One of our regular fiddle players tonight decided to bring down list of tunes, all of which were well known to him, and asked someone to pick out one of them at random (dart board fashion)...
To my amazement and horror, the chosen tune turned out to be "The Irish Washerwoman", which to my knowledge has never been (intentionally, or otherwise) played at our session.
And so, we played the tune, which was actually quite refreshing, but I don;t believe that I could ever admit that fact to anybody without suffering severe embarrassment....
This tune might be embarrassing as "a choice" but, like many others, it is still very popular and relatively harmless.
If slotted in a set(s) with several others, these well known tunes can pass by quite unnoticed and nobody really minds.
It's only when they become "centre stage" for some reason that there is a problem.
It is a nice little tune, wouldn't want to play it every week, but it does have sentimental value as the first Irish tune I ever learned, waaaay back when I was in High School.
You know, if Irish Washerwoman is good enough for the musos on "Fiddle Sticks, Irish Traditional Music From Donegal" why should anyone cop the 'too cool for school' attitude? It was a really popular tune with an older generation. I mean, yeah, I wouldn't want to play it in every session, it's not THAT great a tune, but once every few years is ok.
It's fairly often played in Scottish sessions. We don't have to care about the accumulation of negativity Irish-Americans have built up around it. In one Edinburgh session I used to play in years ago, it was the bar manager's favourite and he liked it as the closing number. So why not?
It isn't all that easy to play fluidly on most instruments.
It's one of two tunes I learned from my grandfather, from whom I got my fiddle. The other one was Rudolf the Red Nosed Raindeer so even though my grandfather came from a line of traditional (American north, not south) fiddlers not all of his tunes were traditional!
HAHA, that's funny that you mention that one, because last night at our local session, The Kesh jig and The Irish Washerwoman actually WAS played in a set! I really do understand what you mean..
why be ashamed ? some tunes I like and play over and over, some tunes I like less... and some I like at some point of my life, and then like less - and play less, and they reappear after a while, and I find I still love them... and I do like playing the Wassherwoman from time to time, as I can sing the Irish Rover and find the Craic... and I'd rather hear the Irishwasherwoman well played than any other badly done...
Jack: "It's fairly often played in Scottish sessions."
It may very well be played in the sessions you go to but certainly not in any sessions that I frequent. That is not meant as a slight on the tune. It is just, for one reason or another, it does not feature.
I well recall more than once being asked to play "the Irish jig" by non-scholars of the traditional music.
The tune they meant was the above, but somehow I could not refrain from asking them,
"Which one? There are several thousand documented. Would you mean this one?"
(Old Grey Goose)
"Or was it this one?"
(Saddle The Pony)
"No? Perhaps this one?"
(Old Hag You Have Killed Me)
"No? well, then..."
I can't remember the last time I heard The Irish Washerwoman in a sesh. Can't even remember the last time I diddled/hummed/whistled it. Now you've mentioned it, I can't get i out of my head! I'm going to make a point of playing it when I get home just to see if I can.
I feel the same about the Jig of Slurs - played to death, but I do like to stick it in a set every so often cos at least a'body kens it.
I'm pretty sure it's a 19th century English music hall tune - for a start, if it was an Irish tune it would be called simply "the washerwoman". No Idea how it got into O'Neil's, but it probably just got mixed up in its passage across the pond. It will have been widely played in Vaudeville, I assume.
I'm always amused when it crops up in the elaborate orchestrations for old cartoons like Tom & Jerey and Bugs Bunny. You always get the first two bars when there's an Irish gag.
I played it a couple of weeks ago on a whim. It's not a very good tune really, I don't think I'll play it again. There are plenty enough better tunes.
The only real problem with the tune is that it's hackneyed - largely as a result of its overuse by music hall and variety show bands to cue in Irish comedians.
The irony is, that there is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that the tune is actually of English origin.
The fact remains that it's fairly well-known to the public at large (even if they don't know the name of it). So for this reason alone, it does no harm to play it at sessions occasionally.
This is an old tune, though I suppose it might be English. It's in several manuscripts annotated by the Village Music Project, for example
Wm.Mittell's MS,New Romney,Kent,1799
Rev.R.Harrison's MS,c1815,Cumbria
James Nuttall MS,c1830?,Rossendale,East Lancs
J.Wilson,1833,Browne Coll
James Winder Ms, Lancashire, 1835-41
I've never come across the washerwoman either though it isn't that bad- just stretched over the years until its as overused as the term 'jig'.
Anyone heard of John Ryan's Polka? Now that IS a murdered tune albeit brings back memories of my ickle first year days. literally any session I go to, someone plays it at least five times.
I think it was Leo Rowsome who had it as just "The Washerwoman". If its good enough for the likes of him...
It's supposed to be derived from 'Dargason or Sedany' which is a tune from Playford's collection some time between 1650 and 1750. I'll take that with a pinch of salt.
"It's supposed to be derived from 'Dargason or Sedany' which is a tune from Playford's collection some time between 1650 and 1750. I'll take that with a pinch of salt."
There certainly is a similarity in the first part. Not really so beyond that. Basing the origin of a tune on its first appearance in print is leaves a big margin for error. Someone may have been playing Dargason because they heard the Irishwoman/washerwoman, whatever, somewhere else and that's how they remembered it - or the other way round - and it all depends on who was playing what when the likes of Mr Playford came along with his trusty quill and ink.
I think it first appeared on paper in a Scottish collection around 1780, where it was described as Irish. (To be precise, I thnk the title line gave the tune name as "The Washerwoman", with "Irish" printed top right as an attribution).
Hey emmdee, he said he played it on a whim, .... not a quim!
As for the tune, as Paul says above, if it's good enough foe Seamus Ennis, who am I to turn my nose up at it.
The fact is, I got a great lesson in tune snobbery about 35 years ago. I was sitting in Sandy Bells & I came over all snooty & declared that I was going to stop playing The Wise Maid, cause I'd played it too much, was now bored with it & thought that it really wasn't that good a tune anyway! ....... A few weeks later, I heard that absolutely fantastic recording of Joe Cooley playing it & I swore then, that I'd never again be a snobby prat, when it came to tunes.
I now firmly believe that if you look hard enough, you can find a little piece of magic in any tune ...... & if you can't find it, then it's your fault, not the tunes!
The only exception to this rule, is of course that satanic ritual of a musicless monstrosity that is known as ... Music for a Found Harmonium!
For me, it's always been The Rakes of Mallow that made me shudder. But at a recent session, I sat next to a really fine player who was all over it, throwing in unexpected triplets and runs. I've been kind of playing it and pushing it, dropping the B part down an octave, that sort of thing. It's still not my favorite tune, but I've kind of taken a liking to it, in a twisted sort of way.
i av never heard this tune until i just looked it up by the dubs. i like it but wouldnt play it every day..;.
So i think we wont kill you.. (this time)
1. 'The quiet Man' John Wayne
2. Tune played in fight scenes with drunks rolling out of Pub. Two stereotypes there.
3. Arrangements ala Rutter with a twist of Warner Brothers. Music style is Anglo or bubble gum Irish
Nice tune that is a good lesson-with the qualification that no one plays it because of the movie
I will play Washerwoman any day if the alternative is Rakes of Mallow. (Even though I'm not quite clear on on the B part.) (Eh)
Why do we develop such an aversion to certain nasty tunes? Llig is right; there are plenty of tunes. And like beer, it is a shame to waste time with the nasty stuff.
One older person who liked the Irish Washerwoman was Gerard Commane, the concertina player. And I thoroughly enjoyed learning his version of the tune last night, off the album Two Gentlemen of Clare Music.
I played it last night. It's quite a good tune to play - you can do fun things with it - but it's not a tune you'd want to throw out in a sesh unless you were sure the others would want to have fun with it as well.
There's a clip on youtube of Matt Molloy playing the ass off it, I think. Can't do a link at work, though.
Was messing around with the washerwoman with the lads a while ago. Gave it a makeover and made a reel out of it for the craic. Went something like this:
X: 1
T: The Washerwoman
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
R: reel
K: G
GA|BG (3GGG DEGA|BG (3Bcd edBd|cA (3AAA EAAB|cBcd edcd|
|BG (3GGG DEGA|BG (3Bcd edBd|cA (3AAA dBcA|BGGF G2:|
ga|b ~g3 dgBg|G2 ga ba^gb|a ~f3 d ~f3|gfga bagf|
e ~g3 dged|(3cdc Ac B3d|(3cdc Bc ABcA| BGGF G2:|
As a reel it easily becomes the Mason's Apron. Tommy Reck used to play a reel version of it that I used to play a lot twenty five years a or so ago. Reck played versions in different keys, G and D and if I remember corerectly A as well.
I have seen an early version of "The Mason's Apron" named as "The Repenting Stool" (in the Gairdyn MS, about 1713 I think). When you look at it right it is rather like "The Stool of Repentance". I used to think "The Irish Washerwoman" was derived from "The Stool of Repentance" but it seems it predates it, at least in written record.
Maybe all three tunes evolved together until they took separate forms before getting written down.
A lot of the attitude around this tune is threatened egos feeling they have just GOT to have superior tastes to the general public, hence nothing popular can be good. I prefer to believe that the public sometimes can tell a good tune when it hears one.
