hybrids) don't appeal to her as they exhibit none of the desirable qualities of either instrument, as she would say: "it's not a fiddle and it's not a viola, so what is it and why haven't they ever been part of the mainstream"?
She's a good enough player and tried enough of these hybrids to have an opinion. Although that clip is not necessarily representative of all 5 strings, listening to it though, I'm now beginning to think that perhaps she makes a valid point.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Well Matheu did have a microphone set up in front of him. Perhaps he did something in the mixing prior to posting or, as you say, maybe it was an echoy room. Personally I quite liked the sound. He has also posted some videos up now playing banjo. You should check them out. Here is a link to one of them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zol4C-YPp9A&feature=youtu.be
I believe more videos are on the way over the next few days.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Bit of a cross post there.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Thanks, Solidmahog. Most explanatory. And reassures me I'm not going mad (even though, in fact, I am
). Regards to the girlfriend. 
I'll check out that banjo clip later, NCFA.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by ethical blend
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Your girlfriend is right. There are various designs of 5 string violas and violins around and none of them sound anything like violins or violas. (If your are just playing in a band with a pic up though, it makes no difference.)
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by ...
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
"Regards to the girlfriend" eb
I'll be sure to pass them on ;o)
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
"Your girlfriend is right" llig leahcim
She does know what she's about regards things fiddle, for sure. However there's nothing like hearing it for yourself and I although I can't claim to having heard that many having now heard that clip and considering it along with my ears plus your's and ethical's comments, that'll do for me.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
"She does know what she's about regards things fiddle"
She's a top-class player. I've still got that glorious tone ringing in my ears now.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by ethical blend
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
<<5 string violas and violins around and none of them sound anything like violins or violas. >> Ah.... what do they sound like? banjos? None of them? youve heard them all?!
What is the difference structurally between a 4 str Viola and a 5 string Viola? I dont mean a wider neck!
Historically These instruments went through many changes, and many versions and relatives , such as the 5 string quinton and 5 string Viol. Less pressure from less string equals more resonance ...
For a Viola player the top E is great for trad . I cant see much application for the low C on a fiddle , apart from accompanying voice.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
"I cant see much application for the low C on a fiddle" You would if, like me, you played regularly with a Piper & his F set of Northumbrian Pipes.
Cheers,
Dick
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Ptarmigan
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
P.S. ....... &, playing along with Flat Uilleann Pipes in C & Bb/F Concertinas.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Ptarmigan
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
That buzzing 5-string was going for $4,000? Sheesh, it sounded horrible!
I've tried 5 strings and don't like them. First off, the neck width, but also the sound... just kind of all middle of the road...
and they are advertised as 5-string violins, not violas, so I'm not sure what the difference would be, other than a week low response, as well as an unsatisfying high...
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Well there is that Dick, But for C i just play in C, standard tuning. I Do actually play a 5 string my self but the C gets little use! Being a Viola though it adds a great tone to a session. Rather than duplicating the fiddle line , which it can do, but at a lower volume[on the E/A ] It has a very different overtone series, it looks like a big fiddle, but actually its a very different instrument.
I got a Chinese one for £300 It needed a bit of work but It gets complimented regularly in sessions so it cant sound that bad! Good strings; Eudoxa, because they are gut strings I keep the peterson tuner on all the time for regular fine tuning. and its well worn in.
It goes well with a fiddle but is not a replacement, its a Viola.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Another thought piobagusfidil, is that I, like many Fiddlers, like to drop the octave every now & then & I'm thinking that having that C string might open up a lot of new & interesting options for me.
Cheers,
Dick
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Ptarmigan
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
@piobagusfidil
but I've been thinking (your favorite subject is coming) with that extra string added wouldn't that change the overall harmonic characteristic of either instrument? And if so, change the fundamental voice? You know that rich high quality a fiddle in reliable hands can achieve, wouldn't having an extra low string and the extra beef to support it detract from that?
I'm no fiddler but I know how they sound, I'm no violist but I know how they sound also. So not being a fiddler or violist I did ask the question of my other half, who's both (primarily the former), you can see my summation of her opinion in my post above.
Now, I'm not saying your wrong
I'm asking because I don't know, although I'm beginning to think that that is perhaps why there isn't one or two already at most sessions, concert halls etc..........
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
If ethical got the sort of viola he meant in his first post, he'd definitely get complimented in sessions. For wearing them in his hair. :P
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Just call me "Petal".
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by ethical blend
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
On a more serious note (pun!), I know a fiddle player who started his Irish music habit on a viola and he says he found it quite awkward to play Irish tunes on it. That's why he switched to fiddle.
There has been discussion that the viola might be worth re-visiting if I ever get a B set of pipes.
The reality of it, however, is that viola jokes are just as prevalent, if not more so, as drummer and accordion jokes, so why would anyone who could play Irish tunes on a fiddle more easily anyway subject themselves to that kind of abuse?
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Yes,Solid, the C string should sympathetically vibrate. but the structure of the 'box' would still , unless there were structural changes be the same, I think, but screetch or some Luthier would know more.
Well, as regards why they are not used more... people get set in their ways, and they have no application in the classical world. plus they are a modern innovation [resurrection] so perhaps they will in time be adopted more , but I wouldnt expect it.
As regards their sound, well it has a different place , acoustically, in a session, its a Viola , So unless a player specifically wishes to expand their horizons or has some purpose, why would they be taken up by fiddlers? For a start its a huge ting compared to a fiddle, it takes a while to get used to.
The motivation must be there to support a change from violin to 5 str Viola. from Viola yes... good move because the E string is very handy, not much ergonomic change .
I tried several sized instruments with 5 strings. The violins couldn't really handle the C string IMO, the Viola lacks projection on the E string. Its a compromise , but if your situation , requirements or abilities suit that compromise then its a good choice.
....
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Ah now Dick, fair enough, It does open up a whole range of possibilities. What I have done is swapped fiddles so then the other player plays normal fingering on the low string and I play in C etc on the top strings, that works well. If ye like to play in C etc and also in the bass its a great idea. My first 5 str cost 1$ plus 60 postage. plywood , for 1$ ! still a good price and cheap enough to be a way in.
It was enough to get me addicted though, I soon found myself getting more of them and now I rarely play a 4 str.. Yes I ended up on the Cello... sigh, but with the help of CPA[cello players anon] I weaned myself off and now, though I dont play the tiny 4 str now, Im still a Viola player... sigh.... Rehab?
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Right. There's a little confusion here. There are 5-string violins and there are also 5-string violas. Same strings, different bodies. I read the descriptions given by the makers for the three 5-string violins that I tried, and have also read the description on Barry Dudley's website of his 5-string violins. 2 of the 3 makers whose 5-string violins I've tried made both 5-string violins and 5-string violas. The other maker plus Mr Dudley only make 5-string violins. In all of those cases, the makers state quite clearly that the structure of the instrument is not the same as either a standard violin or a standard viola. It has to be modified in some way, in the case of a violin by making the box a little deeper to allow for the resonance required by the C string and, in the case of the viola by reducing the depth sligthly, in the cases I saw, only on the treble side, to allow for the high frequency resonance required by the E string. In the case of both 5-string violins and 5-string violas the boxes generally need to be also strengthened somewhat.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by ethical blend
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Ok thats good to know. I dont think my Viola is any skinnier, but each maker will approach it in their own way. mine is 47mm on the edge and about 70mm in the centre.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzaDj7qWapc
!!!!!!! What is that?
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Well the only other 5 string fiddler that I can think of off the top of my head is Patsy Reid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO4plbNbrQ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Jwf26pu400
and it doesn't seem to have hurt her sound too much!
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
"If ethical got the sort of viola he meant in his first post, he'd definitely get complimented in sessions. For wearing them in his hair. :P" TSS
But the debate has moved on, so please try to keep up (;~d
@ethical blend
Thanks, as I suspected, knew there'd have to be a some sort of compromise to make it work.
"I tried several sized instruments with 5 strings. The violins couldn't really handle the C string IMO, the Viola lacks projection on the E string. Its a compromise , but if your situation , requirements or abilities suit that compromise then its a good choice. " piobagusfidil
Thanks for that. I've tried 5 string mandolins before and I liked them, not so sure about the fiddola or violain mind, but if people like them well, why not.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
interesting prior discussion;
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/12102
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Another bit of sidetracking but here is a new video from Matheu on the baritone uke - lovely stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im-PLBBRsUs
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
@NCFA
Aye, and playing an Angus crowd pleaser............ the wee jessie.
Still, it sounds better than the 5 string squiggle ;o)
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: Cheap violas - should I give it a go?
Another 'low fiddle' option: http://www.darolanger.com/bariton.html
# Posted on August 23rd 2011 by mcswiss