Sue Bourne’s film, Jig, a documentary about the 40th World Irish Dancing Championships in Glasgow is released this week and has been quite extensively covered in the media in the UK. It seems likely to become a hit in the same way that my Big Fat Gypsy Wedding has attracted attention on UK TV as a kind of cultural freak show, but performed by quite decent ordinary people. The film does try to demonstrate the talent and dedication of the dancers, but you can’t get away from the visual image.
So, I’m perplexed as to what Irish dancing championships have become, a hybridised cultural abstraction of folk dancing and the American pageant shows. The presentation now seems so far removed from its origins. At one end of the Irish traditional spectrum we have a slower evolving song tradition based that laments about displacement and simple beauty, whilst at the other we have a Shirley Temple, mascara and sock glue arms race. And then we have Irish trad music which is evolving and losing its links to Irish dance and vice versa.
Could we see the evolution of Irish step dance as an allegory for Irelands economic and social crisis where the values we had, in the past, assumed were socially embedded, were quickly usurped by increased wealth and materialism? In a few decades the simple, is transformed by capitalism and consumerism into something highly popular, commercially successful, but unrecognisable above the ankle level. Or is it just an unfortunate phase like the rhinestones in country music?
Friends who have kids who are dancing seem to recognise the madness but go along with the indulgence of the competitive feis because they believe the judges will dismiss those who don’t buy in to the grotesque cartoon image: non competitive outlets for step dancing are few. So, this seems like the banking crisis again, or English premiership football where many participants can see the madness, but no-one can stop it.
Now I don’t want culture to be preserved in aspic and I recognise the enjoyment that many get out of this – just why does something so skilful and delightful in its own right have to be made so cheesy and cringe worthy? Maybe my problem!
I think what you are seeing is the inevitable result of competition. It happens whenever you take something artistic and try to make it competitive, from ballroom dancing to surfing.
The obvious answer is to create the dancing equivalent of the session - somewhere that people can go and dance just for the sheer fun of it.
I've only been aware of ITM for the past couple of years or so, but in that time I've been to a few general "Celtic" festivals, and I've become painfully aware of this dichotomy as well. Trad musicians seem to span a wide age range, and a great many of us play for the fun of it. The dancers seem to all be young girls in competitive troupes.
At least we have an active contra dance scene here in central Texas, so there are people dancing to Irish music (mixed with everything else that makes the contra repertoire). I'm making my first trip to Ireland in about a month, and I've been wondering if I'd encounter any traditional dancing done for recreation...dancing like we play at sessions, for its own sake. I'm starting to get the impression all I'm going to see is staged shows for us tourists :(
That said, I hope the film crosses the Atlantic soon...I've seen the trailer, and my curiosity is piqued.
"I think what you are seeing is the inevitable result of competition."
We don't have any CCE activity or other competitions here to speak of, so I've only experienced is the session scene, so I may be way off, but the impression I get from reading the mustand board is that the CCE fleadhs and the session scene are both going full bore in Ireland and other ITM hot spots. IF that's true, what's different about dance? Why does the competitive community flourish, while the recreational community fade? (or, am I misinformed that it is fading?)
" I’m perplexed as to what Irish dancing championships have become, a hybridised cultural abstraction of folk dancing and the American pageant shows"
You don't sound perplexed to me, you've summed it up beautifully. You just need to read the comments on Youtube to see that dancing is no longer about enjoyment. ' You need to turn out more' and 'keep those arms straight' are typical examples. In other words, 'You're not doing it right'. I'm afraid that Irish dancing is going the way of ballet -- it starts out with all the people enjoying themselves, and ends up in the grasp of a select few, whom the rest pay to watch.
I'm also afraid that it is happening to the music. There are more and more references to 'fantastic triplets' and 'amazing bow control,' rather than 'lovely tune'. I only pray that the music is good enough and the youngsters intelligent enough not to have it stolen from them.
I think it is step dancing that has lost its way although it always had a competitive skill element to it. Set dancing would fall into the more recreational community dancing now like contra dancing and thankfully it still is danced to live music and often in pubs. Although it was spurned for decades in favour of the Gaelic League's scottish influenced ceili dances. And the great thing is that you don't have to dress up for the social dancing.
