Im a mandolin player. I play traditional and i accompany guitars and singers.
Sometimes i think my mandolin cannot be heard in a packed pub.
So i wonder if i was to get a bouzouki would this increase the volume against the guitar?
I have an oppurtunity to buy a Gibson mandolin. Which is something i wanted for a long time but i have also been told to go for a Joe Foley Bouzouki.
What should i Do???
This is a tough one.
You have both what your heart desires, and also some advice from those who can hear your best efforts, and appreciate aspects of your performance you cannot evaluate yourself.
Which type of Gibson mandolin ? I wouldn't go for an F-model myself but that's a personal prejudice.
On the other hand I'm a bouzouki player, so I'd go for the 'zouk.
As to the perceived acoustics; sometimes what you think is inaudible can be heard well some way away. Ask someone else to walk round the pub and listen to you in the general mix. You might be surprised.
"As to the perceived acoustics; sometimes what you think is inaudible can be heard well some way away. Ask someone else to walk round the pub and listen to you in the general mix. You might be surprised." Guernsey Pete
I you want top play the tunes stick with the mandolin, shop around some mandolins are really loud and and would be fine in a pub session.
If you want to mainly do accompaniment get a bouzouki as its better, although saying that the mandolin can sound really nice accompaning esp if there is already a guitar playing.
Joe Foley Mandolas and Bouzuoki's are amazing but his mandolin's while they can look amazing I think my £250 Ozark gives the Foley a run for its money both in quality of tone, playablity and volume.
Dont rush into anything take your time and see what you want the most and whats gonna work the best for you and your session/band.
It is an F-model im going for as my brother has an A-model, and he wouldn be happy if i bought the same as him.
Im being told that a good quality Gibson mandolin will be heard over any session so in away it kills to birds with on stone.
Out of interest how much is a good Joe Foley zouk??
I think with mandolins you have to try before you buy, the name on the head stock is no guarantee of sweetness or volume. Also technique has a lot to do with generating both tone and volume. So until you get the hang of it I wouldn't jump in at the deep end with a high end mando.
Come on guys need a straight answer. Forget about loudness, as a general instrument for accompanying a guitar or banjo.
Would you go for a Mandolin or Bouzouki??
Mandolin, Contact Anthony Black, tyne and wear, he makes superb and loud mandolins, pm me for his contact number, but if you still want the Gibson, BUY IT.
There is no straight answer. Zouk if you want to accompany and you don't have to compete with guitar for frequency space. Mandolin, if you want to play tunes.
I dont really play tunes on the mandolin, i play alot of chord structures sound lovely to accompany the guitar.
but because i do this should i go for the bouzouki?
Sorry, I'm afraid I just don't understand the problem here!
Personally speaking, I've always started learning to play an instrument because I was drawn to the sound it made & overcome with an overwhelming desire to play my music with that sound. So for me, this would simply be down to which one I liked the sound of.
Quite honestly I'd be very suspicious of anyone's motives & their musical integrity, if they chose an instrument simply because it was either louder e.g. Banjo, Accordion, Bodhran, or because it was seen as somehow being more cool & legit. e.g. Fiddle, Flute or Uilleann Pipes!
I've no doubt there are some misguided souls / posers, out there, who choose their instrument like this, but I'm also convinced that most folk here choose it, because it speaks to them & they are able to play the music they like on it.
So I'd say, be true to yourself & go with your heart .... & your ear.
Of course, if you just want to make a noise ... go play Rock & Roll!
By the way, if it was me, I go for the F-model Gibson Mandolin.
Mandolin is what i play and what i love.
I was just told that the style i play with the mandolin would be more suited to a bouzouki,
But its that mandolin sound i love!
I can't see it as I don't facebook, sorry. I'm limited to a few interest sites like this through choice. Still looks are only looks, I'd still want to hear it and play it first.
Will you get a chance to try the zouk first? Some have really long necks and are quite a stretch for the left hand.
Whatever instrument brings out the best in you as a player is the one.
I'm intrigued by the idea of accompanying a guitar on the mandolin - it's usually the other way about.
But if you are wanting to play with a guitar, then the bouzouki is a bad choice - because they both play in the same range, the sounds of the two instruments get tangled up together and turn to mud. The mandoin plays an octave up, so it stays distinct from the guitar and can usually be heard quite clearly, even if it isn't all that loud.
