Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
I've been playing tenor banjo for a short while on a Gold Tone CC Tenor, and am planning on upgrading to a better instrument at some point in the near future. In listening to lots of players, I'm finding that the sound that I love the most seems to be from Dave Boyle banjos (Dessie Kelliher, Eamonn Coyne,...) which are still above my price range at the moment. Can anyone point me towards makes of vintage banjos or other modern producers that are of similar feel, tone, bass response, etc...? I know DB banjo's are top notch instruments, and nothing will be exactly the same, but I'm hoping to get as close as I can in the price range of 1000 to 2000 Dollars, or 700 to 1500 Euros
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
Well, Chris, for a start, the tone from a banjo can have a very personal, subjective affect on you alone. What might sound to you as knock-me-down-gorgeous can have a completely different affect on the next guy. Therefore, the question itself is, IMO, asking too much of other people to, as it were, try to find out what sound might appeal to you. People hear the same things differently - even apart from having a personal taste. Fundamentally, it's your ear that determines what is attractive and pleasant sounding to YOU!!. No one else can do it.
That said, if you have up to $2000 to spend and if you live in the US, you can get any amount of classic banjos in that price range from Paramount C or D to a Vega Professional or Soloist, not to mention Bacon & Day Silver Bells. The world's your oyster. However, I, and it's only an opinion, would guess that the Vega would nudge towards the Dave Boyle in sound.
Nonetheless, you have to understand that a lot of the guys who own DB banjos are professional musicians but they're also human and, fads being fads, DB banjos are the in-thing at the moment. They're like Gibsons in the Bluegrass scene. Newbies say, Hey! All the heads have one, I must have one too!!' Well, there are a lot of better banjos out there. Money might or might not solve the problem but your own ear will definitely do the better job.
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
It's a mistake to think that getting a replica or duplicate set up (instrument/ strings/ maybe amp & pedals)as your hero will make you sound anything like him (or her).
It's like electric six string devil bothering: if one gets an upside down LH white 1967 strat, curly leads, same string guage, vintage 100w Marshall, FuzzFace & Vox wahwah you ain't gonna sound like Mr Hendrix, you'll sound like you. And if Jimi came to your bedroom and played on your Woolworths or PigglyWiggly set up, it would sound like him. It is all in the fingers not the hardware.
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
No rage, Michael. Just sad that you started trolling so early on this thread. I didn't mind the glib comment - we all slag each others' instruments off. And I don't think you meant it seriously. But at the very least you could have let the debate get off the ground.
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
Yhaalhouse is right of course. But such plain logic also has to contend with every famous six string devil botherer on the planet endorsing their own name branded copies. Everyone from Brian May (who's dad built his guitar out of an old wardrobe door I believe) to Tony McManus.
Even a cloth-eared, tone-deaf cynic like me knows you ain't gonna sound like Tony McManus just because you're strumming one of his guitars
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
"It is all in the fingers not the hardware." yhaalhouse
I'd agree with that to a certain degree, but being a tenor bodhranjo botherer myself I do know that Chris's Goldtone is quite a different beast to a Boyle banjo, hence why there's a difference in sound. A banjo's "hardware" can make a profound difference to tone, as can set up: head type thickness etc.... Quite a few variables to consider depending on the sound your after. But with banjo's, the bits make quite a difference, starting with the round wooden bit in the middle.
Also, unless your up for a vintage banjo, prepared to pay over the odds or take a chance on having one shipped over the pond etc, what choice is there for the discerning banjoist to consider with new built banjo's?
There's a void in the available banjo possibilities once you tire with the sound of the goldtone range. So either a sub grand or two grand +, nothing in between. Phil Davison, Dave Boyle or Tom Cussen all starting at around £2k+ for something that'll outshine the Goldtone, and outshine they do. Partly to do with, in the case of Dave Boyle and Tom Cussen, only heard Davis banjo's on recordings, with the fact that these banjos are set up and made for GDAE, partly to do with the heavier materials used and then there's the set up. Very many banjo set ups fail to match the dark yet clear hi cut of the makers mentioned above. Sure there are bound to be a squillion vintage banjos out there that'll match or better them for less money, but if like me you live somewhere thats not heaving with secondhand banjos your going to have to go find one.
Chris, I'd start saving and in the mean time you could try a set up and new thin head. Talk to Andy Banjo if your in the UK or europe see if he can't give you a set up that'll get you a better sound. Bridge weight, pick type, hand position/technique, head thickness (lol, no jokes please) tail piece type, can all make a difference without to much difficulty. But theres a limit because, tonerings rims flanges necks etc are fundamental and once fitted it's a banjo's worth of work to change them.
