Does anyone know of a spreadsheet, listing, website etc. that has the various names of a given tune? I was trying to find an mp3 and tin whistle tabs/sheet music for 'The Galway Piper' all over the net and had difficulties. By chance I finally came across 'The Rakes of Mallow" with Galway Piper in parenthesis. I also discovered its Gaelic name is 'An Rinnce Mor'. I've had similar expereinces with other tunes.
A single cross-reference would be great, especially for a newbie to ITM like me. If there's not one already maybe we can collectively create one, possibly through a wiki type file
The tune database on this site will list all sorts of alternate titles for tunes (and they will generally show up with searches for any of the alternate titles). If you find a tune, and go to the page dedicated, it will list all of the "known" titles for that tune, and allow you to input alternate titles.
But honestly, that feature is probably accelerating the proliferation of "wrong" titles for tunes!
And even further, there's sometimes discussion about the name of the tune in the Discussion tab for the particular tune, which can be a wonderful resource for different settings of a tune, etc.
There are plenty of resources out there to help you figure out the names of tunes, if you're stuck. I wrote a search page that allows you to put in ABC, and it will do a "fuzzy" match, to find tunes that are at least really similar. (http://abctunesearch.com), but that pales in comparison to TunePal (http://tunepal.org), which allows you to search by playing!
But really, you should just learn to embrace the fact that the names of the tunes are sometimes ambiguous. For instance, sometimes a tune might be known as "Finbar Dwyer's", when FInbar doesn't even know the tune, it's just that someone thought that they heard him playing it. Or someone once had the wrong name for the tune and it stuck... It's all part of the charm of the music. And after all, it's the tune that's important, not the name.
Hey Reverend - thanks for the quick reply and the details. I'll check out the sites noted. I agree part of the charm of ITM has to do with the process of discovery. At the very least, trying to figure out what's what, is a conversation starter
I wonder though... people say that the names aren't at all important. But how would the music be indentified if there were no names for tunes? How would the music spread? How would the fame of some of the tunes spread? Chances are, we'd get tunes more mixed up than we do now wouldn't we? But if there were no names at all... i think the music would spread by notation, and #'s. Could you imagine? "Hey there fiddler! Doya' know tune #8645?" or better, "Hey, ya' know how to play that one tune?" "What tune?" "You know... that one that goes..." "This one?" "No..." "This one???" "No..." "This one?!" "No!" ...
There are some traditions (like Brittany and Bulgaria) where tune titles are almost unheard-of - the closest you get is "[dance type] from [village]".
In Scottish tradition the names do matter for the oler tunes. Usually they're derived from songs, and for hundreds of years people knew the words and the associations that came along with them.
http://www.irishtune.info is a good source. Somewhat limited in scope by the size of the library of sources used, but carefully edited to minimize errors.
For older Scottish tunes: Charles Gore's "Scottish Fiddle Tune Index" does the job for what it covers. The start of each tune is numerically coded, and there is an index in code order so you can find tunes that start the same way.
For the whole British Isles but stopping around 1800, the National Tune Index microfiche set does the job rather better, using a different coding system. But shuffling microfiche isn't fun.
fiddlelearner, I guess it's really a matter of relative importance. I like trying to know the names of the tunes that I play, and in a lot of cases, I know 2 or 3 names for the tunes. I wasn't actually trying to say "don't learn the names of the tunes". I was was just pointing out that, relatively speaking, the tune is more important than the name. I play all sorts of tunes that I have no names for. But that's a lot better than knowing the names of tunes without knowing the tunes themselves.
Not the Website unfortunately but in the 'Ceol Rince na hEireann' books by Breandán Breathnagh, the alternative names for the tunes are listed at the rear of the book:
For instance the jig 'Coppers and Brass' is also shown as been Hartigans Fancy - The County Limerick Buckhunt - The Waves of Tramore - The Humours of Ennistymon - The Humours of Miltown - Lynn's Favourite. All the Notes on the tunes are in Irish which can be a bit frustrating for non Irish speakers, of which I am one, but I found those books very informative.
Hello Kokopelli - (you've always been my favorite Zuni mischief making demi-god, by the way). This whole tune title enigma is one of the wonderful tributaries in this ever flowing river of Irish music. In addition to the perplexing fact that there can be multiple names for one tune, there can also be one title that applies to many entirely different tunes! Toss the Feathers comes to mind. Don't let it vex you - embrace it as one of the quirks of this aural tradition. And to echo what Reverend said - the tunes themselves are the real identity. After a few years of playing, you will find that tunes will flow out of you in a set, with your brain paying absolutely no mind to what their "names" are.
