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willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Would like to hear what the musicians on here honestly think about the bodhran in irish music,i honestly feel that when played by someone who is sensitive and aware of his or her job as a time keeper and who practices daily as any other musician is a real treat to listen to and lifts the music!!
Unfortunately many folk just crash a session and destroy a session,ive seen this many times too.
I personally prefer it as an acompanyment over a guitar as i feel its less intrusive and creates a more ancient earthy sound,with west of ireland and sliabh luachra music !
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
As long as they don't use sheet music, a metronome or treat a session like a performance, I'm fine with them. (There - that should take care of the big four - let simmer and stir occasioanlly so the pot doesn't burn)
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
at least they can only get the rhythym wrong, guitarists can get the chords wrong as well.
it was Seamus Ennis who said thatabout bodhrans and pen knives
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Bodhran can be great at a session, if it's played by a MUSICIAN. Out of the many bodhran "players" i've met, only 2 fit that category. I'm afraid it's just seen as a fast track way into a session. ('Start us off there with a slip-jig.' 'Eh... What?')
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
nice one joey,i agree its nice to hear every now and then in a session i find that a good bodhran player often waits for the nod as it were or knows the music and only playes for some tunes.
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
"when played by someone who ... who practices daily as any other musician"
just noticed this.
a) what would you practice on the bodhran?
b) none of the musicians I play with "practice" daily, by their reports. Or at all. They're all excellent players.
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Yeah, definitely. I agree with you - it can really lift a session and has that unique sound. In the hands of a good player it adds dimensions. But there's a huge difference between a good, sensitive player and a.. well, you know.. I can understand why there are an awful lot of penknives..
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Eh Jon? Not to be gangin' up on ya or anything, but they play their instruments every day. That's why they're "excellent players." It's the same thing as practice - they just enjoy it.
Duh.
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Jon, practise is for something you don't know how to play. But playing is for something you can play well. Example, i can *play a few tunes, but everytime i play a tune i'm *practising fiddle and the ITM genre. Cause even though i may know the notes to a tune, there's still a lot i don't know about fiddle and ITM. Make sense?
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
*Yawn* think I'll hit the hay.. I'll fall asleep listening to a few lullabys. Lullabys composed entirely with a bodhran..
Thanks tombo, don't take no shtick from dem penknife waving eejits..
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Jon Kiparsky, I know a bodhran player who does practice everyday. He practices playing to all of the common Irish dance forms (usually to a cd or dvd) - the rhythm, feel etc. He is pretty passionate about it, and he is also VERY GOOD!
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Note to self, don't even bother to open threads about bodhrans any more, "blah blah blah, hate them, blah blah blah, love them, blah blah blah, hate them, blah blah blah, love them, blah blah blah, hate them, blah blah blah, love them..."
and on and on it goes.
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Here’s a non-scientific confirmation that the bodhran has a “rightful place” in a session. You could have a great 6 person session with or without the presence of a bodhran, but you could equally well have a great 6 person session with or without the presence of a flute... or a fiddle... or a box etc etc etc.
A session’s like a cake. Lots of ingredients contribute to the overall flavour. The absence of presence of certain things changes the flavour of the cake, but it’s still a cake.
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
On the actual topic-- the sessions around here I've played in have a couple of very good bodhran players. One good bodhran player at a time adds a lot to a session. But I don't feel that a session need two playing at once any more than it need two guitars playing at once.
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
all posts are making for entertaining reading,im in total agreement about the two bodhran scenario,even if a second player comes and plays at a session im at ,i tend to stop cause its not fair on the musicians although i have seen two guys play at a big session in galway and it worked as all the musicians were familiar with each other and the tunes !!,a lot of slang on the posts i cant understand though so i figure its a scattering from around the globe.......keep em coming lads
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
I live in a town with several very good bodhran players. They always play tastefully, and make a conscious effort to blend in with the music. However, I have also been in session where several bodhran whackers all play at the same time. It feels like a thundering herd of ponies are trotting around the pub. Very difficult to play through...
