I play lots of polkas and slides at my local session, but most of the musicians there are unfamiliar with slides (or they know a few which are played as fast jigs, without the slide rhythm to them), and don't tend to play a lot of polkas well.
I frequently get asked about how to accompany or backup me for these tunes - a bit difficult as I play the fiddle, and know very little of bodhran or guitar or mandolin rhythms.
Any advice I can give them? And, before you mention it, there are not going to want to be told not to play during the slides or polkas. The idea of staying out of tunes is not common.
Why not put together a CD/USB stick with some recordings of slides and polkas by some decent Sliabh Luachra-style players, so they can get more of a feel for the rhythms
Seriously though. The only vice is advice, and there's nothing you can do to make your love and passion for the music resonate in somebody else's mind in the same way that it resonates in your own.
Sliabh Luachra polkas and slides are probably the hardest Irish tunes to play authentically, and absolutely, without doubt, the hardest to accompany. Your relationship with the music of Sliabh Luachra will already have made this clear to you. An accompanist who asks a melody player how they should play their own instrument lacks the effort, passion and dedication required to play it properly, so any advice you give will almost certainly be wasted.
Sliabh Luachra polkas and slides are best on fiddle and accordion, and it takes an exceptional guitarist to accompany them without wrecking them completely, and ironing out the lovely, swelling, rolling, lop-sided rhythms that their melodies create. Your guitarist doesn't sound like they have what it takes. If they can't even be bothered to sit out until they've learned the tunes, or work it out for themselves, they haven't a hope. It's not your job to teach them how to play.
There's no reason why your enjoyment of the tunes that you love should be ruined by somebody who imagines that they can play melodic dance music without learning to play melodic dance music.
Sliabh Luachra polkas and slides are my favourite tunes, and my advice to you is to play them with your mates somewhere they won't be ruined by somebody else's lazy incompetence.
I totaly agree with Smash here that they should learn the tunes
if they'll know the tunes, they should be well able to follow the changes in rhythm paterns especially in slides
with polkas, well you can go wrong with learning the ways of Mr. Cooney I don't think I've heard better backing to a polka than his.
What I've heard of Mr Cooney's backing wouldn't necessarily work for traditional Sliabh Luachra style polkas though. West Kerry polkas don't have the same elasticity as those from Sliabh Luachra and West Limerick. They're somehow more angular, with a more clear emphasis on the first beat, and less of the 'suction' created by the offbeat pulse you find in Sliabh Luachra style polkas.
I was about to mention Steve Cooney, but padre beat me to it. There are plenty of recordings on YouTube, but - they are COMPRESSED! If they really are serious they should put their money where their passion is and pick up at least a couple of decent recordings, which you could recommend, to get their head around the whole thing - listening first!
Unfortunately the norm is that accompanists ruin things, especially polkas and slides, but I've enjoyed some of what Steve does, and there are only a very few I can say that about. For the bodhran the polkas will only lead to RSI. I can think of a number of flash players with a big bag of tricks, but not anyone at the moment that I'd recommend as a good example of polka and slide accompaniment. The very nature of most players to want to show what they can do inevitably conflicts with the basic drive of these tune forms. But, I have heard a few I've enjoyed, but nothing is coming to mind in available recordings. The better player is phrase conscious, and plays out slides with that long 12/8 feel, also true of decent string strumming. The usual mistake of treating them like just another jig ruins the flow...
If you try to do what you do for jigs and reels, only faster (which at first blush sounds like a good idea), you will not only wear out your arm, you will not have the pulse that people are describing above.
Okay, great stuff! It's been challenging learning to play polkas and slides right, with good emphasis, while being backed up by guitarists and bodhran players who don't have the feel for those tunes. Maybe it's helped me articulate the pulse of the tunes because I have to almost exaggerate so those others will get the feel of it.
The CD idea is great! Two things here - first, lack of exposure of the other session goers, which can be easily fixed by giving them the style. Second, it's the desire of other musicians to improve their technique and get the "feel" of the tune- that's hard to judge, but seems less common. I'm assuming that this desire to improve technique is not just something young people do. It's what I've always done, but seems less common around here.
I wish there were other musicians who were great with polkas and slides, but frankly, there's almost no one close by who plays them properly. It's either play them in sessions or play them by myself. How I wish, though!