Its a great day when your mind no longer requires the tune produce an ID card before leaving your head and entering the party.
"But how would the music be identified if there were no names for tunes?"
Do you know the one that goes like this? (Plays a few bars of music.) Or if you've got to communicate in a written fashion, G2dG BGdG|AGFG ABcA|BGGF GABc|d2fd cAFA....
Considering how many names have more than one tune, it's pretty much the only accurate way to figure out what tune you're talking about anyway!
>one title that applies to many entirely different tunes
For example:
>'Coppers and Brass' is also shown as been Hartigans
>Fancy - The County Limerick Buckhunt - The Waves of
>Tramore - The Humours of Ennistymon - The Humours of
>Miltown - Lynn's Favourite
Two of those names have other tunes to them (that I know of) and the Humors of Milltown is just a slip of the grey matter from the Return to Milltown (which is a reel, not a jig).
It's cool Reverend, i'm just giving the board a hard time. I think i've been hangin' around these folks for too long. Starting to act like them a little :P
Multiple tune names
Multiple tune names
Does anyone know of a spreadsheet, listing, website etc. that has the various names of a given tune? I was trying to find an mp3 and tin whistle tabs/sheet music for 'The Galway Piper' all over the net and had difficulties. By chance I finally came across 'The Rakes of Mallow" with Galway Piper in parenthesis. I also discovered its Gaelic name is 'An Rinnce Mor'. I've had similar expereinces with other tunes.
A single cross-reference would be great, especially for a newbie to ITM like me. If there's not one already maybe we can collectively create one, possibly through a wiki type file
# Posted on August 3rd 2011 by kokopellime
Re: Multiple tune names
The tune database on this site will list all sorts of alternate titles for tunes (and they will generally show up with searches for any of the alternate titles). If you find a tune, and go to the page dedicated, it will list all of the "known" titles for that tune, and allow you to input alternate titles.
But honestly, that feature is probably accelerating the proliferation of "wrong" titles for tunes!
And even further, there's sometimes discussion about the name of the tune in the Discussion tab for the particular tune, which can be a wonderful resource for different settings of a tune, etc.
There are plenty of resources out there to help you figure out the names of tunes, if you're stuck. I wrote a search page that allows you to put in ABC, and it will do a "fuzzy" match, to find tunes that are at least really similar. (http://abctunesearch.com), but that pales in comparison to TunePal (http://tunepal.org), which allows you to search by playing!
But really, you should just learn to embrace the fact that the names of the tunes are sometimes ambiguous. For instance, sometimes a tune might be known as "Finbar Dwyer's", when FInbar doesn't even know the tune, it's just that someone thought that they heard him playing it. Or someone once had the wrong name for the tune and it stuck... It's all part of the charm of the music. And after all, it's the tune that's important, not the name.
# Posted on August 3rd 2011 by Reverend
Re: Multiple tune names
Hey Reverend - thanks for the quick reply and the details. I'll check out the sites noted. I agree part of the charm of ITM has to do with the process of discovery. At the very least, trying to figure out what's what, is a conversation starter
Again thanks (this was my first post - WoW!)
# Posted on August 3rd 2011 by kokopellime
Re: Multiple tune names
I wonder though... people say that the names aren't at all important. But how would the music be indentified if there were no names for tunes? How would the music spread? How would the fame of some of the tunes spread? Chances are, we'd get tunes more mixed up than we do now wouldn't we? But if there were no names at all... i think the music would spread by notation, and #'s. Could you imagine? "Hey there fiddler! Doya' know tune #8645?" or better, "Hey, ya' know how to play that one tune?" "What tune?" "You know... that one that goes..." "This one?" "No..." "This one???" "No..." "This one?!" "No!" ...
# Posted on August 3rd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Multiple tune names
There are some traditions (like Brittany and Bulgaria) where tune titles are almost unheard-of - the closest you get is "[dance type] from [village]".
In Scottish tradition the names do matter for the oler tunes. Usually they're derived from songs, and for hundreds of years people knew the words and the associations that came along with them.