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Kermit: Myth! Myth!
Woman: Yeth?
(And for the youngsters on thesession, back when birdfeather quills were used as pens, one used a small knife to trim the nib, and eventually, those took the form of small folding knives carried in the pocket, thus the name pen knife.)
(I was helping my son write a report for school years ago, and at the end of a paragraph, said 'hit the carriage return.' Took a while to explain why I called the 'enter' key by that odd name.)
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
My opinion was based on some 32 years of going to various sessions, not any book on session rules. Admittedly all are in the USA, but then, so was O'Neil.
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
These kids today... when I was a boy, we had to take the horse and buggy back to the stable when we got home from vitisng the city once a month, and then we'd turn on the laptop to let the stablemaster know ... there wasn't anything much to do on the internet back then, so "carriage returned" had its own dedicated key... you try telling that to these kids... they won't believe you!
(yes I remember when we listened to music on the wireless... you can't do that any more...)
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
"Al: Woudn't the carriage return more correctly be the 'Home" key? (not trying to be pedantic. was a programmer in a former life)"
The hexadecimal 0x0d - commonly called a carriage return, or just a return? Quite different from 0x24 - something my old Remington couldn't handle. It used to jump slightly when the carriage was returning. However, that bent arrow on the big key of a computer keyboard kind of describes the function of the old typewriter carriage return.
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
I think the crooked arrow carriage return + line feed key came in with electric typewriters and teletype computer terminals (those were the days) etc. On a manual typewriter carriage return + line feed was done with the lever on the end of the carriage and pushing it loaded a spring that drove the carriage back as letters were typed. IIRC the only key on the keyboard that moved the carriage released that spring and sent the carriage thunking back. Good for knocking coffee cups off the table if they were left there during a break. .
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
emmdee wrote: "Here’s a non-scientific confirmation that the bodhran has a “rightful place” in a session. You could have a great 6 person session with or without the presence of a bodhran, but you could equally well have a great 6 person session with or without the presence of a flute... or a fiddle... or a box etc etc etc."
The logic in that is flawed. It misses the point that you can have a good session without a bodhran, but you cannot have a good session without any melody instruments.
To be clear:
You can have a good session with two or more of any melody instrument and no bodhrans. You cannot have a good session with two or more bodhrans and no melody instruments.
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Will, I am surprised that it took so long before someone challenged emmdee's assertion, which was one of those "all trout are fish, therefore all fish are trout" kind of statements.
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
A session with 6 bodhrans and nothing else would be a poor sort of session. A session with 6 tin whistle players and nothing else would be a poor sort of session. I say that as a tin whistle player They'd all be slightly out of tune with each other, the one with the Susato would be shrill as all helll...
I'm being light hearted in saying that, but I didn't say you can have a session with no melody instruments. Will's putting words in my mouth, there.
m.d.
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
No, m.d., I only pointed out that your original post didn't "confirm" the bodhran's place in sessions. You tried to equate the bodhran's role with that of melody instruments, except those other instruments happen to be able to play the actual tunes. Of course you can delete any instrument from a group of six and still have a session, as long as the remaining five aren't all bodhrans.
Six isn't the magic number for understanding this. Two is. You can have a cracking session with just two players.
Imagine a whistle player walks into an empty pub, sits down and begins to play tunes. The next player through the door makes it a session. If it's a bodhran, it's a session. If it's another whistler, or any other melody instrument, it's still a session.
Now imagine that a bodhran player walks into an empty pub, sits down and begins to thump away. The next player through the door is another bodhran player. End of story.
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
I started playing ITM on the bodhran, I practised all day and tried to really feel like I was playing the tune in my head, not just any jig or reel. I now play bodhran guitar fiddle and banjo so I guess it's like a stepping stone drug!
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Paudy, you didn't start playing Irish music on the bodhran, you started playing Irish music in your head. Big, big difference.
And for any bodhran players out there who think they are playing Irish music on the thing, this as just about as important a distinction as can possibly be made.
