I'm watching a VH1 special called, "100 Greatest Artists of All Time." I personally think it should be titled "100 Greatest Pop Musicians of All Time" but that's just my opinion. Anyway, As i'm watching, i get the idea that maybe i should pick up some new artists to start listening to. Well... after getting from #80 to #20, i was overwhelmed by how many rock bands, rock stars, performers, individual artists, and of various genres, from to 60's to the 90's, there were. I'm sitting here thinking, there's no way i could give a listen to all the music, let alone aquire a taste for it if i didn't like it at first :/ I don't really know who or what to listen to anymore, other than the music i've collected. I don't wanna limit my influence to just music i've already learned, but i wanna expand it. But there's so much music, i don't even know what i wanna expand it with. I guess the best thing i can do, is finish building my repetoire and studies of my favorite pianist, then move on to the most popular musicians and bands ever to exist. If i'm lucky, i'll have enough time to look in the genres i actually favor but aren't at the top of my musical list.
Stick with the Irish. It's the protein amidst the carbs. It's the music that will bring a man to his senses. Bach and string quartets aren't bad either, but it's Irish music that gives us a never ending sense of discovery and delight.
You're not compelled or legally obliged to listen to everything. There are as many bands and genres of music as there are people, because playing music is as natural as talking - or it should be, if individuals allowed themselves the time to learn instruments in the genre,or accent of their choice. Listen to what takes your fancy and follow it. If you don't like it bin it. I like the example of Glen Gould, great pianist and authority on works of JS Bach - he was very fussy about what he did or didn't like. Even quite a lot of Bach's music - even some of his own recordings of Bach's music! Nobody is forcing you to like or listen to anything.
My current favourite band is Low http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_(band).
They are by no means my all time favourite band tho and that's the beauty of music
Yeah, great quote, no doubt JSB would have said the same. But let's not pretend to level everything out to just tunes. Otherwise Gary Glitter is on par with Beethoven, Bach or Ed Reavey. Fair enough if you're happy with that but not everyone would be.
You can't listen to all the music out there. There isn't even time to listen to all the GOOD music out there, which is only a tiny fraction of the whole.
What I tend to do is listen to stuff that has something to do with what I do as a musician. I don't bother with what is or is not the most popular.
Sounds like you're searching for some sort of roots or identity. There's a good argument to be made for sticking mainly with your own cultural community - by all means be aware of other cultural streams and be appreciative of them as suits your tastes. But what & where you come from, ultimately defines you. You can try to escape and redefine yourself but at the end of the day, it's a pretence..
Rather than trying to find stuff, let stuff find you. It will likely happen in less contrived circumstances and have more staying power and authenticity.
David Levine - Fine word's there < Stick with the Irish Music etc > & Rudall the time <You're not compelled or legally obliged etc >
I have listened to many other forms of Music.. And I remember Gerry O'Connor saying experiment with all types of music on the fiddle, once in Blackrock just outside Dundalk. So I did and it did help my music in an overall sense, he was right about that. This Guy !
"the most popular musicians and bands ever to exist." are not necessarily the best, or those you like the most. I can't stand opera, classical music passes me by, pop music is for me more like pap music, jazz is too arcane, and the dozens of exotic genres that I've at least listened to serve only to reinforce my conviction that Irish music is what I want to play. There are many books I haven't read, but I don't worry about it. And some of the best musicians have never made a recording, and will never be heard by you or me.
But the real question, fiddlelearner, is why are you wasting time watching the VH1 top 100 artists of all time?!!! Come on now turn that damn box off and get out that instrument 123456 123456 123456......
I don't understand the premise. It's as though, Jerone, you have no filters. Imagine using the same approach to find a girlfriend, scanning video clips of 4 billion women. Yikes!
Better to set some parameters based on your own inclinations and circumstances.
Also, it's one thing to open your ears to various musics. But you don't have to learn to play them all, eh?
David Levine, good stuff ;) Rudall, it's more of desire to want to hear the majority of the musics. I feel it's more of a creative necessity to allow my more favored musics to influences me. I don't feel obligated, i just want it DavidL35, i understand what you're saying. If i discover something and i like it, i tend to keep it whether it's pop or not. Pop doesn't mean much to me. My concern is that if the majority likes it, something must be good about it eh? The wounded hussar, i guess it's a little more about finding other musics to enjoy. I'm pretty sure about my identity as a composer. But maybe i'm not so sure it's complete. Gam, that end quote is the truth, but it's a tragedy :/ Shanty, iwas flipping through the channels, and it got my attention OK, as we say here in the states, "Don't Judge Me!" lol, (it's a humour quote, i don't know what from though)
Jerone, you probably didn't hear Richard Thompson's name in that list - or maybe you did, he's getting some respect now - but he made a similar comment when he was asked to compile a list of the "best pop songs of the milennium". I think he said "it was obvious they meant the milennium that ran from 1950 to 1990". He ended up doing an occasional tour, under the heading "1000 years of popular music". You can probably find some clips on BoobTube if you look. It's sort of fun.
Richard Thompson, now there is a name that belongs at the head of many lists. My personal favorites of his compositions are Dimming of the Day and Waltzing's for Dreamers, but there are many more.
Well worth your time, Jerone!
(And you have a wonderful dilemma, too much music for you to possibly hear and enjoy--I prescribe a lifetime of listening, it will make you feel much better!)
Yeah, there's too much good music out there to listen to it all. There are good reasons to stick to a certain genre or two, but it's also good to get into other types of music. There's really no such thing as a bad genre of music, there's good music to be found in any form.
It sounds like you're looking to get into pop music that you aren't familiar with. Pop music gets beat up a lot but there's nothing wrong with it. On a lighter note:
Pop music is really just fairly traditional ballads with various instrumentation. Personally, I think that the most interesting and innovative pop music has come out of synth pop, the best bands being Depeche Mode and Ladytron.
But to each his own. There's a lot of good pop music out there, but a lot of the commercial stuff is terrible.
