Hi Jerone, wow all that in 5months? You are doing great!
I think everything is in line given the time you've been playing. Don't be in a rush to grow up as they say. One pointer, from my style viewpoint, is more fluidity. Try slowing things down and tie your notes together like you were singing them. You'll find that a note to each bow doesn't always produce the sound you are ultimately looking for. Imagine in your mind how you want it to sound, and keep trying to replicate that... Good stuff, keep it up...
And so i don't recieve any undo credit, i want to make clear. I've been playing ITM for about 5 months, but i've been practicing Fiddle and Violin techniques for about 1 and a half years.
Look here in the tunes section at the comments on that tune, Jerone, it is a great example of a tune that can be played many different ways, including C naturals instead of C sharps, which gives it a whole different feel.
You look like you are having fun, keep it up!
Isn't it called Humours of Trim in O'Neill's? I think the "Rolling Waves" name got pinned on it much more recently (notably by Kevin Crawford on his In Good Company cd). I could be wrong.
Good job Jerone. I like how you smooth out the timing in the faster clip--to me, the timing is actually better on that clip than the slow one. Doing well on most of your rolls, too. It's one thing to get the twiddly bits working at all, and a whole 'nuther thing to become consistent with them. But you'll get there sooner than later.
The more you play, the more efficient your bowing motions will become, too, and that will help a lot toward smoothing out your overall feel and sound. Remind yourself now and then to use less bow--don't need to move the whole forearm unless for a long note or slur. Often just a relaxed lift or dip of the bow hand itself is all that's needed for short notes.
As celticturntable says, add in some slurs. A common slur in Irish jigs is just two notes, on to the 1 of a 1-2-3 from the previous 3.
I concur. You are making good progress. Keep climbing the mountain.
As for the fluidity, yes. It's a bit like learning hammer-ons and pull-offs on the guitar. You get used to picking at every note and then try to add in this other note in between some of the right hand action.
I would also suggest watching some fiddler vids on YouTube just to see how they handle the bow since your control is getting better.
Hey Jerome, I'm quite enjoying seeing your progress in playing fiddle!
BTW, I notice you're from Round Rock.
If ever you're up in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, please don't hesitate to drop myself or some of the other DFW players in the area and pop into one of the sessions we have this area, we'd love to have you
Well, you may not be a musicologist ;) but you're sure on the way with the fiddle. Will's comments on bowing are good ones. I'm told (and even discovered a bit when I played for just a brief period of time) that practice definitely does two things for the bow arm: It shortens up the stroke needed for given notes and it improves the quality of the sound. I'm sure you'll have all that under control as time goes on. I also like the changes in things on second time around. It is easy to see that you've listened to the music and to the comments out here and learned from them. I also like the fast version better. There's a better sense of direction there I think.
You're doing better than a lot of people that have been playing longer than you. That's a testament to your dedication, and all of the work that you're putting into it!
I agree with Will, I think the timing got more consistent when you were playing faster. Once you have the skills to play fast, it's generally easier to play fast and have it sound OK than it is to play slowly. When you're playing at a slower tempo, it amplifies things like issues with timing and phrasing, because you have so much more time to notice them. That's one of the reasons that it's good to practice slowly, and concentrate on trying to make it sound as good as you can. (Don't get me wrong, it's good to practice faster too...)
One thing I noticed is that there is sort of a "wall of sound" coming out when you're playing. All the notes sound about the same volume, and there isn't much space being given to the tune. Next time you listen to a recording of an experienced fiddler playing solo, try listening for the space between the notes, and the differences in dynamics that are used in the phrasing. Learn to let the tune breathe. It's that space and the dynamics, combined with the articulations that can help it sound more lyrical.
Oh yea Reverend, i noticed the "wall of sound" as well. But i thought it was something that came from my lack of experience. They say the Fiddle/Violin is a very dynamic instrument, but i can't get the thing to quiet down for anything. I'll take your advice and work on "letting the tune breath". Maybe this will help me out with what Sandy was talking about in the other thread about "Overtones", and crushing them if i'm not careful. I think there's a link in there between both of your ideas.
SandyBottoms
"you needed to loosen up. I think your playing has great volume and energy, but you were crushing your overtones. One great way to improve your playing on fiddle is the conscious decision to allow your fiddle to resonate between bow strokes so the notes layer a little... ...keeping a light enough touch on your bow arm as you change bow directions that your overtones, don't get crushed by the next note/bow direction change."
Reverend
"All the notes sound about the same volume, and there isn't much space being given to the tune. Next time you listen to a recording of an experienced fiddler playing solo, try listening for the space between the notes, and the differences in dynamics that are used in the phrasing. Learn to let the tune breathe. It's that space and the dynamics, combined with the articulations that can help it sound more lyrical."
