I just tried out recording using my computer, to see how well it would work. The recording quality is excellent. The playing is cr@p. Anyone else suffer severe confidence deflation through recording?
Good, Great, Players don't try to play. Lose your need to sound good! Crazy I know. When you don't need to sound good or need to impress you will find that you will play better. Relax, don't give a damn and just play. It will work out for you.
I envy and admire a player who can honestly say, "I am a bad musician." I can say it, all right, but it would probably just be false modesty. I could ask the opinions of others, but they are purely subjective - and how do I know they are being honest, anyway? On the odd occasion when someone has been honest enough to call me a bad musician, I've gone off to seek consolation in a second opinion.
How good or bad I think I am depends on what company I'm in, what players I've been listening to, the opinions or reactions of others, my seratonin level, the weather, how much coffee I've had to drink and, to a small extent, how good or bad I am.
The truth is elusive, which is probably a good thing, as I might well not like it if I knew it.
You just have to get used to listening to your recordings. Play it to someone - he/she/it will not notice three-fourths of mistakes you perceive as punishable by painful death, and you'll see others are much more forgiving than you are - usually. You are just very focused on yourself (don't take it personally - everyone is). Normal stuff
I hate listening or watching recordings of myself - I always see mistakes, mistakes, stupid and senseless mistakes. But there is no better way to improve than feedback... Remember, being bad means you have plenty of room for improvement. Forget shame, concentrate on improvement and fun. Do not compare yerself to others - what for? Play for yerself.
And there is nothing more hampering than being sure of one's ultimate skill. Once I met this guy at some summer camp, we started chatting away about music, of course. He asked me what do I play. I said I'm learning guitar. He responded: Oh yeah, I already learned to play the guitar (finished action!). Now I'm looking for something new." "I asked him: surely you meant you stopped learning?" "Nope, he said, I finished it, I know everything about guitar already".
He was a deathmetal guitarist, and not the best at all, but through his completeness and ultimate skill he didn't notice that you can play actually by plucking not bashing. And he couldn't find any remotest connection between expressions "guitar", "acoustic" and "suspended fourth"
when i'm in the company of good players and i hear myself on recording i often surprise myself. 'wow, that's pretty good' or 'whose that whistle player dead on the beat, oh wait, thats me!' it's like playing tennis with somebody who is way better than me--it often brings out the best, although i still end up getting whopped. It's when i'm playing by myself when the true horror kicks in...
I play better with others who don't mind being recorded.
Gave up listening to myself make a hash of trying to be perfect, so have little idea how I sound, although I suspect it's pretty brilliant. (HA)
Maybe I could organise spouse to secretly record me. Trouble is the stamping, swearing and general teeth gnashing that takes up 95% of any time I play!
I think we're all probably our own harshest critics, when it comes to listening to recordings of our playing. But, having just finished a demo CD with my bandmates, over a 3 month time period (we all have day jobs and "real lives"), I can attest to the benefits of hearing yourself recorded. It's relentless, but one of the fastest ways to improve your overall performance. And, although it's frustrating, because we're now better than the demo (we've also been practising a LOT), that is also proven with the tape deck.
And while it's a great tool for improvement, I also have a sneaking suspicion that even the best musos have to reach a point where they tell themselves, "OK, that's good enough", in spite of the always (perceived) imperfections.
And I agree Janek....if you ever reach the point where you feel like you've learned/know it all...better go back to square one.
It's probably a good idea to record yourself on a regular basis. Then when you go back and listen to what you have done 3, 6, or 12 months ago, you probably find out that you have improved, maybe even improved a lot (hope springs eternal). With all these great musicians around to take as "standard" to compare oneself with, one just has to sound bad and I assume that we all, quite naturally, keep pushing our expectations higher and higher. But as long as we keep learning and praciticing, we will improve. So theoretically, it's only a question of time when we will be as good as the great ones... Just listen to me in 100 years or so!
As Janek says - you notice things in your playing that others don't. It's like the cracks in the ceiling - you see yours, but you don't notice them in other peoples houses.
The thing that always surprises me about recordings of my playing is not so much the good or bad of it, but how different it sounds.
Of course this reflects the quality of the recording as well as the playing.