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Lligs got a point. You're playing a rhythm/beat with an irish flavour, you're not playing irish music, in the same way as a jazz drummer isn't playing jazz - just beats eminently suitable for the genre :P
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Well llig leahcim and Will thanks, I had the advantage of developing an interest in music as much as something to do while watching my friend start up a session. He warned me that I would need to develop some proficiency on the bodhran beyond just being able to play in time so I worked hard on it.
But llig leahcim I guess you're right, I used to lilt while I played, "aldi lidl le aldi lidl le aldi lidl dle lidl dle dunnes" or something hilarious like that (Cliffs of Moher). I'm surely not saying that all Ireland bodhran champions who don't play other instruments lack anything that I have, quite the contrary, I just can kind of empathise with the theory that bodhran is an easier entry level instrument than something like the fiddle or pipes.
A lot of musicians still tell me that they can hear in my guitar and bodhran accompaniment that I know the tune and that it shines out clearly, I still don't think this neccessarily means that my accompaniment is better than the spread just because I know the tune (most good backing musicians probably do know the tune but even some that don't would probably play just as well if not better than me for any given tune that I do know).
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
I think it's one of life's great conundrums ... that so many people can spend so much time in the company of Irish diddley music and never develop an interest for it.
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Bail ó Dhia oraibh! Greetings all!
To be clear: You can have a good session with two or more of any melody instrument and no bodhrans. You cannot have a good session with two or more bodhrans and no melody instruments.
# Posted on July 17th 2011 by Will Harmon
Will’s comments brought back a memory just after I’d arrived in Tasmania.
At that time there was a, now defunct, session at Irish Murphy’s In Hobart.
I didn’t know that many of the local musicians had headed North to the
Tamar Valley folk Festival, so there I was, thinking that I was up for a session and duly arrived on the Sunday afternoon.
There waiting for me were an emerging mandolinist who could only strum at the time, a bodhrán, and …two shakey eggs!
“Oh great Brian! Now that you’re here we can have a session; we’ll get the beer tickets!”
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Interestingly enough, after reading Will's comments, I went to my local session to find that (probably due to the fact it had been a beautiful summer day) that only two of us were there. The session leader had his fiddle, zouk and whistle, and I had my whistle and accordion and guitar. So we both played melody at times, I accompanied him, and he accompanied me (which was a first for me, being alone on the melody) and it was a fine session. So it does work with only two musicians.
(Oh, and in the interest of full disclosure, a beginner thumper showed up after a while and joined in...)
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
(I'm liking the solid description there of a session of two people working very well ... and the apologetic, in brackets, admission that there was also a bodhran player ... who didn't count)
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Ah llig.. Give us a break! ;D he did say a "beginner" thumper. You must have had some fairly horrible encounters with the drum! Which one made you think "no never ever no no no NO!"
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
A session with two people can be nice but it's definitely helpful that you knew the other guy, when people are either out to prove a point or judge a player they don't know, the 2 man thing is sometimes not even worth doing. Now beggars can't be choosers, I may be in Ireland now but when I move to NY state I'll need to be prepared to probably play on my own to keep a session going or start one at times, just when you know others are coming, though this used to frustrate me, there sometimes is a lot to be said for having a calming drink and chat with the player for a few minutes.
But AlB, in your case, with only a beginner beater on his way it sounds like you greatly enhanced the session by just getting on with it. Sometimes two melody and no accompaniment can be amazing too, but an audience doesn't get it sometimes either.
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
I probably expressed that a little strongly, I guess I just mean that when you have 2 players and one doesn't know the other there can be this uncomfortable uncertainty that you wouldn't get with 2 guys that know each other, totally depends on the place people etc though
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
I have met numerous folks who play bodhran in addition to other instruments, there really is no end to the variety of instruments a bodhran player may also play. But, I suppose that point also lends itself to the theory that somebody who plays the fiddle and the bodhran is a fiddle player that also plays bodhran, somebody at a session in San Jose once described this point as the figurative "food chain" while explaining that he was rigidly following my rythym in my guitar accompaniment because I ranked above him.
