I read in my newspaper this week that the first use of the Bodhran was to frighten off the enemy.
The instrument, which may have come from the US, Spain or Central Asia, arrived here with some of the first immigrants around 10,000 years ago. The first 'recorded' use of the bodhran in war was in the rebellion against the English which was spearheaded by Hugh O’Neill Earl of Tyrone. That lasted from 1594 to 1603 and the Irish were defeated. The defeat marked the conquest of Ireland by Queen Elizabeth 1. The Bodhran didn't seem to work on that occasion or maybe the English were getting used to hearing it.
It was also used in agriculture as a tray for separating chaff, and in baking as a food server. It was often used for carrying peat. A versatile instrument the Bodhran........!.
Ever seen one of those brass Chieftain low whistles? A piper I used to play with had one. That thing could be a serious weapon. Best kept around for bar fights and out of time bodhran players.
I guy I used to play with told this regular joke to the audience - The bodhran started as an instrument of war. The Irish chieftains and their army would stand on the field of battle and pound their bodhrans to frighten the enemy!
The only problem was the other army always had swords...
It makes the other people (them) cover their ears and stand to the side of the room. It stops them spot the holy ones when their hearts are opened by the music - just incase they should want to take them for their own. Brutes needn't worry - they'll be left, so.
I have it on good authority out of an old cousin called 'Drums' Herethy. So bang away or we'll loose some dainty fiddlers as they skip home in their Hush-puppies.
The five-row button accordion would be as good as a banjo if the straps were longer and you could give it a few really good whirls round your head before delivering the coup de grace.
But they aren't.
The bodhran can't have been a very good instrument of war. It would have told the enemy you were coming, and annoyed them without frightening them.
Not nearly as effective as the Highland Bagpipes, played to abominable bowel-loosening effect by Private Frazer types springing out of the grass at your feet with dirks in their teeth.
"Not nearly as effective as the Highland Bagpipes, played to abominable bowel-loosening effect by Private Frazer types springing out of the grass at your feet with dirks in their teeth."
Thats where the uilleann pipes have it. You can play those with a dirk between your teeth. No spare limbs for anything else mind.
Having said that, you can only play them sat down, so at least you present a smaller target.
I think the guitar is the ultimate session weapon. Think of the famous El Kabong, and how he would smite his cartoon enemies with a deftly wielded guitar. Kabong!
"a bodhran in the right hands makes fiddlers, dancers and marches hear what they never thought the music had"
I've had this happen, in fact. Typically, bodhran players make me hear a lifeless inevitability, a straight-jacket rhythm, and a plodding dreariness that I really never thought the music had. I still don't think it has them - I think it's the bodhran players.
If you think about the police tactics used to disperse rioters, they will intimidate the rioters by battering their shields, I dare say in ancient battles this very same method was used to instill fear on the enemy along with the bagpipes.
I hate that drum's discordant sound,
Parading round, and round, and round:
To thoughtless youth it pleasure yields,
And lures from cities and from fields,
To sell their liberty for charms
Of tawdry lace and glitt'ring arms;
And when Ambition's voice commands,
To fight and fall in foreign lands.
I hate that drum's discordant sound,
Parading round, and round, and round:
To me it talks of ravaged plains,
And burning towns and ruin'd swains,
And mangled limbs, and dying groans,
And widow's tears, and orphans moans,
And all that Misery's hand bestows,
To fill a catalogue of woes.
The Bodhran actually came form the Isle of Man (In RAMSey) by Neanderthalls trying to invent the boomerang so that they could kill seagulls for food. They flew extremely well, like giant frisbees, but had the unfortunate habit of not coming back. When they ran out of goats, the would-be inventors gave up, and died of starvation. Centuries later, all the bohrans were found on a beach in Ireland.