The Beatles !! Makes me proud to be a scouser
I listen tto so many different genres but I always come back to Irish traditional. I don't think it's necessarily very healthy to only listen to one type of music. In fact I don't really understand how someone could do that without going a bit stir crazy.
And I love it when a friend sends me a link to someone I've not heard before it's like getting a birthday or christmas present.
how you become an artist at what you choose to do is not only about technique or knowing the great players and works in your metier....it's about your exposre and reaction to all kinds of stuff that's been expressed by those who have something worthy to say about what it is to be alive in this universe. there is no "high" or low" culture or art---it's just good and bad. and the more of the "good" stuff you interact with, the better it will be for you as a musician, because a musician is just a human being using that metier to take part in that universal conversation. there's no more or less "protein" and no more or less "pap" in rock, blues, bluegrass, jazz, etc, than there is in so-called "classical" music or irish traditional music. there's no need to be programmatic about it and make a chore out of it. open yourself to what calls to you, seek out the very best of it, and take it in, disagree with it, argue with it, admire it, morph it into your dna or not as you choose. sooner or later, you'll develop a nose for what's good and what's dross if you have even a smidge of the empathy and imagination it takes to be an expressive musician.....coltrane's "a love supreme," van morrison's "astral weeks," everything ever recorded by dock boggs or billie holliday.....joyce's "ulysses," dylan's "blood on the tracks," beethoven's ninth (there's a reason it's an overplayed chestnut), the photographs of josef koudelka or manuel alvarez bravo or edward weston........the best of the best is there for you to make use of as you become a contributor to the conversation. the way it happened for me and has happened for a lot of fellow travellers is, you fall really hard for an initial genre that grabs you and won't let you go. it cracks you open so you can hear great voices anywhere.....and after a while, those genre boundaries just dissolve, in terms of being able to see signposts on your road. you still have your chosen metier, but the signposts come from everywhere.....
I have to agree with Mr Levine; it's the only road to sanity. At
least for those living in the USA. Whenever I go back for a visit,
spending most of my time in Chicago, I find the diversity
overwhelming compared to Australia. I just have to ignore a
lot of music - life is short - there's too little time.
Take it all in, as it comes, but don't go out looking for it. There's plenty out there, and it'll come, but if you make a schedule of discovery you'll never have time to notice what you don't already know about.
If you like the Beatles, listen to what they do, listen to the people they listened to, and listen to the people who listened to them. When you find something you like, repeat.
Just don't make a list of stuff you have to listen to, and listen to it just to check it off the list. Nothing's more boring than listening to stuff because you're supposed to, and great music should never be boring.
My approach is similar to Jon's. I don't go out hunting for music, listen to whatever comes in my way and if I like it, listen to it again. Currently it is ITM and I think it will be like this for a long time, if not forever. Though occasionally I turn back to stuff such as Meshuggah, et. al. as well!
It's one of the problems with the digital revolution in society.
Copious amounts of data, Copious amounts of music, Copious amounts of a images, Copious amounts of "entertainment" (excuses for people to sit in front of a tube, avoid constructive thought, avoid productive activity, and absorb calories). If you like i will write 1500 page tome on the decline of Society as we know it and bemona the fact that there will be no original music, literature or science available in 150 years. (I will probably be off on a golf course some where digging out of sand traps)
Hidden amongst that haystack of Copious amount of digital everything are kernals of beautiful things...buried.
You have to find what 'floats you boat'....and keep in mind that there is just so much time in the day and you accomplish nothing spreading yourself too thin.
The other alternative is sitting in front of a tube watching Tom Cruse DVDs, avoiding any semblence of productivity and abosorbing huge amounts of unnecessary calories.
I am enjoying the irony of people on the internet complaining about information technology ruining the world.
I had another good wave if irony this morning ...
I was packing my wee boy's bag for nursery, sandwich, yoghurt, apple juice, sun hat, stegosaurus etc. It's a Dr Who Tardis bag, a little rucksack in the shape of the Tardis, and I was wingeing to myself about how it just wasn't big enough inside ... duh.
(There's a company in the states that markets a "bag of holding" but it turns out it's just a big satchel, which is not the same thing at all - very disappointing)
Nothing wrong with the technology itself. It's a matter of whether there is value to what it is good for.
Unfortunatly the illiterate masses use their ipods to schedule around episodes of the Bachlorette, whilst establishing a schedule to arrange their lives around future truth be told segments.
And then there is Rap and Hip Hop. A special place in hell for those.
At my age, I remember when the first Dr. Who was a wee boy....
Jerone - you have nothing to worry about. You're a young man with an insatiable appetite for music irrespective of genre. Good music will find you.
I personally feel most sorry for those folks whose embrace of music is purely to fulfill some personal sense of a social uniform or identity. If the musical style doesn't fit into their worldview it is never sampled and even disparaged as being music from "those other, inferior groups of people." Sad to cut yourself off from the viewpoints of the rest of humanity that way.
"There are only two kinds of music - good and bad"
That statement has been variously attributed to Richard Strauss, Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis and probably numerous other musical figures.
"I personally feel most sorry for those folks whose embrace of music is purely to fulfill some personal sense of a social uniform or identity. If the musical style doesn't fit into their worldview it is never sampled... Sad to cut yourself off from the viewpoints of the rest of humanity that way."
You mean, like the old guys: Robert Johnson, John Lee Hooker, Mississippi John Hurt, Willie Clancy, Seamus Ennis, Junior Crehan, et. al.... ?
David - I have no idea where you're going with your list of legends above. I am speaking of anybody who refuses to listen to another style of music because of preconceived social prejudices. I can remember several heated threads here a few years ago where some Clare musicians where upset at the use of the term "diddly music" because they where of the opinion it originated in the minds of those who wished to disparage the Irish and their music. I know many folks who simply will not listen to American Country, Rap, Jazz, Punk, Funk, etc, etc simply because they have a preconceived negative notion about the people who listen and perform it. I'm saying there is good music out there regardless of style - I don't care if it's a Bollywood Musical or German Beer Polka. There is a world of interesting music out there for those who can see past the stereotypes. I feel bad for those who can't.