On a positive note, the polkas have on the whole gotten better - partly because I've learned to play them better and the other session members have been hearing them, 2-5 sets/week for about 2 years.
Ceolachan - what do you mean by reasonable sets? Usually it's 3 polkas or slides in a row I do. For the dancers, do you usually play 1 tune per set, or change the tune? What is the norm, or the "desired norm"? : )
Is it common for slides to be called cute? Or does that mean people just aren't used to them?
Incidentally, one of the bodhran players gave up playing bodhran for the polkas and slides cause it's too fast for him to accompany. And I don't necessarily play them that fast. I found that a relief as the bodhran players style was not even close to Sliabh Luachra.
Smash the Windows- I agree on the concertina! I've just been playing since last summer, and it was the concertina that helped me get the feel for polkas and slides.
enirehtac, where are you located? If there are any set dancing groups nearby that teach Sliabh Luachra and/or other Kerry and Cork sets, seeing or (preferably) dancing some of the polka and slide sets will definitely help sort out backers that need to get the feel for these tune types.
And have the guitar players do some homework. On top of Cooney, get them to look up Tommy O'Sullivan, Paul de Grae, and Jim Murray. Same goes for the bodhran players. And, as has already been established, they need to learn the tunes, no way around that.
The best way to get the feel of the rhythm, whether playing the tune or backing, is to look at the dancers. If a bodhran player thinks it is too fast, he only need watch the feet of the dancers, who seem to manage OK.
eg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEgPwZKHD_U
Many guitar backers accompany polkas the same way as they would accompany reels - totally missing the dottted rhythm, and thus ruining the tune.
The trick is to put in synchopation in the appropriate places. If they don't know the tune, they would need to listen to it once through before joining in.
The Sliabh Notes CDs might also be a useful resource to encourage your backers with. Matt Cranitch, Donal Murphy and the aforementioned Tommy O'Sullivan (plus guests including Steve Cooney on Along Blackwater Banks), look out also for their CD Gleanntan.
Hi enirehtac
we are reading your post and want to help. If the backers feel the tunes are too fast for them then they are backing them wrong. It's an easy rut to get into and at least they want to change. A good starting point for the guitarist and bodhran player is to cut the rhythm in half. This works in their favour in that they are not straining themselves and they have more space to put an emphasis on a particular beat to give the right swing. There is no such thing as playing too fast for a backer because they can cut the beat in half allowing the melody to breath. If you're practising this with them, play the tune up to speed, not slowly as that can make it more difficult for them to get the the idea. Hope this helps.
All the best.
It's the deepest darkest reaches of Danté's hellfire when you get strummers and thumpers not knowing the tunes ... but for them to not even be familiar with the rhythms must be like the very centre, where everything is frozen.
It really gets to me when playing Kerry style polkas etc and a guitar or bodhran player start knocking seven colours out of the instrument before they collapse with exhaustion. I really want to stop and tell them 'Cut your beats or your strums in half, its as simple as that' but deep down I get a certain sadistic kick by playing the tunes with a 'Knocknagree' tempo.
There's a few slides I will attempt and I don't think I make too bad a job of it. If I start with Going to the Well for Water in D the strummers go at it with gusto, but then change to Star above the Garter in D Mixolydian it's a strumming train crash (not all strummers by the way - there are some very good accompanists around).
I've heard some splendid music accompanied by a superb bodhran player who played little more than one or two beats every couple of bars. The art is in getting the appropriate sound from the drum at the right time, with the right emphasis, and PRECISELY in time with the melody. You don't need to flay the bejasus out of it.
Don’t get hung up on what the type of dance or rhythm category the tune is supposed to be in.
Just LISTEN to the melody & groove and simply play!
If you can’t just do that give up playing.
You are not a musician.
the base accompaniment is simple up down, single time (not in that germanic polka double time stuff ) so it's pretty simple.
What makes it ring is all the triplets
"It really gets to me when playing Kerry style polkas etc and a guitar or bodhran player start knocking seven colours out of the instrument before they collapse with exhaustion. I really want to stop and tell them 'Cut your beats or your strums in half, its as simple as that' but deep down I get a certain sadistic kick by playing the tunes with a 'Knocknagree' tempo." Free Reed
Cruel dude, lol. But your quite right and you tell it as it is, right there in that there post.