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
try a deering or getting a second hand dave boyle or clareen. its not really about sound ,its about how easy the banjo is to play. i find new banjos are easier to play than vintage ones and sound just as good anyway. i had a paramount leader(1926) for a while but the volume was so low and it was difficult to play. it was worth 1800 euros. i got a dave boyle recently and my playing has come on a good bit.for a 1000 euros more it was definetely worth it. when gerry has one they have to be the best http://youtu.be/Gk_9Uo2eIpo
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
"Even a cloth-eared, tone-deaf cynic like me knows you ain't gonna sound like Tony McManus just because you're strumming one of his guitars" llig leahcim
We're not talking about guitars, we're talking about the devils own axe; the banjo, a good choice indeed even although I know you prefer the guitar. And whilst I agree that technique and ability are king, as I mention in my post above, being primarily mechanical, there are limits in what each bundle of banjo bits can physically produce.
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
There's no doubt that the Goldtone and others like it, Ozark (?), DO perform a very useful function in the beginning/intermediate bracket but I always found them to lack the degree of 'ring' I look for. It's not just the 'sustain' which all banjos lack, to a degree, it's the quality of the note produced. And, as others have already said, that's where the quality of the parts enter the equation and, of course, the instrument's set-up.
For my part, until recently I was playing a Sully for nearly 15 years until quite recently when I switched around 8 mths ago to classic banjos. It was a purely personal choice in that I just felt like a change of tone. My first Sully, a 17 fret, was made in 1997 and its younger brother, a 19 fret, was made around 2001. I have since sold both on, but I cannot complain in any way as to their quality materials, workmanship and beautiful tone. For my money they were up there with the best modern 'Masterclone' type instruments. I don't think that Sully uses his original luthier, John Hullah, any longer and I'm out of touch with his current stock, but if you could get your hands on a good second hand one of the 95/05 vintage, you won't go far wrong. And you should be able to get one for around £800/1000.
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
I have a 1928 Vega Pro in near mint condition for sale if interested. Closest thing to that high end sound you describe that I've played to date. A bigger sound than the Clareen I played once. As others have posted on this topic many times before, the sound it gives is quite different when switching from the 5 Star and Ren heads.
Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
I've been playing tenor banjo for a short while on a Gold Tone CC Tenor, and am planning on upgrading to a better instrument at some point in the near future. In listening to lots of players, I'm finding that the sound that I love the most seems to be from Dave Boyle banjos (Dessie Kelliher, Eamonn Coyne,...) which are still above my price range at the moment. Can anyone point me towards makes of vintage banjos or other modern producers that are of similar feel, tone, bass response, etc...? I know DB banjo's are top notch instruments, and nothing will be exactly the same, but I'm hoping to get as close as I can in the price range of 1000 to 2000 Dollars, or 700 to 1500 Euros
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by Chris Becker
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
Well, Chris, for a start, the tone from a banjo can have a very personal, subjective affect on you alone. What might sound to you as knock-me-down-gorgeous can have a completely different affect on the next guy. Therefore, the question itself is, IMO, asking too much of other people to, as it were, try to find out what sound might appeal to you. People hear the same things differently - even apart from having a personal taste. Fundamentally, it's your ear that determines what is attractive and pleasant sounding to YOU!!. No one else can do it.
That said, if you have up to $2000 to spend and if you live in the US, you can get any amount of classic banjos in that price range from Paramount C or D to a Vega Professional or Soloist, not to mention Bacon & Day Silver Bells. The world's your oyster. However, I, and it's only an opinion, would guess that the Vega would nudge towards the Dave Boyle in sound.
Nonetheless, you have to understand that a lot of the guys who own DB banjos are professional musicians but they're also human and, fads being fads, DB banjos are the in-thing at the moment. They're like Gibsons in the Bluegrass scene. Newbies say, Hey! All the heads have one, I must have one too!!' Well, there are a lot of better banjos out there. Money might or might not solve the problem but your own ear will definitely do the better job.
Good hunting anyway.
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by Gerry_McCartney
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
"What might sound to you as knock-me-down-gorgeous can have a completely different affect on the next guy. "
Well I guess that just about sums up banjos then eh?
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by ...
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
My apols, lliG rM, I had been under the impression that I was addressing an intelligent readership and not a cloth-eared, tone-deaf cynic. Silly me...
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by Gerry_McCartney
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
What is it about banjo and bodhran players and their fizzing rage?
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by ...
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
It's a mistake to think that getting a replica or duplicate set up (instrument/ strings/ maybe amp & pedals)as your hero will make you sound anything like him (or her).
It's like electric six string devil bothering: if one gets an upside down LH white 1967 strat, curly leads, same string guage, vintage 100w Marshall, FuzzFace & Vox wahwah you ain't gonna sound like Mr Hendrix, you'll sound like you. And if Jimi came to your bedroom and played on your Woolworths or PigglyWiggly set up, it would sound like him. It is all in the fingers not the hardware.
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
Reminds me of one of my all time favorite quotes:
Hendrix was asked in an interview, "Why do you play with your teeth?"
And the class reply was, "I don't, I play with my ears."
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by ...
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
No rage, Michael. Just sad that you started trolling so early on this thread. I didn't mind the glib comment - we all slag each others' instruments off. And I don't think you meant it seriously. But at the very least you could have let the debate get off the ground.