Although I found this a very regimented comment, the alternative is a bodhran player who doesn't follow other key session instruments, immediately rendering this player intrusive to the session. Conversely as a fiddle or guitar player you don't have to worry about playing in a sympathetic manner to the bodhran player's playing, you just have to worry whether he'll accompany you correctly or not!
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
dont agree paudy lad just think about the class players like colm murphy or ringo when those lads play its a real treat,to be honest the accom instruments often clash but neither is in any rank,thats what i reckon anyway
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
If the bodhran is played by a percussionist, it will enhance the music, like a jazz drummer pushes the phrasing in jazz. If the bodhran is played by someone who thinks it's an easy way to sit in on a session because they are there to "keep the beat", then the session can do well enough without them. I've played percussion for over 40 years and can't abide some twit pounding away and burying the subtleties of a great session. I've sat in on a few sessions and it's usually the beat keepers who are "in charge." Oh brother. Less is more.
willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Would like to hear what the musicians on here honestly think about the bodhran in irish music,i honestly feel that when played by someone who is sensitive and aware of his or her job as a time keeper and who practices daily as any other musician is a real treat to listen to and lifts the music!!
Unfortunately many folk just crash a session and destroy a session,ive seen this many times too.
I personally prefer it as an acompanyment over a guitar as i feel its less intrusive and creates a more ancient earthy sound,with west of ireland and sliabh luachra music !
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by tombo
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
As long as they don't use sheet music, a metronome or treat a session like a performance, I'm fine with them. (There - that should take care of the big four - let simmer and stir occasioanlly so the pot doesn't burn)
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Oops - forgot the "Noodles"
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
at least they can only get the rhythym wrong, guitarists can get the chords wrong as well.
it was Seamus Ennis who said thatabout bodhrans and pen knives
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by Joseph Tailyour
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
"suitable sessions!!"
Agreed but I'm sure many sessions will be regarded as "unsuitable"....
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by Johnny Jay
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
At best, they're only a bother. They're rarely at their best.
Leave them for the pub bands, keep the sessions for the music.
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
"...his or her job as a time keeper..." Says who?
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by gam
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
fair enough gam,i take that one back your right definately
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by tombo
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Bodhran can be great at a session, if it's played by a MUSICIAN. Out of the many bodhran "players" i've met, only 2 fit that category. I'm afraid it's just seen as a fast track way into a session. ('Start us off there with a slip-jig.' 'Eh... What?')
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by Joey Jordan
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
That was my attempt at an objective view of the instrument. I play the bodhran and it ROCKS.
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by Joey Jordan
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
nice one joey,i agree its nice to hear every now and then in a session i find that a good bodhran player often waits for the nod as it were or knows the music and only playes for some tunes.
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by tombo
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
"when played by someone who ... who practices daily as any other musician"
just noticed this.
a) what would you practice on the bodhran?
b) none of the musicians I play with "practice" daily, by their reports. Or at all. They're all excellent players.
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
whatever............ jon go join a boxing club
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by tombo
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Yeah, definitely. I agree with you - it can really lift a session and has that unique sound. In the hands of a good player it adds dimensions. But there's a huge difference between a good, sensitive player and a.. well, you know.. I can understand why there are an awful lot of penknives..
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by Joey Jordan
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Eh Jon? Not to be gangin' up on ya or anything, but they play their instruments every day. That's why they're "excellent players." It's the same thing as practice - they just enjoy it.
Duh.
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by Joey Jordan
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
As to what's practised on the bodhran? How 'bout rhythms?
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by Joey Jordan
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
go on joey boy on de ball aul stock
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by tombo
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Jon, practise is for something you don't know how to play. But playing is for something you can play well. Example, i can *play a few tunes, but everytime i play a tune i'm *practising fiddle and the ITM genre. Cause even though i may know the notes to a tune, there's still a lot i don't know about fiddle and ITM. Make sense?
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
*Yawn* think I'll hit the hay.. I'll fall asleep listening to a few lullabys. Lullabys composed entirely with a bodhran..
Thanks tombo, don't take no shtick from dem penknife waving eejits..
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by Joey Jordan
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
sher no man wants to be a member of a club he's not wanted in
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by tombo
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Jon Kiparsky, I know a bodhran player who does practice everyday. He practices playing to all of the common Irish dance forms (usually to a cd or dvd) - the rhythm, feel etc. He is pretty passionate about it, and he is also VERY GOOD!
# Posted on July 15th 2011 by Bredna
;)
Except a man who plays a rhythm instrument in a purely melodic genre perhaps.
# Posted on July 15th 2011 by Dragut Reis
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
The main technique the bodhranistas fail to master is that of playing quietly for long periods.
# Posted on July 15th 2011 by Bren
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Note to self, don't even bother to open threads about bodhrans any more, "blah blah blah, hate them, blah blah blah, love them, blah blah blah, hate them, blah blah blah, love them, blah blah blah, hate them, blah blah blah, love them..."
and on and on it goes.
# Posted on July 15th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Right on Al. It wouldn't be an internet forum without that kind of argument continually going on. At least it isn't politics or religion.
# Posted on July 15th 2011 by banshee misfortune
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Or Nazis!
(oops, just triggered Godwin's Law)
# Posted on July 15th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
I'm heading off to the workshop to make a dozen bodhrans.
# Posted on July 15th 2011 by mcknowall
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Well done, Al. Thread closed...
# Posted on July 15th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Here’s a non-scientific confirmation that the bodhran has a “rightful place” in a session. You could have a great 6 person session with or without the presence of a bodhran, but you could equally well have a great 6 person session with or without the presence of a flute... or a fiddle... or a box etc etc etc.
A session’s like a cake. Lots of ingredients contribute to the overall flavour. The absence of presence of certain things changes the flavour of the cake, but it’s still a cake.
# Posted on July 15th 2011 by emmdee
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/9423/
# Posted on July 15th 2011 by ...
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
what does penknife mean...?
# Posted on July 15th 2011 by Surly Boy
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Ah! 'Clacherty'!
# Posted on July 15th 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
On the actual topic-- the sessions around here I've played in have a couple of very good bodhran players. One good bodhran player at a time adds a lot to a session. But I don't feel that a session need two playing at once any more than it need two guitars playing at once.
# Posted on July 15th 2011 by fiddlentina
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Q. What is a bodhran basher?
Is it -
(a) Someone who bashes bodhrans?
or
(b) Someone who bashes those who bash bodhrans?
# Posted on July 15th 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
all posts are making for entertaining reading,im in total agreement about the two bodhran scenario,even if a second player comes and plays at a session im at ,i tend to stop cause its not fair on the musicians although i have seen two guys play at a big session in galway and it worked as all the musicians were familiar with each other and the tunes !!,a lot of slang on the posts i cant understand though so i figure its a scattering from around the globe.......keep em coming lads
# Posted on July 15th 2011 by tombo
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
I live in a town with several very good bodhran players. They always play tastefully, and make a conscious effort to blend in with the music. However, I have also been in session where several bodhran whackers all play at the same time. It feels like a thundering herd of ponies are trotting around the pub. Very difficult to play through...
# Posted on July 15th 2011 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
a bodhran basher is the irish equivalent to el kabong !!!he will attack unprovoked especially known to attack snooty fiddle players lol
# Posted on July 15th 2011 by tombo
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
ah hill 16 for the whackers they sound good up there all together
# Posted on July 15th 2011 by tombo
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
El Kabong -- Baba Looey!
I think bodhrans are perfectly acceptable in a Psychiatrist session. Major therapy.
# Posted on July 15th 2011 by MorganYYZ
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
yeah and a few war pipes too
# Posted on July 15th 2011 by tombo
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Kermit: Myth! Myth!
Woman: Yeth?
(And for the youngsters on thesession, back when birdfeather quills were used as pens, one used a small knife to trim the nib, and eventually, those took the form of small folding knives carried in the pocket, thus the name pen knife.)
(I was helping my son write a report for school years ago, and at the end of a paragraph, said 'hit the carriage return.' Took a while to explain why I called the 'enter' key by that odd name.)
# Posted on July 16th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
My opinion was based on some 32 years of going to various sessions, not any book on session rules. Admittedly all are in the USA, but then, so was O'Neil.
# Posted on July 16th 2011 by fiddlentina
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
These kids today... when I was a boy, we had to take the horse and buggy back to the stable when we got home from vitisng the city once a month, and then we'd turn on the laptop to let the stablemaster know ... there wasn't anything much to do on the internet back then, so "carriage returned" had its own dedicated key... you try telling that to these kids... they won't believe you!
(yes I remember when we listened to music on the wireless... you can't do that any more...)
# Posted on July 16th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Al: Woudn't the carriage return more correctly be the 'Home" key? (not trying to be pedantic. was a programmer in a former life)
I mastered the Bodhran in two weeks! It's pretty easy for any melody player already who has a sense of rhythm.
# Posted on July 16th 2011 by banshee misfortune
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
"Al: Woudn't the carriage return more correctly be the 'Home" key? (not trying to be pedantic. was a programmer in a former life)"
The hexadecimal 0x0d - commonly called a carriage return, or just a return? Quite different from 0x24 - something my old Remington couldn't handle. It used to jump slightly when the carriage was returning. However, that bent arrow on the big key of a computer keyboard kind of describes the function of the old typewriter carriage return.
# Posted on July 16th 2011 by Weejie
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
"A little tip for you Jon"
I like it. Oh that subtle humor.
Next week's topic will be line feed. How fishing relates to programming.
# Posted on July 16th 2011 by MorganYYZ
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Good for you, fiddlentina, give as good as you get!
# Posted on July 17th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
"Next week's topic will be line feed. How fishing relates to programming."
That could be construed as baiting.
# Posted on July 17th 2011 by Weejie
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
I will be waiting with bated breath.
# Posted on July 17th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
I'd suggest you try a good mouthwash, and maybe lay off the worms.
# Posted on July 17th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
I think the crooked arrow carriage return + line feed key came in with electric typewriters and teletype computer terminals (those were the days) etc. On a manual typewriter carriage return + line feed was done with the lever on the end of the carriage and pushing it loaded a spring that drove the carriage back as letters were typed. IIRC the only key on the keyboard that moved the carriage released that spring and sent the carriage thunking back. Good for knocking coffee cups off the table if they were left there during a break. .
# Posted on July 17th 2011 by David50
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Thunking forward.
# Posted on July 17th 2011 by David50
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
emmdee wrote: "Here’s a non-scientific confirmation that the bodhran has a “rightful place” in a session. You could have a great 6 person session with or without the presence of a bodhran, but you could equally well have a great 6 person session with or without the presence of a flute... or a fiddle... or a box etc etc etc."
The logic in that is flawed. It misses the point that you can have a good session without a bodhran, but you cannot have a good session without any melody instruments.
To be clear:
You can have a good session with two or more of any melody instrument and no bodhrans. You cannot have a good session with two or more bodhrans and no melody instruments.
# Posted on July 17th 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Will, I am surprised that it took so long before someone challenged emmdee's assertion, which was one of those "all trout are fish, therefore all fish are trout" kind of statements.
# Posted on July 17th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
A session with 6 bodhrans and nothing else would be a poor sort of session. A session with 6 tin whistle players and nothing else would be a poor sort of session. I say that as a tin whistle player
They'd all be slightly out of tune with each other, the one with the Susato would be shrill as all helll...
I'm being light hearted in saying that, but I didn't say you can have a session with no melody instruments. Will's putting words in my mouth, there.
m.d.
# Posted on July 17th 2011 by emmdee
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
No, m.d., I only pointed out that your original post didn't "confirm" the bodhran's place in sessions. You tried to equate the bodhran's role with that of melody instruments, except those other instruments happen to be able to play the actual tunes. Of course you can delete any instrument from a group of six and still have a session, as long as the remaining five aren't all bodhrans.
Six isn't the magic number for understanding this. Two is. You can have a cracking session with just two players.
Imagine a whistle player walks into an empty pub, sits down and begins to play tunes. The next player through the door makes it a session. If it's a bodhran, it's a session. If it's another whistler, or any other melody instrument, it's still a session.
Now imagine that a bodhran player walks into an empty pub, sits down and begins to thump away. The next player through the door is another bodhran player. End of story.
# Posted on July 17th 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
I started playing ITM on the bodhran, I practised all day and tried to really feel like I was playing the tune in my head, not just any jig or reel. I now play bodhran guitar fiddle and banjo so I guess it's like a stepping stone drug!
# Posted on July 18th 2011 by Paudy
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
That's as good a use of a bodhran as any I've heard. Good on you for learning to play the tunes, Paudy.
# Posted on July 18th 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Paudy, you didn't start playing Irish music on the bodhran, you started playing Irish music in your head. Big, big difference.
And for any bodhran players out there who think they are playing Irish music on the thing, this as just about as important a distinction as can possibly be made.
# Posted on July 18th 2011 by ...
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Get a grip llig, the bodhran player uses his instrument to accompany irish music.
# Posted on July 18th 2011 by Gran Cassa
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
That's what I said. But there are a lot of thwackers who thing they are playing Irish music on it.
# Posted on July 18th 2011 by ...
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
think
# Posted on July 18th 2011 by ...
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Lligs got a point. You're playing a rhythm/beat with an irish flavour, you're not playing irish music, in the same way as a jazz drummer isn't playing jazz - just beats eminently suitable for the genre :P
# Posted on July 18th 2011 by Joey Jordan
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Not making a comparison between bodhranistas and jazz drummers
# Posted on July 18th 2011 by Joey Jordan
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
"Not making a comparison between bodhranistas and jazz drummers"
Hmmn, why not?
I reckon anything goes with the bodhran nowadays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avTlwH122mI
# Posted on July 18th 2011 by Piece
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Well llig leahcim and Will thanks, I had the advantage of developing an interest in music as much as something to do while watching my friend start up a session. He warned me that I would need to develop some proficiency on the bodhran beyond just being able to play in time so I worked hard on it.
But llig leahcim I guess you're right, I used to lilt while I played, "aldi lidl le aldi lidl le aldi lidl dle lidl dle dunnes" or something hilarious like that (Cliffs of Moher). I'm surely not saying that all Ireland bodhran champions who don't play other instruments lack anything that I have, quite the contrary, I just can kind of empathise with the theory that bodhran is an easier entry level instrument than something like the fiddle or pipes.
A lot of musicians still tell me that they can hear in my guitar and bodhran accompaniment that I know the tune and that it shines out clearly, I still don't think this neccessarily means that my accompaniment is better than the spread just because I know the tune (most good backing musicians probably do know the tune but even some that don't would probably play just as well if not better than me for any given tune that I do know).
This is actually a video I made while learning, over 2 years ago now! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Aa_hR9045w
# Posted on July 18th 2011 by Paudy
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
I think it's one of life's great conundrums ... that so many people can spend so much time in the company of Irish diddley music and never develop an interest for it.
# Posted on July 18th 2011 by ...
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Bail ó Dhia oraibh! Greetings all!
To be clear: You can have a good session with two or more of any melody instrument and no bodhrans. You cannot have a good session with two or more bodhrans and no melody instruments.
# Posted on July 17th 2011 by Will Harmon
Will’s comments brought back a memory just after I’d arrived in Tasmania.
At that time there was a, now defunct, session at Irish Murphy’s In Hobart.
I didn’t know that many of the local musicians had headed North to the
Tamar Valley folk Festival, so there I was, thinking that I was up for a session and duly arrived on the Sunday afternoon.
There waiting for me were an emerging mandolinist who could only strum at the time, a bodhrán, and …two shakey eggs!
“Oh great Brian! Now that you’re here we can have a session; we’ll get the beer tickets!”
All the best
Brian x
# Posted on July 18th 2011 by briantheflute
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Interestingly enough, after reading Will's comments, I went to my local session to find that (probably due to the fact it had been a beautiful summer day) that only two of us were there. The session leader had his fiddle, zouk and whistle, and I had my whistle and accordion and guitar. So we both played melody at times, I accompanied him, and he accompanied me (which was a first for me, being alone on the melody) and it was a fine session. So it does work with only two musicians.
(Oh, and in the interest of full disclosure, a beginner thumper showed up after a while and joined in...)
# Posted on July 19th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
(I'm liking the solid description there of a session of two people working very well ... and the apologetic, in brackets, admission that there was also a bodhran player ... who didn't count)
# Posted on July 19th 2011 by ...
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Ah llig.. Give us a break! ;D he did say a "beginner" thumper. You must have had some fairly horrible encounters with the drum! Which one made you think "no never ever no no no NO!"
# Posted on July 19th 2011 by Joey Jordan
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
A session with two people can be nice but it's definitely helpful that you knew the other guy, when people are either out to prove a point or judge a player they don't know, the 2 man thing is sometimes not even worth doing. Now beggars can't be choosers, I may be in Ireland now but when I move to NY state I'll need to be prepared to probably play on my own to keep a session going or start one at times, just when you know others are coming, though this used to frustrate me, there sometimes is a lot to be said for having a calming drink and chat with the player for a few minutes.
But AlB, in your case, with only a beginner beater on his way it sounds like you greatly enhanced the session by just getting on with it. Sometimes two melody and no accompaniment can be amazing too, but an audience doesn't get it sometimes either.
# Posted on July 19th 2011 by Paudy
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
When anyone is either out to prove a point or judge a player they don't know, it doesn't matter how many people there are, I'd always walk out.
# Posted on July 19th 2011 by ...
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
I probably expressed that a little strongly, I guess I just mean that when you have 2 players and one doesn't know the other there can be this uncomfortable uncertainty that you wouldn't get with 2 guys that know each other, totally depends on the place people etc though
# Posted on July 19th 2011 by Paudy
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
Some of us practise daily because we play multiple "musical" instruments.
# Posted on July 19th 2011 by geoffwright
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
I have met numerous folks who play bodhran in addition to other instruments, there really is no end to the variety of instruments a bodhran player may also play. But, I suppose that point also lends itself to the theory that somebody who plays the fiddle and the bodhran is a fiddle player that also plays bodhran, somebody at a session in San Jose once described this point as the figurative "food chain" while explaining that he was rigidly following my rythym in my guitar accompaniment because I ranked above him.
Although I found this a very regimented comment, the alternative is a bodhran player who doesn't follow other key session instruments, immediately rendering this player intrusive to the session. Conversely as a fiddle or guitar player you don't have to worry about playing in a sympathetic manner to the bodhran player's playing, you just have to worry whether he'll accompany you correctly or not!
# Posted on July 20th 2011 by Paudy
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
dont agree paudy lad just think about the class players like colm murphy or ringo when those lads play its a real treat,to be honest the accom instruments often clash but neither is in any rank,thats what i reckon anyway
# Posted on July 23rd 2011 by tombo
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
If the bodhran is played by a percussionist, it will enhance the music, like a jazz drummer pushes the phrasing in jazz. If the bodhran is played by someone who thinks it's an easy way to sit in on a session because they are there to "keep the beat", then the session can do well enough without them. I've played percussion for over 40 years and can't abide some twit pounding away and burying the subtleties of a great session. I've sat in on a few sessions and it's usually the beat keepers who are "in charge." Oh brother. Less is more.
# Posted on August 3rd 2011 by baxdrum
Re: willy was wrong about the penknife !!! bodhran played well has its rightful place in suitable sessions!!
"Less is more"
And none at all is sublime!
# Posted on August 3rd 2011 by Jon Kiparsky