Not meaning to hijack, but just as a complementary part to the discussion - have you ever had someone else play your instrument and heard how it sounds from a different position. When I do any work on instruments I always get someone else to play them so I can hear the sound from the listeners position as well as the players position.
It's a more noticeable effect with some instruments than others. A mandolin played by someone else sounds very different from playing it yourself, whereas with a flute (in my experience) the effect is far less noticeable.
Anyone else have a love/hate relationship going with the Music?
I shift about, some days I think my playing is just awful, and hopeless, and I can't bear to even look at a flute or whistle (if I hear the Music I either turn it right off or leave the room or sulk).
Then, after a while the guilt kicks in, until I can't take it any more, and come running home from work, head into my room with a bag full of whistles and play wild, passionate tunes until dawn, leaving me exhausted and mind-numbed, but with that overall ambient feeling of... relief/joy/satisfaction/happiness.
Do you think this is a variant of Seishunal Affliction Disorder, or do I just have intimacy issues?
Re. listening to recordings: I've noticed that if I listen to a recording of someone else, but put myself in the same frame of mind *as if* I was listening to myself, I find many more mistakes, and am much more critical than when I was just sitting back and listening. This gives me a fraction more confidence...
If you deliberately set out to record yourself solo, I think you become much more conscious of your playing. You'll notice imperfections more and probably be very tense to start with, in any case. I've found that if I just leave the recorder running and don't think about it--especially in a session situation--it doesn't sound so bad. It's probably a closer account of how you normally sound as well.
Dave. Just in case, you've come back here, I agree with you that the mandolin sounds much different when you are playing it yourself. Sometimes, if I give someone else a shot, I'm amazed at how much more it sounds like a mandolin than when I play--not talking about technical ability here, just the sound of the instrument. I have been assured (or reassured) that when I play the instrument, it does sound like a mandolin and have confirmed this by listening to a recording. Although the mandolin is a quiet instrument, it's probably much louder in a session than we actually think as the sound is projected outwards. That's either comforting or alarming ? to know. :>))
Solo recordings are different from group recordings in many ways but most importantly, there is no SYNERGY that occurs in the group dynamics. That is what gets the listeners and the performers. Alone I am Bad. When I feel the guitar backing me, my personality changes to one of believer. Hey I can do this, or the guitarist is more liberal than I thought.
When you're practising an instrument where the sound goes away from you - mandolin, guitar, etc - it's useful to sit facing into the corner of a room, and then the sound gets reflected back at you from the corner, and you've got a much better idea of what an audience would hear. I used to do this many years ago in my classical guitar-playing days.
With a fiddle it's entirely different. With the standard playing position the belly of the instrument is right under the ear and you hear all the bow hisses and scrapes, and the sound of the fingers on the strings, but these noises don't extend for more than a few feet at the most, so the audience doesn't hear them. To get an idea of what the fiddle really sounds like to an audience, take off the shoulder-rest and hold the fiddle so that it points downwards at about 45 degrees and a bit to the side (very 18c style!). Your left arm will be close to your side from the elbow up. You'll now hear far less of the bow noises because the instrument is now no longer directly under your ear and the sound is directed away from you. Now do what I suggested for the mandolin: play into a corner of a room so that the sound gets reflected back to you.
Trevor
How bad d'you think you are?
How bad d'you think you are?
I just tried out recording using my computer, to see how well it would work. The recording quality is excellent. The playing is cr@p. Anyone else suffer severe confidence deflation through recording?
Anyway, it's time to try to get better...
# Posted on January 23rd 2004 by grego
Re: How bad d'you think you are?
It gets even worse (in my case) if you record yourself in a session with good players. Groan!
# Posted on January 23rd 2004 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: How bad d'you think you are?
Good, Great, Players don't try to play. Lose your need to sound good! Crazy I know. When you don't need to sound good or need to impress you will find that you will play better. Relax, don't give a damn and just play. It will work out for you.
# Posted on January 23rd 2004 by peaktinman
Re: How bad d'you think you are?
I envy and admire a player who can honestly say, "I am a bad musician." I can say it, all right, but it would probably just be false modesty. I could ask the opinions of others, but they are purely subjective - and how do I know they are being honest, anyway? On the odd occasion when someone has been honest enough to call me a bad musician, I've gone off to seek consolation in a second opinion.