Not bad! I have three specific pieces of advice that I think might help:
1) When you're practising slower, play with more even rhythm than you're doing. Concentrate on getting nice, even rhythm. If I were you, I'd cut out completely that 'lilt' that you're putting in there when you play the tunes slowly. I think playing the tunes straight and slow will help your timing overall.
2) Try to loosen up your wrist a bit. There's a bit of movement from the shoulder which is making for a slight 'sawing' sound when you play. To do this, try practising tunes with, in the bow arm, only wrist movement. Cut out shoulder and even elbow movement when you do this. Johnny Cunningham once told me that his father (or was it his grandfather?) made him practise with his bow arm hooked round a chair, so that he could only play with the wrist. Now Johhny was an extreme example, but you still need more flexibility than you're getting.
3) Even though you have got some nice ornaments going that break up the rhythm, it's still a bit 'one note per bow'. You need to try mixing it up a bit. Make yourself invent new ways to tie notes together - over the half bar, over the bar line, four note together, two notes together. You won't use everything, but it should free up your bowing.
Dang! I've thought of a fourth thing - I think it would be worth trying to get your left hand fingers to hammer down more on the strings - basically to move quicker and also to press harder. Trouble is, you've got to be able to do this without stiffening up. Thnking about it, maybe best nmot do anything on this without a teacher around to guide you.
Yea, you're doing well so far. When you get your foot to move in time with the music you'll be half-way there
Here's something you can try:-
taking the rhythm to be123-456, play a slow version just as you did in the video, but this time playing really quietly -- as quietly as you can -- except for beat 4, which you play as LOUDLY as you can, while still maintaining the same flow. You'll become very aware of the direction your bow, and once you begin to get that right, you will hear the 4-notes clearly sounding. When you can get right through the tune without having to correct the bow direction, then gradually begin to play more 'normally', with less -- but still some -- emphasis on the louder notes.
When you've got the hang of that, do the same with the emphasis on beat 1. then go for a lie down. You'll need it
You can do this with reels as well, emphasising beat 3. It really lifts the music, as well as helping with your bowing.
Well done.
"Try slowing things down and tie your notes together like you were singing them. You'll find that a note to each bow doesn't always produce the sound you are ultimately looking for"
1 point for bowing
1 point for practicing slower
"Remind yourself now and then to use less bow--don't need to move the whole forearm unless for a long note or slur. Often just a relaxed lift or dip of the bow hand itself is all that's needed for short notes."
2 points for bowing
"I would also suggest watching some fiddler vids on YouTube just to see how they handle the bow since your control is getting better."
1 point for paying attention to how others play. Looks like i'll be going to sessions more often ;)
JosephC Thanks for the Invite! my first invite to a session! Thanks!
"That's one of the reasons that it's good to practice slowly, and concentrate on trying to make it sound as good as you can."
2 points for having slow practices
And i've seen hints and tips in there about bringing the music to life scattered in some of your posts. As i always say when i'm satisfied, Good Stuff!
"If I were you, I'd cut out completely that 'lilt' that you're putting in there when you play the tunes slowly. I think playing the tunes straight and slow will help your timing overall."
It makes sense, but i'll have to see what the others posters say about this. But for now, it sounds good.
"Try to loosen up your wrist a bit. There's a bit of movement from the shoulder which is making for a slight 'sawing' sound when you play. To do this, try practising tunes with, in the bow arm, only wrist movement. "
My fiddle teacher talked about this one and showed me some exercises. I'll have to practice them again, i've been slacking.
"it's still a bit 'one note per bow'. You need to try mixing it up a bit. Make yourself invent new ways to tie notes together"
3 points for bowing.
So overall, work on my bowing rhythms and technique. One of the many things i'll be practicing during my 6 months of "Tune Sharpening" With this i'll also work on practicing slowly.
Keep it up, Jerone. Imagine that that bow is a wee bit sticky - covered in jam - when you come off the driven note you have to give it a wee flick. The accented notes just linger a touch.
If "The Rolling Wave" was the name Willie Clancy knew it by you can probably say it is well established under that title!
"Imagine that that bow is a wee bit sticky - covered in jam - when you come off the driven note you have to give it a wee flick. The accented notes just linger a touch."
It's not easy to explain when you are not both in the same place with a fiddle. Just listen more to the good players.
That first down bow in the humours of Glendart for example - imagine that your bow is (slightly) sticky and you have to give a slight flick to change to an up bow. Don't overdo it, mind, but it can help to impart that 'lilt'.
Oooohhhhh, i get it now. I know what you're talking about.I've been hearing it, but didn't know where it came from cause i noticed it wasn't a melodic ornament. Cool.