"Sliabh Luachra polkas and slides are best on fiddle and accordion, and it takes an exceptional guitarist to accompany them without wrecking them completely, and ironing out the lovely, swelling, rolling, lop-sided rhythms that their melodies create..." (Smash The Windows)
I love that final summary of their nature. Playing them can be like trying to play a buttered otter. I can concur with their suitability for fiddle and box, you can help them along with sustained chords of this, that or the other kind.
"Playing them can be like trying to play a buttered otter."
This is brilliant, and completely true. I have a few slides, but I mostly stay away from them because unless you get them just exactly right, you get them just exactly wrong.
I definitely don't play guitar or bouzouki on them - I'd much rather listen to a good set of Kerry music than make a hash of it.
Leave out the notes that don't fit. The ones left are the ideal accompaniment.
Less is more.
Like the buttered otter. But with claret ? Surely a light Moselle ? Or a Merlot ? And which vegetables ? And which icecream to follow ? I favour the pistachio and maple walnut myself.
Thanks all, great medicine. I've enjoyed following the madness here, and twisted sense...
Cathering, 3 is fine, 4 would be a maximum, but actually, for many polka and slide figures, there's often only enough time for one tune at a time, and that works beautifully. Someone suggested taking up dance, yes, if you can get a decent teacher who hasn't fallen for all the brooha of the modern tsunami of interest that crashed through and rolled over everything in the 80s ~ speed, speed, speed - and yes, it KILLS! - it NUMBS! it - it RUINS the joy in it all. I well remember certain famous Sliabh Luachra musicians who in their own words were fed up with the rush and push of it. One, Johnny O'Leary, would sometimes retire to a game of cards away from the throng, when in Dan O'Connell's pub it would swell up with more folks from the big cities of Ireland than locals - from Dublin & Cork in particular. Johnny wasn't alone in feeling a discomfort about it all.
Session playing has had its negative imact on slides and polkas too, slammed out and trampled in the rush...
Someone mentioned the diatonic option, anglo concertinas and other squeezeboxes, not forgetting single row melodeons. That need to change direction adds a special extra lift in the right hands, as too can the changes taken by someone with understanding behind their bow.
Another instrument for which polkas and slides can pose a great challenge is the uilleann pipes...
There is a really great documentary on the music of Sliabh Luachra on the TG4 at the moment.
www.tg4.tv
CANÚINTÍ CEOIL
Take the episode on the right from 08.06
It has lots of examples of the tunes and explanations of the rythms....I intend ot watch it again. (no worries re the language also it's fully subtitled.
Great stuff and lots of laughs! Actually I know a great young piper who is great at slides, but of course he's a phenomenal musician, I'll have to look and see how he does them.
That's the great thing about playing slides here - since almost no one else plays them, no one to bash the life out of them, and I can play them without bashing them out. Fun! I'll take a look at the documentary - sounds great.
I agree - slides take a lot of effort to learn to play properly - after 3 years of working on them, I'm finally getting them down sort of decently.
Yes about that documentary, it's lovely... I believe it is also available on YouTube, or used to be... Enjoy, as I know you will...
I love them on the pipes too, so it is always good to hear that a piper has given them time and consideration... Slides are, in my sense of it, easier to carry on the pipes than polkas...
Thank you for posting that link, wonderful stuff. A lot of my faves in it, and great commentary about the dancing and the music being rather hard to separate (despite the best efforts of many musicians nowadays).
I loved Mr. Cronin's observations at 6:50 - all too true, I fear, but it made me think of my USMC veteran grandfather grumbling about the "old Corps, they just build Marines the same these days".
Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Hi,
The idea of staying out of tunes is not common.
I play lots of polkas and slides at my local session, but most of the musicians there are unfamiliar with slides (or they know a few which are played as fast jigs, without the slide rhythm to them), and don't tend to play a lot of polkas well.
I frequently get asked about how to accompany or backup me for these tunes - a bit difficult as I play the fiddle, and know very little of bodhran or guitar or mandolin rhythms.
Any advice I can give them? And, before you mention it, there are not going to want to be told not to play during the slides or polkas.
# Posted on July 11th 2011 by enirehtac
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Why not put together a CD/USB stick with some recordings of slides and polkas by some decent Sliabh Luachra-style players, so they can get more of a feel for the rhythms
# Posted on July 11th 2011 by Pat Mustard
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
* and obviously, give the CD to the musicians at your session...