How good or bad I think I am depends on what company I'm in, what players I've been listening to, the opinions or reactions of others, my seratonin level, the weather, how much coffee I've had to drink and, to a small extent, how good or bad I am.
The truth is elusive, which is probably a good thing, as I might well not like it if I knew it.
# Posted on January 24th 2004 by ragaman
Re: How bad d'you think you are?
You just have to get used to listening to your recordings. Play it to someone - he/she/it will not notice three-fourths of mistakes you perceive as punishable by painful death, and you'll see others are much more forgiving than you are - usually. You are just very focused on yourself (don't take it personally - everyone is). Normal stuff
I hate listening or watching recordings of myself - I always see mistakes, mistakes, stupid and senseless mistakes. But there is no better way to improve than feedback... Remember, being bad means you have plenty of room for improvement. Forget shame, concentrate on improvement and fun. Do not compare yerself to others - what for? Play for yerself.
And there is nothing more hampering than being sure of one's ultimate skill. Once I met this guy at some summer camp, we started chatting away about music, of course. He asked me what do I play. I said I'm learning guitar. He responded: Oh yeah, I already learned to play the guitar (finished action!). Now I'm looking for something new." "I asked him: surely you meant you stopped learning?" "Nope, he said, I finished it, I know everything about guitar already".
He was a deathmetal guitarist, and not the best at all, but through his completeness and ultimate skill he didn't notice that you can play actually by plucking not bashing. And he couldn't find any remotest connection between expressions "guitar", "acoustic" and "suspended fourth"
# Posted on January 24th 2004 by EastPole
Re: How bad d'you think you are?
when i'm in the company of good players and i hear myself on recording i often surprise myself. 'wow, that's pretty good' or 'whose that whistle player dead on the beat, oh wait, thats me!' it's like playing tennis with somebody who is way better than me--it often brings out the best, although i still end up getting whopped. It's when i'm playing by myself when the true horror kicks in...
# Posted on January 24th 2004 by Brendan
Re: How bad d'you think you are?
I play better with others who don't mind being recorded.
Gave up listening to myself make a hash of trying to be perfect, so have little idea how I sound, although I suspect it's pretty brilliant. (HA)
Maybe I could organise spouse to secretly record me. Trouble is the stamping, swearing and general teeth gnashing that takes up 95% of any time I play!
# Posted on January 24th 2004 by Susie-Lee
Re: How bad d'you think you are?
I think we're all probably our own harshest critics, when it comes to listening to recordings of our playing. But, having just finished a demo CD with my bandmates, over a 3 month time period (we all have day jobs and "real lives"), I can attest to the benefits of hearing yourself recorded. It's relentless, but one of the fastest ways to improve your overall performance. And, although it's frustrating, because we're now better than the demo (we've also been practising a LOT), that is also proven with the tape deck.
And while it's a great tool for improvement, I also have a sneaking suspicion that even the best musos have to reach a point where they tell themselves, "OK, that's good enough", in spite of the always (perceived) imperfections.
And I agree Janek....if you ever reach the point where you feel like you've learned/know it all...better go back to square one.
# Posted on January 24th 2004 by ketida
Re: How bad d'you think you are?
It's probably a good idea to record yourself on a regular basis. Then when you go back and listen to what you have done 3, 6, or 12 months ago, you probably find out that you have improved, maybe even improved a lot (hope springs eternal). With all these great musicians around to take as "standard" to compare oneself with, one just has to sound bad and I assume that we all, quite naturally, keep pushing our expectations higher and higher. But as long as we keep learning and praciticing, we will improve. So theoretically, it's only a question of time when we will be as good as the great ones... Just listen to me in 100 years or so!
# Posted on January 25th 2004 by heike
Re: How bad d'you think you are?
please please please lose this kind of language from your conciousness. It only does you harm
# Posted on January 25th 2004 by llig leahcim
Re: How bad d'you think you are?
As Janek says - you notice things in your playing that others don't. It's like the cracks in the ceiling - you see yours, but you don't notice them in other peoples houses.
The thing that always surprises me about recordings of my playing is not so much the good or bad of it, but how different it sounds.
Of course this reflects the quality of the recording as well as the playing.