Not bad for 5 months. Try not to give one note to one bow if you get what I mean. It makes it sound choppy. Also, you're inclined to restrict yourself to just the top of the bow. Try to use as much of the bow as you can (preferably the middle). Other than that I have to say it has come on fairly quickly!
Now, after having several posters repeat it, i think i'm beginning to understand how "one note to one bow" affects my playing. I think i've made the right decision about re-learning the "Special 25" tunes for the next couple months or so.
illustrates well the way the bow can be used to pick out beat 3 of a reel. you can see clearly that while his foot is coming down on beat 1, the bow comes down on beat 3 with a clean short stroke. Not all the time, but enough to give a nice, driving rhythm.
(im back at home, so can't view the video until later) Speaking of "Driving", i've been learning "The Castle"(Aka: Dick Gossips) And, even though i'm familiar with the driving thing, i can't accomplish it myself. It's lifeless and "blah" when i play, and i've been experimenting with the bowing since i began learning it. It's dead. But i won't worry about it for now, it's only near 2 weeks new. But one day, it'll be fun and lively to play.
Jerone, there are some related elements between what SandyBottoms and I were talking about, but they really are two fairly distinct ideas.
I think was SandyBottoms was saying is that you're sort of manhandling the instrument, and not allowing it to resonate. That is related to the "wall of sound", for sure. But allowing a tune to breathe is more than that. You don't have to have notes flowing out every second. The space between the notes is something that really helps shape the notes and make the music more expressive.
Listen to flute players, who actually *have* to leave spaces between notes to breathe. It's also easy to spot what I'm talking about by listening to good uilleann pipers. The uilleann pipes can be closed off by covering all the holes, and placing the chanter on the leg. So compared to highland bagpipes, which are always emitting sound, you get a much more lyrical feel to it when the piper can place space between the notes.
It's also important to note that pipers can basically only play at one volume, so if you listen closely to how they phrase the music with ornaments/articulation and the space between the notes, it can really help you understand how to make the music come alive!
This is not Irish style playing, however, I think this is one of the best bow arm videos I've stumbled across.
Buddy is using a minimalist technique favoured by many older players, trust me despite his apparent small amount of movement and light touch his fiddle is blasting. Natalie has a great toe tap, and a huge amount of body animation, but when you get her down to brass tacks, her bow arm is solid, yet still light. It would be impossible to play at this speed if they were crushing their strings/manhandling their fiddles.
There is also lots and lots of breathing space in their playing without loss of pulse or connectivity to the tunes. OK so these two are elite. What has that got to do with you? Pay attention to the people who know what they are doing, and you will gain ground even more quickly.
I didn't like the jig video as much as the reel video. I have to be honest. Keep it up though!
This post got me to thinking, what kind of playing do you enjoy listening to? I love to listen to this Cape Breton stuff, often recognizing that if I were to attempt to play it, I would be back to square one... despite my years of playing Irish style! Even though they are closely related.
It is important that you find Irish players you enjoy listening to. Buy the James Kelly CD's, they are very pleasant, some people like Tommy Peoples... Brian Conway has a very polished and enjoyable sound.... etc. Find some CD's you love. I personally endorse the whole Matt Molloy selection, including the live session recordings... a good CD is "Music at Matt Molloy's" it's downloadable on itunes.
Hi Fiddlelearner, for what its worth I thing your doing amazingly well 5 months and you really seem to be geting a very good basic understanding of this music, you can clearly see that you have listened to what advice people have given and are also listening carefuly to the music itself .
Its also great that your shareing your journy with us I would love to see what your doing in 5 years, definetly moving in the right direction !!!
Cheers, Keep up the good work ......
Thanks everyone for all the support, great advice, and encouraging words. And thanks for being patient enough with me to see that i'm actually very serious about this. Oh and, even though i'm not a musicologist, i'm not a wind-up either :P (well, not intentionally anyway)
You've softened the hearts of the grumpy gits and cynics who frequent this website; not to mention you'll be bloody good in five years at the rate you're going. Definitely well done on both counts.
Jerone, that's an absolutely brilliant observation, and a remarkably keen understanding for one so new to this music. Honestly, that's just about the most profound comment I've read on this forum.
You get it! That's what this is all about. Owning the tunes, making them yours, living inside them until they are as much a part of you as breathing.
Hold on to that, and all the rest (technique, lilt, pulse, tone) will come.
"You get it! That's what this is all about. Owning the tunes, making them yours, living inside them until they are as much a part of you as breathing."
Thanks Will And with this i understand even more why it's so important to listen listen listen. And watch if i get the chance. ITM being such a foreign style, there's really no other way.
