dropped d is definetely the easiest and the versatile in my opinion for accompaniment, whereas dadgad is more minimalistic and will leave you having to move the capo even for common keys such as A.
I use drop D - these days, I use it for everything, not just trad.
I've heard excellent playing in DADGAD, in all keys, from guitarists like Nancy Conescu, but it takes a certain dedication to get to that. If you're just looking to get out of standard, you might as well drop to low D first.
Dropped D is obviously the closest to standard tuning. One of the handy things about the other tunings named though, including standard tuning, is that the bass and treble strings are tuned the same. This is quite handy.
Personally I play in DADGAD, largely because that is the tuning I first learnt to accompany in. Frankly there is no need to use the capo a lot if you don't want to. It is easy to play in A without using the capo. Sure, it takes a little bit of dedication to learn how to play properly, as it would in standard tuning too but, if you are not prepared to be dedicated to it then don't bother starting.
well there's also DADF#AE and a very comprehensive book about it by Stevie the Gray. I tell you what learn them all...and learn DGDGBD as well. You'll feckin baffle 'em...I certainly am...
"One of the handy things about the other tunings named though, including standard tuning, is that the bass and treble strings are tuned the same. This is quite handy."
Is it? How?
(seriously, I really don't see how this is a notable advantage, please explain)
Why do you want to switch over? Do you feel there are limitations with what you're doing in standard tuning? Have you maybe run out of ideas in standard? In a rut?
jon kiparsky recomended nancy conescu ,but even she uses a capo on that key of A( http://youtu.be/hD7sEvu_IBI ) . she does have a nice style but can sound boring with this pointless use of the capo.
I know a guitar player who gave me a few lessons and doesnt even use a capo for bflat!!!. he uses some standard tuning but hes quite a dedicated player.DADGAD has its place with pierre bensusan and tony mcmanus ,it can be great for finger picking but drop D i reckon is much better for backing.
Experiment and find what works best for you. Personally I play exclusively in DADGAD as it suits the songs I sing and I'm comfortable with it. I've heard many musicians abroad refer to it as "Irish tuning" which seems a bit bizarre. I can only echo the comments re capos...Some guitarists hear the opening bars of The Man Of Aran/ Earl's Chair etc. and they whack it on the 9th fret automatically. With the fundamentals of music theory you should be finding your own voices and shapes in the common keys.Good luck.
@Jon - Not sure really. I just find it balances better. I suppose it means you can switch between the bass and treble strings more easily. It allows you to play chords fretting just the middle strings and allowing the 1st and 6th strings to ring out. In reality though it is probably just because it is what I am used to.
I have said it in the past but it doesn't matter what tuning you use as long as it works for you. There are some brilliant players in standard tuning. If, as Bob suggests, you feel you are getting in a rut then by all means retune it. It may give you some ideas you can apply back to standard tuning.
As far as using the capo in DADGAD is concerned it can be nice for variety but it is not essential and if you use it all the time it can begin to sound "samey". Whatever tuning you pick try to play in as many keys as possible without the capo. Then when you use it it is through choice and not necessity.
I’ve mentioned here before that some of the kinds of voicings that give DADGAD its distinctive sound are available in standard and dropD tuning. You just have to get away from the standard closed chord forms and explore the neck. Partial chords against open strings can sound great in several common keys. E minor and A major are parcitularly rich in standard tuning.
I play in standard and have always been complimented on my accompaniment. It's also the easiest tuning of those available on guitar for playing melody. So I imagine dropping the low E to D is the least intrusive if you wanted to be able to throw a few melody lines in
I would give dropped D a whirl.
When playing in D, a standard tuned guitarist tends to damp the bottom string, which takes a lot of power out of the home chord for the key. Dropped D puts a real punch into those D chords. And playing the E chords is relatively easy, you just need to get a finger on that second fret. The problem with dropped D is when you want to play that low G, which in standard tuning is a breeze, but in dropped D requires a whole different approach.
And one advantage of dropped D is that you can go back and forth between it and standard tuning relatively easy. I know many people who use both, and go back and forth depending on what tune is being played.
I have been using DADGAE a bit lately, if you skip the g-string your highest three strings are tuned to 5ths (DAE) which makes playing tunes a breeze for fiddlers/tenor banjonistas & mandoliners alike - but you can also throw DADGAD styled chords in easily. At any rate, it doesn't really matter what tuning your in, as long as you use the right chords, voicings, know when to avoid the 3rd & throw in a 7th or a substitution tastefully. Also, overusing big 6 string chords in any tuning is can be icky (In standard it sounds like C&W & in DADGAD it's too wishy washy - occasional big chords DO have their place at the end of phrases & beginning of tunes but generally less is more.
Apart from when I play slide six string devil*, I detest all those altered tunings. When backers do DADGAD it always sounds random to me. All unresolved suspensions and pointless chordal noodling; no real root based changes; all a bit frightful like Joni Mitchell with a delirious headcold. Especially when they get carried away with the Bo Diddley groove or 1970’s hippy strummy funky Ritchie Havens syncopated nonsense! And far too heavy on the bass end of the spectrum for backing the Trad Irish (even if your low note is D!).
And I think ‘experimental tunings’ (BAGDAD anyone?!) are a bit like the Emperor’s new clothes. Treading the thin line between arty experimental and out & out cobblers and bullshiit; you have to be brave or naïve & honest to say it sounds crap Chaps thrash away producing some very ‘modern’ harmonies (e.g. stacks of fourths) not really knowing or able to describe what they are doing. At least with std tuning you know you are playing a G chord, an E/B dyad, an Aminor chord, Ebm7b5 or wotteffah. In other tunings you’re often playing random shight but with a strong D drone element making it nearly OK if not a little bit like an ITM version of late 1960’s Miles Davis freeform rock jazz (Bitches’ Brew/ Marhavishnu) type stuff.
Stick to ‘standard’.
Better still; get a baritone ukulele (GDBE).
The advantages are legion:
1. Like std six string devil tuning but without the horrid low muddy bass of the E & A strings.
2. Nylon/ gut/ synthetic gut strings- no nasty metallic strumming stuff. No plectra to lose.
3. Quiet & polite especially in the smaller (say, 5 or 6 melody instruments) setting.
4. Sometimes harp-like, sometimes like box basses, sometimes six string devil strummy-like, sometimes even banjo-ish and even piano-y (really!).
5. Small and light to carry around.
6. Has D at the bottom but not too low.
7. You can get quite a good one for £100 or a lot less!
8. No temptation to use ‘other tunings’.
* For slide/ bottleneck I tune the old Gibson or Tele DGDGBD (the good old G tuning better in my opinion than the dreaded EBEG#BE so loved by BLooZ botherers and Elmore James pesterers).
What on Earth would be the point of changing to an alt tuning. One would just have to work out all the fingerings again. Unless of course one is one of the innumerable players who just ignorantly flail away until something nearly sounding OK randomly emerges..
out of interest yhallhouse who do you consider to be a good guitarist.?Apart from dennis cahill i cant say i know many standard tuned guitarists that deserve a mention.
Derek Bailey, Eric Faulkner, , Rick Wakeman, Dolly Parton, Derek Bell, Reginald Bosanquet, Pope Pius III, Val Doonican, Joseph of Aramathea, Little Walter, Danny McKay, General Idi Amin, Galileo, Ringo Starr, Ernest Bevin, Pixie Lott, Sararswatti, Pooh Bear, Stéphane Grappelli. David Beckham…the list goes on and on.
"I’ve mentioned here before that some of the kinds of voicings that give DADGAD its distinctive sound are available in standard and dropD tuning. You just have to get away from the standard closed chord forms and explore the neck. Partial chords against open strings can sound great in several common keys. E minor and A major are parcitularly rich in standard tuning." Bob himself
Gone yersel, Bob yourself. Your talking my language there. This is where you nail it:
"Partial chords against open strings can sound great in several common keys"
I stuck with standard simply because of the quality of that old root A chord X02220. In the scottish trad thing there simply isn't a more satisfactory resolution chord, crisp balanced and sounds just right. For the rest you've just got to check it out and mix it up...... Different strokes for different folks though.......
I play in DADGAD because i like the sound of the chords with the open strings and because the first tunes in fingerstyle that i have learned were arranged for DADGAD, and even because many trad. band's guitarists used to play in this tuning so i started to learn it. Of course You need to practice a lot to feel comfortable with if u are used to play in standard, I have never tried double dropped d, I have tried dropped d but I feel so close to dadgad that i hardly change. DADGAD is a bit harder if u want to play the tunes on guitar by flatpicking and i could suggest better the dropped d. I have a book by Paul de Grae who EXplain his tuning DADEAE called irish tuning by him.
It doesn't matter what tuning you decide to use
It's just that aggravating GA - the only way I can make it work is to skip a string - it starts to get complicated.
I agree, though that when it works it can be pretty cool, but to me it's just not a very generally useful tuning for either chords or flatpicking.
Your mileage, of course, may vary.
Well I don't flatpick much although I would like to do more. For me the limitation would be the treble string being tuned down to the D. It would mean you would have to work a lot harder to get up to the high notes, something I am not particularly good at.
The GA thing can be limiting at first but if you get a handle on it then it can be quite useful in giving you more than one place to play any one note. When I have tried flatpicking I have ended up playing the A or B note in 2 different places in the same tune depending on what comes before and after and what sort of ornament I am wanting to play.
I am not sure why it would be considered to be a weak tuning for chords though. Maybe it is just because it is what I am used to but I find it very flexible for chords and voicings.
As I say, your mileage may vary. I find it's less limiting than a fully open tuning, but still far too restrictive. Most DADGAD playing, ends up sounding more or less the same to me, and when I go into DADGAD I start to hear the same sameness, so I stay away from it.
Whatever - it's not a bodhran, so that's one thing in its favor!
I mean this is an issue that there will be a lot of very personal opinions and defensive comments made. Most trad guitarists at sessions like to be able to say they play in DADGAD, for one thing it buys the other musicians' respect that they really know their way around a guitar but also, it is no longer a common instrument that the majority of people in the audience can play and may start asking to while drunk - a risky scenario if you have a nice guitar.
I, on the other hand, get a lot of praise from musicians that seem rather surprised that what I am doing looks quite straightforward but sounds ok. Some musicians wonder if I have my capo handy thinking that I'll need it extensively, some wonder if I have a dropped D string etc, I think practice and memory are as useful as the best sounding guitar, the finest technical ability (e.g. strumming triplets, inserting substitute chords), or the smoothest moving capo. I have also met numerous guitarists who can accompany an individual tune so much nicer than I would but spend several bars deciding where to put their capo or what chord change to make and I personally would have constant guitar playing through sets of tunes, approximately possible even when playing with strangers if you ear does its job.
In short, Arty McGlynn, Paul Brady, John Doyle etc would be some of the best accompanying guitar players regardless what tuning they play in. Personally, I don't like some of John Doyle's substitutions and alternate jazzy chords and I think the accompaniment on Molloy Brady and Peoples or Molloy Carty and McGlynn is, by in large, how it should be done.
1) If you play in DADGAD, the drunk punters don't come up wanting to play your guitar
2) He plays in standard and people like it. He doesn't use a capo and he doesn't like it when there's a break in the guitar to change the capo position
3) He doesn't like John Doyle that much (agreed) and prefers the work of Paul Brady on the album with Molloy and Peoples, or McGlynn's work with Molloy and Carty.
I read it once and its perfectly clear .. but then I play trad and guitar. I like the backing from the piano on Jimmy Powers recordings , the banjo backing on Paddy Cartys CD , Reg Hall backing Martin Byrnes, the piano backing on Dick Gaughan; buttons and brass.
Isnt it funny how guitarists want to bring in all sorts of fancy shtuff from other genres ........
I drop the D to play the tunes but 'back' in standard and I use a partial capo for playing the tunes but not for backing.
Thanks for clarifying, Jon, I also had a little trouble drawing some of the points out of what Paudy was saying, for example, the fact that he plays in standard tuning was never really stated, only implied.
Coppers and brass. thats the one Cheers No cause I always make that mistake... An all time favourite and inspiration to play the tunes on guitar.. The Man.
As regards standard, Paudy said at another thread that he backed in standard tuning and Id already taken note of that fact But its good of youse to clarify for those of us not paying attention and newcomers.
your making work for yourself playing tunes in dadgad.i dont think you could get the fluidity in this tune like i did here. http://youtu.be/pfGEYwW-seA
Nice melody playing! No you are right, I probably couldn't get that fluidity if I played that tune on guitar (or not without some practice anyway) but I am not much of a melody player. I don't think DADGAD would be a weakness for the tune.
Incidentally whether you were in standard or dropped-D tuning wouldn't have made any difference as you didn't play the bass strings in that video at all.
thanks.But i meant dadgad , not u as a guitarist.il experiment to see if i can do it on dadgad but i doubt it.
I also can play a version of the black rogue in the lower register but i need to low d to do that so sometimes it can make a difference when in standard or drop d
There are other versions of the tune on Youtube being fingerpicked that look like they are in DADGAD although I am not sure I liked the style much in the videos I saw.
you cant really look past pierre or tony macmanus for that matter.I dont think either are flatpickers though or accompanists(well they accompany themselves well)
It is true that he tends to fingerpick rather than flatpick but I do not see the relevance of that to what tuning he uses.
(Incidentally he uses many tunings - which was one of the reasons I didn't mention him already as a DADGAD guitarist. He even uses standard occasionally).
Before heading off to work this morning I dropped my guitar into DADGAD to have a try at Hardiman. Works pretty well, actually, the usual problems of tune playing in DADGAD don't show up as much on this tune, and the open A and D on top give you some advantages. Anyone playing DADGAD should really consider learning this one, if only as a party piece.
Try letting the low D ring under it - either catching the low strings on the down beat of a bar and leaving them ringing, or with a compound-picking approach (a la Richard Thompson).
(of course, it's a great tune for standard or drop-D picking as well - just a great tune all around, really)
droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Which one is most useful for trad backer guitar if a standard tuning person is looking to switch over?
Thanks
# Posted on July 20th 2011 by zippydw
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
dropped d is definetely the easiest and the versatile in my opinion for accompaniment, whereas dadgad is more minimalistic and will leave you having to move the capo even for common keys such as A.
# Posted on July 20th 2011 by banjitar
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
I use drop D - these days, I use it for everything, not just trad.
I've heard excellent playing in DADGAD, in all keys, from guitarists like Nancy Conescu, but it takes a certain dedication to get to that. If you're just looking to get out of standard, you might as well drop to low D first.
# Posted on July 20th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Dropped D is obviously the closest to standard tuning. One of the handy things about the other tunings named though, including standard tuning, is that the bass and treble strings are tuned the same. This is quite handy.
Personally I play in DADGAD, largely because that is the tuning I first learnt to accompany in. Frankly there is no need to use the capo a lot if you don't want to. It is easy to play in A without using the capo. Sure, it takes a little bit of dedication to learn how to play properly, as it would in standard tuning too but, if you are not prepared to be dedicated to it then don't bother starting.
# Posted on July 20th 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
well there's also DADF#AE and a very comprehensive book about it by Stevie the Gray. I tell you what learn them all...and learn DGDGBD as well. You'll feckin baffle 'em...I certainly am...
# Posted on July 20th 2011 by mickyfong
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
"One of the handy things about the other tunings named though, including standard tuning, is that the bass and treble strings are tuned the same. This is quite handy."
Is it? How?
(seriously, I really don't see how this is a notable advantage, please explain)
# Posted on July 20th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Why do you want to switch over? Do you feel there are limitations with what you're doing in standard tuning? Have you maybe run out of ideas in standard? In a rut?
# Posted on July 20th 2011 by Bob himself
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
jon kiparsky recomended nancy conescu ,but even she uses a capo on that key of A( http://youtu.be/hD7sEvu_IBI ) . she does have a nice style but can sound boring with this pointless use of the capo.
I know a guitar player who gave me a few lessons and doesnt even use a capo for bflat!!!. he uses some standard tuning but hes quite a dedicated player.DADGAD has its place with pierre bensusan and tony mcmanus ,it can be great for finger picking but drop D i reckon is much better for backing.
# Posted on July 20th 2011 by banjitar
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Experiment and find what works best for you. Personally I play exclusively in DADGAD as it suits the songs I sing and I'm comfortable with it. I've heard many musicians abroad refer to it as "Irish tuning" which seems a bit bizarre. I can only echo the comments re capos...Some guitarists hear the opening bars of The Man Of Aran/ Earl's Chair etc. and they whack it on the 9th fret automatically. With the fundamentals of music theory you should be finding your own voices and shapes in the common keys.Good luck.
# Posted on July 20th 2011 by laguacamaya
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Really nice whistle playing in that video.
@Jon - Not sure really. I just find it balances better. I suppose it means you can switch between the bass and treble strings more easily. It allows you to play chords fretting just the middle strings and allowing the 1st and 6th strings to ring out. In reality though it is probably just because it is what I am used to.
I have said it in the past but it doesn't matter what tuning you use as long as it works for you. There are some brilliant players in standard tuning. If, as Bob suggests, you feel you are getting in a rut then by all means retune it. It may give you some ideas you can apply back to standard tuning.
As far as using the capo in DADGAD is concerned it can be nice for variety but it is not essential and if you use it all the time it can begin to sound "samey". Whatever tuning you pick try to play in as many keys as possible without the capo. Then when you use it it is through choice and not necessity.
# Posted on July 20th 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
I’ve mentioned here before that some of the kinds of voicings that give DADGAD its distinctive sound are available in standard and dropD tuning. You just have to get away from the standard closed chord forms and explore the neck. Partial chords against open strings can sound great in several common keys. E minor and A major are parcitularly rich in standard tuning.
# Posted on July 20th 2011 by Bob himself
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
i agree with bob himself
# Posted on July 20th 2011 by banjitar
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
I play in standard and have always been complimented on my accompaniment. It's also the easiest tuning of those available on guitar for playing melody. So I imagine dropping the low E to D is the least intrusive if you wanted to be able to throw a few melody lines in
# Posted on July 20th 2011 by Paudy
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Dropped D is also excellent for fingerstyle tunes.
# Posted on July 21st 2011 by Bob himself
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
I would give dropped D a whirl.
When playing in D, a standard tuned guitarist tends to damp the bottom string, which takes a lot of power out of the home chord for the key. Dropped D puts a real punch into those D chords. And playing the E chords is relatively easy, you just need to get a finger on that second fret. The problem with dropped D is when you want to play that low G, which in standard tuning is a breeze, but in dropped D requires a whole different approach.
And one advantage of dropped D is that you can go back and forth between it and standard tuning relatively easy. I know many people who use both, and go back and forth depending on what tune is being played.
# Posted on July 21st 2011 by AlBrown
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
I have been using DADGAE a bit lately, if you skip the g-string your highest three strings are tuned to 5ths (DAE) which makes playing tunes a breeze for fiddlers/tenor banjonistas & mandoliners alike - but you can also throw DADGAD styled chords in easily. At any rate, it doesn't really matter what tuning your in, as long as you use the right chords, voicings, know when to avoid the 3rd & throw in a 7th or a substitution tastefully. Also, overusing big 6 string chords in any tuning is can be icky (In standard it sounds like C&W & in DADGAD it's too wishy washy - occasional big chords DO have their place at the end of phrases & beginning of tunes but generally less is more.
# Posted on July 21st 2011 by B Rad
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Interesting advice.
I was looking into a couple of the other tunings suggested (G in particular) but have to deal with the pianistas who like f, Eflat, d flat and b flat.
At my age, the one thing about DADGAD is the relearing of the hand positions sometime before I find out that the Maker is a die-hard bodhran player.
The dropped D is very attractive, since it mellows out the native D chord which always sounds twangy in standard tuning.
Thanks for all the advice. I have some homework to do now.
# Posted on July 21st 2011 by zippydw
Cynical curmudgeonly reply...
Apart from when I play slide six string devil*, I detest all those altered tunings. When backers do DADGAD it always sounds random to me. All unresolved suspensions and pointless chordal noodling; no real root based changes; all a bit frightful like Joni Mitchell with a delirious headcold. Especially when they get carried away with the Bo Diddley groove or 1970’s hippy strummy funky Ritchie Havens syncopated nonsense! And far too heavy on the bass end of the spectrum for backing the Trad Irish (even if your low note is D!).
And I think ‘experimental tunings’ (BAGDAD anyone?!) are a bit like the Emperor’s new clothes. Treading the thin line between arty experimental and out & out cobblers and bullshiit; you have to be brave or naïve & honest to say it sounds crap Chaps thrash away producing some very ‘modern’ harmonies (e.g. stacks of fourths) not really knowing or able to describe what they are doing. At least with std tuning you know you are playing a G chord, an E/B dyad, an Aminor chord, Ebm7b5 or wotteffah. In other tunings you’re often playing random shight but with a strong D drone element making it nearly OK if not a little bit like an ITM version of late 1960’s Miles Davis freeform rock jazz (Bitches’ Brew/ Marhavishnu) type stuff.
Stick to ‘standard’.
Better still; get a baritone ukulele (GDBE).
The advantages are legion:
1. Like std six string devil tuning but without the horrid low muddy bass of the E & A strings.
2. Nylon/ gut/ synthetic gut strings- no nasty metallic strumming stuff. No plectra to lose.
3. Quiet & polite especially in the smaller (say, 5 or 6 melody instruments) setting.
4. Sometimes harp-like, sometimes like box basses, sometimes six string devil strummy-like, sometimes even banjo-ish and even piano-y (really!).
5. Small and light to carry around.
6. Has D at the bottom but not too low.
7. You can get quite a good one for £100 or a lot less!
8. No temptation to use ‘other tunings’.
* For slide/ bottleneck I tune the old Gibson or Tele DGDGBD (the good old G tuning better in my opinion than the dreaded EBEG#BE so loved by BLooZ botherers and Elmore James pesterers).
# Posted on July 21st 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Baritone yoke is DGBE, innit? I think I shall henceforth taunt oppugnants with the challenge, "I double drop d DARE you"
# Posted on July 21st 2011 by fidkid
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
'Tis. But, saaaay, you could change it to DGAD. Whaddya think, yhaalhouse?
# Posted on July 21st 2011 by Bob himself
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
What on Earth would be the point of changing to an alt tuning. One would just have to work out all the fingerings again. Unless of course one is one of the innumerable players who just ignorantly flail away until something nearly sounding OK randomly emerges..
# Posted on July 22nd 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
out of interest yhallhouse who do you consider to be a good guitarist.?Apart from dennis cahill i cant say i know many standard tuned guitarists that deserve a mention.
# Posted on July 22nd 2011 by banjitar
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Ian Carr, Kris Drever, Anna Massie, Arty McGlynn.
How is that for starters?
# Posted on July 22nd 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Derek Bailey, Eric Faulkner, , Rick Wakeman, Dolly Parton, Derek Bell, Reginald Bosanquet, Pope Pius III, Val Doonican, Joseph of Aramathea, Little Walter, Danny McKay, General Idi Amin, Galileo, Ringo Starr, Ernest Bevin, Pixie Lott, Sararswatti, Pooh Bear, Stéphane Grappelli. David Beckham…the list goes on and on.
# Posted on July 22nd 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Other standard tuning players in Irish music:
Pat Egan, Matt Heaton. Micheal O Domhnaill used standard at times (some nice work on the VHS concert video he did with Kevin Burke back in the 80s).
# Posted on July 22nd 2011 by dr_funkenstein
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
standard tuning has to much high end sound and as wsa mentioned the low E and A always sounbd muddy.
# Posted on July 22nd 2011 by zippydw
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
I’m gonna have to disagree with you there, yaahl. Idi Amin couldn’t strum his way through Kumbaya. But Joe of Aramathea, now there was a picker!
# Posted on July 22nd 2011 by Bob himself
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
I meant "yhaal", of course.
# Posted on July 22nd 2011 by Bob himself
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
"I’ve mentioned here before that some of the kinds of voicings that give DADGAD its distinctive sound are available in standard and dropD tuning. You just have to get away from the standard closed chord forms and explore the neck. Partial chords against open strings can sound great in several common keys. E minor and A major are parcitularly rich in standard tuning." Bob himself
Gone yersel, Bob yourself. Your talking my language there. This is where you nail it:
"Partial chords against open strings can sound great in several common keys"
I stuck with standard simply because of the quality of that old root A chord X02220. In the scottish trad thing there simply isn't a more satisfactory resolution chord, crisp balanced and sounds just right. For the rest you've just got to check it out and mix it up...... Different strokes for different folks though.......
# Posted on July 22nd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
oh . so dolly parton is into irish music. this is the session ,I dont think dolly parton deserves a mention.you know what i meant yhall
arty mcglynn is drop d . at least when hes playing trad.Yes but kris drever is a real good guitarist .
im not against standard tuning in E(or at tune thats a mix of E and G) though .so you could say its my second favourite tuning
# Posted on July 22nd 2011 by banjitar
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
I think Dolly Parton was on an Altan album once, wasn't she?
# Posted on July 23rd 2011 by AlBrown
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
She must have been on a Chieftans album. It seems that everyone but me has had a shot at playing with them
# Posted on July 25th 2011 by zippydw
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Yep, Al,
Dolly sang along with Mairéad on 'Pretty Young Girl' on Altan's 'The Blue Idol' album.
# Posted on July 25th 2011 by MacCruiskeen
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
I play in DADGAD because i like the sound of the chords with the open strings and because the first tunes in fingerstyle that i have learned were arranged for DADGAD, and even because many trad. band's guitarists used to play in this tuning so i started to learn it. Of course You need to practice a lot to feel comfortable with if u are used to play in standard, I have never tried double dropped d, I have tried dropped d but I feel so close to dadgad that i hardly change. DADGAD is a bit harder if u want to play the tunes on guitar by flatpicking and i could suggest better the dropped d. I have a book by Paul de Grae who EXplain his tuning DADEAE called irish tuning by him.
It doesn't matter what tuning you decide to use
# Posted on July 27th 2011 by CORK
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
I used to flatpick a few tunes in DADGAD. Sometimes it's just the thing.
# Posted on July 27th 2011 by Bob himself
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
It's just that aggravating GA - the only way I can make it work is to skip a string - it starts to get complicated.
I agree, though that when it works it can be pretty cool, but to me it's just not a very generally useful tuning for either chords or flatpicking.
Your mileage, of course, may vary.
# Posted on July 27th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Well I don't flatpick much although I would like to do more. For me the limitation would be the treble string being tuned down to the D. It would mean you would have to work a lot harder to get up to the high notes, something I am not particularly good at.
The GA thing can be limiting at first but if you get a handle on it then it can be quite useful in giving you more than one place to play any one note. When I have tried flatpicking I have ended up playing the A or B note in 2 different places in the same tune depending on what comes before and after and what sort of ornament I am wanting to play.
# Posted on July 27th 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
I am not sure why it would be considered to be a weak tuning for chords though. Maybe it is just because it is what I am used to but I find it very flexible for chords and voicings.
# Posted on July 27th 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
As I say, your mileage may vary. I find it's less limiting than a fully open tuning, but still far too restrictive. Most DADGAD playing, ends up sounding more or less the same to me, and when I go into DADGAD I start to hear the same sameness, so I stay away from it.
Whatever - it's not a bodhran, so that's one thing in its favor!
# Posted on July 27th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
I mean this is an issue that there will be a lot of very personal opinions and defensive comments made. Most trad guitarists at sessions like to be able to say they play in DADGAD, for one thing it buys the other musicians' respect that they really know their way around a guitar but also, it is no longer a common instrument that the majority of people in the audience can play and may start asking to while drunk - a risky scenario if you have a nice guitar.
I, on the other hand, get a lot of praise from musicians that seem rather surprised that what I am doing looks quite straightforward but sounds ok. Some musicians wonder if I have my capo handy thinking that I'll need it extensively, some wonder if I have a dropped D string etc, I think practice and memory are as useful as the best sounding guitar, the finest technical ability (e.g. strumming triplets, inserting substitute chords), or the smoothest moving capo. I have also met numerous guitarists who can accompany an individual tune so much nicer than I would but spend several bars deciding where to put their capo or what chord change to make and I personally would have constant guitar playing through sets of tunes, approximately possible even when playing with strangers if you ear does its job.
In short, Arty McGlynn, Paul Brady, John Doyle etc would be some of the best accompanying guitar players regardless what tuning they play in. Personally, I don't like some of John Doyle's substitutions and alternate jazzy chords and I think the accompaniment on Molloy Brady and Peoples or Molloy Carty and McGlynn is, by in large, how it should be done.
# Posted on July 27th 2011 by Paudy
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
I've read Paudy's message above five times and I haven't a frigging clue what he's on about.
# Posted on July 27th 2011 by MacCruiskeen
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
1) If you play in DADGAD, the drunk punters don't come up wanting to play your guitar
2) He plays in standard and people like it. He doesn't use a capo and he doesn't like it when there's a break in the guitar to change the capo position
3) He doesn't like John Doyle that much (agreed) and prefers the work of Paul Brady on the album with Molloy and Peoples, or McGlynn's work with Molloy and Carty.