There seems to be a growing interest in sean nos and noncompetitive dancing classes in the area I live in. Even step dance classes for adults of all ages. And of course, classes in ceilidhe dance. Hopefully it catches on, because the competition and beauty pagent aspects of the dance world are somewhat out of control, and when that is what dominates, the fun goes out of it.
I've seen trailers. The grim, obsessive earnestness of those featured strikes me as specifically American. (They seemed mostly to be Americans.) Amidst it, each kid was being pounded with the message: "Everything you need to be a championship winner is in YOU!" - and at the same time being hammered by dread of failure and disgrace. It's a lethal cocktail for kids to grow up on.
I doubt if it's as bad as that in Ireland or the UK. In England, anyway, and I imagine mutatis mutandis in the other countries, folk dance of any kind is located in one or other social context that is fairly generally known about, is fairly limited in its catchment, and attracts genial stereotyping if nothing worse from a wider population that may actually be quite fond of it, but is vastly indifferent to any claim that it matters very much. In other words, it *cannot* get above itself. Equivalent activities include the things people do to win competitions in agricultural shows, or indeed formidable but localised sports like the Highland ones. As a rule these things are worth doing, and those who take them seriously and do them well are likely enough to be seen in their community as having something estimable and special to contribute. But they might have had to cope with obscurity and a bit of disdain on the way.
This is very well said: "...the evolution of Irish step dance [is] an allegory for Irelands economic and social crisis where the values we had, in the past, assumed were socially embedded, were quickly usurped by increased wealth and materialism."
Isn't that the truth. Capitalism. Not good for indigenous culture. All about the buck rather than the art.
Big business - our girls went for a while for a few classes but within weeks the pressure was on re Feiseanna and the garb, so we quit. But I do know other families where the girls stayed longer well into their late teens and thought it was a great hobby.
As others noteabove, the set dancing is the equivalent of the trad session in Ireland at any rate, as far as I can see.
I have a nephew in Portland, Oregon, USA that is grateful his daughter finally lost interest in Irish step dancing. I think theirs was the usual story where the 5-year old sees Riverdance and says to Mom that she wants to learn to dance....then the dollar kicks in and the teacher explains that everybody in the class competes. Five years and lterally thousands of dollars later my nephew can't listen to any tunes with me because he has spent so many hours listening to The Butterfly played on accordian over and over, with little girls crying in the background. Nightmarish really.....
Rumour has it that, somewhere in the vaults of Vatican City, there is a thick volume labelled "Irish Step Dancing, Vol II; Arm Technique".
I played at a St Patrick's Night function at a social club a couple of years ago, and the costumes, The WIGS OMG, etc., it's all laughable.
And where's the pleasure in it all gone ?
How soon, as has been said, does a folk art become a travesty of itself.
It appears to me that ITM and Irish Social dancing have gone their separate ways, and the social dancing has almost disappeared. I'm aware of lots of people going to Scottish Country Dances (thanks to a great degree to the existence of the Royal Scottish Country Dance Society), and lots of people going barn/ceilidh/folk dances, but I'm not aware of their being much of a tradition of Irish social dancing. Does it exist - and if so, where is it found?
In England in general terms, I think ceilidh dancing has been very much a revival thing. It has certainly been successful, in terms of the numbers held and of people who go to them, not to mention employment for bands. Recessions have come and gone and had some effect on numbers going to ceilidhs, but the phenomenon seems to have put down roots in all parts of the country as far as I can see - maybe as a minority pursuit, but at least pursued by viable numbers. I think 'folk dance' is not a term used much for actual events, having rather twee connotations. 'Barn dance', more likely, I think. I've only ever heard them called 'ceilidhs', myself. But of course, this doesn't mean the same thing as a ceilidh in its original, Gaelic sense; it just means - well - a barn-dance, with maybe some other entertainment laid on during a band break or something. The music and dances can come from England, Scotland, Ireland and indeed other parts of the world, with maybe a definite bias towards one of these areas depending on where you are and who's running the show or doing the gig.