I'm actually kindof embarrassed about some of my previous post. Some of my very, VERY ugly sides came out. Including the infamous, annoying, "i'm right and all of you are wrong" side. But looking back, i'm glad i learned the things about myself that i did, here. Then i could work on fixing them. For anyone that cares, working on my communication skills has become a priority in my real "face to face" life. I understand that alot of things that went wrong were my fault. But hey, at least i learned something aye? Isn't that what life and music are all about? Living and learning.
Coming along nicely. Your rhythm is steady on the slow clip, which is really good.
One comment. To my ear you have a bit too much unevenness in the groups of three notes. It sounds almost like a dotted rhythm. Perhaps you are trying a little too hard for lilt and overshooting the mark.
"...Perhaps you are trying a little too hard for lilt and overshooting the mark." A session mate made a similar comment. But it's so subtle... My teacher confirmed this when he showed me some of the little things that affected the rhythm and lilt.
I think your lilt will come naturally as you build a relationship with each tune, yes literally tune by tune.
Don't try to hard... is definately sound advice. Work on your fundmentals, and staying in control of your tone/volume/timing, that is quite a lot right there!! If those three are lacking or poorly controlled, what good does a superimposed attempt at stucturing the dynamic so to affect lilt? Turns into a wreck is what happens.
I agree Sandy, i'm still learning how much MORE control you need when playing this instrument especially. It's turning out to be more like singing than i realized. You know, how even a *little* lack of confidence makes your voice quiver. If your posture is bad, it affects EVERYTHING. Breathing and controlling your phrases. Warming up is essential, especially for beginners. Taking good care of your vocal cords. All of these can be directly translated in playing Fiddle/Violin.
The thing that really frustrate me here is how even the tiniest error in tuning can throw your entire playing out. I've got some peg problems on my fiddle here, and some days it's almost impossible to get it right.
On a fretted instrument, at least everything is kept *vaguely* in check with itself, but the consequences of having one string on the fiddle even a little out are dire. Finger positions go all over the place for a start...
Yea ian, i know what you're saying. One day i picked up my fiddle and tried to just start playing it. Something was wrong.... wierd and my intonation was ridiculously horrible. It wasn't in tune. I didn't expect that cause i hadn't messed with the thermostat or traveled with it but somehow it went outof tune anyway :/
Jerone,
fair play, you are doing really great for the short time at it!
As a fiddler myself I would only say to make sure you give the long notes all their time,& I'd try to move up to using the middle part of the bow more, everything will sound a bit more Crunchy & strange, but that will pass.... but I believe there is more control & power to be had the closer you bow hand is to the strings.
Have you tried flicking your 3rd finger on the first half of that long D, in the first bar of Rolling Wave?.
Not making finger board contact, but just the string, as an accent while your doing the long D?
Lots of cool flicky stuff to learn, n its not hard really
Listen & absorb & you will play real good.
Cheers mate
Roger Burridge
Oh Jerone...I'm a big believer of "Gaps" in a tune....like a long two noter, or dotted quarter would have the last note left silent, I find it adds great affect.Tommy Peoples is a magician with Gaps
Roger
Thanks Roger I don't know why, but for a while i thought ornaments weren't put on open strings. I know that they are now, but for a lot of the time i've been doing this i hadn't been practicing "finger flicks" in open strings. So i'm trying to catch up now with that. You're right, it's not hard, especially now that my fingers are getting to be really flexibile
Some of my Jig progress...
Some of my Jig progress...
Advice and Criticism is very welcome! Emphasis on the Criticism!
It's ok, i've braced myself...
Slow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD6QoPpsn6A
Fast
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXeXgobf4qw
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Hi Jerone, wow all that in 5months? You are doing great!
I think everything is in line given the time you've been playing. Don't be in a rush to grow up as they say. One pointer, from my style viewpoint, is more fluidity. Try slowing things down and tie your notes together like you were singing them. You'll find that a note to each bow doesn't always produce the sound you are ultimately looking for. Imagine in your mind how you want it to sound, and keep trying to replicate that... Good stuff, keep it up...
Peter
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by celticturntable
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
You just need to learn the proper name of that second tune, everyone I know calls it The Rolling Waves!
Good job!
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
I like the name "Humors of Trim" more ;) It does have that name also
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
And so i don't recieve any undo credit, i want to make clear. I've been playing ITM for about 5 months, but i've been practicing Fiddle and Violin techniques for about 1 and a half years.
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Look here in the tunes section at the comments on that tune, Jerone, it is a great example of a tune that can be played many different ways, including C naturals instead of C sharps, which gives it a whole different feel.
You look like you are having fun, keep it up!
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Isn't it called Humours of Trim in O'Neill's? I think the "Rolling Waves" name got pinned on it much more recently (notably by Kevin Crawford on his In Good Company cd). I could be wrong.
Good job Jerone. I like how you smooth out the timing in the faster clip--to me, the timing is actually better on that clip than the slow one. Doing well on most of your rolls, too. It's one thing to get the twiddly bits working at all, and a whole 'nuther thing to become consistent with them. But you'll get there sooner than later.