Hey Jusa, i saw a Bollywood musical for the first time a couple months ago. It was "Lagaan"(i think thats how yoi spell it) I can't say that i was less than amazed. The music and dancing was Fascinating. I don't like many musicals(the irony about me) but that one was amazing.
David - I don't know if you're familiar with Robert Johnson's life, but by the accounts that I've read he actually supported himself some of the time by busking on trains, and a large part of his skill there was a tremendous repertoire. He was apparently familiar with all of the music around him at the time, and not just the handful of songs in the one style he recorded.
John Hurt, of course, was very familiar with many styles of music as well, and I believe he had songs from the Appalachian Scots tradition in his bag. Looking at his discography, I can see obviously a number of creole songs and songs from the mountains, as well as songs like "The Spanish Merchant's Daughter" which I'm not familiar with but suggest a possible Continental or even an Insular origin.
I'm not as familiar with the history of Willie Clancy and the other gentlemen you mention, but on those two, I think you'll find that you've been under a misapprehension.
Jerone - Bollywood is great fun. If you want to see more, two of my favorites are the old classic called Sholay (think spaghetti western, but Bollywood - it's awesome!) and the 2002 version of Devdas with Sharukh Khan and Madhuri Dixit. Not only does that one have some great performances, but it's gorgeous to look at as well - try to see it on a good screen for the best effect.
One thing to keep in mind is that you can't really appreciate a form of music until you are familiar enough with it to truly understand what sort of musical effect it goes for, and therefore how to judge the good from the bad.
Take trad, for example. To an outsider, it may sound like simplistic diddley-dee music where every tune sounds the same. It sounds a lot different to insiders.
All genres of music are like this. You can fairly say that you don't like a certain type of music, but you can't fairly say that it's bad type of music unless you spend the time to get inside it and understand it, in which case you're likely to find that there's a bit you like about it after all.
But life is short and it takes time to grow your ears to appreciate a new form of music, so it's best to focus on a few favorites. But beware of dismissing genres that you're unfamiliar with as "bad music." If you do that, you make the same mistake as those who disparage trad while being ignorant of it.
"Not too much music. Too little time." I was feelin' it at first, but i changed my mind. There really is too much music. Too much heartless, souless, mindless music. Music that is not about art, or expression. Music that is beaten and abused for money.
Well, first of all, most(if not all) of underground rap music. I've worked with some of these poets, and a lot of them would come at me wanting a beat. A lot of them don't take the music seriously at all. Many try to use it to become "rich and famous" ignorant that this way isn't even the right way to do it. Too many popular rappers and a lot of them don't make a lot of money. Their poetry is lacking substance. All they talk about is how awesome they are, how much money they already have, how much better they are than everyone else. Their poetry is lame so they try to use music to push it forward.
Lots of musicians -- especially traditional musicians -- only stay within their genre and have little interest in other forms of music. They don't refuse to listen to other kinds of music. They simply are satisfied and moved by what they know and have played all their lives. They have no desire to move outside.
I don't know how much Robert Johnson listened to other kinds of music. All I know is what I hear him play. The same with John Hurt. It seems beside the point to find fault with people who are only interested in one kind of music and don't seek out other forms of music. There's nothing wrong with being satisfied with -- and finding joy in -- the tradition you grew up in, without reference to other traditions.
Another example would be a lot of pop music. Yea, you get some good bands, singers, and other musicians that care about the music, meaningful poetry to accompany it, and want to do something good with it. Then you have those that exploit the music. Using catchy rhythms, chord progressions, and melodies to make it popular really fast. I've done my share of shallow composing, but it was so uninspired, i couldn't do anything with it.
"One thing to keep in mind is that you can't really appreciate a form of music until you are familiar enough with it to truly understand what sort of musical effect it goes for, and therefore how to judge the good from the bad. Take trad, for example. To an outsider, it may sound like simplistic diddley-dee music where every tune sounds the same. It sounds a lot different to insiders."
While this is true, I think it's also important to try to lift yourself out of your comfort zone and familiarity with diddley music. The sad truth is that the vast majority of the diddley music played does indeed all sound the same. If you try to approach each tune with fresh ears, pretend it's the first time you've heard or played it, you stand a greater chance of injecting more invention, and hence it shouldn't all sound the same.
It does annoy me when diddlers are confronted with that old chestnut "it all sounds the same" and they just shrug it of and merely claim that it cam from an "outsider" (what a stupid term). What you should be doing is thinking about that last set you played and asking your self, perhaps he's right there.
Well, having heard bands, soloist, duets, and crazy instrument combinations(wish i could find more concertina/harp duets) my ears are really open to this music and it all doesn't sound the same anymore. But looks at this. A lot of the music does sound the same, but it's not just ITM, and it's especially ANY instrumental style of music. This is why. All raps and hip-hops use simple repetitive rhythms. All Electronicas use the same 4/4 rhythm(not rhythms). Cultural styles use the same instrumentation, as well as melodic and chordal patterns in all their tunes/songs. So basically, if all the rhythms sound a like, all the instruments(sounds) are the same, and the genre identifies with certain melodic and chordal patterns, everything in the genre will sound the same. In ITM, reels and jigs being most common, and a handful of instruments respective of the genre, it's natural that it all sounds the same. The fact that most of it is instrumentl, reinforces this.
The "tyranny of 4" meaning the extensive use of the 4/4 time signature? Well, it's dealed a worse blow in ITM because there's little rhythmic variation. It's a tragedy in the Electronicas because in really EVERY song, they use the same kick, hi-hat, kick hi-hat, pattern.
The reason that electronic dance music uses a 4/4 beat is because it's easy to dance to. You don't need to learn a special dance to dance to a 4/4 beat, a couple of drinks will do. If you're making music for a club dance floor, 4/4 is a practical necessity.
All dance music is repetitive by nature, whether it's in a club or a session. It all sounds the same if you aren't familiar enough with it to listen to what isn't the same. Saying that all electronic music uses the same beat (really not true) or that using 4/4 is unimaginative and should be avoided, shows exactly the sort of outsider's ignorance of a genre that I was talking about.
