I anchor my hand lightlly on the bridge and I realise that I get a much better tone not doing this. However I find it very difficult to do triplets, at a good speed anyway, without anchoring my hand on the bridge. Are triplets do-able without anchoring the right hand?
There are a couple of right hand positions that may help to keep the hand off the bridge.
1) Forearm resting on the rim at the tail piece, the heel of the hand just below (south or towards the rim) of the bridge. There's just a little loss through the tail piece but not very much and the bridge is clear of the hand. From the elbow the right arm and hand are in line with the neck.
2) Wrist on the rest, heel of the hand (the bit below the pinky) rests between the tail piece and rest. Right arm and hand laying slightly off (10-15ยบ off line with the neck). Again, the hand is clear off the bridge.
In both the wrist is the anchor allowing the hand and wrist joint to wiggle freely.
No: 2 is how I'm doing it ( but I've tinkered with 1 and liked it and can see why people anchor like this hold, I drifted back to hold 2 though).
In case you need another notion, I usually keep my third finger on the skin, just below the bridge. Some people call this a bad habit, but then some people like my banjo playing. Your call.
Jon doesn't that damper the sound? I'm using a cheap(ish) banjo that needs all the help, in tone, that it can get. I've never anchored on the head because I assumed that would hurt the sound. I'm sure the average listener doesn't notice or care about the tone of the banjo I'm just wondering if it's worth it to change my playing style to get a better tone and if It will be easy to eventually do triplets again without anchoring my hand. It seems pretty hard, right now, to do triplets "without "anchoring on the bridge.
I suppose it does a little, but that's a good thing. I want a percussion instrument, so I don't want the head ringing. Damping at the midway point of a radius seems to work, sort of like damping a bodhran at about the same point.
Anyway, it works for me.
The most important thing I've found in right hand technique for the banjo is to use the lightest possible grip on the pick. The banjo is not like the guitar or mandolin, you don't need to really push a lot of energy into it, and if you grip too tightly, the pick tends to catch and snag on the strings.
Should be more clear on this: I want a percussive attack with little sustain. A banjo head can ring more than I want it to, so I don't mind damping it a little. Some people achieve the same effect by the insertion of a sock behind the head. I imagine we could have great debates over whether organic cotton athletic socks are better than black silk dress socks...
I took a workshop a few years ago with Angelina Carberry. She recommended resting the palm lightly on the bridge and/or on the strings just behind the bridge - from observing her playing, she seems to use the same technique.
In another banjo workshop recently with Brian Taheny, he mentioned that Angelina was notable for the 'exceptionally good tone' she gets out of her banjo. Brian also recommended resting the hand in a fashion similar to what Angelina described. Brian gets great tone out of his Paragon banjo.
Everybody's different, so what works for one might not work for others, but it doesn't seem that having light contact between the right hand and the banjo necessarily degrades the tone in a substantive way - at least not on good quality banjos.
"I took a workshop a few years ago with Angelina Carberry. She recommended resting the palm lightly on the bridge and/or on the strings just behind the bridge - from observing her playing, she seems to use the same technique."
Hard to see if she is resting it there at times, but it certainly isn't anchored there. The whole hand is moving and she uses the wrist for triplets.
The hand needs to be free to relax and move IMO. There are some great players using the planted pinky but it's not for me.
Triplets will come. Clean picking is more important to nail first as this sets you up to play clean triplets.
Consistency in the righthand technique is the key to good tone picking and triplets. I would avoid allowing the hand to mute the bridge. But then I'm not handing out tips at banjo workshops :~)
I tried the planted pinky for a while, because a player that I was around when I was first starting out did that. But ultimately, I learned to curl my fingers up, for a much more compact motion (less momentum from the fingers flying around, and less damping of the sound).
The backs of my curled fingers lightly brush the head, but not enough to cause much damping. And the heel of my palm lightly touches the strings behind the bridge. Again, there's a slight damping from this, but not enough to make it worth changing, I think. If I lift my hand so that it isn't touching the instrument at all, except for at the arm rest, then the banjo rings a bit loud for my taste.