The more you play, the more efficient your bowing motions will become, too, and that will help a lot toward smoothing out your overall feel and sound. Remind yourself now and then to use less bow--don't need to move the whole forearm unless for a long note or slur. Often just a relaxed lift or dip of the bow hand itself is all that's needed for short notes.
As celticturntable says, add in some slurs. A common slur in Irish jigs is just two notes, on to the 1 of a 1-2-3 from the previous 3.
1-2-3 1-2-(3 1)-2-3 1-2-3 and so on.
Keep on keeping on!
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
I concur. You are making good progress. Keep climbing the mountain.
As for the fluidity, yes. It's a bit like learning hammer-ons and pull-offs on the guitar. You get used to picking at every note and then try to add in this other note in between some of the right hand action.
I would also suggest watching some fiddler vids on YouTube just to see how they handle the bow since your control is getting better.
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by MorganYYZ
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Hey Jerome, I'm quite enjoying seeing your progress in playing fiddle!
BTW, I notice you're from Round Rock.
If ever you're up in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, please don't hesitate to drop myself or some of the other DFW players in the area and pop into one of the sessions we have this area, we'd love to have you
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by JosephC
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Well, you may not be a musicologist ;) but you're sure on the way with the fiddle. Will's comments on bowing are good ones. I'm told (and even discovered a bit when I played for just a brief period of time) that practice definitely does two things for the bow arm: It shortens up the stroke needed for given notes and it improves the quality of the sound. I'm sure you'll have all that under control as time goes on. I also like the changes in things on second time around. It is easy to see that you've listened to the music and to the comments out here and learned from them. I also like the fast version better. There's a better sense of direction there I think.
Do stay with it. You're going to play very well.
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by cboody
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Oh, and yes, keep on playing and practicing, it sounds great! :D
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by JosephC
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
So how is my lilt? Is it getting closer to sounding Irish?
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Hey Jerone,
You're doing better than a lot of people that have been playing longer than you. That's a testament to your dedication, and all of the work that you're putting into it!
I agree with Will, I think the timing got more consistent when you were playing faster. Once you have the skills to play fast, it's generally easier to play fast and have it sound OK than it is to play slowly. When you're playing at a slower tempo, it amplifies things like issues with timing and phrasing, because you have so much more time to notice them. That's one of the reasons that it's good to practice slowly, and concentrate on trying to make it sound as good as you can. (Don't get me wrong, it's good to practice faster too...)
One thing I noticed is that there is sort of a "wall of sound" coming out when you're playing. All the notes sound about the same volume, and there isn't much space being given to the tune. Next time you listen to a recording of an experienced fiddler playing solo, try listening for the space between the notes, and the differences in dynamics that are used in the phrasing. Learn to let the tune breathe. It's that space and the dynamics, combined with the articulations that can help it sound more lyrical.
Keep it up!
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by Reverend
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Oh yea Reverend, i noticed the "wall of sound" as well. But i thought it was something that came from my lack of experience. They say the Fiddle/Violin is a very dynamic instrument, but i can't get the thing to quiet down for anything. I'll take your advice and work on "letting the tune breath". Maybe this will help me out with what Sandy was talking about in the other thread about "Overtones", and crushing them if i'm not careful. I think there's a link in there between both of your ideas.
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
SandyBottoms
"you needed to loosen up. I think your playing has great volume and energy, but you were crushing your overtones. One great way to improve your playing on fiddle is the conscious decision to allow your fiddle to resonate between bow strokes so the notes layer a little... ...keeping a light enough touch on your bow arm as you change bow directions that your overtones, don't get crushed by the next note/bow direction change."
Reverend
"All the notes sound about the same volume, and there isn't much space being given to the tune. Next time you listen to a recording of an experienced fiddler playing solo, try listening for the space between the notes, and the differences in dynamics that are used in the phrasing. Learn to let the tune breathe. It's that space and the dynamics, combined with the articulations that can help it sound more lyrical."
Link or no link?
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Not bad! I have three specific pieces of advice that I think might help:
1) When you're practising slower, play with more even rhythm than you're doing. Concentrate on getting nice, even rhythm. If I were you, I'd cut out completely that 'lilt' that you're putting in there when you play the tunes slowly. I think playing the tunes straight and slow will help your timing overall.
2) Try to loosen up your wrist a bit. There's a bit of movement from the shoulder which is making for a slight 'sawing' sound when you play. To do this, try practising tunes with, in the bow arm, only wrist movement. Cut out shoulder and even elbow movement when you do this. Johnny Cunningham once told me that his father (or was it his grandfather?) made him practise with his bow arm hooked round a chair, so that he could only play with the wrist. Now Johhny was an extreme example, but you still need more flexibility than you're getting.
