He'd scratch less if his bow didn't wander off of perpendicular so much....
I like the full body capture for showing how quiet the bow arm shoulder is. It also shows a nice relaxed wrist for the short bows. But you'd need a lot more reference points to really reveal the nuances and relaxed fluency of the bow hand/arm.
Brilliant. I like the ones with the Bach Partitas was well.
I like how there are sections that show what angles the bow hits what strings. There are quite a few places where he's just barely moving from one side of line to the other. Really efficient, really smooth.
I'd love to be able to use something like that as a practice tool.
violamike, that string crossing efficiency is all about forgetting the string planes they teach in violin pedagogy (I know cuz I did some of that in college), and letting the hand dip at the wrist to catch a string lower than the plane you're already on.
So if you bow on the D string plane and dip the wrist to catch A string notes, without moving your elbow off the D string plane, it's extremely efficient and smooth.
And all you need to feel this is a door jamb or countertop to brace your forearm against while you chance strings with your wrist only.
Will, I've just stumbled into that wrist dipping thing in the last
couple of weeks. It works only if I dial back the motion - really
gentle, quick and subtle. Fiddle technique seems like an onion of
infinite size where you're constantly peeling off more layers
finding new secrets on the next layer. It's kind of relaxing to switch
over to flute for a break, where it's much simpler.
I had a chance to play/listen in a session this fiddler (Pascal
from the band Genticorum) last year for a short time. He's a huge
man; he keeps those four limbs going always, like Martin Hayes
on steroids.
I know Jim, but that's my experience with the two instruments.
Maybe because I grew up playing recorder and then clarinet.
I'm a long ways from figuring out what Crawford and McGoldrick
are doing though
@will: that's now at all how I learned. The door jamb ( or wall) trick could be useful, but I did learn how to control my by using my wrist and fingers only, which was very useful. I've got no idea what the whole "string planes" deal is. My instructor basically showed me how to lay my bow on two strings, then change strings with just a little movement up and down. It's really useful for smooth bowing from a long note on one string to a long note on a another. A slow smooth movement will make a nicer transition than one big jerky one.
And yea, having a relaxed wrist, what you were talking about earlier, goes along with a lot of what I heard in my instruction as well.
Some violin players start out playing by placing their bow to be equally far away from the neighboring strings. This way you don't go around accidentally bumping those strings and making a lot of noise. Once you have more control you can move on to being a little bit more conscious of your bow placement and anticipate bow crossings by moving your bow angle a little closer to that string. I really don't think about this much anymore when I'm actually playing, I just do it. Except when I don't.
That's about it, and it doesn't have to be about "classical vs fiddle vs irish" which is just a stupid argument. Good bow technique is good bow technique, regardless of the style. I've seen plenty of fiddlers, live or on youtube, that have great control over their bow and sound. Doesn't matter to me if they have classical training or not.
One way to look at fiddle playing
One way to look at fiddle playing
Check these videos. Not quite ITM, but close enough. And lots of indication of how one fine player does things.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuFPmEJkSkA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2zkrT76CvI
Doesn't mean much directly to me, since I scratch at the fiddle on my best days, but to those of you who play....
# Posted on August 4th 2011 by cboody
Re: One way to look at fiddle playing
He'd scratch less if his bow didn't wander off of perpendicular so much....
I like the full body capture for showing how quiet the bow arm shoulder is. It also shows a nice relaxed wrist for the short bows. But you'd need a lot more reference points to really reveal the nuances and relaxed fluency of the bow hand/arm.
# Posted on August 5th 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: One way to look at fiddle playing
Brilliant. I like the ones with the Bach Partitas was well.
I like how there are sections that show what angles the bow hits what strings. There are quite a few places where he's just barely moving from one side of line to the other. Really efficient, really smooth.
I'd love to be able to use something like that as a practice tool.
# Posted on August 5th 2011 by banshee misfortune
Re: One way to look at fiddle playing
^ They just don't make spambots like they used to. Poor show.
# Posted on August 5th 2011 by Whiddler
Re: One way to look at fiddle playing
violamike, that string crossing efficiency is all about forgetting the string planes they teach in violin pedagogy (I know cuz I did some of that in college), and letting the hand dip at the wrist to catch a string lower than the plane you're already on.
So if you bow on the D string plane and dip the wrist to catch A string notes, without moving your elbow off the D string plane, it's extremely efficient and smooth.
And all you need to feel this is a door jamb or countertop to brace your forearm against while you chance strings with your wrist only.
# Posted on August 5th 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: One way to look at fiddle playing
Very interesting from many viewpoints. Thanks cboody.
# Posted on August 5th 2011 by gam
Re: One way to look at fiddle playing
Will, I've just stumbled into that wrist dipping thing in the last
couple of weeks. It works only if I dial back the motion - really
gentle, quick and subtle. Fiddle technique seems like an onion of
infinite size where you're constantly peeling off more layers
finding new secrets on the next layer. It's kind of relaxing to switch
over to flute for a break, where it's much simpler.
# Posted on August 5th 2011 by Hup
Re: One way to look at fiddle playing
I had a chance to play/listen in a session this fiddler (Pascal
from the band Genticorum) last year for a short time. He's a huge
man; he keeps those four limbs going always, like Martin Hayes
on steroids.
# Posted on August 5th 2011 by Hup
Re: One way to look at fiddle playing
"It's kind of relaxing to switch
over to flute for a break, where it's much simpler"
How insulting is that!
# Posted on August 5th 2011 by skerries
Re: One way to look at fiddle playing
I know Jim, but that's my experience with the two instruments.
Maybe because I grew up playing recorder and then clarinet.
I'm a long ways from figuring out what Crawford and McGoldrick
are doing though
# Posted on August 5th 2011 by Hup
Re: One way to look at fiddle playing
I had just heard actor Andy Serkis talk on public radio about the body capture shooting for Gollum in Lord of the Rings...
Poor old Gollum might have had a better life if he had ditched the ring and taken up the fiddle...or not...
# Posted on August 5th 2011 by full measure
Re: One way to look at fiddle playing
@will: that's now at all how I learned. The door jamb ( or wall) trick could be useful, but I did learn how to control my by using my wrist and fingers only, which was very useful. I've got no idea what the whole "string planes" deal is. My instructor basically showed me how to lay my bow on two strings, then change strings with just a little movement up and down. It's really useful for smooth bowing from a long note on one string to a long note on a another. A slow smooth movement will make a nicer transition than one big jerky one.
And yea, having a relaxed wrist, what you were talking about earlier, goes along with a lot of what I heard in my instruction as well.
Some violin players start out playing by placing their bow to be equally far away from the neighboring strings. This way you don't go around accidentally bumping those strings and making a lot of noise. Once you have more control you can move on to being a little bit more conscious of your bow placement and anticipate bow crossings by moving your bow angle a little closer to that string. I really don't think about this much anymore when I'm actually playing, I just do it. Except when I don't.
That's about it, and it doesn't have to be about "classical vs fiddle vs irish" which is just a stupid argument. Good bow technique is good bow technique, regardless of the style. I've seen plenty of fiddlers, live or on youtube, that have great control over their bow and sound. Doesn't matter to me if they have classical training or not.
# Posted on August 5th 2011 by banshee misfortune