"A lot of the attitude around this tune is threatened egos feeling they have just GOT to have superior tastes to the general public, hence nothing popular can be good. I prefer to believe that the public sometimes can tell a good tune when it hears one."
Na Jack... I just don't like the tune; but apart from that, I've heard it played so many times so badly, that even if it was a good tune, I'd still hate it.
You could try singing the following words to the Irish Washerwoman by John A. Carroll (who was inspired to write this "thing" by the late isaac Asimov).
Chemist's Drinking Song
Paredimethylaminobenzaldehyde,
Sodium citrate, ammonium cyanide,
Mix 'em together and add some benzene,
And top off the punch with trichloroethylene.
Got gassed up last night with some furfuryl alcohol,
Followed it up with a gallon of propanol,
Tanked up on hydrazine 'til after noon,
Then spit on the floor and blew up the saloon.
Paradimethylaminobenzaldehyde,
Powdered aluminum, nitrogen iodide,
Chlorates, permaganates, nitrates galore,
Just swallow one drink and you'll never need more.
Whiskey, tequila, and rum are too tame,
No the stuff that I drink must explode into flame,
When I breathe and dissolve all the paint in the room,
And rattle the walls in a ground shaking boom.
Paradimethylaminobenzaldehyde,
Go soak your head in a good strong insecticide,
Slosh it around and impregnate your brain,
With dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane.
Myself, I have always been partial to I'll Take You Home Kathleen, because of its use as a leitmotif for Maureen O'Hara in the movie Rio Grande. As a youngster, I had a crush on her, as she was not only beautiful, but also seemed like she could take care of herself, not just a victim needing heroic rescue like a lot of the other women characters in movies back in those days.
Yes, bliss, I know that. And I am not sure how true it is, but I heard that the only reason that the woman's name is Kathleen and not Bertha is that the music publisher convinced him that Irish songs were selling better (back in 1876, if I am not mistaken). But it is one of those songs that, regardless of its music hall origins, the Irish-American community took to their hearts. A favorite whenever our group plays in a nursing home!
Written by Thomas Paine(Payne) Westendorf, who was born, apparently, in Bowling Green, Virginia (though the 'grapevine' seems to suggest he was from Indiana). Whatever the nationality of his ancestors, that would make him an American gentleman in my books.
I quite like the idea of 'take me home Bertha', though it is rumoured to have been written for his wife (Jenny or Jennie), said to be from NY, and some sources suggest that she was of Irish origin - others say she was of German extraction.
I like the idea of Béla Lugosi's Dracula singing it best of all.
Thank you Weejie for agreeing with my idea of Count Dracula trying to sing "I'll Take You Home Again Kathleen".
If Count Alucard sang this song, he would have to sing it backwards, right?
I haven't watched "Rio Grande" with John Wayne and Maureen O'Hara. However, I do remember watching some movie in which Wayne is a rancher. O'Hara is also in this movie. Wayne and O'Hara get into a mudfight and O'Hara gets covered with feathers and knocks a chorus girl (or maybe it is a prostitute) into a horse drinking trough. There are also some of the original inhabitants who have had their land stolen from them (Wayne's character is sympathetic to them) and a railroad with a steam engine and two women (one of whom is O'Hara) who think Wayne's character is cheating on both of them.
If you want something really bizarre, there is a boogie-woogie version of the Irish Washerwoman by Don Raye which he titled: "Scrub Me Mama (With A Boogie Beat)"
In Harlem there's a little place where everyone goes,
To see the way a washerwoman washes her clothes.
If you like Boogie-Woogie rhythm she's got a beat,
Let the Boogie Woogie washerwoman give you a treat.
On every afternoon at one the sessions begin,
And all the boys from all the bands come down and sit in.
They sit around and knock each other out when they play
While the Boogie Woogie washerwoman washes all day.
Rub diddle ub dub,
That's just the way she rubs.
Rub diddle ub dub,
That's just the way she scrubs.
Rub diddle ub dub,
She wears out all her tubs.
She rubs and rubs her knuckles right on down to the nubs.
Rub diddle ub dub,
That's how she kicks it off.
Rub diddle ub dub,
She keeps it nice and soft.
Rub diddle ub dub,
'Til someone hollers
"Aw, SCRUB ME MAMA, WITH A BOOGIE BEAT!"
You really ought to visit there if you've never been,
It doesn't cost a penny, just come down and walk in,
If you like Boogie Woogie rhythm,
You'll get a treat.
Let the Boogie Woogie washerwoman give you the beat.
Yes, Weejie, that is correct--it is "diddle ub dub music".
I suspect Scrub Me Mama (With A Boogie Beat) was written during the boogie-woogie craze of the 1940's which saw all sorts of tunes adapted into boogie-woogie style in bizarre and peculiar fashion.
Sabre Dance Boogie anyone? Yes this was "borrowed" from the infamous ballet by Aram Khachaturian.
Since some people here don't seem to like the Irish Washerwoman, I thought I would post these bizarre alternate versions for the amusement and bemusement of the other members of The Session.
As for me, I am neutral. If other musicians at our local sessions want to to play the Irish Washerwoman, that is fine with me. I don't tell anyone what to play or what not to play because I don't want to ruin the fun or "craic" for anyone else who is there.
I don't know if anyone tried to turn that particular Farewell to Gibraltar into a boogie piece but when I get home I could check on YouTube. I am at work right now. I can access The Session while I am at work but I cannot go to YouTube while I am at work.
Thank you for the warning Weejie but I was too busy yesterday evening to take a look at YouTube. Actually, when I did have the time to look for the 79th's Farewell to Gibraltar", I was thinking of starting by typing in "Farewell to Gibraltar" and go on from there.
Oh, the shame!
Oh, the shame!
One of our regular fiddle players tonight decided to bring down list of tunes, all of which were well known to him, and asked someone to pick out one of them at random (dart board fashion)...
To my amazement and horror, the chosen tune turned out to be "The Irish Washerwoman", which to my knowledge has never been (intentionally, or otherwise) played at our session.
And so, we played the tune, which was actually quite refreshing, but I don;t believe that I could ever admit that fact to anybody without suffering severe embarrassment....
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by Rick Payman
Re: Oh, the shame!
It'll be our secret.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Oh, the shame!
This tune might be embarrassing as "a choice" but, like many others, it is still very popular and relatively harmless.
If slotted in a set(s) with several others, these well known tunes can pass by quite unnoticed and nobody really minds.
It's only when they become "centre stage" for some reason that there is a problem.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by Johnny Jay
Re: Oh, the shame!
It is a nice little tune, wouldn't want to play it every week, but it does have sentimental value as the first Irish tune I ever learned, waaaay back when I was in High School.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: Oh, the shame!
Atahualpa: Thanks,I'll be relying upon you for that!
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by Rick Payman
Re: Oh, the shame!
I can't even play it properly; it comes up maybe once every 2 years
in sessions and I never play it at home. It's not all that easy to play.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by Hup
Re: Oh, the shame!
You know, if Irish Washerwoman is good enough for the musos on "Fiddle Sticks, Irish Traditional Music From Donegal" why should anyone cop the 'too cool for school' attitude? It was a really popular tune with an older generation. I mean, yeah, I wouldn't want to play it in every session, it's not THAT great a tune, but once every few years is ok.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by fidkid
Re: Oh, the shame!
It's fairly often played in Scottish sessions. We don't have to care about the accumulation of negativity Irish-Americans have built up around it. In one Edinburgh session I used to play in years ago, it was the bar manager's favourite and he liked it as the closing number. So why not?
It isn't all that easy to play fluidly on most instruments.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by Jack Campin
Re: Oh, the shame!
As long as you don't play it in a set with the Kesh, we'll let you live.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by Whiddler
Re: Oh, the shame!
It's one of two tunes I learned from my grandfather, from whom I got my fiddle. The other one was Rudolf the Red Nosed Raindeer so even though my grandfather came from a line of traditional (American north, not south) fiddlers not all of his tunes were traditional!
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by fiddlentina
Re: Oh, the shame!
@ Whiddler
HAHA, that's funny that you mention that one, because last night at our local session, The Kesh jig and The Irish Washerwoman actually WAS played in a set! I really do understand what you mean..
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by Mattias Holm
Re: Oh, the shame!
why be ashamed ? some tunes I like and play over and over, some tunes I like less... and some I like at some point of my life, and then like less - and play less, and they reappear after a while, and I find I still love them... and I do like playing the Wassherwoman from time to time, as I can sing the Irish Rover and find the Craic... and I'd rather hear the Irishwasherwoman well played than any other badly done...
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by Nikita Pfister
Re: Oh, the shame!
Jack: "It's fairly often played in Scottish sessions."
It may very well be played in the sessions you go to but certainly not in any sessions that I frequent. That is not meant as a slight on the tune. It is just, for one reason or another, it does not feature.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Oh, the shame!
I well recall more than once being asked to play "the Irish jig" by non-scholars of the traditional music.
The tune they meant was the above, but somehow I could not refrain from asking them,
"Which one? There are several thousand documented. Would you mean this one?"
(Old Grey Goose)
"Or was it this one?"
(Saddle The Pony)
"No? Perhaps this one?"
(Old Hag You Have Killed Me)
"No? well, then..."
Etc., etc.,...
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by Piece
Re: Oh, the shame!