3) Even though you have got some nice ornaments going that break up the rhythm, it's still a bit 'one note per bow'. You need to try mixing it up a bit. Make yourself invent new ways to tie notes together - over the half bar, over the bar line, four note together, two notes together. You won't use everything, but it should free up your bowing.
Dang! I've thought of a fourth thing - I think it would be worth trying to get your left hand fingers to hammer down more on the strings - basically to move quicker and also to press harder. Trouble is, you've got to be able to do this without stiffening up. Thnking about it, maybe best nmot do anything on this without a teacher around to guide you.
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by ethical blend
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Yea, you're doing well so far. When you get your foot to move in time with the music you'll be half-way there
Here's something you can try:-
taking the rhythm to be123-456, play a slow version just as you did in the video, but this time playing really quietly -- as quietly as you can -- except for beat 4, which you play as LOUDLY as you can, while still maintaining the same flow. You'll become very aware of the direction your bow, and once you begin to get that right, you will hear the 4-notes clearly sounding. When you can get right through the tune without having to correct the bow direction, then gradually begin to play more 'normally', with less -- but still some -- emphasis on the louder notes.
When you've got the hang of that, do the same with the emphasis on beat 1. then go for a lie down. You'll need it
You can do this with reels as well, emphasising beat 3. It really lifts the music, as well as helping with your bowing.
Well done.
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by gam
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
"Try slowing things down and tie your notes together like you were singing them. You'll find that a note to each bow doesn't always produce the sound you are ultimately looking for"
1 point for bowing
1 point for practicing slower
"Remind yourself now and then to use less bow--don't need to move the whole forearm unless for a long note or slur. Often just a relaxed lift or dip of the bow hand itself is all that's needed for short notes."
2 points for bowing
"I would also suggest watching some fiddler vids on YouTube just to see how they handle the bow since your control is getting better."
1 point for paying attention to how others play. Looks like i'll be going to sessions more often ;)
JosephC Thanks for the Invite! my first invite to a session! Thanks!
"That's one of the reasons that it's good to practice slowly, and concentrate on trying to make it sound as good as you can."
2 points for having slow practices
And i've seen hints and tips in there about bringing the music to life scattered in some of your posts. As i always say when i'm satisfied, Good Stuff!
"If I were you, I'd cut out completely that 'lilt' that you're putting in there when you play the tunes slowly. I think playing the tunes straight and slow will help your timing overall."
It makes sense, but i'll have to see what the others posters say about this. But for now, it sounds good.
"Try to loosen up your wrist a bit. There's a bit of movement from the shoulder which is making for a slight 'sawing' sound when you play. To do this, try practising tunes with, in the bow arm, only wrist movement. "
My fiddle teacher talked about this one and showed me some exercises. I'll have to practice them again, i've been slacking.
"it's still a bit 'one note per bow'. You need to try mixing it up a bit. Make yourself invent new ways to tie notes together"
3 points for bowing.
So overall, work on my bowing rhythms and technique. One of the many things i'll be practicing during my 6 months of "Tune Sharpening" With this i'll also work on practicing slowly.
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Keep it up, Jerone. Imagine that that bow is a wee bit sticky - covered in jam - when you come off the driven note you have to give it a wee flick. The accented notes just linger a touch.
If "The Rolling Wave" was the name Willie Clancy knew it by you can probably say it is well established under that title!
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by Weejie
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
"Imagine that that bow is a wee bit sticky - covered in jam - when you come off the driven note you have to give it a wee flick. The accented notes just linger a touch."
I'm sorry Weejie, i don't quite understand :/
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
It's not easy to explain when you are not both in the same place with a fiddle. Just listen more to the good players.
That first down bow in the humours of Glendart for example - imagine that your bow is (slightly) sticky and you have to give a slight flick to change to an up bow. Don't overdo it, mind, but it can help to impart that 'lilt'.
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by Weejie
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Oooohhhhh, i get it now. I know what you're talking about.I've been hearing it, but didn't know where it came from cause i noticed it wasn't a melodic ornament. Cool.
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Not bad for 5 months. Try not to give one note to one bow if you get what I mean. It makes it sound choppy. Also, you're inclined to restrict yourself to just the top of the bow. Try to use as much of the bow as you can (preferably the middle). Other than that I have to say it has come on fairly quickly!
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by Patrick Murray
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Now, after having several posters repeat it, i think i'm beginning to understand how "one note to one bow" affects my playing. I think i've made the right decision about re-learning the "Special 25" tunes for the next couple months or so.
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
The clip posted above this one by fiddleruairi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctj5Y_YtYBo
illustrates well the way the bow can be used to pick out beat 3 of a reel. you can see clearly that while his foot is coming down on beat 1, the bow comes down on beat 3 with a clean short stroke. Not all the time, but enough to give a nice, driving rhythm.
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by gam
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
(im back at home, so can't view the video until later) Speaking of "Driving", i've been learning "The Castle"(Aka: Dick Gossips) And, even though i'm familiar with the driving thing, i can't accomplish it myself. It's lifeless and "blah" when i play, and i've been experimenting with the bowing since i began learning it. It's dead. But i won't worry about it for now, it's only near 2 weeks new. But one day, it'll be fun and lively to play.
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Jerone, there are some related elements between what SandyBottoms and I were talking about, but they really are two fairly distinct ideas.
I think was SandyBottoms was saying is that you're sort of manhandling the instrument, and not allowing it to resonate. That is related to the "wall of sound", for sure. But allowing a tune to breathe is more than that. You don't have to have notes flowing out every second. The space between the notes is something that really helps shape the notes and make the music more expressive.
Listen to flute players, who actually *have* to leave spaces between notes to breathe. It's also easy to spot what I'm talking about by listening to good uilleann pipers. The uilleann pipes can be closed off by covering all the holes, and placing the chanter on the leg. So compared to highland bagpipes, which are always emitting sound, you get a much more lyrical feel to it when the piper can place space between the notes.
It's also important to note that pipers can basically only play at one volume, so if you listen closely to how they phrase the music with ornaments/articulation and the space between the notes, it can really help you understand how to make the music come alive!
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by Reverend
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
That's a nice wee Bow style you getting there, I like it !
Keep Going at that.. Its not so far from the fiddler here in the Green
jumper / sweater -- Maybe a man for ' You to Watch '
jim,,,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W8zo8WvOcU
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by FIDDLE4
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbY-LpV3K-k
This is not Irish style playing, however, I think this is one of the best bow arm videos I've stumbled across.
Buddy is using a minimalist technique favoured by many older players, trust me despite his apparent small amount of movement and light touch his fiddle is blasting. Natalie has a great toe tap, and a huge amount of body animation, but when you get her down to brass tacks, her bow arm is solid, yet still light. It would be impossible to play at this speed if they were crushing their strings/manhandling their fiddles.
There is also lots and lots of breathing space in their playing without loss of pulse or connectivity to the tunes. OK so these two are elite. What has that got to do with you? Pay attention to the people who know what they are doing, and you will gain ground even more quickly.
I didn't like the jig video as much as the reel video. I have to be honest. Keep it up though!
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by SandyBottoms
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
This post got me to thinking, what kind of playing do you enjoy listening to? I love to listen to this Cape Breton stuff, often recognizing that if I were to attempt to play it, I would be back to square one... despite my years of playing Irish style! Even though they are closely related.
It is important that you find Irish players you enjoy listening to. Buy the James Kelly CD's, they are very pleasant, some people like Tommy Peoples... Brian Conway has a very polished and enjoyable sound.... etc. Find some CD's you love. I personally endorse the whole Matt Molloy selection, including the live session recordings... a good CD is "Music at Matt Molloy's" it's downloadable on itunes.
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by SandyBottoms
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
The Burnt Old Man - You may come across that tune in Scotland as 'The Campbells are comin' Hard to know which came first.
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by Free Reed
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Sandy, i really enjoy listening to Mairead Ni Mhaonaigh. She's so "Wild" and "Free" when she plays... as if she wrote all the tunes herself.
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Hi Fiddlelearner, for what its worth I thing your doing amazingly well 5 months and you really seem to be geting a very good basic understanding of this music, you can clearly see that you have listened to what advice people have given and are also listening carefuly to the music itself .
Its also great that your shareing your journy with us I would love to see what your doing in 5 years, definetly moving in the right direction !!!
Cheers, Keep up the good work ......
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by tealach
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Thanks everyone for all the support, great advice, and encouraging words. And thanks for being patient enough with me to see that i'm actually very serious about this. Oh and, even though i'm not a musicologist, i'm not a wind-up either :P (well, not intentionally anyway)
# Posted on May 26th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
You've softened the hearts of the grumpy gits and cynics who frequent this website; not to mention you'll be bloody good in five years at the rate you're going.
Definitely well done on both counts.
# Posted on May 27th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Thanks a lot TSS
# Posted on May 27th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
"....as if she wrote all the tunes herself."
Jerone, that's an absolutely brilliant observation, and a remarkably keen understanding for one so new to this music. Honestly, that's just about the most profound comment I've read on this forum.
You get it! That's what this is all about. Owning the tunes, making them yours, living inside them until they are as much a part of you as breathing.
Hold on to that, and all the rest (technique, lilt, pulse, tone) will come.
# Posted on May 27th 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
What grumpy gits?