Jerone, if you think there is little rhythmic variation in reels, there's still a heck of a lot you are not hearing. But this is in the music played well of course, As I said earlier, when played badly there certainly is no rhythmic variation. It's the rhythmic variation that sets the good from the bad.
"All dance music is repetitive by nature". This couldn't be further from the truth. But, "If you're making music for a club dance floor, 4/4 is a practical necessity."?? Only because you are making music for a bunch of indoctrinated unimaginative yobs.
David - you're a great flute player (you must come back to Phoenix sometime) but you've read far too much into what I said. I agree, there is nothing wrong with being content within the musical culture you've known and played all your life as illustrated in your list of legends. I am simply saying I think that those who eschew other styles because of reasons other than the music itself are missing out on a lot of potentially great music. Hell, I'm guilty of the very thing I am proselytizing about. I have trouble appreciating bands like The Cure / Depeche Mode / Morrissey, etc because I have a prejudice against mopey, foppish, fag-puffing Londoners. There, I admitted it. Guilty as charged Mu' Lawd.
Now Jerone may have grown up in Texas, but he's not limiting himself to Barbecue. I salute the fact that he wants to sample from the vast musical buffet that exists out there. I think that is commendable. I have no doubt he will find lots of things he likes, yet will still return to his favorite musical dishes as we all do eventually.
Well Marklar, it shows you're more matured musically than I. You're able to see past the pretentious gloom and misery in order to appreciate the music for the music's sake. Sigh - I'm still a work in progress. When it comes to Londoner's I'll take Lemme or Joe Strummer over Robbie Smith any day.
Thorney, thanks.
Of course, we agree more than we disagree. But the trick to the ITM is total immersion. You can't kid around with it and get it right. That's the difference between playing an Irish tune and playing ITM. The nyah and all that.
I don't think it will make you a better player of ITM to listen to jazz, for instance, or Mozart or pop. For jazz or Mozart to inform your playing I think you have to be a pretty good player of ITM already. Classical technique on the fiddle is great (Wanda Law and Zoe Conway) but it can be neither the one thing or the other that comes out clearly without that immersion, that tunnel vision, at some point in your development as a player of ITM.
James Galway is a great interpreter of Mozart but I'm not moved by his Sligo Maid. Or by his whistle playing. OTH, you oughta hear Mississippi John Hurt sing Beethoven's Fifth on an old record by Pat Sky, another legend -- who started out playing guitar and banjo and who is now a highly accomplished player and maker of uillean pipes. Or Aaron Olwell, an accomplished player of fiddle, concertina, and flute, and who plays ITM and old time with equal conviction and expertise. But people like that are pretty rare.
David - Agreed, total immersion is the key when learning a style. I'm only speaking in regards to what consitutes "good and bad" music in the ears of the listener and the psychological road blocks people unconsciously put up.
I heard one a few weeks ago - "Pecker Dunne? That's "traveler" music - I won't listen to that..."
Too much music :(
Too much music :(
I'm watching a VH1 special called, "100 Greatest Artists of All Time." I personally think it should be titled "100 Greatest Pop Musicians of All Time" but that's just my opinion. Anyway, As i'm watching, i get the idea that maybe i should pick up some new artists to start listening to. Well... after getting from #80 to #20, i was overwhelmed by how many rock bands, rock stars, performers, individual artists, and of various genres, from to 60's to the 90's, there were. I'm sitting here thinking, there's no way i could give a listen to all the music, let alone aquire a taste for it if i didn't like it at first :/ I don't really know who or what to listen to anymore, other than the music i've collected. I don't wanna limit my influence to just music i've already learned, but i wanna expand it. But there's so much music, i don't even know what i wanna expand it with. I guess the best thing i can do, is finish building my repetoire and studies of my favorite pianist, then move on to the most popular musicians and bands ever to exist. If i'm lucky, i'll have enough time to look in the genres i actually favor but aren't at the top of my musical list.
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Too much music :(
Stick with the Irish. It's the protein amidst the carbs. It's the music that will bring a man to his senses. Bach and string quartets aren't bad either, but it's Irish music that gives us a never ending sense of discovery and delight.
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by David Levine
Re: Too much music :(
You're not compelled or legally obliged to listen to everything. There are as many bands and genres of music as there are people, because playing music is as natural as talking - or it should be, if individuals allowed themselves the time to learn instruments in the genre,or accent of their choice. Listen to what takes your fancy and follow it. If you don't like it bin it. I like the example of Glen Gould, great pianist and authority on works of JS Bach - he was very fussy about what he did or didn't like. Even quite a lot of Bach's music - even some of his own recordings of Bach's music! Nobody is forcing you to like or listen to anything.
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by Rudall the time
Re: Too much music :(
one of my early mentors in Irish music, also a fiddler, once said to me "those guys playin Bach are just playin tunes. same as we're doin"
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by pipewatcher
Re: Too much music :(
My current favourite band is Low http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_(band).
They are by no means my all time favourite band tho and that's the beauty of music
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by strayaway
Re: Too much music :(
@pipewatcher Great quote!
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by Mark Harmer
Re: Too much music :(
Yeah, great quote, no doubt JSB would have said the same. But let's not pretend to level everything out to just tunes. Otherwise Gary Glitter is on par with Beethoven, Bach or Ed Reavey. Fair enough if you're happy with that but not everyone would be.
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by Rudall the time
Re: Too much music :(
You can't listen to all the music out there. There isn't even time to listen to all the GOOD music out there, which is only a tiny fraction of the whole.
What I tend to do is listen to stuff that has something to do with what I do as a musician. I don't bother with what is or is not the most popular.
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by DaveL35
Re: Too much music :(
Sounds like you're searching for some sort of roots or identity. There's a good argument to be made for sticking mainly with your own cultural community - by all means be aware of other cultural streams and be appreciative of them as suits your tastes. But what & where you come from, ultimately defines you. You can try to escape and redefine yourself but at the end of the day, it's a pretence..