# Posted on August 3rd 2011 by Jack Campin
Re: Multiple tune names
Some Scottish pipe tunes (of known authorship) have had their titles changed (more than once) by the composer. Like this one:
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/4190
# Posted on August 3rd 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Multiple tune names
http://www.irishtune.info is a good source. Somewhat limited in scope by the size of the library of sources used, but carefully edited to minimize errors.
# Posted on August 3rd 2011 by GaryAMartin
Re: Multiple tune names
For older Scottish tunes: Charles Gore's "Scottish Fiddle Tune Index" does the job for what it covers. The start of each tune is numerically coded, and there is an index in code order so you can find tunes that start the same way.
For the whole British Isles but stopping around 1800, the National Tune Index microfiche set does the job rather better, using a different coding system. But shuffling microfiche isn't fun.
# Posted on August 3rd 2011 by Jack Campin
Re: Multiple tune names
fiddlelearner, I guess it's really a matter of relative importance. I like trying to know the names of the tunes that I play, and in a lot of cases, I know 2 or 3 names for the tunes. I wasn't actually trying to say "don't learn the names of the tunes". I was was just pointing out that, relatively speaking, the tune is more important than the name. I play all sorts of tunes that I have no names for. But that's a lot better than knowing the names of tunes without knowing the tunes themselves.
# Posted on August 3rd 2011 by Reverend
Re: Multiple tune names
Not the Website unfortunately but in the 'Ceol Rince na hEireann' books by Breandán Breathnagh, the alternative names for the tunes are listed at the rear of the book:
For instance the jig 'Coppers and Brass' is also shown as been Hartigans Fancy - The County Limerick Buckhunt - The Waves of Tramore - The Humours of Ennistymon - The Humours of Miltown - Lynn's Favourite. All the Notes on the tunes are in Irish which can be a bit frustrating for non Irish speakers, of which I am one, but I found those books very informative.
# Posted on August 3rd 2011 by Free Reed
Re: Multiple tune names
You can find Paul de Grae's excellent translations of the notes and tune titles of the CRE books on Nigel Gatherer's website.
# Posted on August 3rd 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Multiple tune names
Thanks for that Prof. That's a cracking link.
# Posted on August 3rd 2011 by Free Reed
Re: Multiple tune names
Hm, I did forget the link didn't I?
http://www.nigelgatherer.com/books/CRE/
# Posted on August 3rd 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Multiple tune names
Hello Kokopelli - (you've always been my favorite Zuni mischief making demi-god, by the way). This whole tune title enigma is one of the wonderful tributaries in this ever flowing river of Irish music. In addition to the perplexing fact that there can be multiple names for one tune, there can also be one title that applies to many entirely different tunes! Toss the Feathers comes to mind. Don't let it vex you - embrace it as one of the quirks of this aural tradition. And to echo what Reverend said - the tunes themselves are the real identity. After a few years of playing, you will find that tunes will flow out of you in a set, with your brain paying absolutely no mind to what their "names" are.
Its a great day when your mind no longer requires the tune produce an ID card before leaving your head and entering the party.
# Posted on August 3rd 2011 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Multiple tune names
"But how would the music be identified if there were no names for tunes?"
Do you know the one that goes like this? (Plays a few bars of music.) Or if you've got to communicate in a written fashion, G2dG BGdG|AGFG ABcA|BGGF GABc|d2fd cAFA....
Considering how many names have more than one tune, it's pretty much the only accurate way to figure out what tune you're talking about anyway!
# Posted on August 3rd 2011 by Sol Foster
Re: Multiple tune names
>one title that applies to many entirely different tunes
For example:
>'Coppers and Brass' is also shown as been Hartigans
>Fancy - The County Limerick Buckhunt - The Waves of
>Tramore - The Humours of Ennistymon - The Humours of
>Miltown - Lynn's Favourite
Two of those names have other tunes to them (that I know of) and the Humors of Milltown is just a slip of the grey matter from the Return to Milltown (which is a reel, not a jig).
# Posted on August 3rd 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Multiple tune names
But how would the music be indentified if there were no names for tunes?
Answer 'That tune that so and so plays', 'The one before such and such tune' etc
# Posted on August 3rd 2011 by minijackpot
Re: Multiple tune names
It's cool Reverend, i'm just giving the board a hard time. I think i've been hangin' around these folks for too long. Starting to act like them a little :P
# Posted on August 3rd 2011 by fiddlelearner