Just wondering... are any of you guys across the pond aware of the rubbish we in the states are subjected to in the form of this public TV program called Celtic Thunder ?
I am not expecting the American public to know who Charlie Piggot is or much at all about Irish or British Isle music but this is just dreadful. We now have a new one on TV. At least the Celtic Woman thing had nice scenery.
This kind of thing goes a long way in the misconception of the Irish culture.
Just wondering .... any thoughts...... anyone seen this garbage?
"At least the Celtic Woman thing had nice scenery."
I didn't notice the scenery. As far as I'm concerned, the Celtic Women WERE the nice scenery. Some of them, at least. Although the music suffered and the package as a whole was dreck.
'Celtic Thunder' is unlikely to appear on my Stone Age apparatus here in the UK. Sounds just as well.
I found Celtic Thunder really boring. If you think this is what Celtic music is all about, tune into some pub sessions on You Tube. Listen to Bothy Band. Celtic Women puts me to sleep.
That's a shame because people might confuse the Celtic Thunder show with the D.C. area Irish outfit of the same name, which was outstanding.
Apparently, that band has reformed and has a recent recording on Green Linnet. The old group had a more democratic ensemble approach which was high flying and full of energy, this group seems focused around the box but the music is still good.
These guys on the TV show are doing things like singing John Denver's .... Take me home country roads.
Perhaps the DC band should consider a name change.
The "real" Celtic Thunder had the name first (1977). They should consider a cease and desist letter before being pushed around by some cheesy Celtic review. But I'm not sure they have the time, money, or really care at all. If it were my group I'd be very irritated by the show of the same name.
Their early records are must haves - really terrific playing and some good original material, too.
Gravelwalks... I'll check out the original group. Everything about the TV show should be changed. Also enjoy your playing on u-tube ... nice clean tasteful ... pleasure to listen to.
Her (a Mom,35 trying to look 20, almost no top on, celtic jewelry, with a fat eight year old boy sporting a fake tan, died hair and his ears pierced and wearing pink rubber shoes)"Do you like Celtic Thunder? We just loooovvve Celtic Thunder don't we Connor? Connor grins wide and nods.
I told her that I didn't. In reality I'd never heard of it/them. This tells me that my hunch was correct and I probably don't.
I don't think Celtic Thunder even tries to be "traditional". They're more of a show. I guess most of the guys are Irish or Scottish, but they do sing a lot of not "Irish" music. And I don't think anybody is being forced to listen to them. All you have to do is press the channel change button. ;)
I was not attacking the individual artist as such. All I am saying is that this program presented in the way it is, labeled as Celtic, portrays the Irish musical culture to an uneducated American public as "this is Irish music. I am an American. I am not from Ireland, but I do know this ain't the Irish image that should be sold to the already too plastic American culture that we live with here.
These guys are trying to make a buck.... Okay... but most Americans will see this as Irish. Do you really want that ?
Agreed on that people shouldn't think of it as trad Irish, and sadly many do. They should look up the Dubliners or something.
I'll go ahead and open another can of worms... the High Kings. This last year they've seemed to switch to a more traditional sound... and they are kind of related to the celtic woman/thunder group with the producers or whatever. This group has picked up a little bit with some of my friends that don't know much Irish music.
What's better for America? Celtic Thunder or Lady Gaga? Celtic Thunder would make a good name for a Celtic super hero. And fittingly it could be a Saturday morning cartoon. Captain America throws his mighty sheild, Celtic Thunder could whip a bodhron at his enemies but the bodhron would kinda topple end over end in an uneven bumby trajectory sometimes missing its target and taking out a random hippie-ish guitar player sitting in a park singing kumbuy ya.
"oh, out of curiosity, do people on here accept Lunasa?"
We'd have to check in the BOOK OF ACCEPTED GROUPS, PERFORMERS AND FIDDLERS FROM CHICAGO.....let me check....Liz Carroll, Liz Doherty,Lunasa....yes they are here. Why do you ask? didn't you get your book when you joined the website? It doesn't matter spit what other people like. All that matters is what YOU like.
Actually, I have heard a few High Kings numbers on youtube that kind of impressed me, more of a Clancy Brothers approach to things than a 'Hollywood' approach. Definitely closer to the 'real deal' than what you get from Celtic Thunder, who I just really don't care for..
My brother invited me and my wife to go with him to see Celtic Women (or is it Woman) and I have to admit, I found them very pleasant to listen to, if you are in a glitzy musical revue kind of mood.
Was Michael Coleman the 'Celtic Women' of his day? In some small, or maybe big way, all of it, including the poppy/popular stuff, helps preserve Irish dance music doesn't it? Look at the piles upon piles of records from the 20th century. Tons of music that I've never heard of and don't care to either. What stands out? What rises to the top? What defines the genre? Something that ' I ' like? Probably not. The masses choose and they will choose Celtic Women or Celtic Thunder.
AlBrown a "glitzy musical revue kind of mood" I guess I'll listen to Ruby Keeler singing 42nd street and some Broadway pop from the 30s because Irish folk music, trad, etc and "glitzy musical revue " go together like gasoline and water for me.
Thanks. I was sort of picking up from shanty's post. I may have misheard but I think a BBC documentary said he danced and played the fiddle "at the same time" and the booklet with the Gael-Linn CD set says he had an assocation with a vaudeville chain. 'Popular vaudeville and recording artist' is not the introduction I expected after reading about him on this board. Being an entertainer seems to be frowned on.
I agree... not impressed with Celtic Thunder AT ALL. While in Galway last week, however, I went with the folks to a show called "Trad on the Prom" which I was actually quite impressed with.
This rubbish is what is sold in the U.S. as pure Ireland or Scotland. Like the big River Dance fad of a few years ago. Now we have hundreds of Irish Dance Schools cropping up all over the place with thousands of little girls in garish costumes with big hair hopping all over the place. You can't swing a dead cat at a Scottish festival now without hitting a gaggle of them. Where are the pub bands performing now? Bothy Band or even the Chieftans? Bands like Gaelic Storm, (Titanic steerage scene), or even more rock and roll Celtic like Tempest or Seven Nations? Why aren't these bands being featured on U.S. television as something Celtic. Instead you get these incredibly boring, new age moaners who paint Scotland and Ireland as some of the most boring places on the planet, when they are exactly the opposite. OK, rant over, back to my cage!
"This rubbish is what is sold in the U.S. as pure Ireland or Scotland."
Excellent ! My point for posting this.
The average American has no clue to what traditional Irish or American music is. Most Americans will only be able to tell you that Bluegrass is traditional American music, with no idea that anything existed before 1943.
They see this rubbish and take that image away with them.
All this adds to the stupid uni-culture we have in the U.S.
I am amazed this thread has lasted this long.
Thanks for the comments.
Well, you have to look for it but it ("culture") exists in America. There's tons of Irish cultural centers across the country along with plenty of sessions. Good bad and everything in between. There are also plenty of pockets of genuine "culture" here--just pick an ethnicity/culture/nationality and hit any major US city and you'l find pockets. China towns, Little Italy's etc. not to mention all the lesser known ethnic neighborhoods. Or the new ethnic enclaves. I'm hearing a few really cool Hispanic radio stations. You can also find pockets of genuine "American" culture in many of the small towns and farming communities off the beaten path unless you dismiss those people as just hillbillies or rednecks. There's Old time jams and bluegrass jams. I imagine somewhere there's a good blues club (I've never seen one though). There's Cajun music here. Reggae nights in a lot of bars. We run the entire spectrum here and you shouldn't so easily dismiss it.The commercialism of the US tends to blind us to the reality of the diversity of rich cultures that are at the roots of our country.
You won't find this stuff on commercial radio or commercial television. You won't find it at the shopping mall or Wall Mart. But you won't be inundated with it in other countries either.
I have been an old time string band banjo player and so-so historian for over 40 years. I know the places to find what I am looking for but the average American .... just doesn't know what to look for. It's the TV that tells him what the music is.
I am an American .. still lot of good stuff here but we used to have over a hundred varieties of apples to choose from years ago and now we have about 6 or 7.
The vast overwhelming number of the three hundred million of us have no idea about old time music or Irish music or jug bands or much of anything else except what is on TV.
Celtic Thunder just exceeded my plastic tolerance.
Tubaphone you rock.
Where do I find the traditional music? I stumble on the trad music at church groups, county fairs, small town talent shows, on and on. Folks who just love this music, name your ethnicity and learn to play it well. Unfortunately they don't have the connections to get discovered or more likely don't want to be discovered.
Celtic Thunder's music is a little bit of everything which I think is cool. Just because they're Irish and Scottish means they have to sing traditional Irish music all the time? Wouldn't it get really boring if that's what all Irish music groups did? It's nice to break away from the traditional stuff for a while and listen to something like Celtic Thunder.
Celtic Thunder Rubbish
Celtic Thunder Rubbish
Just wondering... are any of you guys across the pond aware of the rubbish we in the states are subjected to in the form of this public TV program called Celtic Thunder ?
I am not expecting the American public to know who Charlie Piggot is or much at all about Irish or British Isle music but this is just dreadful. We now have a new one on TV. At least the Celtic Woman thing had nice scenery.
This kind of thing goes a long way in the misconception of the Irish culture.
Just wondering .... any thoughts...... anyone seen this garbage?
# Posted on June 2nd 2011 by tubaphone #9
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
I haven't looked at a television for twenty years or more and have no intention of doing so.
# Posted on June 2nd 2011 by gam
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
"At least the Celtic Woman thing had nice scenery."
I didn't notice the scenery. As far as I'm concerned, the Celtic Women WERE the nice scenery. Some of them, at least. Although the music suffered and the package as a whole was dreck.
'Celtic Thunder' is unlikely to appear on my Stone Age apparatus here in the UK. Sounds just as well.
# Posted on June 2nd 2011 by nicholas
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
Are you kidding? Celtic Thunder is AMAZING!!!
# Posted on June 2nd 2011 by JPFlute
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
I found Celtic Thunder really boring. If you think this is what Celtic music is all about, tune into some pub sessions on You Tube. Listen to Bothy Band. Celtic Women puts me to sleep.
# Posted on June 2nd 2011 by baxdrum
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
That's a shame because people might confuse the Celtic Thunder show with the D.C. area Irish outfit of the same name, which was outstanding.
Apparently, that band has reformed and has a recent recording on Green Linnet. The old group had a more democratic ensemble approach which was high flying and full of energy, this group seems focused around the box but the music is still good.
http://www.greenlinnet.com/artist.php?id=190
# Posted on June 2nd 2011 by gravelwalks
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
These guys on the TV show are doing things like singing John Denver's .... Take me home country roads.
Perhaps the DC band should consider a name change.
# Posted on June 2nd 2011 by tubaphone #9
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
The "real" Celtic Thunder had the name first (1977). They should consider a cease and desist letter before being pushed around by some cheesy Celtic review. But I'm not sure they have the time, money, or really care at all. If it were my group I'd be very irritated by the show of the same name.
Their early records are must haves - really terrific playing and some good original material, too.
# Posted on June 2nd 2011 by gravelwalks
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
Gravelwalks... I'll check out the original group. Everything about the TV show should be changed. Also enjoy your playing on u-tube ... nice clean tasteful ... pleasure to listen to.
# Posted on June 2nd 2011 by tubaphone #9
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
Coming on this website to call Celtic Thunder rubbish takes no courage at all. Now,questioning Liz Carroll, that is another story!!!!
# Posted on June 2nd 2011 by AlBrown
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
Her (a Mom,35 trying to look 20, almost no top on, celtic jewelry, with a fat eight year old boy sporting a fake tan, died hair and his ears pierced and wearing pink rubber shoes)"Do you like Celtic Thunder? We just loooovvve Celtic Thunder don't we Connor? Connor grins wide and nods.
I told her that I didn't. In reality I'd never heard of it/them. This tells me that my hunch was correct and I probably don't.
# Posted on June 3rd 2011 by shanty
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
Is it an Irish version of The Thunder Down Under? Sounds like a trip to Vegas I once had.
# Posted on June 3rd 2011 by frauschmittle
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
Vegas is a good observation. It would be showing right next to the blue guys banging on garbage cans.
# Posted on June 3rd 2011 by tubaphone #9
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
I take them for what they are....A Bermuda cruise boat act for retirees
No criticism or compliments. It's their schtick, not mine. Muscians making a buck.
And it is equal opportunity schtick. The bastardize broadway and the "American Tune Book" as well as O'Neill's.
I sure that the Chief, Cole Porter, and George and Ira Gershwin are sitting somewhere together over a pint amused by CT's efforts.
# Posted on June 3rd 2011 by zippydw
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
I don't think Celtic Thunder even tries to be "traditional". They're more of a show. I guess most of the guys are Irish or Scottish, but they do sing a lot of not "Irish" music. And I don't think anybody is being forced to listen to them. All you have to do is press the channel change button. ;)
# Posted on June 6th 2011 by Invincible
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
I was not attacking the individual artist as such. All I am saying is that this program presented in the way it is, labeled as Celtic, portrays the Irish musical culture to an uneducated American public as "this is Irish music. I am an American. I am not from Ireland, but I do know this ain't the Irish image that should be sold to the already too plastic American culture that we live with here.
These guys are trying to make a buck.... Okay... but most Americans will see this as Irish. Do you really want that ?
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by tubaphone #9
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
Agreed on that people shouldn't think of it as trad Irish, and sadly many do. They should look up the Dubliners or something.
I'll go ahead and open another can of worms... the High Kings. This last year they've seemed to switch to a more traditional sound... and they are kind of related to the celtic woman/thunder group with the producers or whatever. This group has picked up a little bit with some of my friends that don't know much Irish music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udXVev0Tw34
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by Invincible
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
What's better for America? Celtic Thunder or Lady Gaga? Celtic Thunder would make a good name for a Celtic super hero. And fittingly it could be a Saturday morning cartoon. Captain America throws his mighty sheild, Celtic Thunder could whip a bodhron at his enemies but the bodhron would kinda topple end over end in an uneven bumby trajectory sometimes missing its target and taking out a random hippie-ish guitar player sitting in a park singing kumbuy ya.
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by shanty
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
DwarfMaster---no more links, thank you, that was plenty. Slap your hand with a ruler and NEVER do that again!
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by shanty
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
LOL, I like that superhero idea.
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by Invincible
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
oh, out of curiosity, do people on here accept Lunasa?
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by Invincible
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
and one more to the post just above: the Wolfe Tones.
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by Invincible
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
"oh, out of curiosity, do people on here accept Lunasa?"
We'd have to check in the BOOK OF ACCEPTED GROUPS, PERFORMERS AND FIDDLERS FROM CHICAGO.....let me check....Liz Carroll, Liz Doherty,Lunasa....yes they are here. Why do you ask? didn't you get your book when you joined the website? It doesn't matter spit what other people like. All that matters is what YOU like.
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by shanty
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
Lunasa are from Chicago? I don't like them anymore
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by ...
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
I just have a feeling that association, regardless of talent or sound, affects opinions greatly.
# Posted on June 7th 2011 by Invincible
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
Actually, I have heard a few High Kings numbers on youtube that kind of impressed me, more of a Clancy Brothers approach to things than a 'Hollywood' approach. Definitely closer to the 'real deal' than what you get from Celtic Thunder, who I just really don't care for..
My brother invited me and my wife to go with him to see Celtic Women (or is it Woman) and I have to admit, I found them very pleasant to listen to, if you are in a glitzy musical revue kind of mood.
# Posted on June 8th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
Was Michael Coleman the 'Celtic Women' of his day? In some small, or maybe big way, all of it, including the poppy/popular stuff, helps preserve Irish dance music doesn't it? Look at the piles upon piles of records from the 20th century. Tons of music that I've never heard of and don't care to either. What stands out? What rises to the top? What defines the genre? Something that ' I ' like? Probably not. The masses choose and they will choose Celtic Women or Celtic Thunder.
AlBrown a "glitzy musical revue kind of mood" I guess I'll listen to Ruby Keeler singing 42nd street and some Broadway pop from the 30s because Irish folk music, trad, etc and "glitzy musical revue " go together like gasoline and water for me.
# Posted on June 8th 2011 by shanty
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
I think some of you have a severe problem distinguishing between ballad groups and traditional music.
# Posted on June 8th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
What sort of 'show' did Michael Coleman perform in ? What other acts were there ?
# Posted on June 8th 2011 by David50
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
Patsy Touhey (and a few others) touring the Vaudeville circuit would have been a better example.
# Posted on June 8th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
Thanks. I was sort of picking up from shanty's post. I may have misheard but I think a BBC documentary said he danced and played the fiddle "at the same time" and the booklet with the Gael-Linn CD set says he had an assocation with a vaudeville chain. 'Popular vaudeville and recording artist' is not the introduction I expected after reading about him on this board. Being an entertainer seems to be frowned on.
# Posted on June 8th 2011 by David50
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
Coleman that is.
# Posted on June 8th 2011 by David50
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
I agree... not impressed with Celtic Thunder AT ALL. While in Galway last week, however, I went with the folks to a show called "Trad on the Prom" which I was actually quite impressed with.
# Posted on June 8th 2011 by Fiddlechick7
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
This rubbish is what is sold in the U.S. as pure Ireland or Scotland. Like the big River Dance fad of a few years ago. Now we have hundreds of Irish Dance Schools cropping up all over the place with thousands of little girls in garish costumes with big hair hopping all over the place. You can't swing a dead cat at a Scottish festival now without hitting a gaggle of them. Where are the pub bands performing now? Bothy Band or even the Chieftans? Bands like Gaelic Storm, (Titanic steerage scene), or even more rock and roll Celtic like Tempest or Seven Nations? Why aren't these bands being featured on U.S. television as something Celtic. Instead you get these incredibly boring, new age moaners who paint Scotland and Ireland as some of the most boring places on the planet, when they are exactly the opposite. OK, rant over, back to my cage!
# Posted on June 15th 2011 by baxdrum
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
"This rubbish is what is sold in the U.S. as pure Ireland or Scotland."
Excellent ! My point for posting this.
The average American has no clue to what traditional Irish or American music is. Most Americans will only be able to tell you that Bluegrass is traditional American music, with no idea that anything existed before 1943.
They see this rubbish and take that image away with them.
All this adds to the stupid uni-culture we have in the U.S.
I am amazed this thread has lasted this long.
Thanks for the comments.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by tubaphone #9
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
Well, you have to look for it but it ("culture") exists in America. There's tons of Irish cultural centers across the country along with plenty of sessions. Good bad and everything in between. There are also plenty of pockets of genuine "culture" here--just pick an ethnicity/culture/nationality and hit any major US city and you'l find pockets. China towns, Little Italy's etc. not to mention all the lesser known ethnic neighborhoods. Or the new ethnic enclaves. I'm hearing a few really cool Hispanic radio stations. You can also find pockets of genuine "American" culture in many of the small towns and farming communities off the beaten path unless you dismiss those people as just hillbillies or rednecks. There's Old time jams and bluegrass jams. I imagine somewhere there's a good blues club (I've never seen one though). There's Cajun music here. Reggae nights in a lot of bars. We run the entire spectrum here and you shouldn't so easily dismiss it.The commercialism of the US tends to blind us to the reality of the diversity of rich cultures that are at the roots of our country.
You won't find this stuff on commercial radio or commercial television. You won't find it at the shopping mall or Wall Mart. But you won't be inundated with it in other countries either.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by shanty
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
I have been an old time string band banjo player and so-so historian for over 40 years. I know the places to find what I am looking for but the average American .... just doesn't know what to look for. It's the TV that tells him what the music is.
I am an American .. still lot of good stuff here but we used to have over a hundred varieties of apples to choose from years ago and now we have about 6 or 7.
The vast overwhelming number of the three hundred million of us have no idea about old time music or Irish music or jug bands or much of anything else except what is on TV.
Celtic Thunder just exceeded my plastic tolerance.
# Posted on June 16th 2011 by tubaphone #9
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
# Posted on June 17th 2011 by shanty
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
Tubaphone you rock.
Where do I find the traditional music? I stumble on the trad music at church groups, county fairs, small town talent shows, on and on. Folks who just love this music, name your ethnicity and learn to play it well. Unfortunately they don't have the connections to get discovered or more likely don't want to be discovered.
# Posted on August 3rd 2011 by baxdrum
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
Celtic Thunder's music is a little bit of everything which I think is cool. Just because they're Irish and Scottish means they have to sing traditional Irish music all the time? Wouldn't it get really boring if that's what all Irish music groups did? It's nice to break away from the traditional stuff for a while and listen to something like Celtic Thunder.
# Posted on October 21st 2011 by IrishDancer392
Re: Celtic Thunder Rubbish
You make it sound as if traditional Irish music has a very limited repertoire. I'm thinking it is vast.
Sean-nós singing ~ Beth Benedetto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7qieYC4VWM
@ 4:54
# Posted on October 21st 2011 by Batgirl has left the GPL ;)
A bit of self editing
On rethinking I should have said, "you think of traditional Irish music as being very limiting . . ."
# Posted on October 21st 2011 by Batgirl has left the GPL ;)