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by the wounded hussar
Re: Too much music :(
Rather than trying to find stuff, let stuff find you. It will likely happen in less contrived circumstances and have more staying power and authenticity.
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by Steve L
Re: Too much music :(
David Levine - Fine word's there < Stick with the Irish Music etc > & Rudall the time <You're not compelled or legally obliged etc >
I have listened to many other forms of Music.. And I remember Gerry O'Connor saying experiment with all types of music on the fiddle, once in Blackrock just outside Dundalk. So I did and it did help my music in an overall sense, he was right about that. This Guy !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhUYqWthbkc
But what you Guy's are saying there, still runs true to me even today -
jim,,,
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by FIDDLE4
Re: Too much music :(
"the most popular musicians and bands ever to exist." are not necessarily the best, or those you like the most. I can't stand opera, classical music passes me by, pop music is for me more like pap music, jazz is too arcane, and the dozens of exotic genres that I've at least listened to serve only to reinforce my conviction that Irish music is what I want to play. There are many books I haven't read, but I don't worry about it. And some of the best musicians have never made a recording, and will never be heard by you or me.
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by gam
Re: Too much music :(
I enjoy what I'm listening to right now. I don't worry about what I've listened to in the past and the future will bring what it will bring. Live NOW.
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by shanty
Re: Too much music :(
But the real question, fiddlelearner, is why are you wasting time watching the VH1 top 100 artists of all time?!!! Come on now turn that damn box off and get out that instrument 123456 123456 123456......
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by shanty
Re: Too much music :(
I don't understand the premise. It's as though, Jerone, you have no filters. Imagine using the same approach to find a girlfriend, scanning video clips of 4 billion women. Yikes!
Better to set some parameters based on your own inclinations and circumstances.
Also, it's one thing to open your ears to various musics. But you don't have to learn to play them all, eh?
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: Too much music :(
David Levine, good stuff ;) Rudall, it's more of desire to want to hear the majority of the musics. I feel it's more of a creative necessity to allow my more favored musics to influences me. I don't feel obligated, i just want it
DavidL35, i understand what you're saying. If i discover something and i like it, i tend to keep it whether it's pop or not. Pop doesn't mean much to me. My concern is that if the majority likes it, something must be good about it eh? The wounded hussar, i guess it's a little more about finding other musics to enjoy. I'm pretty sure about my identity as a composer. But maybe i'm not so sure it's complete. Gam, that end quote is the truth, but it's a tragedy :/ Shanty, iwas flipping through the channels, and it got my attention OK, as we say here in the states, "Don't Judge Me!" lol, (it's a humour quote, i don't know what from though)
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Too much music :(
"Pop doesn't mean much to me. My concern is that if the majority likes it, something must be good about it eh? "
LOL, banish that notion from your head and you'll both learn a lot about genuine quality and save yourself years of unnecessary anguish.
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: Too much music :(
Fiddlelearner, discover this if you haven't already http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlIU-2N7WY4&feature=related
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by Theirlandais
Re: Too much music :(
By the way, The Beatles were voted #1.
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Too much music :(
Oh wait, *maybe it should have been retitled "Most Popular Musicians from the *50's to the 90's" (needed to make an error correction)
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Too much music :(
Jerone, you probably didn't hear Richard Thompson's name in that list - or maybe you did, he's getting some respect now - but he made a similar comment when he was asked to compile a list of the "best pop songs of the milennium". I think he said "it was obvious they meant the milennium that ran from 1950 to 1990". He ended up doing an occasional tour, under the heading "1000 years of popular music". You can probably find some clips on BoobTube if you look. It's sort of fun.
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Too much music :(
Richard Thompson, now there is a name that belongs at the head of many lists. My personal favorites of his compositions are Dimming of the Day and Waltzing's for Dreamers, but there are many more.
Well worth your time, Jerone!
(And you have a wonderful dilemma, too much music for you to possibly hear and enjoy--I prescribe a lifetime of listening, it will make you feel much better!)
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: Too much music :(
Yeah, there's too much good music out there to listen to it all. There are good reasons to stick to a certain genre or two, but it's also good to get into other types of music. There's really no such thing as a bad genre of music, there's good music to be found in any form.
It sounds like you're looking to get into pop music that you aren't familiar with. Pop music gets beat up a lot but there's nothing wrong with it. On a lighter note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51AVPYypec4
Pop music is really just fairly traditional ballads with various instrumentation. Personally, I think that the most interesting and innovative pop music has come out of synth pop, the best bands being Depeche Mode and Ladytron.
But to each his own. There's a lot of good pop music out there, but a lot of the commercial stuff is terrible.
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by Marklar
Too much music
I don't imagine Professor Longhair is on the list, is he?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CmtUCB_hDg
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by Batgirl has left the GPL ;)
Re: Too much music :(
Oh course you realize, this means war. YouTube war, that is.
You want pop music? Take that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1anwxo7H2I
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Too much music :(
Some of the best stuff comes from underground:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q25Zx6B5HJA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q25Zx6B5HJA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wobu_4uASfE
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by Marklar
Re: Too much music :(
Oops, the second link was supposed to be:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlLWFa1b1Bc
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by Marklar
Re: Too much music :(
if the millennium ran from1950-1990, then this is prehistoric pop:
http://youtu.be/aq1XnS18O6g
from the early Needleithic Period
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by pipewatcher
Too much YouTube
or this upload ...
Paul Whiteman - My Blue Heaven (1927)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFurKUxafRk
# Posted on July 24th 2011 by Batgirl has left the GPL ;)
Re: Too much music :(
The Beatles !! Makes me proud to be a scouser
I listen tto so many different genres but I always come back to Irish traditional. I don't think it's necessarily very healthy to only listen to one type of music. In fact I don't really understand how someone could do that without going a bit stir crazy.
And I love it when a friend sends me a link to someone I've not heard before it's like getting a birthday or christmas present.