I can't remember the last time I heard The Irish Washerwoman in a sesh. Can't even remember the last time I diddled/hummed/whistled it. Now you've mentioned it, I can't get i out of my head! I'm going to make a point of playing it when I get home just to see if I can.
I feel the same about the Jig of Slurs - played to death, but I do like to stick it in a set every so often cos at least a'body kens it.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by emmdee
Re: Oh, the shame!
I'm pretty sure it's a 19th century English music hall tune - for a start, if it was an Irish tune it would be called simply "the washerwoman". No Idea how it got into O'Neil's, but it probably just got mixed up in its passage across the pond. It will have been widely played in Vaudeville, I assume.
I'm always amused when it crops up in the elaborate orchestrations for old cartoons like Tom & Jerey and Bugs Bunny. You always get the first two bars when there's an Irish gag.
I played it a couple of weeks ago on a whim. It's not a very good tune really, I don't think I'll play it again. There are plenty enough better tunes.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by ...
Re: Oh, the shame!
The only real problem with the tune is that it's hackneyed - largely as a result of its overuse by music hall and variety show bands to cue in Irish comedians.
The irony is, that there is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that the tune is actually of English origin.
The fact remains that it's fairly well-known to the public at large (even if they don't know the name of it). So for this reason alone, it does no harm to play it at sessions occasionally.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Oh, the shame!
This is an old tune, though I suppose it might be English. It's in several manuscripts annotated by the Village Music Project, for example
Wm.Mittell's MS,New Romney,Kent,1799
Rev.R.Harrison's MS,c1815,Cumbria
James Nuttall MS,c1830?,Rossendale,East Lancs
J.Wilson,1833,Browne Coll
James Winder Ms, Lancashire, 1835-41
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by RichardB
Re: Oh, the shame!
I've never come across the washerwoman either though it isn't that bad- just stretched over the years until its as overused as the term 'jig'.
Anyone heard of John Ryan's Polka? Now that IS a murdered tune albeit brings back memories of my ickle first year days. literally any session I go to, someone plays it at least five times.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by Bodhran Demon
Re: Oh, the shame!
"plays it at least five times" ????
I've never heard ANY 32-bar tune played five times in succession at a session.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Oh, the shame!
You played it a couple of weeks ago on a whim, Llig? Would you not have been better playing it on a fiddle?
m.d.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by emmdee
Re: Oh, the shame!
I think it was Leo Rowsome who had it as just "The Washerwoman". If its good enough for the likes of him...
It's supposed to be derived from 'Dargason or Sedany' which is a tune from Playford's collection some time between 1650 and 1750. I'll take that with a pinch of salt.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by Paul_draper
Re: Oh, the shame!
Rowsome's HMV 78rpm calls it the irish Washerwoman and the same name is used in the Rowsome book.
Touhey had it as the IWW as well.
I have played the tune with Tommy Reck, great fun it was and there was no shame in it.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Oh, the shame!
"It's supposed to be derived from 'Dargason or Sedany' which is a tune from Playford's collection some time between 1650 and 1750. I'll take that with a pinch of salt."
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/9468
There certainly is a similarity in the first part. Not really so beyond that. Basing the origin of a tune on its first appearance in print is leaves a big margin for error. Someone may have been playing Dargason because they heard the Irishwoman/washerwoman, whatever, somewhere else and that's how they remembered it - or the other way round - and it all depends on who was playing what when the likes of Mr Playford came along with his trusty quill and ink.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by Weejie
Re: Oh, the shame!
The Donegal version is a good tune, but the "standard" version is a big pile of very smelly poo....
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by On Sabbatical
Re: Oh, the shame!
I heard somewhere (can't remember where) that is was written as a spoof on the irish and irish music by an English playwright a few hundred years ago,
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by greg sheils
Re: Oh, the shame!
I think it first appeared on paper in a Scottish collection around 1780, where it was described as Irish. (To be precise, I thnk the title line gave the tune name as "The Washerwoman", with "Irish" printed top right as an attribution).
Doesn't sound at all like Dargason to me.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by Jack Campin
Re: Oh, the shame!
No discussion of The Irish Washerwoman can be complete with listening to the Andre Rieu - John Sheehan version
http://youtu.be/G5H50j4DHXk
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by Free Reed
Re: Oh, the shame!
As a purist snob I never heard of the tune "Irish Washerwoman".
Indeed I am such a purist I only know ONE tune, called "Seamus O'Shaughnessy's favourite".
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by bodhran bliss
Re: Oh, the shame!
Re: Oh, the shame!
No discussion of The Irish Washerwoman can be complete with listening to the Andre Rieu - John Sheehan version
http://youtu.be/G5H50j4DHXk
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by Free Reed
Yer man Rieu must be in Ceoltas the way he is dressed.
Mind you he looks too happy to be in ceoltas.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by bodhran bliss
Re: Oh, the shame!
Hey emmdee, he said he played it on a whim, .... not a quim!
As for the tune, as Paul says above, if it's good enough foe Seamus Ennis, who am I to turn my nose up at it.
The fact is, I got a great lesson in tune snobbery about 35 years ago. I was sitting in Sandy Bells & I came over all snooty & declared that I was going to stop playing The Wise Maid, cause I'd played it too much, was now bored with it & thought that it really wasn't that good a tune anyway! ....... A few weeks later, I heard that absolutely fantastic recording of Joe Cooley playing it & I swore then, that I'd never again be a snobby prat, when it came to tunes.
I now firmly believe that if you look hard enough, you can find a little piece of magic in any tune ...... & if you can't find it, then it's your fault, not the tunes!
The only exception to this rule, is of course that satanic ritual of a musicless monstrosity that is known as ... Music for a Found Harmonium!
Cheers,
Dick
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by Ptarmigan
Re: Oh, the shame!
For me, it's always been The Rakes of Mallow that made me shudder. But at a recent session, I sat next to a really fine player who was all over it, throwing in unexpected triplets and runs. I've been kind of playing it and pushing it, dropping the B part down an octave, that sort of thing. It's still not my favorite tune, but I've kind of taken a liking to it, in a twisted sort of way.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by fidkid
Re: Oh, the shame!
i av never heard this tune until i just looked it up by the dubs. i like it but wouldnt play it every day..;.
So i think we wont kill you.. (this time)
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by raff2011
Re: Oh, the shame!
I don't know who the older folks are the like the tune.
We had some very good young fiddlers play it nad the older ladies quietly kvetched about it
Cultural stereotype. Ladies get very sensitive. My Grandmother was a Polish housekeeper many years ago
A subject not talked about much.
Recognizable tune. Negative culture connotations
# Posted on June 17th 2011 by zippydw
Re: Oh, the shame!
Rakes of Mallow, Negative Cultural connotations.
1. 'The quiet Man' John Wayne
2. Tune played in fight scenes with drunks rolling out of Pub. Two stereotypes there.
3. Arrangements ala Rutter with a twist of Warner Brothers. Music style is Anglo or bubble gum Irish
Nice tune that is a good lesson-with the qualification that no one plays it because of the movie
# Posted on June 17th 2011 by zippydw
Re: Oh, the shame!
Funny, I know a really good banjo player who likes Rakes of Mallow precisely because of The Quiet Man. Go figure.
# Posted on June 17th 2011 by fidkid
Re: Oh, the shame!
I will play Washerwoman any day if the alternative is Rakes of Mallow. (Even though I'm not quite clear on on the B part.) (Eh)
Why do we develop such an aversion to certain nasty tunes? Llig is right; there are plenty of tunes. And like beer, it is a shame to waste time with the nasty stuff.
# Posted on June 17th 2011 by Michele Sims
Re: Oh, the shame!
One older person who liked the Irish Washerwoman was Gerard Commane, the concertina player. And I thoroughly enjoyed learning his version of the tune last night, off the album Two Gentlemen of Clare Music.
# Posted on June 17th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: Oh, the shame!
I played it last night. It's quite a good tune to play - you can do fun things with it - but it's not a tune you'd want to throw out in a sesh unless you were sure the others would want to have fun with it as well.
There's a clip on youtube of Matt Molloy playing the ass off it, I think. Can't do a link at work, though.
# Posted on June 17th 2011 by emmdee
Re: Oh, the shame!
Was messing around with the washerwoman with the lads a while ago. Gave it a makeover and made a reel out of it for the craic. Went something like this:
X: 1
T: The Washerwoman
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
R: reel
K: G
GA|BG (3GGG DEGA|BG (3Bcd edBd|cA (3AAA EAAB|cBcd edcd|
|BG (3GGG DEGA|BG (3Bcd edBd|cA (3AAA dBcA|BGGF G2:|
ga|b ~g3 dgBg|G2 ga ba^gb|a ~f3 d ~f3|gfga bagf|
e ~g3 dged|(3cdc Ac B3d|(3cdc Bc ABcA| BGGF G2:|
# Posted on June 17th 2011 by tradshark
Re: Oh, the shame!
As a reel it easily becomes the Mason's Apron. Tommy Reck used to play a reel version of it that I used to play a lot twenty five years a or so ago. Reck played versions in different keys, G and D and if I remember corerectly A as well.
# Posted on June 17th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Oh, the shame!
I have seen an early version of "The Mason's Apron" named as "The Repenting Stool" (in the Gairdyn MS, about 1713 I think). When you look at it right it is rather like "The Stool of Repentance". I used to think "The Irish Washerwoman" was derived from "The Stool of Repentance" but it seems it predates it, at least in written record.
Maybe all three tunes evolved together until they took separate forms before getting written down.
A lot of the attitude around this tune is threatened egos feeling they have just GOT to have superior tastes to the general public, hence nothing popular can be good. I prefer to believe that the public sometimes can tell a good tune when it hears one.
# Posted on June 17th 2011 by Jack Campin
Re: Oh, the shame!
The version I have :
BG ~G2 dG ~G2 |(3Bcd BG dGAB| cA ~A2 eA ~A2| cBcd (3efg dc|
BG ~G2 dG ~G2 |(3Bcd BG dGAB| cBcd egge|dABA G ||
shows the similarities in structure. I think so anyway.
# Posted on June 17th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Oh, the shame!
"A lot of the attitude around this tune is threatened egos feeling they have just GOT to have superior tastes to the general public, hence nothing popular can be good. I prefer to believe that the public sometimes can tell a good tune when it hears one."
Na Jack... I just don't like the tune; but apart from that, I've heard it played so many times so badly, that even if it was a good tune, I'd still hate it.
# Posted on June 17th 2011 by On Sabbatical
Re: Oh, the shame!
You could try singing the following words to the Irish Washerwoman by John A. Carroll (who was inspired to write this "thing" by the late isaac Asimov).
Chemist's Drinking Song
Paredimethylaminobenzaldehyde,
Sodium citrate, ammonium cyanide,
Mix 'em together and add some benzene,
And top off the punch with trichloroethylene.
Got gassed up last night with some furfuryl alcohol,
Followed it up with a gallon of propanol,
Tanked up on hydrazine 'til after noon,
Then spit on the floor and blew up the saloon.
Paradimethylaminobenzaldehyde,
Powdered aluminum, nitrogen iodide,
Chlorates, permaganates, nitrates galore,
Just swallow one drink and you'll never need more.
Whiskey, tequila, and rum are too tame,
No the stuff that I drink must explode into flame,
When I breathe and dissolve all the paint in the room,
And rattle the walls in a ground shaking boom.
Paradimethylaminobenzaldehyde,
Go soak your head in a good strong insecticide,
Slosh it around and impregnate your brain,
With dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane.
# Posted on June 17th 2011 by fauxcelt
Re: Oh, the shame!
Here is the link to the web site where I found the words to the Chemist's Drinking Song:
http://www.familyfriendsfirearms.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-58700.html
Laurence
# Posted on June 17th 2011 by fauxcelt
Re: Oh, the shame!
Myself, I have always been partial to I'll Take You Home Kathleen, because of its use as a leitmotif for Maureen O'Hara in the movie Rio Grande. As a youngster, I had a crush on her, as she was not only beautiful, but also seemed like she could take care of herself, not just a victim needing heroic rescue like a lot of the other women characters in movies back in those days.
# Posted on June 17th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: Oh, the shame!
I would like to hear "I'll Take You Home Again, Kathleen" sung by Bela Lugosi in character as Count Dracula.
Laurence
# Posted on June 18th 2011 by fauxcelt
Re: Oh, the shame!
Myself, I have always been partial to I'll Take You Home Kathleen, because of its use as a leitmotif for Maureen O'Hara in the movie Rio Grande
# Posted on June 17th 2011 by AlBrown
That's a German song Al.
Well, written by a German gentleman anyway.
# Posted on June 18th 2011 by bodhran bliss
Re: Oh, the shame!
Yes, bliss, I know that. And I am not sure how true it is, but I heard that the only reason that the woman's name is Kathleen and not Bertha is that the music publisher convinced him that Irish songs were selling better (back in 1876, if I am not mistaken). But it is one of those songs that, regardless of its music hall origins, the Irish-American community took to their hearts. A favorite whenever our group plays in a nursing home!
# Posted on June 18th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: Oh, the shame!
"Well, written by a German gentleman anyway."
Written by Thomas Paine(Payne) Westendorf, who was born, apparently, in Bowling Green, Virginia (though the 'grapevine' seems to suggest he was from Indiana). Whatever the nationality of his ancestors, that would make him an American gentleman in my books.
I quite like the idea of 'take me home Bertha', though it is rumoured to have been written for his wife (Jenny or Jennie), said to be from NY, and some sources suggest that she was of Irish origin - others say she was of German extraction.
I like the idea of Béla Lugosi's Dracula singing it best of all.
# Posted on June 18th 2011 by Weejie
Re: Oh, the shame!
Thank you Weejie for agreeing with my idea of Count Dracula trying to sing "I'll Take You Home Again Kathleen".
If Count Alucard sang this song, he would have to sing it backwards, right?
I haven't watched "Rio Grande" with John Wayne and Maureen O'Hara. However, I do remember watching some movie in which Wayne is a rancher. O'Hara is also in this movie. Wayne and O'Hara get into a mudfight and O'Hara gets covered with feathers and knocks a chorus girl (or maybe it is a prostitute) into a horse drinking trough. There are also some of the original inhabitants who have had their land stolen from them (Wayne's character is sympathetic to them) and a railroad with a steam engine and two women (one of whom is O'Hara) who think Wayne's character is cheating on both of them.
Laurence
# Posted on June 18th 2011 by fauxcelt
Re: Oh, the shame!
If you want something really bizarre, there is a boogie-woogie version of the Irish Washerwoman by Don Raye which he titled: "Scrub Me Mama (With A Boogie Beat)"
In Harlem there's a little place where everyone goes,
To see the way a washerwoman washes her clothes.
If you like Boogie-Woogie rhythm she's got a beat,
Let the Boogie Woogie washerwoman give you a treat.
On every afternoon at one the sessions begin,
And all the boys from all the bands come down and sit in.
They sit around and knock each other out when they play
While the Boogie Woogie washerwoman washes all day.
Rub diddle ub dub,
That's just the way she rubs.
Rub diddle ub dub,
That's just the way she scrubs.
Rub diddle ub dub,
She wears out all her tubs.
She rubs and rubs her knuckles right on down to the nubs.
Rub diddle ub dub,
That's how she kicks it off.
Rub diddle ub dub,
She keeps it nice and soft.
Rub diddle ub dub,
'Til someone hollers
"Aw, SCRUB ME MAMA, WITH A BOOGIE BEAT!"
You really ought to visit there if you've never been,
It doesn't cost a penny, just come down and walk in,
If you like Boogie Woogie rhythm,
You'll get a treat.
Let the Boogie Woogie washerwoman give you the beat.
# Posted on June 19th 2011 by fauxcelt
Re: Oh, the shame!
Here are two YouTube links to Scrub Me Mama With A Boogie Beat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j-dPgh9eus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av2k3L7BTQA
Laurence
# Posted on June 19th 2011 by fauxcelt
Re: Oh, the shame!
That's not diddley music though. It's diddle ub dub music.
# Posted on June 19th 2011 by Weejie
Re: Oh, the shame!
Yes, Weejie, that is correct--it is "diddle ub dub music".
I suspect Scrub Me Mama (With A Boogie Beat) was written during the boogie-woogie craze of the 1940's which saw all sorts of tunes adapted into boogie-woogie style in bizarre and peculiar fashion.
Sabre Dance Boogie anyone? Yes this was "borrowed" from the infamous ballet by Aram Khachaturian.
Since some people here don't seem to like the Irish Washerwoman, I thought I would post these bizarre alternate versions for the amusement and bemusement of the other members of The Session.
As for me, I am neutral. If other musicians at our local sessions want to to play the Irish Washerwoman, that is fine with me. I don't tell anyone what to play or what not to play because I don't want to ruin the fun or "craic" for anyone else who is there.
Laurence
# Posted on June 19th 2011 by fauxcelt
Re: Oh, the shame!
I hope I am not condemned and am forgiven for posting these sacreligious and blasphemous versions of the Irish Washerwoman here.
Laurence
# Posted on June 19th 2011 by fauxcelt
Re: Oh, the shame!
More diddle ub dub for me. You don't happen to have a clip of a boogie version of the 79th Farewell to Gibraltar do you?
# Posted on June 19th 2011 by Weejie
Re: Oh, the shame!
I don't know if anyone tried to turn that particular Farewell to Gibraltar into a boogie piece but when I get home I could check on YouTube. I am at work right now. I can access The Session while I am at work but I cannot go to YouTube while I am at work.
Laurence
# Posted on June 19th 2011 by fauxcelt
Re: Oh, the shame!
"I don't know if anyone tried to turn that particular Farewell to Gibraltar into a boogie piece "
I should correct my typo to "79th's Farewell to Gibraltar" before you take things seriously and start thinking there are at least 78 more of them!
# Posted on June 20th 2011 by Weejie
Re: Oh, the shame!
Thank you for the warning Weejie but I was too busy yesterday evening to take a look at YouTube. Actually, when I did have the time to look for the 79th's Farewell to Gibraltar", I was thinking of starting by typing in "Farewell to Gibraltar" and go on from there.
Laurence
# Posted on June 20th 2011 by fauxcelt
Re: Oh, the shame!
By posting these alternate versions of the Irish Washerwoman, I was merely trying to elevate the discussion to a lower level.
Laurence
# Posted on June 24th 2011 by fauxcelt
Re: Oh, the shame!
Hearty Congratulations Laurence - you succeeded!
# Posted on June 30th 2011 by Rick Payman