# Posted on May 27th 2011 by ethical blend
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
"You get it! That's what this is all about. Owning the tunes, making them yours, living inside them until they are as much a part of you as breathing."
And with this i understand even more why it's so important to listen listen listen. And watch if i get the chance. ITM being such a foreign style, there's really no other way.
Thanks Will
# Posted on May 27th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
All the ones who had a go at Jerone when he first started posting about "Celtic" music.
# Posted on May 27th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
I'm actually kindof embarrassed about some of my previous post. Some of my very, VERY ugly sides came out. Including the infamous, annoying, "i'm right and all of you are wrong" side. But looking back, i'm glad i learned the things about myself that i did, here. Then i could work on fixing them. For anyone that cares, working on my communication skills has become a priority in my real "face to face" life. I understand that alot of things that went wrong were my fault. But hey, at least i learned something aye? Isn't that what life and music are all about? Living and learning.
# Posted on May 27th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
I think most regulars malfunction on the Board now and then. You got yours in early.
# Posted on May 27th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Haha, nice.
# Posted on May 27th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Coming along nicely. Your rhythm is steady on the slow clip, which is really good.
One comment. To my ear you have a bit too much unevenness in the groups of three notes. It sounds almost like a dotted rhythm. Perhaps you are trying a little too hard for lilt and overshooting the mark.
Have a listen to this Martin Hayes clip. He plays fairly even note lengths but there is still great lift and drive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFTUrGcQN9E
# Posted on May 27th 2011 by ElaineT
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
"...Perhaps you are trying a little too hard for lilt and overshooting the mark." A session mate made a similar comment. But it's so subtle... My teacher confirmed this when he showed me some of the little things that affected the rhythm and lilt.
# Posted on May 27th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
I think your lilt will come naturally as you build a relationship with each tune, yes literally tune by tune.
Don't try to hard... is definately sound advice. Work on your fundmentals, and staying in control of your tone/volume/timing, that is quite a lot right there!! If those three are lacking or poorly controlled, what good does a superimposed attempt at stucturing the dynamic so to affect lilt? Turns into a wreck is what happens.
# Posted on May 28th 2011 by SandyBottoms
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
>>I think most regulars malfunction on the Board now and then
Ma ma ma ma ma ma malfunction n n n n n???
# Posted on May 28th 2011 by ian stock
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
I agree Sandy, i'm still learning how much MORE control you need when playing this instrument especially. It's turning out to be more like singing than i realized. You know, how even a *little* lack of confidence makes your voice quiver. If your posture is bad, it affects EVERYTHING. Breathing and controlling your phrases. Warming up is essential, especially for beginners. Taking good care of your vocal cords. All of these can be directly translated in playing Fiddle/Violin.
# Posted on May 28th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
The thing that really frustrate me here is how even the tiniest error in tuning can throw your entire playing out. I've got some peg problems on my fiddle here, and some days it's almost impossible to get it right.
On a fretted instrument, at least everything is kept *vaguely* in check with itself, but the consequences of having one string on the fiddle even a little out are dire. Finger positions go all over the place for a start...
# Posted on May 28th 2011 by ian stock
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Yea ian, i know what you're saying. One day i picked up my fiddle and tried to just start playing it. Something was wrong.... wierd and my intonation was ridiculously horrible. It wasn't in tune. I didn't expect that cause i hadn't messed with the thermostat or traveled with it but somehow it went outof tune anyway :/
# Posted on May 29th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Jerone,
fair play, you are doing really great for the short time at it!
As a fiddler myself I would only say to make sure you give the long notes all their time,& I'd try to move up to using the middle part of the bow more, everything will sound a bit more Crunchy & strange, but that will pass.... but I believe there is more control & power to be had the closer you bow hand is to the strings.
Have you tried flicking your 3rd finger on the first half of that long D, in the first bar of Rolling Wave?.
Not making finger board contact, but just the string, as an accent while your doing the long D?
Lots of cool flicky stuff to learn, n its not hard really
Listen & absorb & you will play real good.
Cheers mate
Roger Burridge
# Posted on May 30th 2011 by Roger B
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Oh Jerone...I'm a big believer of "Gaps" in a tune....like a long two noter, or dotted quarter would have the last note left silent, I find it adds great affect.Tommy Peoples is a magician with Gaps
Roger
# Posted on May 30th 2011 by Roger B
Re: Some of my Jig progress...
Thanks Roger
I don't know why, but for a while i thought ornaments weren't put on open strings. I know that they are now, but for a lot of the time i've been doing this i hadn't been practicing "finger flicks" in open strings. So i'm trying to catch up now with that. You're right, it's not hard, especially now that my fingers are getting to be really flexibile 
# Posted on June 5th 2011 by fiddlelearner