The Gibson can be a great mandolin - any model. But you need to try it out before you buy, if you can. They're not all great. As in anything, some are better than others. Acoustic Centre, in Brighton, Sussex, is a good source for mandolins. An excellent maker is Dave Gregory who lives in York. In fact, Dave is the best I know. Not as pricey as some. I switched from a Vanden to a Gregory a few years back. No regrets.
Seeing that it's a Model A, to be honest, I'd be surprised if it will ever carry well in a large, noisy session.
Of course, if like me, you are lucky enough to enjoy some quieter sessions too, she would then get a chance to shine.
So, given that you already play a Mandolin, if it were me, I certainly wouldn't be up for splashing a load of cash on the Gibson without first playing it & hearing others play it & so get a good chance to compare it with the one you already have. I've no doubt it'll be very sweet sounding, but from what you say you need, that just may not be enough!
Well, I've a great respect for Jim Younger's ear; and his fingers; he does some fine accompaniment and tune-playing.
What I would suggest, whichever instrument you acquire, is to take a look at Red Henry's work on mandolin-type instrument bridges. he has evolved a whole new style of bridge-making which can vastly improve even already fine-sounding instruments, certainly to make them louder, and improve the tonal response too.
If your main goal is accompaniment, then I would recommend the bouzouki. To be able to be heard on mandolin, I've noticed that people are often trying to overplay the instrument, and that can give it a tinny, rather annoying sound. (Or it could just be that the majority of mandolin accompaniment I've been around was people using it to do a boom-chuck style of rhythm, like bluegrass, and nothing is more annoying that someone stomping on the lift of the music with off-beat chucking... So I might just be biased)
And I can see how some people might think that bouzouki and guitar would blend a bit too much, since they're in the same tonal and octave range, but they're really different instruments. If you're just strumming the bouzouki like a guitar, you might as well play guitar.
If you look at the trad bands out there, I don't see too many that have any accompaniment on mandolin. Brian McDonagh has a nice mandola thing going on with Dervish. But it's fairly common to see both bouzouki and guitar playing at the same time, and you're able to pick out the distinct sound of each instrument.
Have you actually played a bouzouki? I would strongly recommend trying one before you make a decision. As primrose lass says, it is a quite different animal.
Someone is currently selling a Stefan Sobell Octave Mandolin ( what some people call an octave mandola ) on ebay. It counts as an early one for Stefan, relatively unplayed, reasonably priced I thought, for that instrument ( so far ).
Personally I'd want the longer scale bouzouki, if there was a choice, but there's neither an instrument available, nor any disposable cash, to make that happen for me.
Mandolin or Bouzouki
Mandolin or Bouzouki
Hi there,
Im a mandolin player. I play traditional and i accompany guitars and singers.
Sometimes i think my mandolin cannot be heard in a packed pub.
So i wonder if i was to get a bouzouki would this increase the volume against the guitar?
I have an oppurtunity to buy a Gibson mandolin. Which is something i wanted for a long time but i have also been told to go for a Joe Foley Bouzouki.
What should i Do???
regards
Pat
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by PMK1988
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
Get the Gibson mandolin.
Or if you simply want to sign up to the decibel arms race, get a bloody banjo.
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by ...
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
Sound advice there llig
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
the banjo bit I mean
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
No not going down the Banjo route, as we already have a banjo player in my group
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by PMK1988
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
This is a tough one.
You have both what your heart desires, and also some advice from those who can hear your best efforts, and appreciate aspects of your performance you cannot evaluate yourself.
Which type of Gibson mandolin ? I wouldn't go for an F-model myself but that's a personal prejudice.
On the other hand I'm a bouzouki player, so I'd go for the 'zouk.
As to the perceived acoustics; sometimes what you think is inaudible can be heard well some way away. Ask someone else to walk round the pub and listen to you in the general mix. You might be surprised.
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
"As to the perceived acoustics; sometimes what you think is inaudible can be heard well some way away. Ask someone else to walk round the pub and listen to you in the general mix. You might be surprised." Guernsey Pete
Thats often the case Pete.
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
I you want top play the tunes stick with the mandolin, shop around some mandolins are really loud and and would be fine in a pub session.
If you want to mainly do accompaniment get a bouzouki as its better, although saying that the mandolin can sound really nice accompaning esp if there is already a guitar playing.
Joe Foley Mandolas and Bouzuoki's are amazing but his mandolin's while they can look amazing I think my £250 Ozark gives the Foley a run for its money both in quality of tone, playablity and volume.