Anyway, have a good day
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by Gerry_McCartney
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
Yhaalhouse is right of course. But such plain logic also has to contend with every famous six string devil botherer on the planet endorsing their own name branded copies. Everyone from Brian May (who's dad built his guitar out of an old wardrobe door I believe) to Tony McManus.
Even a cloth-eared, tone-deaf cynic like me knows you ain't gonna sound like Tony McManus just because you're strumming one of his guitars
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by ...
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
"It is all in the fingers not the hardware." yhaalhouse
I'd agree with that to a certain degree, but being a tenor bodhranjo botherer myself I do know that Chris's Goldtone is quite a different beast to a Boyle banjo, hence why there's a difference in sound. A banjo's "hardware" can make a profound difference to tone, as can set up: head type thickness etc.... Quite a few variables to consider depending on the sound your after. But with banjo's, the bits make quite a difference, starting with the round wooden bit in the middle.
Also, unless your up for a vintage banjo, prepared to pay over the odds or take a chance on having one shipped over the pond etc, what choice is there for the discerning banjoist to consider with new built banjo's?
There's a void in the available banjo possibilities once you tire with the sound of the goldtone range. So either a sub grand or two grand +, nothing in between. Phil Davison, Dave Boyle or Tom Cussen all starting at around £2k+ for something that'll outshine the Goldtone, and outshine they do. Partly to do with, in the case of Dave Boyle and Tom Cussen, only heard Davis banjo's on recordings, with the fact that these banjos are set up and made for GDAE, partly to do with the heavier materials used and then there's the set up. Very many banjo set ups fail to match the dark yet clear hi cut of the makers mentioned above. Sure there are bound to be a squillion vintage banjos out there that'll match or better them for less money, but if like me you live somewhere thats not heaving with secondhand banjos your going to have to go find one.
Chris, I'd start saving and in the mean time you could try a set up and new thin head. Talk to Andy Banjo if your in the UK or europe see if he can't give you a set up that'll get you a better sound. Bridge weight, pick type, hand position/technique, head thickness (lol, no jokes please) tail piece type, can all make a difference without to much difficulty. But theres a limit because, tonerings rims flanges necks etc are fundamental and once fitted it's a banjo's worth of work to change them.
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
try a deering or getting a second hand dave boyle or clareen. its not really about sound ,its about how easy the banjo is to play. i find new banjos are easier to play than vintage ones and sound just as good anyway. i had a paramount leader(1926) for a while but the volume was so low and it was difficult to play. it was worth 1800 euros. i got a dave boyle recently and my playing has come on a good bit.for a 1000 euros more it was definetely worth it. when gerry has one they have to be the best http://youtu.be/Gk_9Uo2eIpo
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by banjitar
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
"Even a cloth-eared, tone-deaf cynic like me knows you ain't gonna sound like Tony McManus just because you're strumming one of his guitars" llig leahcim
We're not talking about guitars, we're talking about the devils own axe; the banjo, a good choice indeed even although I know you prefer the guitar. And whilst I agree that technique and ability are king, as I mention in my post above, being primarily mechanical, there are limits in what each bundle of banjo bits can physically produce.
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
"when gerry has one they have to be the best http://youtu.be/Gk_9Uo2eIpo " banjitar
Yes, gerry must be a genius, he's just completely rehabilitated my opinion of the High Drive as a tune in that there link. Thanks...
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
There's no doubt that the Goldtone and others like it, Ozark (?), DO perform a very useful function in the beginning/intermediate bracket but I always found them to lack the degree of 'ring' I look for. It's not just the 'sustain' which all banjos lack, to a degree, it's the quality of the note produced. And, as others have already said, that's where the quality of the parts enter the equation and, of course, the instrument's set-up.
For my part, until recently I was playing a Sully for nearly 15 years until quite recently when I switched around 8 mths ago to classic banjos. It was a purely personal choice in that I just felt like a change of tone. My first Sully, a 17 fret, was made in 1997 and its younger brother, a 19 fret, was made around 2001. I have since sold both on, but I cannot complain in any way as to their quality materials, workmanship and beautiful tone. For my money they were up there with the best modern 'Masterclone' type instruments. I don't think that Sully uses his original luthier, John Hullah, any longer and I'm out of touch with his current stock, but if you could get your hands on a good second hand one of the 95/05 vintage, you won't go far wrong. And you should be able to get one for around £800/1000.
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by Gerry_McCartney
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
Sorry, too many 'recently'-s in 1st sentence of last para.
Can't afford staff to sub-edit my messages any longer. Bloody recession!
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by Gerry_McCartney
Re: Closest Banjo to Dave Boyle sound in a lower price range?
I have a 1928 Vega Pro in near mint condition for sale if interested. Closest thing to that high end sound you describe that I've played to date. A bigger sound than the Clareen I played once. As others have posted on this topic many times before, the sound it gives is quite different when switching from the 5 Star and Ren heads.
# Posted on June 9th 2011 by octogreg