I don't know whether Irish social dancing had a more substantial living tradition running through from 'the old days' into the late twentieth century, or not. You tell me!
I agree about the competition thing. But I think it goes a bit deeper - what I see is the age old workings of fashion. It takes hold of something that has intrinsic value then eats it - only to excrete the same smelling stuff. Competition is the child of vanity, and vanity serves only fashion. Dave Bowie said it most eloquently: "we are the goon squad and we're coming to town - beep beep".
But all is not lost - only the fashionable are swayed, and much as it is hard to find a Christian in a church, there are a handfull of them .. same with the dance and the music. The heart might be obscured, but it still beats on - regardless of the clothes that get draped on it.
The wigs have taken over.
They are told that a beautiful dancer not wearing a wig will lose to a so-so dancer with a wig because the one with the wig made the committment.
I have seen a few of these "elite" dancers and I am surprised by how sloppy they are. Great footwork but no body control or posture control. The stuff that was drummed into the older crowd.
I was at one Feis a few years ago and it was so hot that an announcement was made. No Costumes. No Wigs. The kids went up in shorts and t-shirts and it was some of the best dancing I have seen. And the kids were enjoying themselves.
Re strength of dancing for pleasure, I live in Kildare (not a traditional stronghold of set dancing) and can dance three times a week if I want to. Sean Nos classes available if You want. Most of the participants are older (i'm 31 and average age is 50 plus) but I feel its a niche past time now with teachers and people interested in culture and heritage becoming involved, Healthy enough in Meath too, Ceili's on on regular basis and classes in Dunderry and a few other places in Meath, Not sure about the future as the participants age.
Step dancing is something I see occasionally at weddings or charity events, It has evolved into its own thing and the premiership analogy is quite good.
it isn't an American phenomenon strictly, the aggressively competitive Irish step dancing scene, replete with expensive dance dresses and Ronald McDonald type wigs is alive and kicking in Australia, for another example.
I think it is another example of "materialism", pardon the possibly passe concept now, this time of culture, (as opposed to its opposite), or what trad music and dance might have been as celebration and symbolism, jointly, of community, and our social origins. Even in places like Ireland, it will be subject to materialisation, possibly the countries of origin may be, ironically, the last to fall (or maintain, depending on how you would view it) to the trend.
This is one of the very reasons why I find it highly ironic (and satisfying) that language, particularly Irish, in this context, with the music, and the dance, is a bulwark against the barbarism of the consumerist monster - very hard to commercialise Irish language. Thank goodness.
Survival has a long history.
Erin go bragh.
Streets of Derry:
Can't materialise this:
(it's a shadow in English, I know, but hey)_
After the morning there comes an evening
And after evening, another day
And after false love there come a true love
So listen now to what she say.
I swear my love is the finest young man
As fair as any the sun shines on
how to save him, I do not know it
For now he’s got a sentence to be hung;
As he was walking the streets of Derry
I own he walked up right manfully
Being much more like a commanding officer
Than a man to die upon the gallow tree.
"What ails my love she’s so long in coming
Oh what detain her so long from me?
does she feel it a shame or scandal?
For to see me die upon the gallow tree"
He turned around and he saw her coming
As she rode swifter than the wind
She say “I will not let them harm you”;
And she crowned her lover with a bunch of green.
Jig - the film and the banking crisis
Jig - the film and the banking crisis
Sue Bourne’s film, Jig, a documentary about the 40th World Irish Dancing Championships in Glasgow is released this week and has been quite extensively covered in the media in the UK. It seems likely to become a hit in the same way that my Big Fat Gypsy Wedding has attracted attention on UK TV as a kind of cultural freak show, but performed by quite decent ordinary people. The film does try to demonstrate the talent and dedication of the dancers, but you can’t get away from the visual image.
So, I’m perplexed as to what Irish dancing championships have become, a hybridised cultural abstraction of folk dancing and the American pageant shows. The presentation now seems so far removed from its origins. At one end of the Irish traditional spectrum we have a slower evolving song tradition based that laments about displacement and simple beauty, whilst at the other we have a Shirley Temple, mascara and sock glue arms race. And then we have Irish trad music which is evolving and losing its links to Irish dance and vice versa.