Dont rush into anything take your time and see what you want the most and whats gonna work the best for you and your session/band.
Good Luck
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Kess
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
You're right about the mandoline not always being able to be heard in a pub but in a quieter setting it can sound wonderful as this clip illustrates:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8azZ0o1oI8&feature=related
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Tony O'Rourke
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
Or get a PA instead;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeZGpRMJb44
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
It is an F-model im going for as my brother has an A-model, and he wouldn be happy if i bought the same as him.
Im being told that a good quality Gibson mandolin will be heard over any session so in away it kills to birds with on stone.
Out of interest how much is a good Joe Foley zouk??
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by PMK1988
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
I think with mandolins you have to try before you buy, the name on the head stock is no guarantee of sweetness or volume. Also technique has a lot to do with generating both tone and volume. So until you get the hang of it I wouldn't jump in at the deep end with a high end mando.
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
Come on guys need a straight answer. Forget about loudness, as a general instrument for accompanying a guitar or banjo.
Would you go for a Mandolin or Bouzouki??
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by PMK1988
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
Your question was about volume so why are you not happy with the replies?
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Dr. Dow
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
Mandolin, Contact Anthony Black, tyne and wear, he makes superb and loud mandolins, pm me for his contact number, but if you still want the Gibson, BUY IT.
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Nicholas Jelinek
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
PMK1988
There is no straight answer. Zouk if you want to accompany and you don't have to compete with guitar for frequency space. Mandolin, if you want to play tunes.
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
Yes i know, but just generally, what would you go for, Mandolin or Bouzouki?
Nicholas i like your thinking
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by PMK1988
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
I dont really play tunes on the mandolin, i play alot of chord structures sound lovely to accompany the guitar.
but because i do this should i go for the bouzouki?
I love the Gibson mandolin though!!!!
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by PMK1988
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
Sorry, I'm afraid I just don't understand the problem here!
Personally speaking, I've always started learning to play an instrument because I was drawn to the sound it made & overcome with an overwhelming desire to play my music with that sound. So for me, this would simply be down to which one I liked the sound of.
Quite honestly I'd be very suspicious of anyone's motives & their musical integrity, if they chose an instrument simply because it was either louder e.g. Banjo, Accordion, Bodhran, or because it was seen as somehow being more cool & legit. e.g. Fiddle, Flute or Uilleann Pipes!
I've no doubt there are some misguided souls / posers, out there, who choose their instrument like this, but I'm also convinced that most folk here choose it, because it speaks to them & they are able to play the music they like on it.
So I'd say, be true to yourself & go with your heart .... & your ear.
Of course, if you just want to make a noise ... go play Rock & Roll!
By the way, if it was me, I go for the F-model Gibson Mandolin.
Cheers
Dick
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Ptarmigan
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
If you want to play the trad, get the Gibson.
If you want to play accompaniment, get the Bouzouki.
If it was me, I'd get the Gibson.
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Patrick Murray
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
Mandolin is what i play and what i love.
I was just told that the style i play with the mandolin would be more suited to a bouzouki,
But its that mandolin sound i love!
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by PMK1988
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
@ PMK1988
I think you've answered your question fairly well!
But why an F model?!
They smell like bluegrass if you ask me!! :-o
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Mattias Holm
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
"Yes i know, but just generally, what would you go for, Mandolin or Bouzouki?" PMK1988
I'd go for the mandolin myself, with the caveat of trying it first and I'd also want the opportunity of A/B ing it with a few others.
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
It is the mandolin in this picture
http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=100799083276452&set=a.150452888311071.26428.100000390837061&type=1&theater
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by PMK1988
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
I can't see it as I don't facebook, sorry. I'm limited to a few interest sites like this through choice. Still looks are only looks, I'd still want to hear it and play it first.
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
Bouzouki. The one true path. You can still play tunes on it, what ever anyone says.
Joe's bouzouki's are brilliant.
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Sugarfoot Jack
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
Will you get a chance to try the zouk first? Some have really long necks and are quite a stretch for the left hand.
Whatever instrument brings out the best in you as a player is the one.
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by primrose lass
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
I'm intrigued by the idea of accompanying a guitar on the mandolin - it's usually the other way about.
But if you are wanting to play with a guitar, then the bouzouki is a bad choice - because they both play in the same range, the sounds of the two instruments get tangled up together and turn to mud. The mandoin plays an octave up, so it stays distinct from the guitar and can usually be heard quite clearly, even if it isn't all that loud.
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by skreech
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
http://www.mcneillsmusic.ie/gibsonmandolinA.html
Check it out Guys, this is how it looks, Its actually a model A Gibson.
skreech
I have the exact same feeling with the zouk, it is not as distinctive over the guitar as the mandolin is.
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by PMK1988
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
The Gibson can be a great mandolin - any model. But you need to try it out before you buy, if you can. They're not all great. As in anything, some are better than others. Acoustic Centre, in Brighton, Sussex, is a good source for mandolins. An excellent maker is Dave Gregory who lives in York. In fact, Dave is the best I know. Not as pricey as some. I switched from a Vanden to a Gregory a few years back. No regrets.
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Jim Younger
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
PMK, is that the Mcneils that is owned by Stephen Chambers in Clare, he has a good reputation
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Nicholas Jelinek
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
No, I see it's the Dublin shop, different organisation
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Nicholas Jelinek
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
Seeing that it's a Model A, to be honest, I'd be surprised if it will ever carry well in a large, noisy session.
Of course, if like me, you are lucky enough to enjoy some quieter sessions too, she would then get a chance to shine.
So, given that you already play a Mandolin, if it were me, I certainly wouldn't be up for splashing a load of cash on the Gibson without first playing it & hearing others play it & so get a good chance to compare it with the one you already have. I've no doubt it'll be very sweet sounding, but from what you say you need, that just may not be enough!
Cheers
Dick
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Ptarmigan
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
Well, I've a great respect for Jim Younger's ear; and his fingers; he does some fine accompaniment and tune-playing.
What I would suggest, whichever instrument you acquire, is to take a look at Red Henry's work on mandolin-type instrument bridges. he has evolved a whole new style of bridge-making which can vastly improve even already fine-sounding instruments, certainly to make them louder, and improve the tonal response too.
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
I'd buy both.
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by NEW Pure Drop® Ear Canal Oil
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
If your main goal is accompaniment, then I would recommend the bouzouki. To be able to be heard on mandolin, I've noticed that people are often trying to overplay the instrument, and that can give it a tinny, rather annoying sound. (Or it could just be that the majority of mandolin accompaniment I've been around was people using it to do a boom-chuck style of rhythm, like bluegrass, and nothing is more annoying that someone stomping on the lift of the music with off-beat chucking... So I might just be biased)
And I can see how some people might think that bouzouki and guitar would blend a bit too much, since they're in the same tonal and octave range, but they're really different instruments. If you're just strumming the bouzouki like a guitar, you might as well play guitar.
If you look at the trad bands out there, I don't see too many that have any accompaniment on mandolin. Brian McDonagh has a nice mandola thing going on with Dervish. But it's fairly common to see both bouzouki and guitar playing at the same time, and you're able to pick out the distinct sound of each instrument.
# Posted on June 22nd 2011 by Reverend
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
Have you actually played a bouzouki? I would strongly recommend trying one before you make a decision. As primrose lass says, it is a quite different animal.
# Posted on June 23rd 2011 by gam
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
If you're playing bouzouki with a guitar capo 'er up and it can work a treat.
# Posted on June 23rd 2011 by Sugarfoot Jack
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
Yeah can you not just put a capo on the bouzouki to get the same octave as the mandolin????
honestly my style is chord stuctures and rythem. Sounds like a bouzouki is more for me
Im seriously thinking of buying a Joe Foley
Do you know of anywhere in Ireland where i can get one?
# Posted on June 23rd 2011 by PMK1988
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
Watch this first:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQWLA2GHfO8
# Posted on June 23rd 2011 by ...
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
Aye, Llig, that's comical. Mr Moynihan has always been renowned for his wit - not always as blunt as this example, though.
# Posted on June 23rd 2011 by Jim Younger
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
Ah, but it's an honour to be called a phuker by the man himself.
# Posted on June 24th 2011 by Sugarfoot Jack
Re: Mandolin or Bouzouki
Someone is currently selling a Stefan Sobell Octave Mandolin ( what some people call an octave mandola ) on ebay. It counts as an early one for Stefan, relatively unplayed, reasonably priced I thought, for that instrument ( so far ).
Personally I'd want the longer scale bouzouki, if there was a choice, but there's neither an instrument available, nor any disposable cash, to make that happen for me.
# Posted on June 25th 2011 by Guernsey Pete