I joined a local trad learning group in Galway last year and up to this have played silver flute. My love for the music has grown and so has my desire to now move onto an Irish flute. Just a few questions - is the fingering all that different. I can manage to play a few notes on tin whistle which I never played before I started on silver flute. I heard the tin whistle fingering is very similar to Irish flute whistle fingering. Also what do you think of polymer flutes? Somebody mentioned a Tony Dixon - any ideas. The budget is tight (surprise, surprise). Anyway thanks for any advice or help.
Mostly you'll have to learn that the XXX XOO is F# and the C is corssfingered something like OXX OOO or OXO XXX. And don't touch C or Eb keys.
For trying out your bet would be a Tipple flute or Somers aluminium flute. They have a cylindrical body which is very cheap and feels more similar to the silver flute, and these two models have correction mechanisms (so that the octaves are in tune and you don't learn any bad habits) that Dixon flutes lack.
The next tier would be a Dixon 3-piece flute and the $300-500 flutes from various makers.
See if you can anjust to the different feel and fingerings. You can get similar tone and agility on the silver flute (listen to Joannie Madden!) but it will be somewhat more difficult. But if you play different kinds of music the silver flute can be a universal instrument.
I prefer to think of it as a wooden flute.
I believe it's a bigger stretch for your fingers than a silver flute.
See if you can try a few and buy the best you can afford. You don't want to put off by trying to play a poor one.
I play the silver flute at school with the kids in band, and the keyless flute at our session. I like the keyless flute more (mine is made of delrin), although I find I need to use the "piper's grip" with my right hand. I can't play F nat, B flat, A flat, nor E flat on my keyless flute.
Its not hard to switch from Boehm silver flute to Irish flute. For the first month or so just stick to the new instrument until it feels comfortable, then you should be fine using whatever is useful at the time.
With regards to the extra notes - I can play F naturals (half-holed) if coming 'up' to them from D or E, but it's not so easy coming down onto them. G#/Ab is similar, and also has a reasonable alternative fingering available. D#/Eb is pretty bad though.
There is quite a difference between how the flutes are articulated. Most Irish flute players seem to use 'glottal stops' to start notes, whereas classical technique is to tongue them. I still tongue those notes, but use various softer tonguings that don't sound so harsh, and often 'slur' many of them, or use cuts to articulate them.
Irish flute takes a lot more air for the following reasons:
The bore gets smaller from headjoint to tail which creates back pressure.
It is softer and requires more of a push of air for both volume and the reedy sound Irish flute is known for.
There are no rests in Irish music, so until you get used to how to articulate and ornament, you will tend to run out of air.
Don't despair - you will get the hang of it in time, you just need to know that managing breath control is something that will have learned. It is very different than on silver flute, but rewarding as heck once you master it.
Making this switch was the best move i have ever made. I found it really easy it just took me awhile to get my head around where the notes ie f natural and f sharp and c natural and c sharp and not having a middle c were the main trouble makers. I didn't find the stretch to difficult and the terry mcgee i got was really easy to play and I didn't notice much difference in the amount of air flow i had to use. I haven't picked up my silver since i got the wooden but definitly worth it. Just do it !!you won't regret it belive me.
larry, The whistle is fingered just like the flute, and you would not be wasting any time at all to learn to play the whistle while searching for a flute that you like, and can afford. I recommend going to lots of sessions, finding flute players in the local area, even trying to talk them into letting you try different instruments. Good luck, and enjoy the new adventure!
Irish flute v Boehm flute, the differences in playing the instruments themselves aren't all that great: a few differences in fingering, a somewhat different embouchure.
Much more of an issue is the long list of stylistic differences between somebody raised playing Classical/Baroque music on the flute and somebody raised playing traditional Irish music on the flute. This is just as true for people switching to the traditional Irish style but continuing to play the Boehm flute.
(There are plenty of people who play traditional Irish music in a traditional style on the Boehm or other mechanised flutes, witness Paddy Carty, Joannie Madden, etc.)
I've found over the years that the biggest hurdles are things like tonguing, phrasing, and finger action (Boehm fluteplayers are taught to keep their fingers in "guide position" and move from that position, gently, to the keys to eliminate key noise; but this approach doesn't give anywhere near the finger velocity required to produce the right "pop" to pats etc).
You don't say what your musical background is, and perhaps you already play traditional Irish music in the traditional style. Then it's a very simple matter to switch to the Irish flute.
Don't think of ít as a move - think of it as adding a new instrument. I went down this path and now play both simple system and Boehm. They both have their place. For ITM, the simple system flute has many advantages, mainly based around the system of ornamentation that has built up to use the direct holes. For everything else, it is a lot simpler to play in different keys on a Boehm flute. Many things work well on both.
The main challenge is however, not the technical difference between the instruments, but rather the learning of the appropriate style on whatever instrument you are going to play.
The advice to concentrate exclusively on the simple system flute for a while is also good. A month or two should be ok. Learn the whistle too, if only because whistles in lots of different keys are cheap and really useful.
Expect Boehm and wooden flutes to require different embouchures to get the best out of them.
And expect that what is considered "right" for one is not necessarily "right" for the other, though it is not necessarily wrong either... A lot depends on the experience of the person asserting the fact. The amount that the fingers are expected to move is one good example of this.
Good breath support is never wrong.
I like Casey Burns' folk flutes for the money. They are not the only option at the cheaper end of the scale, but the only one that I own and use regularly (as my "camp fire" flute.).
Back in the 1980s I was playing a Casey Burns flute for a few years. It was keyless, made out of gorgeous flamed Mountain Mahogany, a Pratten style flute with a big sound. I could easily be heard over a blasting accordion on that flute.
I've not played his newer flutes.
Personally I would prefer a wood flute, such as a Casey Burns flute, over a delrin flute, all things being equal. The delrin flutes I've played have been very heavy. But of course a delrin flute won't ever crack! Nearly indestructable, them things.
Changing from Silver to Irish Simple Flute
Changing from Silver to Irish Simple Flute
Hi there,
I joined a local trad learning group in Galway last year and up to this have played silver flute. My love for the music has grown and so has my desire to now move onto an Irish flute. Just a few questions - is the fingering all that different. I can manage to play a few notes on tin whistle which I never played before I started on silver flute. I heard the tin whistle fingering is very similar to Irish flute whistle fingering. Also what do you think of polymer flutes? Somebody mentioned a Tony Dixon - any ideas. The budget is tight (surprise, surprise). Anyway thanks for any advice or help.
# Posted on July 13th 2011 by larrythecat
Re: Changing from Silver to Irish Simple Flute
The fingering is the same as tin whistle.
# Posted on July 13th 2011 by gam
Re: Changing from Silver to Irish Simple Flute
Mostly you'll have to learn that the XXX XOO is F# and the C is corssfingered something like OXX OOO or OXO XXX. And don't touch C or Eb keys.
For trying out your bet would be a Tipple flute or Somers aluminium flute. They have a cylindrical body which is very cheap and feels more similar to the silver flute, and these two models have correction mechanisms (so that the octaves are in tune and you don't learn any bad habits) that Dixon flutes lack.
The next tier would be a Dixon 3-piece flute and the $300-500 flutes from various makers.
See if you can anjust to the different feel and fingerings. You can get similar tone and agility on the silver flute (listen to Joannie Madden!) but it will be somewhat more difficult. But if you play different kinds of music the silver flute can be a universal instrument.
# Posted on July 13th 2011 by Elvellon
Re: Changing from Silver to Irish Simple Flute
I prefer to think of it as a wooden flute.
I believe it's a bigger stretch for your fingers than a silver flute.
See if you can try a few and buy the best you can afford. You don't want to put off by trying to play a poor one.
# Posted on July 13th 2011 by minijackpot
Re: Changing from Silver to Irish Simple Flute
I play the silver flute at school with the kids in band, and the keyless flute at our session. I like the keyless flute more (mine is made of delrin), although I find I need to use the "piper's grip" with my right hand. I can't play F nat, B flat, A flat, nor E flat on my keyless flute.
# Posted on July 13th 2011 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Changing from Silver to Irish Simple Flute
"I prefer to think of it as a wooden flute."
Because mine is wooden, with silver keys, my pride and joy.
# Posted on July 13th 2011 by minijackpot
Re: Changing from Silver to Irish Simple Flute
I always suspected the Flute was "simple" compared to some intricate instruments like........
# Posted on July 13th 2011 by bodhran bliss
Re: Changing from Silver to Irish Simple Flute
Its not hard to switch from Boehm silver flute to Irish flute. For the first month or so just stick to the new instrument until it feels comfortable, then you should be fine using whatever is useful at the time.
With regards to the extra notes - I can play F naturals (half-holed) if coming 'up' to them from D or E, but it's not so easy coming down onto them. G#/Ab is similar, and also has a reasonable alternative fingering available. D#/Eb is pretty bad though.
There is quite a difference between how the flutes are articulated. Most Irish flute players seem to use 'glottal stops' to start notes, whereas classical technique is to tongue them. I still tongue those notes, but use various softer tonguings that don't sound so harsh, and often 'slur' many of them, or use cuts to articulate them.
# Posted on July 13th 2011 by Bredna
Re: Changing from Silver to Irish Simple Flute
Irish flute takes a lot more air for the following reasons:
The bore gets smaller from headjoint to tail which creates back pressure.
It is softer and requires more of a push of air for both volume and the reedy sound Irish flute is known for.
There are no rests in Irish music, so until you get used to how to articulate and ornament, you will tend to run out of air.
Don't despair - you will get the hang of it in time, you just need to know that managing breath control is something that will have learned. It is very different than on silver flute, but rewarding as heck once you master it.
# Posted on July 13th 2011 by Ailin
Re: Changing from Silver to Irish Simple Flute
Making this switch was the best move i have ever made. I found it really easy it just took me awhile to get my head around where the notes ie f natural and f sharp and c natural and c sharp and not having a middle c were the main trouble makers. I didn't find the stretch to difficult and the terry mcgee i got was really easy to play and I didn't notice much difference in the amount of air flow i had to use. I haven't picked up my silver since i got the wooden but definitly worth it. Just do it !!you won't regret it belive me.
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by frogeyes
Re: Changing from Silver to Irish Simple Flute
larry, The whistle is fingered just like the flute, and you would not be wasting any time at all to learn to play the whistle while searching for a flute that you like, and can afford. I recommend going to lots of sessions, finding flute players in the local area, even trying to talk them into letting you try different instruments. Good luck, and enjoy the new adventure!
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: Changing from Silver to Irish Simple Flute
Thanks guys and gals for all the great information. Makes me feel a bit more relaxed about making the move.
Thanks a million.
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by larrythecat
Re: Changing from Silver to Irish Simple Flute
I started out playing a German violin, but since I got my Irish fiddle (made in France) I've never looked back.
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by ...
Re: Changing from Silver to Irish Simple Flute
Irish flute v Boehm flute, the differences in playing the instruments themselves aren't all that great: a few differences in fingering, a somewhat different embouchure.
Much more of an issue is the long list of stylistic differences between somebody raised playing Classical/Baroque music on the flute and somebody raised playing traditional Irish music on the flute. This is just as true for people switching to the traditional Irish style but continuing to play the Boehm flute.
(There are plenty of people who play traditional Irish music in a traditional style on the Boehm or other mechanised flutes, witness Paddy Carty, Joannie Madden, etc.)
I've found over the years that the biggest hurdles are things like tonguing, phrasing, and finger action (Boehm fluteplayers are taught to keep their fingers in "guide position" and move from that position, gently, to the keys to eliminate key noise; but this approach doesn't give anywhere near the finger velocity required to produce the right "pop" to pats etc).
You don't say what your musical background is, and perhaps you already play traditional Irish music in the traditional style. Then it's a very simple matter to switch to the Irish flute.
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by Richard D Cook
Re: Changing from Silver to Irish Simple Flute
Don't think of ít as a move - think of it as adding a new instrument. I went down this path and now play both simple system and Boehm. They both have their place. For ITM, the simple system flute has many advantages, mainly based around the system of ornamentation that has built up to use the direct holes. For everything else, it is a lot simpler to play in different keys on a Boehm flute. Many things work well on both.
The main challenge is however, not the technical difference between the instruments, but rather the learning of the appropriate style on whatever instrument you are going to play.
The advice to concentrate exclusively on the simple system flute for a while is also good. A month or two should be ok. Learn the whistle too, if only because whistles in lots of different keys are cheap and really useful.
Expect Boehm and wooden flutes to require different embouchures to get the best out of them.
And expect that what is considered "right" for one is not necessarily "right" for the other, though it is not necessarily wrong either... A lot depends on the experience of the person asserting the fact. The amount that the fingers are expected to move is one good example of this.
Good breath support is never wrong.
I like Casey Burns' folk flutes for the money. They are not the only option at the cheaper end of the scale, but the only one that I own and use regularly (as my "camp fire" flute.).
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by Crackpot
Re: Changing from Silver to Irish Simple Flute
Back in the 1980s I was playing a Casey Burns flute for a few years. It was keyless, made out of gorgeous flamed Mountain Mahogany, a Pratten style flute with a big sound. I could easily be heard over a blasting accordion on that flute.
I've not played his newer flutes.
Personally I would prefer a wood flute, such as a Casey Burns flute, over a delrin flute, all things being equal. The delrin flutes I've played have been very heavy. But of course a delrin flute won't ever crack! Nearly indestructable, them things.
# Posted on July 15th 2011 by Richard D Cook