Could we see the evolution of Irish step dance as an allegory for Irelands economic and social crisis where the values we had, in the past, assumed were socially embedded, were quickly usurped by increased wealth and materialism? In a few decades the simple, is transformed by capitalism and consumerism into something highly popular, commercially successful, but unrecognisable above the ankle level. Or is it just an unfortunate phase like the rhinestones in country music?
Friends who have kids who are dancing seem to recognise the madness but go along with the indulgence of the competitive feis because they believe the judges will dismiss those who don’t buy in to the grotesque cartoon image: non competitive outlets for step dancing are few. So, this seems like the banking crisis again, or English premiership football where many participants can see the madness, but no-one can stop it.
Now I don’t want culture to be preserved in aspic and I recognise the enjoyment that many get out of this – just why does something so skilful and delightful in its own right have to be made so cheesy and cringe worthy? Maybe my problem!
Pat
# Posted on May 14th 2011 by portnasaol
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
I think what you are seeing is the inevitable result of competition. It happens whenever you take something artistic and try to make it competitive, from ballroom dancing to surfing.
The obvious answer is to create the dancing equivalent of the session - somewhere that people can go and dance just for the sheer fun of it.
# Posted on May 14th 2011 by skreech
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
I've only been aware of ITM for the past couple of years or so, but in that time I've been to a few general "Celtic" festivals, and I've become painfully aware of this dichotomy as well. Trad musicians seem to span a wide age range, and a great many of us play for the fun of it. The dancers seem to all be young girls in competitive troupes.
At least we have an active contra dance scene here in central Texas, so there are people dancing to Irish music (mixed with everything else that makes the contra repertoire). I'm making my first trip to Ireland in about a month, and I've been wondering if I'd encounter any traditional dancing done for recreation...dancing like we play at sessions, for its own sake. I'm starting to get the impression all I'm going to see is staged shows for us tourists :(
That said, I hope the film crosses the Atlantic soon...I've seen the trailer, and my curiosity is piqued.
# Posted on May 14th 2011 by dereksmootz
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
"I think what you are seeing is the inevitable result of competition."
We don't have any CCE activity or other competitions here to speak of, so I've only experienced is the session scene, so I may be way off, but the impression I get from reading the mustand board is that the CCE fleadhs and the session scene are both going full bore in Ireland and other ITM hot spots. IF that's true, what's different about dance? Why does the competitive community flourish, while the recreational community fade? (or, am I misinformed that it is fading?)
# Posted on May 14th 2011 by dereksmootz
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
" I’m perplexed as to what Irish dancing championships have become, a hybridised cultural abstraction of folk dancing and the American pageant shows"
You don't sound perplexed to me, you've summed it up beautifully. You just need to read the comments on Youtube to see that dancing is no longer about enjoyment. ' You need to turn out more' and 'keep those arms straight' are typical examples. In other words, 'You're not doing it right'. I'm afraid that Irish dancing is going the way of ballet -- it starts out with all the people enjoying themselves, and ends up in the grasp of a select few, whom the rest pay to watch.
I'm also afraid that it is happening to the music. There are more and more references to 'fantastic triplets' and 'amazing bow control,' rather than 'lovely tune'. I only pray that the music is good enough and the youngsters intelligent enough not to have it stolen from them.
# Posted on May 14th 2011 by gam
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
I think it is step dancing that has lost its way although it always had a competitive skill element to it. Set dancing would fall into the more recreational community dancing now like contra dancing and thankfully it still is danced to live music and often in pubs. Although it was spurned for decades in favour of the Gaelic League's scottish influenced ceili dances. And the great thing is that you don't have to dress up for the social dancing.
# Posted on May 14th 2011 by portnasaol
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
There seems to be a growing interest in sean nos and noncompetitive dancing classes in the area I live in. Even step dance classes for adults of all ages. And of course, classes in ceilidhe dance. Hopefully it catches on, because the competition and beauty pagent aspects of the dance world are somewhat out of control, and when that is what dominates, the fun goes out of it.