I also think that over time, you learn different techniques for expression with the banjo, and one of those techniques is subtly playing around with the dynamics of the instrument. So there are times that I subconsciously pull my hand off a bit to let a particular note ring more.
There's a lot of great info in this thread already. Reverend, I'm with you regarding planted pinky - Planted pinky should make executing triplets from the wrist more difficult in the long run. My pinky is folded under and lightly brushes the head, and long ago wore away a patch of the white coating on my Remo head.
My right wrist sits on the tone ring. The heel of my hand makes occasional contact with the strings behind the bridge. Intensional contact is for tonal effect.
As far as damping from behind, a futon, which has no internal frame or springs, provide both reliable damping and also serves well as a shield when things get out of hand.
right hand position banjo question
right hand position banjo question
I anchor my hand lightlly on the bridge and I realise that I get a much better tone not doing this. However I find it very difficult to do triplets, at a good speed anyway, without anchoring my hand on the bridge. Are triplets do-able without anchoring the right hand?
# Posted on August 6th 2011 by shanty
Re: right hand position banjo question
Anchoring the arm just above the wrist on one of those rest thingies that are clamped to banjos? It frees the hand and doesn't damp the sound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR0UWSDfRx8&feature=related
Or you can rest it on the rim:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgN20aFjAWI&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Tf7A13_Ex8
# Posted on August 6th 2011 by Weejie
Re: right hand position banjo question
I'm not actually certain Barney has got a rest clamped on his banjo on that clip. I know he has had them on his instruments.
There is one on this banjo, and a suggestion of how the hand should be free:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRWEXH6UJxk&feature=related
# Posted on August 6th 2011 by Weejie
Re: right hand position banjo question
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srWYmOoc4Aw&feature=related
# Posted on August 6th 2011 by Weejie
Re: right hand position banjo question
Are triplets doable?
http://www.youtube.com/user/michaelkeyes12#p/u/26/DTCu6WZvLcY
I should cocoa!
# Posted on August 6th 2011 by Weejie
Re: right hand position banjo question
There are a couple of right hand positions that may help to keep the hand off the bridge.
1) Forearm resting on the rim at the tail piece, the heel of the hand just below (south or towards the rim) of the bridge. There's just a little loss through the tail piece but not very much and the bridge is clear of the hand. From the elbow the right arm and hand are in line with the neck.
2) Wrist on the rest, heel of the hand (the bit below the pinky) rests between the tail piece and rest. Right arm and hand laying slightly off (10-15ยบ off line with the neck). Again, the hand is clear off the bridge.
In both the wrist is the anchor allowing the hand and wrist joint to wiggle freely.
No: 2 is how I'm doing it ( but I've tinkered with 1 and liked it and can see why people anchor like this hold, I drifted back to hold 2 though).
# Posted on August 6th 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: right hand position banjo question
I guess that answers that! Thanks folks. That's going to be a hard bad habit to break....
# Posted on August 6th 2011 by shanty
Re: right hand position banjo question
In case you need another notion, I usually keep my third finger on the skin, just below the bridge. Some people call this a bad habit, but then some people like my banjo playing. Your call.
# Posted on August 6th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: right hand position banjo question
Jon doesn't that damper the sound? I'm using a cheap(ish) banjo that needs all the help, in tone, that it can get. I've never anchored on the head because I assumed that would hurt the sound. I'm sure the average listener doesn't notice or care about the tone of the banjo I'm just wondering if it's worth it to change my playing style to get a better tone and if It will be easy to eventually do triplets again without anchoring my hand. It seems pretty hard, right now, to do triplets "without "anchoring on the bridge.
# Posted on August 6th 2011 by shanty
Re: right hand position banjo question
I suppose it does a little, but that's a good thing. I want a percussion instrument, so I don't want the head ringing. Damping at the midway point of a radius seems to work, sort of like damping a bodhran at about the same point.
Anyway, it works for me.
The most important thing I've found in right hand technique for the banjo is to use the lightest possible grip on the pick. The banjo is not like the guitar or mandolin, you don't need to really push a lot of energy into it, and if you grip too tightly, the pick tends to catch and snag on the strings.
# Posted on August 6th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: right hand position banjo question
"I want a percussion instrument"
Should be more clear on this: I want a percussive attack with little sustain. A banjo head can ring more than I want it to, so I don't mind damping it a little. Some people achieve the same effect by the insertion of a sock behind the head. I imagine we could have great debates over whether organic cotton athletic socks are better than black silk dress socks...
# Posted on August 6th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: right hand position banjo question
For a banjo, I would think a king-sized mattress would do nicely....
# Posted on August 6th 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: right hand position banjo question
I took a workshop a few years ago with Angelina Carberry. She recommended resting the palm lightly on the bridge and/or on the strings just behind the bridge - from observing her playing, she seems to use the same technique.
In another banjo workshop recently with Brian Taheny, he mentioned that Angelina was notable for the 'exceptionally good tone' she gets out of her banjo. Brian also recommended resting the hand in a fashion similar to what Angelina described. Brian gets great tone out of his Paragon banjo.
Everybody's different, so what works for one might not work for others, but it doesn't seem that having light contact between the right hand and the banjo necessarily degrades the tone in a substantive way - at least not on good quality banjos.
# Posted on August 7th 2011 by dfost
Re: right hand position banjo question
"I took a workshop a few years ago with Angelina Carberry. She recommended resting the palm lightly on the bridge and/or on the strings just behind the bridge - from observing her playing, she seems to use the same technique."
Hard to see if she is resting it there at times, but it certainly isn't anchored there. The whole hand is moving and she uses the wrist for triplets.
# Posted on August 7th 2011 by Weejie
Re: right hand position banjo question
"at least not on good quality banjos."
what say what?
I coulda sworn you just said...
nah, you didn't...
# Posted on August 7th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: right hand position banjo question
The hand needs to be free to relax and move IMO. There are some great players using the planted pinky but it's not for me.
Triplets will come. Clean picking is more important to nail first as this sets you up to play clean triplets.
Consistency in the righthand technique is the key to good tone picking and triplets. I would avoid allowing the hand to mute the bridge. But then I'm not handing out tips at banjo workshops :~)
# Posted on August 7th 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: right hand position banjo question
I tried the planted pinky for a while, because a player that I was around when I was first starting out did that. But ultimately, I learned to curl my fingers up, for a much more compact motion (less momentum from the fingers flying around, and less damping of the sound).
The backs of my curled fingers lightly brush the head, but not enough to cause much damping. And the heel of my palm lightly touches the strings behind the bridge. Again, there's a slight damping from this, but not enough to make it worth changing, I think. If I lift my hand so that it isn't touching the instrument at all, except for at the arm rest, then the banjo rings a bit loud for my taste.
I also think that over time, you learn different techniques for expression with the banjo, and one of those techniques is subtly playing around with the dynamics of the instrument. So there are times that I subconsciously pull my hand off a bit to let a particular note ring more.
# Posted on August 7th 2011 by Reverend
Re: right hand position banjo question
There's a lot of great info in this thread already. Reverend, I'm with you regarding planted pinky - Planted pinky should make executing triplets from the wrist more difficult in the long run. My pinky is folded under and lightly brushes the head, and long ago wore away a patch of the white coating on my Remo head.
My right wrist sits on the tone ring. The heel of my hand makes occasional contact with the strings behind the bridge. Intensional contact is for tonal effect.
As far as damping from behind, a futon, which has no internal frame or springs, provide both reliable damping and also serves well as a shield when things get out of hand.
# Posted on August 7th 2011 by BarryM
Re: right hand position banjo question
*intentional Also, to clarify, it is my right forearm that sits on the tone ring.
# Posted on August 9th 2011 by BarryM