# Posted on July 25th 2011 by flossie
Re: Too much music :(
Needleithic. I like that!
# Posted on July 25th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: Too much music :(
how you become an artist at what you choose to do is not only about technique or knowing the great players and works in your metier....it's about your exposre and reaction to all kinds of stuff that's been expressed by those who have something worthy to say about what it is to be alive in this universe. there is no "high" or low" culture or art---it's just good and bad. and the more of the "good" stuff you interact with, the better it will be for you as a musician, because a musician is just a human being using that metier to take part in that universal conversation. there's no more or less "protein" and no more or less "pap" in rock, blues, bluegrass, jazz, etc, than there is in so-called "classical" music or irish traditional music. there's no need to be programmatic about it and make a chore out of it. open yourself to what calls to you, seek out the very best of it, and take it in, disagree with it, argue with it, admire it, morph it into your dna or not as you choose. sooner or later, you'll develop a nose for what's good and what's dross if you have even a smidge of the empathy and imagination it takes to be an expressive musician.....coltrane's "a love supreme," van morrison's "astral weeks," everything ever recorded by dock boggs or billie holliday.....joyce's "ulysses," dylan's "blood on the tracks," beethoven's ninth (there's a reason it's an overplayed chestnut), the photographs of josef koudelka or manuel alvarez bravo or edward weston........the best of the best is there for you to make use of as you become a contributor to the conversation. the way it happened for me and has happened for a lot of fellow travellers is, you fall really hard for an initial genre that grabs you and won't let you go. it cracks you open so you can hear great voices anywhere.....and after a while, those genre boundaries just dissolve, in terms of being able to see signposts on your road. you still have your chosen metier, but the signposts come from everywhere.....
# Posted on July 25th 2011 by ceemonster
Re: Too much music :(
Josephine Marsh has said that JJ Cale is an influence on her playing! Take it all in, right?
# Posted on July 25th 2011 by prestonian
Re: Too much music :(
I have to agree with Mr Levine; it's the only road to sanity. At
least for those living in the USA. Whenever I go back for a visit,
spending most of my time in Chicago, I find the diversity
overwhelming compared to Australia. I just have to ignore a
lot of music - life is short - there's too little time.
# Posted on July 25th 2011 by Hup
Re: Too much music :(
Take it all in, as it comes, but don't go out looking for it. There's plenty out there, and it'll come, but if you make a schedule of discovery you'll never have time to notice what you don't already know about.
If you like the Beatles, listen to what they do, listen to the people they listened to, and listen to the people who listened to them. When you find something you like, repeat.
Just don't make a list of stuff you have to listen to, and listen to it just to check it off the list. Nothing's more boring than listening to stuff because you're supposed to, and great music should never be boring.
# Posted on July 25th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Too much music :(
ceemonster, what a great riff. Thanks for that.
# Posted on July 25th 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: Too much music :(
My approach is similar to Jon's. I don't go out hunting for music, listen to whatever comes in my way and if I like it, listen to it again. Currently it is ITM and I think it will be like this for a long time, if not forever. Though occasionally I turn back to stuff such as Meshuggah, et. al. as well!
# Posted on July 25th 2011 by tradguy
Re: Too much music :(
It's one of the problems with the digital revolution in society.
Copious amounts of data, Copious amounts of music, Copious amounts of a images, Copious amounts of "entertainment" (excuses for people to sit in front of a tube, avoid constructive thought, avoid productive activity, and absorb calories). If you like i will write 1500 page tome on the decline of Society as we know it and bemona the fact that there will be no original music, literature or science available in 150 years. (I will probably be off on a golf course some where digging out of sand traps)
Hidden amongst that haystack of Copious amount of digital everything are kernals of beautiful things...buried.
You have to find what 'floats you boat'....and keep in mind that there is just so much time in the day and you accomplish nothing spreading yourself too thin.
The other alternative is sitting in front of a tube watching Tom Cruse DVDs, avoiding any semblence of productivity and abosorbing huge amounts of unnecessary calories.
Clearly an individual choice.
# Posted on July 25th 2011 by zippydw
Re: Too much music :(
bemoan the fact
# Posted on July 25th 2011 by zippydw
Re: Too much music :(
"spreading yourself too thin"? Like homeopathy?
# Posted on July 25th 2011 by ...
Re: Too much music :(
more like grape jam...or maybe the stuff between the bread sold as sandwiches at airports.
did I mention Copious amounts of terrible food.
Society is just going town the....how does one spell 'Loo"? ('Lew", lieu"?) Even though someday I suppose that will be done digitally also.
# Posted on July 25th 2011 by zippydw
Re: Too much music :(
I am enjoying the irony of people on the internet complaining about information technology ruining the world.
I had another good wave if irony this morning ...
I was packing my wee boy's bag for nursery, sandwich, yoghurt, apple juice, sun hat, stegosaurus etc. It's a Dr Who Tardis bag, a little rucksack in the shape of the Tardis, and I was wingeing to myself about how it just wasn't big enough inside ... duh.
# Posted on July 25th 2011 by ...
Re: Too much music :(
Too bad you can't put some of that stuff in Hammerspace.
(http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Hammerspace)
(There's a company in the states that markets a "bag of holding" but it turns out it's just a big satchel, which is not the same thing at all - very disappointing)
# Posted on July 25th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Too much music :(
No irony.
Nothing wrong with the technology itself. It's a matter of whether there is value to what it is good for.
Unfortunatly the illiterate masses use their ipods to schedule around episodes of the Bachlorette, whilst establishing a schedule to arrange their lives around future truth be told segments.
And then there is Rap and Hip Hop. A special place in hell for those.
At my age, I remember when the first Dr. Who was a wee boy....
# Posted on July 25th 2011 by zippydw
Re: Too much music :(
Jerone - you have nothing to worry about. You're a young man with an insatiable appetite for music irrespective of genre. Good music will find you.
I personally feel most sorry for those folks whose embrace of music is purely to fulfill some personal sense of a social uniform or identity. If the musical style doesn't fit into their worldview it is never sampled and even disparaged as being music from "those other, inferior groups of people." Sad to cut yourself off from the viewpoints of the rest of humanity that way.