# Posted on May 14th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
I've seen trailers. The grim, obsessive earnestness of those featured strikes me as specifically American. (They seemed mostly to be Americans.) Amidst it, each kid was being pounded with the message: "Everything you need to be a championship winner is in YOU!" - and at the same time being hammered by dread of failure and disgrace. It's a lethal cocktail for kids to grow up on.
I doubt if it's as bad as that in Ireland or the UK. In England, anyway, and I imagine mutatis mutandis in the other countries, folk dance of any kind is located in one or other social context that is fairly generally known about, is fairly limited in its catchment, and attracts genial stereotyping if nothing worse from a wider population that may actually be quite fond of it, but is vastly indifferent to any claim that it matters very much. In other words, it *cannot* get above itself. Equivalent activities include the things people do to win competitions in agricultural shows, or indeed formidable but localised sports like the Highland ones. As a rule these things are worth doing, and those who take them seriously and do them well are likely enough to be seen in their community as having something estimable and special to contribute. But they might have had to cope with obscurity and a bit of disdain on the way.
# Posted on May 14th 2011 by nicholas
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
This is very well said: "...the evolution of Irish step dance [is] an allegory for Irelands economic and social crisis where the values we had, in the past, assumed were socially embedded, were quickly usurped by increased wealth and materialism."
Isn't that the truth. Capitalism. Not good for indigenous culture. All about the buck rather than the art.
# Posted on May 14th 2011 by David Levine
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
Sure, didn't we just have it here in Dublin, home to the biggest bank fraudsters in Europe!!
http://www.worldirishdancing.com/2011/index.php
Big business - our girls went for a while for a few classes but within weeks the pressure was on re Feiseanna and the garb, so we quit. But I do know other families where the girls stayed longer well into their late teens and thought it was a great hobby.
As others noteabove, the set dancing is the equivalent of the trad session in Ireland at any rate, as far as I can see.
# Posted on May 14th 2011 by the wounded hussar
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
I have a nephew in Portland, Oregon, USA that is grateful his daughter finally lost interest in Irish step dancing. I think theirs was the usual story where the 5-year old sees Riverdance and says to Mom that she wants to learn to dance....then the dollar kicks in and the teacher explains that everybody in the class competes. Five years and lterally thousands of dollars later my nephew can't listen to any tunes with me because he has spent so many hours listening to The Butterfly played on accordian over and over, with little girls crying in the background. Nightmarish really.....
# Posted on May 14th 2011 by y-nought
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
Rumour has it that, somewhere in the vaults of Vatican City, there is a thick volume labelled "Irish Step Dancing, Vol II; Arm Technique".
I played at a St Patrick's Night function at a social club a couple of years ago, and the costumes, The WIGS OMG, etc., it's all laughable.
And where's the pleasure in it all gone ?
How soon, as has been said, does a folk art become a travesty of itself.
# Posted on May 15th 2011 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
It appears to me that ITM and Irish Social dancing have gone their separate ways, and the social dancing has almost disappeared. I'm aware of lots of people going to Scottish Country Dances (thanks to a great degree to the existence of the Royal Scottish Country Dance Society), and lots of people going barn/ceilidh/folk dances, but I'm not aware of their being much of a tradition of Irish social dancing. Does it exist - and if so, where is it found?
# Posted on May 15th 2011 by rbs
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
Go to a wedding or social gathering in Clare. People dance a set. Or s a few.
# Posted on May 15th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
In England in general terms, I think ceilidh dancing has been very much a revival thing. It has certainly been successful, in terms of the numbers held and of people who go to them, not to mention employment for bands. Recessions have come and gone and had some effect on numbers going to ceilidhs, but the phenomenon seems to have put down roots in all parts of the country as far as I can see - maybe as a minority pursuit, but at least pursued by viable numbers. I think 'folk dance' is not a term used much for actual events, having rather twee connotations. 'Barn dance', more likely, I think. I've only ever heard them called 'ceilidhs', myself. But of course, this doesn't mean the same thing as a ceilidh in its original, Gaelic sense; it just means - well - a barn-dance, with maybe some other entertainment laid on during a band break or something. The music and dances can come from England, Scotland, Ireland and indeed other parts of the world, with maybe a definite bias towards one of these areas depending on where you are and who's running the show or doing the gig.
I don't know whether Irish social dancing had a more substantial living tradition running through from 'the old days' into the late twentieth century, or not. You tell me!
# Posted on May 15th 2011 by nicholas
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
I agree about the competition thing. But I think it goes a bit deeper - what I see is the age old workings of fashion. It takes hold of something that has intrinsic value then eats it - only to excrete the same smelling stuff. Competition is the child of vanity, and vanity serves only fashion. Dave Bowie said it most eloquently: "we are the goon squad and we're coming to town - beep beep".
But all is not lost - only the fashionable are swayed, and much as it is hard to find a Christian in a church, there are a handfull of them .. same with the dance and the music. The heart might be obscured, but it still beats on - regardless of the clothes that get draped on it.
# Posted on May 16th 2011 by Mozle
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
The wigs have taken over.
They are told that a beautiful dancer not wearing a wig will lose to a so-so dancer with a wig because the one with the wig made the committment.
I have seen a few of these "elite" dancers and I am surprised by how sloppy they are. Great footwork but no body control or posture control. The stuff that was drummed into the older crowd.
I was at one Feis a few years ago and it was so hot that an announcement was made. No Costumes. No Wigs. The kids went up in shorts and t-shirts and it was some of the best dancing I have seen. And the kids were enjoying themselves.
# Posted on May 16th 2011 by MorganYYZ
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
Re strength of dancing for pleasure, I live in Kildare (not a traditional stronghold of set dancing) and can dance three times a week if I want to. Sean Nos classes available if You want. Most of the participants are older (i'm 31 and average age is 50 plus) but I feel its a niche past time now with teachers and people interested in culture and heritage becoming involved, Healthy enough in Meath too, Ceili's on on regular basis and classes in Dunderry and a few other places in Meath, Not sure about the future as the participants age.
Step dancing is something I see occasionally at weddings or charity events, It has evolved into its own thing and the premiership analogy is quite good.
# Posted on May 17th 2011 by Uill Wind
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
it isn't an American phenomenon strictly, the aggressively competitive Irish step dancing scene, replete with expensive dance dresses and Ronald McDonald type wigs is alive and kicking in Australia, for another example.
I think it is another example of "materialism", pardon the possibly passe concept now, this time of culture, (as opposed to its opposite), or what trad music and dance might have been as celebration and symbolism, jointly, of community, and our social origins. Even in places like Ireland, it will be subject to materialisation, possibly the countries of origin may be, ironically, the last to fall (or maintain, depending on how you would view it) to the trend.
This is one of the very reasons why I find it highly ironic (and satisfying) that language, particularly Irish, in this context, with the music, and the dance, is a bulwark against the barbarism of the consumerist monster - very hard to commercialise Irish language. Thank goodness.
Survival has a long history.
Erin go bragh.
# Posted on May 17th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Wig - the film and the banking crisis
Any activity thet encourages wig use and therefore an interest in WIG GLUE is good.
# Posted on May 17th 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
Streets of Derry:
Can't materialise this:
(it's a shadow in English, I know, but hey)_
After the morning there comes an evening
And after evening, another day
And after false love there come a true love
So listen now to what she say.
I swear my love is the finest young man
As fair as any the sun shines on
how to save him, I do not know it
For now he’s got a sentence to be hung;
As he was walking the streets of Derry
I own he walked up right manfully
Being much more like a commanding officer
Than a man to die upon the gallow tree.
"What ails my love she’s so long in coming
Oh what detain her so long from me?
does she feel it a shame or scandal?
For to see me die upon the gallow tree"
He turned around and he saw her coming
As she rode swifter than the wind
She say “I will not let them harm you”;
And she crowned her lover with a bunch of green.
# Posted on May 17th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
Two words: Cara Dillon
# Posted on May 17th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
...and the best link please.
# Posted on May 17th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giFodIYDpHs
Better viewing than Paul Brady, eh? ;)
# Posted on May 17th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
sure it is! go raibh maith agat, banríon na nasc amhrán, tss
# Posted on May 17th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Jig - the film and the banking crisis
conas a cool é sin, that song!
# Posted on May 17th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh