Hey, I was wondering if anyone knows what the judges expect of bodhrans at the Fleadh? The bodhran has been my love since Year 8 but I only now feel able enough to compete and I want some advice as to what I should do.
The next thing is to practice the tunes with your chosen instrumentalist, to make sure you know the tunes backwards forwards and sideways. Make sure your playing is sympathetic to the tune.
Christ, Davy! Them judges have really got tough since the last time I went to the fleadh! Playing tunes backwards now? I always play my bodhran sideways, FWIW.
m.d.
what you gotta play are 4 different types of tunes - if you're over 18
what judge expect depends on the judge.
and unfortunately some of the judges who are judging the bodhran competition are not bodhran players, sometimes not even musicians.
Thanks for your help and yes Bodhran's are definately musicians and quite frankly out of the one's in my group honestly the only ones who can play to rhythm! But that's what we're for isn't it- giving rhythm to out fellow groups?
I'm not gonna do the Fleadh this year though- I was gonna do it but now I think its best that I see the judges' reactions myself before I play and totally bomb it. I've chosen my tune types though. What do yous think of a jig, hornipe, march and reel? Also I was wondering if you could do a set plus another tune cause I love the B Minor.
No, what we're for is most definitely NOT to give rhythm to our fellow groups, whatever that means. We're not rock drummers, and melody players can keep their own rhythm. Speaking as both a bodhran and flute/whistle player, I know my role with the drum is not to lead, but to follow.
To Steve I have to say I share your fondness for extreme cynicism, but a bodhran can be played correctly and it can be played incorrectly (i.e. with bad technique/insensitively) just like any other "musical" instrument I can think of.
m.d.
Yes I love bodhran, we are musicians and what's wrong with a good reel? The ones in my group bdw are 12-15 year olds who NEED to be guided and my teacher asks me to help seeing as I can.
Emmdee I know we follow and do not lead. I am merely stating that when the melody player cannot grasp the rhythm of the tune we can help. I'm not saying that melody instruments can't do that themselves- That would be totally wrong and stupid. I love playing my drum but I know its limitations and what not to do. Thanks for trying to put me right though seeing as I was misleading there.
Also I share your fears of whater glugging from a bottle- horrible. if your gonna play something you play it properly or learn how.
Hi Theirlandais- Its just that my puppy was throwing himself against his bed crate's door- I was afraid he was going to hurt himself. He's okay though. I realised you just close the internet anyway. He hates fiddles I think and when I was logged on yesterday I was playing slow airs and stuff. He just wanted me to shut it off.
Sorry to hear about your puppy, at least he didn't have his two paws wrapped around your leg, next time try playing your puppy a tune on your B minor Bodhran, I love "The B Minor" as well, it has that lovely soothing tone to it.
Bodhran players who do it right don't try to lead the melody players. The key word is ACCOMPANY. However, among any bunch of musicians playing a set there's only one who is leading that particular set. He/she establishes the tunes and he/she and the rest of them play the tune following the melody and following one another. I like your idea of every musician without a bodhran being a "leader" in their own right but it's not true. If it were true, you'd get 4 different players playing "The Soldier's Joy", "The Bucks of Oranmore", "The Gallowglass" and "The High Level Hornpipe" at the same time. Of course, in that scenario, the dilemma for the poor goatbasher would be which tune to accompany (or maybe just sit it out)
m.d.
Theirlandais this is in answer to your "next time try playing your puppy a tune on your B minor Bodhran" comment:
When the OP said "Also I was wondering if you could do a set plus another tune cause I love the B Minor." I am thinking that they meant they love a tune called "The B minor" (http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/3978) whichever this may be.
"I like your idea of every musician being a "leader" in their own right"
Well I'm glad you like it because that's how me and my mates play. We lead each other on, listening, reacting, listening, reacting. I can think of nothing worse than each person taking their turn at leading, I like to play with people and for people to play with me. And this is the reason the bodhran, at best, toggles between being either an irrelevance or a distraction.
Tut tut, don't partially quote people. You don't lead each other on. For one set, there's one chief and the rest are Indians. That changes for the next set, sure, but a'body "follows the leader".
What an appallingly rude and sweeping generalisation, by the way. 6 ALP fiddlers all scraping away at once with their own "interpretation" of Miss MacLeod's is distracting (and probably irrelevant), but it wouldn't lead me to suggest that the instrument is to blame.
Off-topic, I know, but are you a vampire? I thocht I kent you fae Bell's, but maybe you aren't who I thocht you were.
m.d.
"For one set, there's one chief and the rest are Indians. That changes for the next set"
This may well be the way the music is played in your session, but it's not where I like to play. I don't understand why you can't accept that it can be leaderless?
it is not leaderless, the person who starts the tune is leading, the others should follow and listen, and play in that persons style.
leaderless, that sounds like new age anarchy.
I'm sorry my ideas are generating this much opposition but I do tend to agree with llig leahcim (sort of). i have never attended a session were someone has been a leader at some point although it ends up usually being leaderless with people going onto repeats when others have already finished- its chaotic. There should be a leader unless you want 'anarchy'' (thanks for that description bdw).
And yes DJF- I'm not referring to a bodhran though they are lovely in B Minor. Its a tune I don't know the real name of that Niall McClean and his group play sometimes. lol about the puppy playing though- I'll try and see if he likes the bodhran instead. But what do you mean by OP- never heard it before.
apropos,playing in style of.
if someone is playing a hornpipe with plenty of swing, do not join in undotted, if someone is playing it undotted [gnashing of teeth] have the courtesy to play it their way , even if you hate doing so.
The judging can be a bit tough :D especially when you have master McGuire looking at you, then giving you a point by pioint critique of your playing afterwards :(
Well as to strict judging, I will see a fortnight on Sunday as to how strict is.
You guys must be talking about playing with people you don't know. I'm talking about playing with your mates who you've been playing with for 20 years. There is no leader.
I beg to differ Liggy old chap, even within a group of mates there is a pecking order, there will be one or two natural leaders, and a few sheep.if someone decides to play or start a tune they have taken a lead, they do not all sit around and have a democratic vote on what is the next tune to be played.
Just because someone starts a set it doesn't mean they're the "leader" of anything. We could all sit there all night not wanting a leader, by your definition, and we'd end up playing not a single tune all night. The blokes I play with have been together for 15 to 20 years. If somebody starts a tune it's a sort of suggestion which we all enthusiastically respond to, not the action of a "leader." He'd better start at a decent tempo for all of us otherwise someone, at best, will say at the end, "Where's the bloody fire then?" or, at worst, give him a small bollocking. That's not how you treat a leader. We have no leader because we all get the same amount of free beer.
The person that starts the set, Invariably leads into the second and third tune, the person that led the first tune chooses the second and third tunes, that is called leading.
The alternative is two or three people trying to play different tunes when the first tune is ended, result amateuriush cacophony.
To get back to the OP, and a modicum of sense, the most important thing is to practise with your melody player and make sure you are accompanying him, your role is not just to fill out the sound but to try and give something extra[preferably lift]
go and learn to sing the tunes you are going to accompany, remember if the bodhran cannot improve and help the melody player, it should not be there
Erm, I don't know, Silver Spear. I'm afraid I don't know who you are unless you can give me a clue. It's possible, if we were both in Embra at the same time, but I was never a regular on the session circuit after about 2001. Sorry.
m.d.
Bodhran in the Fleadh
Bodhran in the Fleadh
Hey, I was wondering if anyone knows what the judges expect of bodhrans at the Fleadh? The bodhran has been my love since Year 8 but I only now feel able enough to compete and I want some advice as to what I should do.
# Posted on June 9th 2011 by Bodhran Demon
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
I know this sounds silly- I want to log out but don't know how? I really need to log off.
# Posted on June 9th 2011 by Bodhran Demon
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
I haven't entered however I've been told that consistency and an even style is usually appreciated. Don't go too crazy in other words.
# Posted on June 9th 2011 by SlowAndSteady
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
Hi Bodhran Demon
First thing to do is look at the Fleadh regulations for bodhran competitions and select the 4 tune types you will accompany appropriately.
http://comhaltas.ie/press_room/detail/fleadh_rules/
The next thing is to practice the tunes with your chosen instrumentalist, to make sure you know the tunes backwards forwards and sideways. Make sure your playing is sympathetic to the tune.
Good luck at the fleadh
# Posted on June 9th 2011 by BigDavy
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
Christ, Davy! Them judges have really got tough since the last time I went to the fleadh! Playing tunes backwards now? I always play my bodhran sideways, FWIW.
m.d.
# Posted on June 9th 2011 by emmdee
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
what you gotta play are 4 different types of tunes - if you're over 18
what judge expect depends on the judge.
and unfortunately some of the judges who are judging the bodhran competition are not bodhran players, sometimes not even musicians.
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by padre
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
Thanks for your help and yes Bodhran's are definately musicians and quite frankly out of the one's in my group honestly the only ones who can play to rhythm! But that's what we're for isn't it- giving rhythm to out fellow groups?
I'm not gonna do the Fleadh this year though- I was gonna do it but now I think its best that I see the judges' reactions myself before I play and totally bomb it. I've chosen my tune types though. What do yous think of a jig, hornipe, march and reel? Also I was wondering if you could do a set plus another tune cause I love the B Minor.
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by Bodhran Demon
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
No, what we're for is most definitely NOT to give rhythm to our fellow groups, whatever that means. We're not rock drummers, and melody players can keep their own rhythm. Speaking as both a bodhran and flute/whistle player, I know my role with the drum is not to lead, but to follow.
To Steve I have to say I share your fondness for extreme cynicism, but a bodhran can be played correctly and it can be played incorrectly (i.e. with bad technique/insensitively) just like any other "musical" instrument I can think of.
m.d.
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by emmdee
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
Can be, but seldom is, and then the people who "get good" at it tend to start playing tunes on it like water glugging out of a bottle.
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by Steve Shaw
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
Yes I love bodhran, we are musicians and what's wrong with a good reel? The ones in my group bdw are 12-15 year olds who NEED to be guided and my teacher asks me to help seeing as I can.
Emmdee I know we follow and do not lead. I am merely stating that when the melody player cannot grasp the rhythm of the tune we can help. I'm not saying that melody instruments can't do that themselves- That would be totally wrong and stupid. I love playing my drum but I know its limitations and what not to do. Thanks for trying to put me right though seeing as I was misleading there.
Also I share your fears of whater glugging from a bottle- horrible. if your gonna play something you play it properly or learn how.
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by Bodhran Demon
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
At least my dear DJF you talk sense and are nice.
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by Bodhran Demon
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
"I know this sounds silly- I want to log out but don't know how? I really need to log off."
BD, I'm curious, why do you really need to log out?
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by Theirlandais
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
Theirlandais perhaps he is on a public computer
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by I ♥ Dow
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
Hi Theirlandais- Its just that my puppy was throwing himself against his bed crate's door- I was afraid he was going to hurt himself. He's okay though. I realised you just close the internet anyway. He hates fiddles I think and when I was logged on yesterday I was playing slow airs and stuff. He just wanted me to shut it off.
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by Bodhran Demon
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
I'm a girl if yous are wondering- is that me you were talking about with the public computer DJF?
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by Bodhran Demon
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
yes i was referring to you haha sorry
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by I ♥ Dow
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
Sorry to hear about your puppy, at least he didn't have his two paws wrapped around your leg, next time try playing your puppy a tune on your B minor Bodhran, I love "The B Minor" as well, it has that lovely soothing tone to it.
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by Theirlandais
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
Bodhran players who do it right don't try to lead the melody players. The key word is ACCOMPANY. However, among any bunch of musicians playing a set there's only one who is leading that particular set. He/she establishes the tunes and he/she and the rest of them play the tune following the melody and following one another. I like your idea of every musician without a bodhran being a "leader" in their own right but it's not true. If it were true, you'd get 4 different players playing "The Soldier's Joy", "The Bucks of Oranmore", "The Gallowglass" and "The High Level Hornpipe" at the same time. Of course, in that scenario, the dilemma for the poor goatbasher would be which tune to accompany (or maybe just sit it out)
m.d.
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by emmdee
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
Theirlandais this is in answer to your "next time try playing your puppy a tune on your B minor Bodhran" comment:
When the OP said "Also I was wondering if you could do a set plus another tune cause I love the B Minor." I am thinking that they meant they love a tune called "The B minor" (http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/3978) whichever this may be.
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by I ♥ Dow
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
"I like your idea of every musician being a "leader" in their own right"
Well I'm glad you like it because that's how me and my mates play. We lead each other on, listening, reacting, listening, reacting. I can think of nothing worse than each person taking their turn at leading, I like to play with people and for people to play with me. And this is the reason the bodhran, at best, toggles between being either an irrelevance or a distraction.
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by ...
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
Tut tut, don't partially quote people. You don't lead each other on. For one set, there's one chief and the rest are Indians. That changes for the next set, sure, but a'body "follows the leader".
What an appallingly rude and sweeping generalisation, by the way. 6 ALP fiddlers all scraping away at once with their own "interpretation" of Miss MacLeod's is distracting (and probably irrelevant), but it wouldn't lead me to suggest that the instrument is to blame.
Off-topic, I know, but are you a vampire? I thocht I kent you fae Bell's, but maybe you aren't who I thocht you were.
m.d.
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by emmdee
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
"For one set, there's one chief and the rest are Indians. That changes for the next set"
This may well be the way the music is played in your session, but it's not where I like to play. I don't understand why you can't accept that it can be leaderless?
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by ...
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
it is not leaderless, the person who starts the tune is leading, the others should follow and listen, and play in that persons style.
leaderless, that sounds like new age anarchy.
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by Nicholas Jelinek
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
Nicholas, you've got it exactly. Apart from playing in that person's style, which is a whole different ballgame, you've actually grasped my gist.
Llig, when's a good night to come to Bell's (sans bodhran)? Ah've no been for ages...
m.d.
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by emmdee
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
I'm sorry my ideas are generating this much opposition but I do tend to agree with llig leahcim (sort of). i have never attended a session were someone has been a leader at some point although it ends up usually being leaderless with people going onto repeats when others have already finished- its chaotic. There should be a leader unless you want 'anarchy'' (thanks for that description bdw).
And yes DJF- I'm not referring to a bodhran though they are lovely in B Minor. Its a tune I don't know the real name of that Niall McClean and his group play sometimes. lol about the puppy playing though- I'll try and see if he likes the bodhran instead. But what do you mean by OP- never heard it before.
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by Bodhran Demon
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
OP - "originator of the post" or "original poster", innit?
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by emmdee
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
apropos,playing in style of.
if someone is playing a hornpipe with plenty of swing, do not join in undotted, if someone is playing it undotted [gnashing of teeth] have the courtesy to play it their way , even if you hate doing so.
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by Nicholas Jelinek
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
Hi emmdee
The judging can be a bit tough :D especially when you have master McGuire looking at you, then giving you a point by pioint critique of your playing afterwards :(
Well as to strict judging, I will see a fortnight on Sunday as to how strict is.
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by BigDavy
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
You guys must be talking about playing with people you don't know. I'm talking about playing with your mates who you've been playing with for 20 years. There is no leader.
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by ...
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
I beg to differ Liggy old chap, even within a group of mates there is a pecking order, there will be one or two natural leaders, and a few sheep.if someone decides to play or start a tune they have taken a lead, they do not all sit around and have a democratic vote on what is the next tune to be played.
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by Nicholas Jelinek
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
I guess the B minor reel you are referring to is this?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7p89XbkMwU
I can't find a name for it, sounds like a recent composition to me
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by I ♥ Dow
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
Just because someone starts a set it doesn't mean they're the "leader" of anything. We could all sit there all night not wanting a leader, by your definition, and we'd end up playing not a single tune all night. The blokes I play with have been together for 15 to 20 years. If somebody starts a tune it's a sort of suggestion which we all enthusiastically respond to, not the action of a "leader." He'd better start at a decent tempo for all of us otherwise someone, at best, will say at the end, "Where's the bloody fire then?" or, at worst, give him a small bollocking. That's not how you treat a leader. We have no leader because we all get the same amount of free beer.
# Posted on June 10th 2011 by Steve Shaw
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
It's about punctuation.
# Posted on June 11th 2011 by mcknowall
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
The person that starts the set, Invariably leads into the second and third tune, the person that led the first tune chooses the second and third tunes, that is called leading.
The alternative is two or three people trying to play different tunes when the first tune is ended, result amateuriush cacophony.
To get back to the OP, and a modicum of sense, the most important thing is to practise with your melody player and make sure you are accompanying him, your role is not just to fill out the sound but to try and give something extra[preferably lift]
go and learn to sing the tunes you are going to accompany, remember if the bodhran cannot improve and help the melody player, it should not be there
# Posted on June 11th 2011 by Nicholas Jelinek
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
Well we tend to know what the second and third tunes are anyway. We know each other well. Boring, eh?
# Posted on June 11th 2011 by Steve Shaw
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
Yeah DJF that's the one although there are loads others too all called B minor.
# Posted on June 13th 2011 by Bodhran Demon
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
Llig, do you still work in Bell's or do you just play there now?
# Posted on June 14th 2011 by emmdee
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
I've never worked in Bell's. Just play
# Posted on June 14th 2011 by ...
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
Ach yes! I know who you are now
I've hardly been into Bell's since I moved away fae Edinburgh in 2008. I'm badly out of touch these days.
# Posted on June 14th 2011 by emmdee
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
Did we ever cross paths, emmdee (if you know who I am)? I moved to Edinburgh in 2007, left in 2009.
# Posted on June 15th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
Erm, I don't know, Silver Spear. I'm afraid I don't know who you are unless you can give me a clue. It's possible, if we were both in Embra at the same time, but I was never a regular on the session circuit after about 2001. Sorry.
m.d.
# Posted on June 15th 2011 by emmdee
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
American, twenty-something, plays uilleann pipes. Not too many of them about in Scotland.
# Posted on June 15th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Bodhran in the Fleadh
Sorry, mate. I must've missed you in passing. The only uilleann pipers I regularly met in Bells were Harry Lawson and Duncan MacLeod.
m.d.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by emmdee