I think that about covers it.
# Posted on July 27th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
I read it once and its perfectly clear .. but then I play trad and guitar. I like the backing from the piano on Jimmy Powers recordings , the banjo backing on Paddy Cartys CD , Reg Hall backing Martin Byrnes, the piano backing on Dick Gaughan; buttons and brass.
Isnt it funny how guitarists want to bring in all sorts of fancy shtuff from other genres ........
I drop the D to play the tunes but 'back' in standard and I use a partial capo for playing the tunes but not for backing.
# Posted on July 27th 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Coppers and brass.
# Posted on July 27th 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Thanks for clarifying, Jon, I also had a little trouble drawing some of the points out of what Paudy was saying, for example, the fact that he plays in standard tuning was never really stated, only implied.
# Posted on July 28th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Coppers and brass. thats the one
Cheers No cause I always make that mistake... An all time favourite and inspiration to play the tunes on guitar.. The Man.
As regards standard, Paudy said at another thread that he backed in standard tuning and Id already taken note of that fact But its good of youse to clarify for those of us not paying attention and newcomers.
# Posted on July 28th 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
I cheated. He said it earlier in the thread.
# Posted on July 28th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
You have a good memory, Jon...
# Posted on July 28th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Oh? What makes you say that?
)
(
# Posted on July 28th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
"Cheers No cause... An all time favourite and inspiration to play the tunes on guitar.. The Man."
Who? Me or Dick?
# Posted on July 28th 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
your making work for yourself playing tunes in dadgad.i dont think you could get the fluidity in this tune like i did here. http://youtu.be/pfGEYwW-seA
# Posted on July 28th 2011 by banjitar
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Nice melody playing! No you are right, I probably couldn't get that fluidity if I played that tune on guitar (or not without some practice anyway) but I am not much of a melody player. I don't think DADGAD would be a weakness for the tune.
Incidentally whether you were in standard or dropped-D tuning wouldn't have made any difference as you didn't play the bass strings in that video at all.
# Posted on July 28th 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
...@ No cause Dick
but I am not much of a melody player
@Practice Ali!
I like drop D as I drone on a lot.....
I like smileys...[in case you hadnt noticed]
# Posted on July 28th 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Don't worry. I intend to. I may even have a go at Hardiman the Fiddler!
My new guitar is on order and I suspect that getting that will give me new impetus to work on all sorts of new things on the guitar...
# Posted on July 28th 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
thanks.But i meant dadgad , not u as a guitarist.il experiment to see if i can do it on dadgad but i doubt it.
I also can play a version of the black rogue in the lower register but i need to low d to do that so sometimes it can make a difference when in standard or drop d
# Posted on July 28th 2011 by banjitar
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Well yes.
There are other versions of the tune on Youtube being fingerpicked that look like they are in DADGAD although I am not sure I liked the style much in the videos I saw.
# Posted on July 28th 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Mr Gaughan is doing not bad in DADGAD on these tunes though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ29XRvoNHI
# Posted on July 28th 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
A wonderful video illustrating DADGAD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PpMg2IypX8
# Posted on July 28th 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
you cant really look past pierre or tony macmanus for that matter.I dont think either are flatpickers though or accompanists(well they accompany themselves well)
# Posted on July 28th 2011 by banjitar
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Tony's not a flatpicker??!!
# Posted on July 28th 2011 by Bob himself
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Tony is not an accompanist?
# Posted on July 28th 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/558
It is true that he tends to fingerpick rather than flatpick but I do not see the relevance of that to what tuning he uses.
(Incidentally he uses many tunings - which was one of the reasons I didn't mention him already as a DADGAD guitarist. He even uses standard occasionally).
# Posted on July 28th 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: droppred d, double dropped d, DADGAD
Before heading off to work this morning I dropped my guitar into DADGAD to have a try at Hardiman. Works pretty well, actually, the usual problems of tune playing in DADGAD don't show up as much on this tune, and the open A and D on top give you some advantages. Anyone playing DADGAD should really consider learning this one, if only as a party piece.
Try letting the low D ring under it - either catching the low strings on the down beat of a bar and leaving them ringing, or with a compound-picking approach (a la Richard Thompson).
(of course, it's a great tune for standard or drop-D picking as well - just a great tune all around, really)
# Posted on July 28th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky