I am looking for bibliographic information on "The Hidden Ireland: The First Selection of Irish Traditional Compositions of Seán Ryan." Is there anyone with a copy of this book who can send me the name of the compiler (Brian Ryan?), the publisher, the place, and the date of publication? And/or put me in touch with Brian Ryan. Contact me off list: songer at portcoll.com.
ISBN numbers don't lie - so the Ossian edition must be later. I think this website (which seems to be unfinished) is run by Brian Ryan, and cites the date as 1988:
But the ISB Number doesn't contain an indication of the year of publication so it is really silent on the matter. It does give yo ua handle to go back to the full description in your National Bibliography which may reveal the year of publication. I f the publication doesn't have a year of publication printed in it you may find an S.A. in the description though.
An ISBN number does link to a year of publication, like you say. All I'm saying is that the number as presented must be a later edition. It wouldn't say "1999" when you enter the ISBN number in the Amazon database, for example (unless there is an almighty cock-up which isn't completely unknown), if the real date of publication under that ISBN number was 1988.
I have some ISBN numbers allocated to future publications, and they don't contain a date, as you say, but once they are assigned to a publication and the publication is registered with the ISBN agency, the date of publication is set in stone. In that respect, the ISBN number doesn't lie.
Like I said, International Standard Book Number Numbers are silent on the matter, they're at best a link to a description that provides more extended bibliographical data.
"Like I said, International Standard Book Number Numbers are silent on the matter, they're at best a link to a description that provides more extended bibliographical data"
The ISBN is a registered number assigned to a book and the registration involves certain information. The purpose of the number is to provide ready information for booksellers and libraries to obtain the book - the year of publication being part of that information (the year tells you the actual edition as well as the publication date). The ISBN is therefore a code - and although the number doesn't actually speak, it doesn't give misinformation (that is the phrase I replaced with "lie" - I have a licence for that).
You certainly are competing with me for the pedant of the year award, Prof.
Oh, I missed out that the number is also there for a potential buyer or reader to obtain the book from said bookseller or library. That is better than "a link to a descrition", it is making the book more readily obtainable.
The International Book Number Number as Will provided it above for the Ossian edition is the same as the one in for the original edition, which comes without publisher data or year of publication. So in this case it may not lie, it's not necessarily giving you the last word on the publisher, or the year of publication of a particular edition either. It may well link you to different editions from different publishers.
"Well the book I have tells me nothing apart from lots of tunes and the short intro!? So which edition is that? "
Does it have an ISBN? Is it published by Ossian?
If neither, it could well be that Brian Ryan published it himself initially (as I suspect). There is no obligation to register a publication with the ISBN agency - indeed, they might refuse to assign an ISBN to it if it contains only sheet music with limited text (there is also a music numbering system). If you have a pre-Ossian edition, you probably have the information that the OP requires, Piobagus.
" So in this case it may not lie, it's not necessarily giving you the last word on the publisher, or the year of publication of a particular edition either. It may well link you to different editions from different publishers. "
If the ISBN has been registered legitimately then the information will be correctly provided by the ISBN database. Unless the original book is just reprinted, all subsequent editions have to be registered with the ISBN agency and if significant changes are made to the publication (and a change of publisher would be a significant change) then a new ISBN number will be required. I very much doubt if the 1988 edition used the same ISBN number.
"@Weejie
no information as to publisher or anything! "
As I suspected, Piobagus. It seems quite possible that it was published by Brian Ryan. Despite what the Prof says, the ISBN prefix itself does contain a unique code for a particular publisher (and I was dealing with Ossian in the early 90s - everything was done properly) so if the number was the same, Ossian would be the publisher (and 1988 would appear on the database). Unless, of course, Bulmer had a hand in it!
Thanks to all of you! Within a couple of hours of posting this query, I received a message with current contact info for Brian Ryan. I've now been directly in touch with him and have all questions answered. I'm happy to see that this topic sparked such a lively discussion.
Seán Ryan Tune Book Info Needed
Seán Ryan Tune Book Info Needed
I am looking for bibliographic information on "The Hidden Ireland: The First Selection of Irish Traditional Compositions of Seán Ryan." Is there anyone with a copy of this book who can send me the name of the compiler (Brian Ryan?), the publisher, the place, and the date of publication? And/or put me in touch with Brian Ryan. Contact me off list: songer at portcoll.com.
Thanks so much.
Sue Songer
# Posted on August 10th 2011 by songer
Re: Seán Ryan Tune Book Info Needed
Sue, I don't have a copy of the book in front of me, but it *was* compiled by Sean's son Brian. Most sources cite a publication date of 1999.
Some info at http://openlibrary.org/books/OL16449654M/The_hidden_Ireland
82 tunes, 43 p. of music.
Published by Ossian Publications, Cork, Ireland.
ISBN 0951341502
# Posted on August 10th 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: Seán Ryan Tune Book Info Needed
It was available LONG before 99, I seem to recall getting it by 1993.
The second volume of tunes (in the introduction ) quotes 1988 as a publication date for 'Hidden Ireland' .
# Posted on August 10th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Seán Ryan Tune Book Info Needed
ISBN numbers don't lie - so the Ossian edition must be later. I think this website (which seems to be unfinished) is run by Brian Ryan, and cites the date as 1988:
http://seanryanmusic.net/compositions.html
# Posted on August 10th 2011 by Weejie
Re: Seán Ryan Tune Book Info Needed
Oh - and you can contact "Brian" through that website.
# Posted on August 10th 2011 by Weejie
Re: Seán Ryan Tune Book Info Needed
'ISBN numbers don't lie'
But the ISB Number doesn't contain an indication of the year of publication so it is really silent on the matter. It does give yo ua handle to go back to the full description in your National Bibliography which may reveal the year of publication. I f the publication doesn't have a year of publication printed in it you may find an S.A. in the description though.
# Posted on August 10th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Seán Ryan Tune Book Info Needed
An ISBN number does link to a year of publication, like you say. All I'm saying is that the number as presented must be a later edition. It wouldn't say "1999" when you enter the ISBN number in the Amazon database, for example (unless there is an almighty cock-up which isn't completely unknown), if the real date of publication under that ISBN number was 1988.
I have some ISBN numbers allocated to future publications, and they don't contain a date, as you say, but once they are assigned to a publication and the publication is registered with the ISBN agency, the date of publication is set in stone. In that respect, the ISBN number doesn't lie.
# Posted on August 10th 2011 by Weejie
Re: Seán Ryan Tune Book Info Needed
Sean Ryan's e-mail contact is given in the comments section of this recording here;
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/3872
# Posted on August 10th 2011 by stoneboy2
Re: Seán Ryan Tune Book Info Needed
Like I said, International Standard Book Number Numbers are silent on the matter, they're at best a link to a description that provides more extended bibliographical data.
# Posted on August 10th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Seán Ryan Tune Book Info Needed
"Like I said, International Standard Book Number Numbers are silent on the matter, they're at best a link to a description that provides more extended bibliographical data"
The ISBN is a registered number assigned to a book and the registration involves certain information. The purpose of the number is to provide ready information for booksellers and libraries to obtain the book - the year of publication being part of that information (the year tells you the actual edition as well as the publication date). The ISBN is therefore a code - and although the number doesn't actually speak, it doesn't give misinformation (that is the phrase I replaced with "lie" - I have a licence for that).
You certainly are competing with me for the pedant of the year award, Prof.
# Posted on August 10th 2011 by Weejie
Re: Seán Ryan Tune Book Info Needed
Oh, I missed out that the number is also there for a potential buyer or reader to obtain the book from said bookseller or library. That is better than "a link to a descrition", it is making the book more readily obtainable.
# Posted on August 10th 2011 by Weejie
Re: Seán Ryan Tune Book Info Needed
Well the book I have tells me nothing apart from lots of tunes and the short intro!?
So which edition is that?
# Posted on August 10th 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: Seán Ryan Tune Book Info Needed
I was and deliberately too.
The International Book Number Number as Will provided it above for the Ossian edition is the same as the one in for the original edition, which comes without publisher data or year of publication. So in this case it may not lie, it's not necessarily giving you the last word on the publisher, or the year of publication of a particular edition either. It may well link you to different editions from different publishers.
# Posted on August 10th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Seán Ryan Tune Book Info Needed
"Well the book I have tells me nothing apart from lots of tunes and the short intro!? So which edition is that? "
Does it have an ISBN? Is it published by Ossian?
If neither, it could well be that Brian Ryan published it himself initially (as I suspect). There is no obligation to register a publication with the ISBN agency - indeed, they might refuse to assign an ISBN to it if it contains only sheet music with limited text (there is also a music numbering system). If you have a pre-Ossian edition, you probably have the information that the OP requires, Piobagus.
# Posted on August 10th 2011 by Weejie
Re: Seán Ryan Tune Book Info Needed
" So in this case it may not lie, it's not necessarily giving you the last word on the publisher, or the year of publication of a particular edition either. It may well link you to different editions from different publishers. "
If the ISBN has been registered legitimately then the information will be correctly provided by the ISBN database. Unless the original book is just reprinted, all subsequent editions have to be registered with the ISBN agency and if significant changes are made to the publication (and a change of publisher would be a significant change) then a new ISBN number will be required. I very much doubt if the 1988 edition used the same ISBN number.
# Posted on August 10th 2011 by Weejie
Re: Seán Ryan Tune Book Info Needed
BTW, I have the "rule book" provided by the ISBN agency readily at hand - so if you want a pedantry contest, Prof......
# Posted on August 10th 2011 by Weejie
Re: Seán Ryan Tune Book Info Needed
@Weejie
no information as to publisher or anything!
# Posted on August 10th 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: Seán Ryan Tune Book Info Needed
"@Weejie
no information as to publisher or anything! "
As I suspected, Piobagus. It seems quite possible that it was published by Brian Ryan. Despite what the Prof says, the ISBN prefix itself does contain a unique code for a particular publisher (and I was dealing with Ossian in the early 90s - everything was done properly) so if the number was the same, Ossian would be the publisher (and 1988 would appear on the database). Unless, of course, Bulmer had a hand in it!
# Posted on August 10th 2011 by Weejie
Re: Seán Ryan Tune Book Info Needed
And by all means buy the double CD of Sean Ryan playing, also compiled by Brian. Wonderful music.
# Posted on August 10th 2011 by David Levine
Re: Seán Ryan Tune Book Info Needed
I've seen the 1988 date, too, and assumed that was when Brian first self-published the book.
Sue Songer will likely want to contact Brian, *and* also Ossian Publications, to get her ducks in a row.
# Posted on August 10th 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: Seán Ryan Tune Book Info Needed
Thanks to all of you! Within a couple of hours of posting this query, I received a message with current contact info for Brian Ryan. I've now been directly in touch with him and have all questions answered. I'm happy to see that this topic sparked such a lively discussion.
# Posted on August 11th 2011 by songer