# Posted on July 11th 2011 by Pat Mustard
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Any advice I can give them?
'Learn the tunes.'
# Posted on July 11th 2011 by Dragut Reis
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
"I play lots of polkas and slides at my local session ..."
Proper order!
Sounds like my kind of Session!
Cheers
Dick
# Posted on July 11th 2011 by Ptarmigan
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Seriously though. The only vice is advice, and there's nothing you can do to make your love and passion for the music resonate in somebody else's mind in the same way that it resonates in your own.
Sliabh Luachra polkas and slides are probably the hardest Irish tunes to play authentically, and absolutely, without doubt, the hardest to accompany. Your relationship with the music of Sliabh Luachra will already have made this clear to you. An accompanist who asks a melody player how they should play their own instrument lacks the effort, passion and dedication required to play it properly, so any advice you give will almost certainly be wasted.
Sliabh Luachra polkas and slides are best on fiddle and accordion, and it takes an exceptional guitarist to accompany them without wrecking them completely, and ironing out the lovely, swelling, rolling, lop-sided rhythms that their melodies create. Your guitarist doesn't sound like they have what it takes. If they can't even be bothered to sit out until they've learned the tunes, or work it out for themselves, they haven't a hope. It's not your job to teach them how to play.
There's no reason why your enjoyment of the tunes that you love should be ruined by somebody who imagines that they can play melodic dance music without learning to play melodic dance music.
Sliabh Luachra polkas and slides are my favourite tunes, and my advice to you is to play them with your mates somewhere they won't be ruined by somebody else's lazy incompetence.
# Posted on July 11th 2011 by Dragut Reis
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
'Sliabh Luachra slides and polkas are best on fiddle and accordion'
Or concertina, of course.
# Posted on July 11th 2011 by Dragut Reis
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
I totaly agree with Smash here that they should learn the tunes
if they'll know the tunes, they should be well able to follow the changes in rhythm paterns especially in slides
with polkas, well you can go wrong with learning the ways of Mr. Cooney I don't think I've heard better backing to a polka than his.
# Posted on July 11th 2011 by padre
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
What I've heard of Mr Cooney's backing wouldn't necessarily work for traditional Sliabh Luachra style polkas though. West Kerry polkas don't have the same elasticity as those from Sliabh Luachra and West Limerick. They're somehow more angular, with a more clear emphasis on the first beat, and less of the 'suction' created by the offbeat pulse you find in Sliabh Luachra style polkas.
# Posted on July 11th 2011 by Dragut Reis
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
I was about to mention Steve Cooney, but padre beat me to it. There are plenty of recordings on YouTube, but - they are COMPRESSED! If they really are serious they should put their money where their passion is and pick up at least a couple of decent recordings, which you could recommend, to get their head around the whole thing - listening first!
Unfortunately the norm is that accompanists ruin things, especially polkas and slides, but I've enjoyed some of what Steve does, and there are only a very few I can say that about. For the bodhran the polkas will only lead to RSI. I can think of a number of flash players with a big bag of tricks, but not anyone at the moment that I'd recommend as a good example of polka and slide accompaniment. The very nature of most players to want to show what they can do inevitably conflicts with the basic drive of these tune forms. But, I have heard a few I've enjoyed, but nothing is coming to mind in available recordings. The better player is phrase conscious, and plays out slides with that long 12/8 feel, also true of decent string strumming. The usual mistake of treating them like just another jig ruins the flow...
# Posted on July 11th 2011 by ceolachan
& what 'Smash' has said....
# Posted on July 11th 2011 by ceolachan
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
It's a strange question. It's basically saying, "What can I do? The people I play with are rubbish?" How do you answer that?
# Posted on July 11th 2011 by ...
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
When you put it like that the answer is obvious.
# Posted on July 11th 2011 by Batgirl has left the GPL ;)
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Easy.
'Stop playing with people who are rubbish.'
# Posted on July 11th 2011 by Dragut Reis
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
& p-l-e-a-s-e - - - keep the sets reasonable. Long drawn out multi-tune monstrosities give the forms a bad name.
At least if they are speaking about it and asking Catherine for guidance there is hope...
# Posted on July 11th 2011 by ceolachan
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Try these, hope it helps
http://hw.libsyn.com/p/0/e/3/0e3d5618016a2dc7/EchoesOfKillarney.mp3?sid=489feda061e6c26f8298d5e2a0321dcc&l_sid=23920&l_eid=&l_mid=2161876
and playing a polka:
http://hw.libsyn.com/p/7/d/0/7d0227ff76aad6a6/Forty_Pound_Float.mp3?sid=d62c60b06ceb5a0187c77f68d1099092&l_sid=23920&l_eid=&l_mid=2161816
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by Tony O'Rourke
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
If you try to do what you do for jigs and reels, only faster (which at first blush sounds like a good idea), you will not only wear out your arm, you will not have the pulse that people are describing above.
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Okay, great stuff! It's been challenging learning to play polkas and slides right, with good emphasis, while being backed up by guitarists and bodhran players who don't have the feel for those tunes. Maybe it's helped me articulate the pulse of the tunes because I have to almost exaggerate so those others will get the feel of it.
The CD idea is great! Two things here - first, lack of exposure of the other session goers, which can be easily fixed by giving them the style. Second, it's the desire of other musicians to improve their technique and get the "feel" of the tune- that's hard to judge, but seems less common. I'm assuming that this desire to improve technique is not just something young people do. It's what I've always done, but seems less common around here.
I wish there were other musicians who were great with polkas and slides, but frankly, there's almost no one close by who plays them properly. It's either play them in sessions or play them by myself. How I wish, though!
On a positive note, the polkas have on the whole gotten better - partly because I've learned to play them better and the other session members have been hearing them, 2-5 sets/week for about 2 years.
Ceolachan - what do you mean by reasonable sets? Usually it's 3 polkas or slides in a row I do. For the dancers, do you usually play 1 tune per set, or change the tune? What is the norm, or the "desired norm"? : )
Is it common for slides to be called cute? Or does that mean people just aren't used to them?
Incidentally, one of the bodhran players gave up playing bodhran for the polkas and slides cause it's too fast for him to accompany. And I don't necessarily play them that fast. I found that a relief as the bodhran players style was not even close to Sliabh Luachra.
Smash the Windows- I agree on the concertina! I've just been playing since last summer, and it was the concertina that helped me get the feel for polkas and slides.
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by enirehtac
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Losing the bodhran player when you play polkas? All the more reason to polka, polka, polka!
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
enirehtac, where are you located? If there are any set dancing groups nearby that teach Sliabh Luachra and/or other Kerry and Cork sets, seeing or (preferably) dancing some of the polka and slide sets will definitely help sort out backers that need to get the feel for these tune types.
And have the guitar players do some homework. On top of Cooney, get them to look up Tommy O'Sullivan, Paul de Grae, and Jim Murray. Same goes for the bodhran players. And, as has already been established, they need to learn the tunes, no way around that.
To that effect:
Seamus Creagh's tunes for practice:
http://tunesforpractice.com/
Matt Cranitch's Irish Fiddle Book CD:
http://celticgrooves.homestead.com/cg_book_cranitch_fiddle.html
And all the classic recordings, of course.
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by dr_funkenstein
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
The best way to get the feel of the rhythm, whether playing the tune or backing, is to look at the dancers. If a bodhran player thinks it is too fast, he only need watch the feet of the dancers, who seem to manage OK.
eg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEgPwZKHD_U
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by gam
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Many guitar backers accompany polkas the same way as they would accompany reels - totally missing the dottted rhythm, and thus ruining the tune.
The trick is to put in synchopation in the appropriate places. If they don't know the tune, they would need to listen to it once through before joining in.
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Only prostitutes have tricks.
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by Dragut Reis
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
What about ponies?
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
... and how would YOU know, BTW ?
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
The Sliabh Notes CDs might also be a useful resource to encourage your backers with. Matt Cranitch, Donal Murphy and the aforementioned Tommy O'Sullivan (plus guests including Steve Cooney on Along Blackwater Banks), look out also for their CD Gleanntan.
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by stoneboy2
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Hi enirehtac
we are reading your post and want to help. If the backers feel the tunes are too fast for them then they are backing them wrong. It's an easy rut to get into and at least they want to change. A good starting point for the guitarist and bodhran player is to cut the rhythm in half. This works in their favour in that they are not straining themselves and they have more space to put an emphasis on a particular beat to give the right swing. There is no such thing as playing too fast for a backer because they can cut the beat in half allowing the melody to breath. If you're practising this with them, play the tune up to speed, not slowly as that can make it more difficult for them to get the the idea. Hope this helps.
All the best.
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by dulahan
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
It's the deepest darkest reaches of Danté's hellfire when you get strummers and thumpers not knowing the tunes ... but for them to not even be familiar with the rhythms must be like the very centre, where everything is frozen.
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by ...
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
It really gets to me when playing Kerry style polkas etc and a guitar or bodhran player start knocking seven colours out of the instrument before they collapse with exhaustion. I really want to stop and tell them 'Cut your beats or your strums in half, its as simple as that' but deep down I get a certain sadistic kick by playing the tunes with a 'Knocknagree' tempo.
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by Free Reed
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
There's a few slides I will attempt and I don't think I make too bad a job of it. If I start with Going to the Well for Water in D the strummers go at it with gusto, but then change to Star above the Garter in D Mixolydian it's a strumming train crash (not all strummers by the way - there are some very good accompanists around).
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by RichardB
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
I've heard some splendid music accompanied by a superb bodhran player who played little more than one or two beats every couple of bars. The art is in getting the appropriate sound from the drum at the right time, with the right emphasis, and PRECISELY in time with the melody. You don't need to flay the bejasus out of it.
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by gam
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
I love sitting in the corner of a pub playing slides on fiddle, with a mate on accordion. Heaven.
Hell is a choice.
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by Dragut Reis
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Don’t get hung up on what the type of dance or rhythm category the tune is supposed to be in.
Just LISTEN to the melody & groove and simply play!
If you can’t just do that give up playing.
You are not a musician.
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
speaking of Steve, found this. That's the rock'n roll of irish music ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VGwMnppEOQ
the base accompaniment is simple up down, single time (not in that germanic polka double time stuff ) so it's pretty simple.
What makes it ring is all the triplets
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by olonguet
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
"It really gets to me when playing Kerry style polkas etc and a guitar or bodhran player start knocking seven colours out of the instrument before they collapse with exhaustion. I really want to stop and tell them 'Cut your beats or your strums in half, its as simple as that' but deep down I get a certain sadistic kick by playing the tunes with a 'Knocknagree' tempo." Free Reed
Cruel dude, lol. But your quite right and you tell it as it is, right there in that there post.
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
..
(there was a bodhran player we used to do that too)
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by ...
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
"Sliabh Luachra polkas and slides are best on fiddle and accordion, and it takes an exceptional guitarist to accompany them without wrecking them completely, and ironing out the lovely, swelling, rolling, lop-sided rhythms that their melodies create..." (Smash The Windows)
I love that final summary of their nature. Playing them can be like trying to play a buttered otter. I can concur with their suitability for fiddle and box, you can help them along with sustained chords of this, that or the other kind.
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by nicholas
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
"Playing them can be like trying to play a buttered otter."
This is brilliant, and completely true. I have a few slides, but I mostly stay away from them because unless you get them just exactly right, you get them just exactly wrong.
I definitely don't play guitar or bouzouki on them - I'd much rather listen to a good set of Kerry music than make a hash of it.
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
'Playing them can be like trying to play a buttered otter.'
Hahahaha!
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by Dragut Reis
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Definately "Quote of the Week" !!
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by domhnall.
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Of course you should be eating a buttered otter, not trying to play it. Very nice with a drop of claret.
Best analogy I've heard yet for how the box jumps around on a beginner's knee. It's going on my plagiarism list.
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by millionyears_bc
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Colm Murphy has been good at it for years with Martin O'connor,,, See Link's -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PpftOwglAA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxCTaoZ3Mjk
jim,,,
# Posted on July 12th 2011 by FIDDLE4
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Leave out the notes that don't fit. The ones left are the ideal accompaniment.
Less is more.
Like the buttered otter. But with claret ? Surely a light Moselle ? Or a Merlot ? And which vegetables ? And which icecream to follow ? I favour the pistachio and maple walnut myself.
# Posted on July 13th 2011 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Thanks all, great medicine. I've enjoyed following the madness here, and twisted sense...
Cathering, 3 is fine, 4 would be a maximum, but actually, for many polka and slide figures, there's often only enough time for one tune at a time, and that works beautifully. Someone suggested taking up dance, yes, if you can get a decent teacher who hasn't fallen for all the brooha of the modern tsunami of interest that crashed through and rolled over everything in the 80s ~ speed, speed, speed - and yes, it KILLS! - it NUMBS! it - it RUINS the joy in it all. I well remember certain famous Sliabh Luachra musicians who in their own words were fed up with the rush and push of it. One, Johnny O'Leary, would sometimes retire to a game of cards away from the throng, when in Dan O'Connell's pub it would swell up with more folks from the big cities of Ireland than locals - from Dublin & Cork in particular. Johnny wasn't alone in feeling a discomfort about it all.
Session playing has had its negative imact on slides and polkas too, slammed out and trampled in the rush...
Someone mentioned the diatonic option, anglo concertinas and other squeezeboxes, not forgetting single row melodeons. That need to change direction adds a special extra lift in the right hands, as too can the changes taken by someone with understanding behind their bow.
Another instrument for which polkas and slides can pose a great challenge is the uilleann pipes...
# Posted on July 13th 2011 by ceolachan
Sorry about the 'Cathering' Catherine, it's late and we're just in from music and dance, and something to wet our whistles...
# Posted on July 13th 2011 by ceolachan
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
"Playing them can be like trying to play a buttered otter."
Bravo!!
BTW: Author?
(I like giving credit where it is due - is that your own, nicholas, or are you quoting?)
Slicker than a cup o' custard, sir.
# Posted on July 13th 2011 by Piece
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
learn to dance .
Its that simple ............
# Posted on July 13th 2011 by bazouki dave
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
There is a really great documentary on the music of Sliabh Luachra on the TG4 at the moment.
www.tg4.tv
CANÚINTÍ CEOIL
Take the episode on the right from 08.06
It has lots of examples of the tunes and explanations of the rythms....I intend ot watch it again. (no worries re the language also it's fully subtitled.
# Posted on July 13th 2011 by del_c
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Great stuff and lots of laughs! Actually I know a great young piper who is great at slides, but of course he's a phenomenal musician, I'll have to look and see how he does them.
That's the great thing about playing slides here - since almost no one else plays them, no one to bash the life out of them, and I can play them without bashing them out. Fun! I'll take a look at the documentary - sounds great.
I agree - slides take a lot of effort to learn to play properly - after 3 years of working on them, I'm finally getting them down sort of decently.
# Posted on July 13th 2011 by enirehtac
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
@del_c - can't find the right episode of Canúintí Ceoil. it seems to only go back to 15.06. can you post a link, please??
# Posted on July 13th 2011 by pipewatcher
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Yes about that documentary, it's lovely... I believe it is also available on YouTube, or used to be... Enjoy, as I know you will...
I love them on the pipes too, so it is always good to hear that a piper has given them time and consideration... Slides are, in my sense of it, easier to carry on the pipes than polkas...
# Posted on July 13th 2011 by ceolachan
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
thanks for the tip, ceolachan! also , I heartily agree- slides go well on the pipes, polkas, not so much.
# Posted on July 13th 2011 by pipewatcher
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Episode 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTPCXukpYNE
# Posted on July 13th 2011 by Dragut Reis
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
ballix, was looking to watch it again myself this eveining, and they seem to have taken it down today.
it's on youtube though....poor enough quality unfortunately
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIb_c4LbvR8
# Posted on July 13th 2011 by del_c
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
where are you from?? go to sliabh luachra and you'll find guitar players along with other musicians that will be happy to show you what to do...
# Posted on July 13th 2011 by mise
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Even some of those strummers born to the area are more in the way than complementary ...
I'm being kind by avoiding my want to say 'most', and by not naming any recorded examples...
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by ceolachan
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Smash:
Thank you for posting that link, wonderful stuff. A lot of my faves in it, and great commentary about the dancing and the music being rather hard to separate (despite the best efforts of many musicians nowadays).
I loved Mr. Cronin's observations at 6:50 - all too true, I fear, but it made me think of my USMC veteran grandfather grumbling about the "old Corps, they just build Marines the same these days".
LOL
Thank you again.
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by Piece
Re: Accompaniment for Slides and Polkas
Sorry:
Should read:
"they just DON'T build Marines the same these days"
# Posted on July 14th 2011 by Piece