# Posted on July 25th 2011 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Too much music :(
"There are only two kinds of music - good and bad"
That statement has been variously attributed to Richard Strauss, Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis and probably numerous other musical figures.
# Posted on July 25th 2011 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Too much music :(
"I personally feel most sorry for those folks whose embrace of music is purely to fulfill some personal sense of a social uniform or identity. If the musical style doesn't fit into their worldview it is never sampled... Sad to cut yourself off from the viewpoints of the rest of humanity that way."
You mean, like the old guys: Robert Johnson, John Lee Hooker, Mississippi John Hurt, Willie Clancy, Seamus Ennis, Junior Crehan, et. al.... ?
# Posted on July 25th 2011 by David Levine
Re: Too much music :(
David - I have no idea where you're going with your list of legends above. I am speaking of anybody who refuses to listen to another style of music because of preconceived social prejudices. I can remember several heated threads here a few years ago where some Clare musicians where upset at the use of the term "diddly music" because they where of the opinion it originated in the minds of those who wished to disparage the Irish and their music. I know many folks who simply will not listen to American Country, Rap, Jazz, Punk, Funk, etc, etc simply because they have a preconceived negative notion about the people who listen and perform it. I'm saying there is good music out there regardless of style - I don't care if it's a Bollywood Musical or German Beer Polka. There is a world of interesting music out there for those who can see past the stereotypes. I feel bad for those who can't.
# Posted on July 25th 2011 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Too much music :(
Hey Jusa, i saw a Bollywood musical for the first time a couple months ago. It was "Lagaan"(i think thats how yoi spell it) I can't say that i was less than amazed. The music and dancing was Fascinating. I don't like many musicals(the irony about me) but that one was amazing.
# Posted on July 25th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Too much music :(
David - I don't know if you're familiar with Robert Johnson's life, but by the accounts that I've read he actually supported himself some of the time by busking on trains, and a large part of his skill there was a tremendous repertoire. He was apparently familiar with all of the music around him at the time, and not just the handful of songs in the one style he recorded.
John Hurt, of course, was very familiar with many styles of music as well, and I believe he had songs from the Appalachian Scots tradition in his bag. Looking at his discography, I can see obviously a number of creole songs and songs from the mountains, as well as songs like "The Spanish Merchant's Daughter" which I'm not familiar with but suggest a possible Continental or even an Insular origin.
I'm not as familiar with the history of Willie Clancy and the other gentlemen you mention, but on those two, I think you'll find that you've been under a misapprehension.
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Too much music :(
Jerone - Bollywood is great fun. If you want to see more, two of my favorites are the old classic called Sholay (think spaghetti western, but Bollywood - it's awesome!) and the 2002 version of Devdas with Sharukh Khan and Madhuri Dixit. Not only does that one have some great performances, but it's gorgeous to look at as well - try to see it on a good screen for the best effect.
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Too much music :(
Well said Jusa, on all counts.
One thing to keep in mind is that you can't really appreciate a form of music until you are familiar enough with it to truly understand what sort of musical effect it goes for, and therefore how to judge the good from the bad.
Take trad, for example. To an outsider, it may sound like simplistic diddley-dee music where every tune sounds the same. It sounds a lot different to insiders.
All genres of music are like this. You can fairly say that you don't like a certain type of music, but you can't fairly say that it's bad type of music unless you spend the time to get inside it and understand it, in which case you're likely to find that there's a bit you like about it after all.
But life is short and it takes time to grow your ears to appreciate a new form of music, so it's best to focus on a few favorites. But beware of dismissing genres that you're unfamiliar with as "bad music." If you do that, you make the same mistake as those who disparage trad while being ignorant of it.
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by Marklar
Re: Too much music :(
Not too much music. Too little time.
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by cboody
Re: Too much music :(
"Not too much music. Too little time." I was feelin' it at first, but i changed my mind. There really is too much music. Too much heartless, souless, mindless music. Music that is not about art, or expression. Music that is beaten and abused for money.
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Too much music :(
Would you like to provide some examples ? Just curious.
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by Kenny
Re: Too much music :(
Well, first of all, most(if not all) of underground rap music. I've worked with some of these poets, and a lot of them would come at me wanting a beat. A lot of them don't take the music seriously at all. Many try to use it to become "rich and famous" ignorant that this way isn't even the right way to do it. Too many popular rappers and a lot of them don't make a lot of money. Their poetry is lacking substance. All they talk about is how awesome they are, how much money they already have, how much better they are than everyone else. Their poetry is lame so they try to use music to push it forward.
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Too much music :(
Lots of musicians -- especially traditional musicians -- only stay within their genre and have little interest in other forms of music. They don't refuse to listen to other kinds of music. They simply are satisfied and moved by what they know and have played all their lives. They have no desire to move outside.
I don't know how much Robert Johnson listened to other kinds of music. All I know is what I hear him play. The same with John Hurt. It seems beside the point to find fault with people who are only interested in one kind of music and don't seek out other forms of music. There's nothing wrong with being satisfied with -- and finding joy in -- the tradition you grew up in, without reference to other traditions.
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by David Levine
Re: Too much music :(
Another example would be a lot of pop music. Yea, you get some good bands, singers, and other musicians that care about the music, meaningful poetry to accompany it, and want to do something good with it. Then you have those that exploit the music. Using catchy rhythms, chord progressions, and melodies to make it popular really fast. I've done my share of shallow composing, but it was so uninspired, i couldn't do anything with it.
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Too much music :(
"One thing to keep in mind is that you can't really appreciate a form of music until you are familiar enough with it to truly understand what sort of musical effect it goes for, and therefore how to judge the good from the bad. Take trad, for example. To an outsider, it may sound like simplistic diddley-dee music where every tune sounds the same. It sounds a lot different to insiders."
While this is true, I think it's also important to try to lift yourself out of your comfort zone and familiarity with diddley music. The sad truth is that the vast majority of the diddley music played does indeed all sound the same. If you try to approach each tune with fresh ears, pretend it's the first time you've heard or played it, you stand a greater chance of injecting more invention, and hence it shouldn't all sound the same.
It does annoy me when diddlers are confronted with that old chestnut "it all sounds the same" and they just shrug it of and merely claim that it cam from an "outsider" (what a stupid term). What you should be doing is thinking about that last set you played and asking your self, perhaps he's right there.
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by ...
Re: Too much music :(
Well, having heard bands, soloist, duets, and crazy instrument combinations(wish i could find more concertina/harp duets) my ears are really open to this music and it all doesn't sound the same anymore. But looks at this. A lot of the music does sound the same, but it's not just ITM, and it's especially ANY instrumental style of music. This is why. All raps and hip-hops use simple repetitive rhythms. All Electronicas use the same 4/4 rhythm(not rhythms). Cultural styles use the same instrumentation, as well as melodic and chordal patterns in all their tunes/songs. So basically, if all the rhythms sound a like, all the instruments(sounds) are the same, and the genre identifies with certain melodic and chordal patterns, everything in the genre will sound the same. In ITM, reels and jigs being most common, and a handful of instruments respective of the genre, it's natural that it all sounds the same. The fact that most of it is instrumentl, reinforces this.
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Too much music :(
I agree.
I think the tyranny of 4 in the musics of the world is certainly something worth fighting against
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by ...
Re: Too much music :(
The "tyranny of 4" meaning the extensive use of the 4/4 time signature? Well, it's dealed a worse blow in ITM because there's little rhythmic variation. It's a tragedy in the Electronicas because in really EVERY song, they use the same kick, hi-hat, kick hi-hat, pattern.
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Too much music :(
The reason that electronic dance music uses a 4/4 beat is because it's easy to dance to. You don't need to learn a special dance to dance to a 4/4 beat, a couple of drinks will do. If you're making music for a club dance floor, 4/4 is a practical necessity.
All dance music is repetitive by nature, whether it's in a club or a session. It all sounds the same if you aren't familiar enough with it to listen to what isn't the same. Saying that all electronic music uses the same beat (really not true) or that using 4/4 is unimaginative and should be avoided, shows exactly the sort of outsider's ignorance of a genre that I was talking about.
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by Marklar
Re: Too much music :(
Jerone, if you think there is little rhythmic variation in reels, there's still a heck of a lot you are not hearing. But this is in the music played well of course, As I said earlier, when played badly there certainly is no rhythmic variation. It's the rhythmic variation that sets the good from the bad.
"All dance music is repetitive by nature". This couldn't be further from the truth. But, "If you're making music for a club dance floor, 4/4 is a practical necessity."?? Only because you are making music for a bunch of indoctrinated unimaginative yobs.
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by ...
Re: Too much music :(
Nothing further from the truth, eh, Mr. Gill? What does AABB mean to you?
Sometimes your air of smug superiority is pretty comical, you really have to stretch and distort and ignore the obvious to make it work.
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by Marklar
Re: Too much music :(
Do you think AABB constitutes anything even close to "All dance music'?
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by ...
Re: Too much music :(
AABB is an example specific to trad. All dance music has repetitive elements, else it wouldn't be danceable.
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by Marklar
Re: Too much music :(
David - you're a great flute player (you must come back to Phoenix sometime) but you've read far too much into what I said. I agree, there is nothing wrong with being content within the musical culture you've known and played all your life as illustrated in your list of legends. I am simply saying I think that those who eschew other styles because of reasons other than the music itself are missing out on a lot of potentially great music. Hell, I'm guilty of the very thing I am proselytizing about. I have trouble appreciating bands like The Cure / Depeche Mode / Morrissey, etc because I have a prejudice against mopey, foppish, fag-puffing Londoners. There, I admitted it. Guilty as charged Mu' Lawd.
Now Jerone may have grown up in Texas, but he's not limiting himself to Barbecue. I salute the fact that he wants to sample from the vast musical buffet that exists out there. I think that is commendable. I have no doubt he will find lots of things he likes, yet will still return to his favorite musical dishes as we all do eventually.
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Too much music :(
Haha, I got a laugh out of that Jusa, because I like that kind of music but I'm turned off by some of the same things you are.
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by Marklar
Re: Too much music :(
Well Marklar, it shows you're more matured musically than I. You're able to see past the pretentious gloom and misery in order to appreciate the music for the music's sake. Sigh - I'm still a work in progress. When it comes to Londoner's I'll take Lemme or Joe Strummer over Robbie Smith any day.
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Too much music :(
Thorney, thanks.
Of course, we agree more than we disagree. But the trick to the ITM is total immersion. You can't kid around with it and get it right. That's the difference between playing an Irish tune and playing ITM. The nyah and all that.
I don't think it will make you a better player of ITM to listen to jazz, for instance, or Mozart or pop. For jazz or Mozart to inform your playing I think you have to be a pretty good player of ITM already. Classical technique on the fiddle is great (Wanda Law and Zoe Conway) but it can be neither the one thing or the other that comes out clearly without that immersion, that tunnel vision, at some point in your development as a player of ITM.
James Galway is a great interpreter of Mozart but I'm not moved by his Sligo Maid. Or by his whistle playing. OTH, you oughta hear Mississippi John Hurt sing Beethoven's Fifth on an old record by Pat Sky, another legend -- who started out playing guitar and banjo and who is now a highly accomplished player and maker of uillean pipes. Or Aaron Olwell, an accomplished player of fiddle, concertina, and flute, and who plays ITM and old time with equal conviction and expertise. But people like that are pretty rare.
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by David Levine
Re: Too much music :(
David - Agreed, total immersion is the key when learning a style. I'm only speaking in regards to what consitutes "good and bad" music in the ears of the listener and the psychological road blocks people unconsciously put up.
I heard one a few weeks ago - "Pecker Dunne? That's "traveler" music - I won't listen to that..."
# Posted on July 26th 2011 by Jusa Nutter Eejit