Not meaning to hijack, but just as a complementary part to the discussion - have you ever had someone else play your instrument and heard how it sounds from a different position. When I do any work on instruments I always get someone else to play them so I can hear the sound from the listeners position as well as the players position.
It's a more noticeable effect with some instruments than others. A mandolin played by someone else sounds very different from playing it yourself, whereas with a flute (in my experience) the effect is far less noticeable.
Dave
# Posted on January 25th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: How bad d'you think you are?
Anyone else have a love/hate relationship going with the Music?
I shift about, some days I think my playing is just awful, and hopeless, and I can't bear to even look at a flute or whistle (if I hear the Music I either turn it right off or leave the room or sulk).
Then, after a while the guilt kicks in, until I can't take it any more, and come running home from work, head into my room with a bag full of whistles and play wild, passionate tunes until dawn, leaving me exhausted and mind-numbed, but with that overall ambient feeling of... relief/joy/satisfaction/happiness.
Do you think this is a variant of Seishunal Affliction Disorder, or do I just have intimacy issues?
# Posted on January 25th 2004 by Q
Re: How bad d'you think you are?
Re. listening to recordings: I've noticed that if I listen to a recording of someone else, but put myself in the same frame of mind *as if* I was listening to myself, I find many more mistakes, and am much more critical than when I was just sitting back and listening. This gives me a fraction more confidence...
# Posted on January 26th 2004 by rog
Re: How bad d'you think you are?
If you deliberately set out to record yourself solo, I think you become much more conscious of your playing. You'll notice imperfections more and probably be very tense to start with, in any case. I've found that if I just leave the recorder running and don't think about it--especially in a session situation--it doesn't sound so bad. It's probably a closer account of how you normally sound as well.
John
# Posted on January 26th 2004 by Johannes J
Re: How bad d'you think you are?
Matt Q
I understand the bit about playing wild passionat tunes.
You say that Dawn leaves you exhausted and mind numbed but with a feeling of happiness - where does she live?
Dave
# Posted on January 26th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: How bad d'you think you are?
Dave, she's always long gone before I wake up, so I never get the chance to find out. *sigh*
# Posted on January 26th 2004 by Q
Re: How bad d'you think you are?
ROFL -- you two. Dave, does your wife know you're asking after this Dawn chick?
# Posted on January 26th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: How bad d'you think you are?
Dave. Just in case, you've come back here, I agree with you that the mandolin sounds much different when you are playing it yourself. Sometimes, if I give someone else a shot, I'm amazed at how much more it sounds like a mandolin than when I play--not talking about technical ability here, just the sound of the instrument. I have been assured (or reassured) that when I play the instrument, it does sound like a mandolin and have confirmed this by listening to a recording. Although the mandolin is a quiet instrument, it's probably much louder in a session than we actually think as the sound is projected outwards. That's either comforting or alarming ? to know. :>))
John
# Posted on January 26th 2004 by Johannes J
Re: How bad d'you think you are?
Solo recordings are different from group recordings in many ways but most importantly, there is no SYNERGY that occurs in the group dynamics. That is what gets the listeners and the performers. Alone I am Bad. When I feel the guitar backing me, my personality changes to one of believer. Hey I can do this, or the guitarist is more liberal than I thought.
# Posted on January 31st 2004 by windybaer
Re: How bad d'you think you are?
When you're practising an instrument where the sound goes away from you - mandolin, guitar, etc - it's useful to sit facing into the corner of a room, and then the sound gets reflected back at you from the corner, and you've got a much better idea of what an audience would hear. I used to do this many years ago in my classical guitar-playing days.
With a fiddle it's entirely different. With the standard playing position the belly of the instrument is right under the ear and you hear all the bow hisses and scrapes, and the sound of the fingers on the strings, but these noises don't extend for more than a few feet at the most, so the audience doesn't hear them. To get an idea of what the fiddle really sounds like to an audience, take off the shoulder-rest and hold the fiddle so that it points downwards at about 45 degrees and a bit to the side (very 18c style!). Your left arm will be close to your side from the elbow up. You'll now hear far less of the bow noises because the instrument is now no longer directly under your ear and the sound is directed away from you. Now do what I suggested for the mandolin: play into a corner of a room so that the sound gets reflected back to you.
Trevor
# Posted on January 31st 2004 by lazyhound