The cycle of life of a bodhran is similar to that of the axolotal, it can spend its entire existence as a bodhran, but beware, given the right environmental conditions, as the axolotal turns into a salamander, the bodhran hatches into a banjo
As for other musical instruments used as weapons; I'm sure some kind soul with more technical savvy can point us to the video I've seen on youtube, where some idiot runs onto the stage at a Rolling Stones gig in the '80s', and Keith Richards unslings his Telecaster and clocks the guy one before he can get to Mick Jagger ! Then security catch up with the guy and hustle him off stage. Richards claims the guitar was still in tune when he put it on again a moment later. Try that with a banjo.
The Japanese shakuhachi was used for a time by official spies for the shogunate. They would stand around on street corners with baskets on their heads to conceal their identity, watching what was going on in the neighbourhood while they were playing (in theory this was a Zen practice, but came in handy for the secret police).
Understandably the locals would occasionally object to being snooped on. In that eventuality it helped that a shakuhachi is basically a drilled-out baseball bat.
I'm fascinated by the idea that the drum may have "come from the US....with the first immigrants around 10,000 years ago". What's the rationale behind that one? Sounds like it came out of one of Von Daniken's books...
From time to time, banjo players have been known to sharpen the lower edge of the resonator, producing a fearsome two handed melee weapon, the banjaxe.
"I'm fascinated by the idea that the drum may have "come from the US....with the first immigrants around 10,000 years ago". What's the rationale behind that one?"
It means that everyone else in the US turned on the tribe that played the insufferable instruments and compelled them to take to the ocean in such dugouts as they could find.
"something to do with that third octave" plus the fact that, if the worst came to the worst, the fife could double as an internal back splint, thus making the enemy incapable of running away.
www.justbecauseitsaysitonawebsitedoesn'tmakeitafact.com
or
www.anybozocanmakeawebsite.com
The harpist accompanied the Chiefs into battle I've no doubt. They went everywear with them apparently. Harps were not used "in" the battle as a bugle or a (real) war drum as a signaling device. And ,again, I doubt bodhrans were used "in" the battle. The term "war" drum would need to be defined I guess.
Why not Weejie? It would do the world (and me) some good. I don't hate bodhrans. I actually like them played 'old school' when they kinda sounded like war drums(doesn't mean I endorse that theory). So I've seen a small (2-3 tops) references to these drums prior to the 50's. I've herd them on old 78's recorded in America in the 20's but they had 'jingles on them(can you say tambourine). So I would be interested in a few original sources that point to the history of this drum. I'll thank you in advance just in case you do decide to take the time....thanks
And then there's this article, which discusses early appearances of the word bodhran in reference to a drum, and a couple of 19c depictions of bodhran-like objects. Among other things. It even mentions banjos. http://comhaltas.ie/music/treoir/detail/bodhran_its_origin_meaning_and_history/
I don't know if the other two parts of the paper ever appeared, and I'm too tired to search for it now. Very scholarly this article is.
"I don't know if the other two parts of the paper ever appeared"
I've never found them, and the author isn't known to google for anything but this one first part of an article.
Very scholarly indeed - publishing part one, and not bothering to finish it. This article has been cited here a number of times, probably because it's the only source that claims the bodhran is actually old. (has anyone got another?) The best part of the paper, which I always have to pull out, is this:
"That the word bodhrán derives ultimately from the Gaelic word bodhar seems clear ... The word bodhar as an adjective, generally meaning deaf in both Modern Irish and modern Scots Gaelic (Highland Society of Scotland, 1828), has a much wider meaning than simply deaf in Irish Gaelic. It also carries the meanings bothered, confused, annoyed, troubled, numb, deadness of sound, and unclearness or stagnancy of water; and it carries these meanings into the associated/derived nouns and verbs"
"The best part of the paper, which I always have to pull out, is this:"
If one were to trace the origins of the word 'bouzouki', one might come across the suggestion that it comes from the Turkish word 'bozuk', translated by one source as:
"spoilt, ruined; (çalýþmaz) out of order, out of action, on the blink, on the bum, dead, inactive; faulty; disordered, disarranged; (yazý, konuþma) broken; (hava) bad, foul, dirty;" " (gýda) rotten, tainted; (yol vb) bumpy; corrupt, depraved; not virgin"
No of course not and no one's making those claims. It seems that the bodhran and the harp are the only two intruments that ever claim 'ancient' roots. In the case of the harp, well... yes.....in the case of the.......
Well, Moynihan got his from John Pearse, according to Pearse at least, and it was a new commission (not a repair job, as I'd previously believed) with a flat back because the luthier, John Bailey, was unable to build a coopered back*.
This instrument was built in London, and the first one was built to play Greek music, but it was apparently only ever really used to play Irish music.
So you can decide for yourself if it's an authentically Irish instrument. What you're deciding there is what you mean be "authentically Irish" - if you care, have fun debating that!
*The USENET post in which Pearse describes the circumstances is cited in full at the wikipedia page for John Bailey.
"This instrument was built in London, and the first one was built to play Greek music, but it was apparently only ever really used to play Irish music. "
Not quite true. It was apparently used by Andy Irvine for the song "Johnston", which was a Sweeney's Men version of an English folk song called 'Two Butchers'.
Irvine bought one in Greece which he gave to Lunny.
This was not far from the time that Dave Richardson was using a cittern in a similar vein to Lunny, Irvine et al's bouzouki for the Irish/Scottish/Shetland/English mix that was The Boys of The Lough.
The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
I read in my newspaper this week that the first use of the Bodhran was to frighten off the enemy.
The instrument, which may have come from the US, Spain or Central Asia, arrived here with some of the first immigrants around 10,000 years ago. The first 'recorded' use of the bodhran in war was in the rebellion against the English which was spearheaded by Hugh O’Neill Earl of Tyrone. That lasted from 1594 to 1603 and the Irish were defeated. The defeat marked the conquest of Ireland by Queen Elizabeth 1. The Bodhran didn't seem to work on that occasion or maybe the English were getting used to hearing it.
It was also used in agriculture as a tray for separating chaff, and in baking as a food server. It was often used for carrying peat. A versatile instrument the Bodhran........!.
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by Free Reed
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
Everyone has gets defeated by the bodhran
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by ...
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
And you want to start another mustard board war
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by deeor
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
..... even feckin syntax and grammar
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by ...
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
Doesn't the bodhran still scare people off?
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by pipersgrip
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
At first I thought the thread was going to talk about how the bodhran could be used as a weapon.
As far as session instruments used as weapons, I doubt you'll do much better than a banjo for heavy damage.
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by Jimmy B
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
Ever seen one of those brass Chieftain low whistles? A piper I used to play with had one. That thing could be a serious weapon. Best kept around for bar fights and out of time bodhran players.
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
Dunno, sessions are tight for space ... by the time you've wielded your banjo I'd have already had you with my low Overton C
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by ...
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
@ SS,
A smaller and lighter weapon that still packs a punch, to be sure. A swinging banjo, however, now that's a gladiator's session weapon.
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by Jimmy B
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
x-post
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by ...
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
I guy I used to play with told this regular joke to the audience - The bodhran started as an instrument of war. The Irish chieftains and their army would stand on the field of battle and pound their bodhrans to frighten the enemy!
The only problem was the other army always had swords...
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
It makes the other people (them) cover their ears and stand to the side of the room. It stops them spot the holy ones when their hearts are opened by the music - just incase they should want to take them for their own. Brutes needn't worry - they'll be left, so.
I have it on good authority out of an old cousin called 'Drums' Herethy. So bang away or we'll loose some dainty fiddlers as they skip home in their Hush-puppies.
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by An Diulach Mor
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
The five-row button accordion would be as good as a banjo if the straps were longer and you could give it a few really good whirls round your head before delivering the coup de grace.
But they aren't.
The bodhran can't have been a very good instrument of war. It would have told the enemy you were coming, and annoyed them without frightening them.
Not nearly as effective as the Highland Bagpipes, played to abominable bowel-loosening effect by Private Frazer types springing out of the grass at your feet with dirks in their teeth.
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by nicholas
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
"Not nearly as effective as the Highland Bagpipes, played to abominable bowel-loosening effect by Private Frazer types springing out of the grass at your feet with dirks in their teeth."
Thats where the uilleann pipes have it. You can play those with a dirk between your teeth. No spare limbs for anything else mind.
Having said that, you can only play them sat down, so at least you present a smaller target.
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by ormepipes
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
a bodhran in the right hands makes fiddlers, dancers and marches hear what they never thought the music had.
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
Bodhrans were the predecessors of the Kamikaze Highlanders.
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by MorganYYZ
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
Is é an rí bodhrán
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
I'd like to nominate this for Best Thread Title Of The Month. It sure got my attention.
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
Is é an rí bodhrán; i lámha éisteacht
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
más féidir leat imirt bodhrán, a mheaitseáil leis seo, tá tú prionsa na bodhrán
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj4RHYJdcE4&NR=1
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
The Bodhran - An instrument of war?
It's no wonder the English won......
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by Gerry_McCartney
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
"a bodhran in the right hands makes fiddlers, dancers and marches hear what they never thought the music had."
Christ, what ugly baseless arrogance
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by ...
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
I think the guitar is the ultimate session weapon. Think of the famous El Kabong, and how he would smite his cartoon enemies with a deftly wielded guitar. Kabong!
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
"a bodhran in the right hands makes fiddlers, dancers and marches hear what they never thought the music had."
.Uoy htiw eerga yllatot I, Leahcim
!rehsab-taog ebannaw ,dab yrev a morf tnemmoc a ,ylsuoivbo etiuQ
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by Gerry_McCartney
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
"a bodhran in the right hands makes fiddlers, dancers and marches hear what they never thought the music had."
Yep, that's what most bodhran players sound like. Someone with right hands. Two of 'em.
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by Steve Shaw
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
" That lasted from 1594 to 1603 "
Yep, I've heard those long solos as well.
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by Weejie
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
"a bodhran in the right hands makes fiddlers, dancers and marches hear what they never thought the music had"
I've had this happen, in fact. Typically, bodhran players make me hear a lifeless inevitability, a straight-jacket rhythm, and a plodding dreariness that I really never thought the music had. I still don't think it has them - I think it's the bodhran players.
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
"Yep, I've heard those long solos as well."
Why do they call them "so-lows" when they're actually "so-louds"?
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
" That lasted from 1594 to 1603 "
Doesn't time fly when you're baytin' the bejaysus out of a poor defenceless goat!
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by Gerry_McCartney
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
LOL,
"Yep, I've heard those long solos as well."
One of the best come-backs I've read here in a long time!
Nice one, weejie!
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
If you think about the police tactics used to disperse rioters, they will intimidate the rioters by battering their shields, I dare say in ancient battles this very same method was used to instill fear on the enemy along with the bagpipes.
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by Scots_Niall
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
Instrument of war? Long as it was a sheild :P
"Agus theith na saighdiuiri le bodhranacht an lae"
translation: the soldiers fled at the breaking of the day
The language doesn't lie
F.C.
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by Fear Cheoil
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
It's not loud enough to be used as anything in war. The idea is silly.
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by shanty
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
Here' one for you llig:
The Drum
by John Scot
I hate that drum's discordant sound,
Parading round, and round, and round:
To thoughtless youth it pleasure yields,
And lures from cities and from fields,
To sell their liberty for charms
Of tawdry lace and glitt'ring arms;
And when Ambition's voice commands,
To fight and fall in foreign lands.
I hate that drum's discordant sound,
Parading round, and round, and round:
To me it talks of ravaged plains,
And burning towns and ruin'd swains,
And mangled limbs, and dying groans,
And widow's tears, and orphans moans,
And all that Misery's hand bestows,
To fill a catalogue of woes.
Love to all,
GC
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by Gran Cassa
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
The Bodhran actually came form the Isle of Man (In RAMSey) by Neanderthalls trying to invent the boomerang so that they could kill seagulls for food. They flew extremely well, like giant frisbees, but had the unfortunate habit of not coming back. When they ran out of goats, the would-be inventors gave up, and died of starvation. Centuries later, all the bohrans were found on a beach in Ireland.
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by gam
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
The bodhrans would have made better eating than the seagulls.
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by nicholas
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
I am beginning to believe the bodhran
was not invented.
Rather, it was spawned.
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by Piece
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
The cycle of life of a bodhran is similar to that of the axolotal, it can spend its entire existence as a bodhran, but beware, given the right environmental conditions, as the axolotal turns into a salamander, the bodhran hatches into a banjo
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by ...
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
As for other musical instruments used as weapons; I'm sure some kind soul with more technical savvy can point us to the video I've seen on youtube, where some idiot runs onto the stage at a Rolling Stones gig in the '80s', and Keith Richards unslings his Telecaster and clocks the guy one before he can get to Mick Jagger ! Then security catch up with the guy and hustle him off stage. Richards claims the guitar was still in tune when he put it on again a moment later. Try that with a banjo.
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by Guernsey Pete
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
The Japanese shakuhachi was used for a time by official spies for the shogunate. They would stand around on street corners with baskets on their heads to conceal their identity, watching what was going on in the neighbourhood while they were playing (in theory this was a Zen practice, but came in handy for the secret police).
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/134/331909209_6c144d6710.jpg
Understandably the locals would occasionally object to being snooped on. In that eventuality it helped that a shakuhachi is basically a drilled-out baseball bat.
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by Jack Campin
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
I thought a banjo was just a bodhran with an erection.
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by Steve Shaw
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
I'm fascinated by the idea that the drum may have "come from the US....with the first immigrants around 10,000 years ago". What's the rationale behind that one? Sounds like it came out of one of Von Daniken's books...
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by E
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
"Try that with a banjo"
Betcha the banjo's just as in tune after as it was before.
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
From time to time, banjo players have been known to sharpen the lower edge of the resonator, producing a fearsome two handed melee weapon, the banjaxe.
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by Seosamh Ui Sinan
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
I think that's what I got hit with last weekend.
Anyway, they said I was banjaxed, I guess that's what they meant.
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
Gosh, I believed that all those history books were wrong and that the bodhran was INVENTED in 1960 by Sean O'Riada.
Well, that's what all the purists on here said so I believed them.
You mean, they were ......wrong?
My faith in mankind has been shattered.
PS: Plantation of Ulster after Elizabeth, they had already conquered the rest......
# Posted on May 6th 2011 by bodhran bliss
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
"I'm fascinated by the idea that the drum may have "come from the US....with the first immigrants around 10,000 years ago". What's the rationale behind that one?"
It means that everyone else in the US turned on the tribe that played the insufferable instruments and compelled them to take to the ocean in such dugouts as they could find.
# Posted on May 7th 2011 by nicholas
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
What do bodhrans eat?
I dare say they put away a lot of crumbs and beer.
Shane MacGowan could write a song about being a bodhran.
# Posted on May 7th 2011 by nicholas
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
"Shane MacGowan could write a song about being a bodhran. "
It's done. Not McGowan, but some lovely singing nonetheless:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RUE01N1VK0
# Posted on May 7th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
Fifes were often used in war, I think it has something to do with that third octave...
# Posted on May 7th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
"something to do with that third octave" plus the fact that, if the worst came to the worst, the fife could double as an internal back splint, thus making the enemy incapable of running away.
# Posted on May 7th 2011 by gam
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
duelling bodhrans.
bodhrans and pipes didn't lead armies into war...it was a bunch of fiddlers of course.
# Posted on May 7th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
it is possible to walk and play fiddle at the same time you know.
If you're good.
# Posted on May 7th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
"Under the Clan system, the harpists had several functions amongst which was accompanying the Chief into battle"
http://www.footstompin.com/public/article/scottish-music-guide/information-on-the-harp
http://battleharp.com/
And they were quieter than a bodhrán.
# Posted on May 7th 2011 by Weejie
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
harpists could also fire several arrows at once.
# Posted on May 7th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
www.justbecauseitsaysitonawebsitedoesn'tmakeitafact.com
or
www.anybozocanmakeawebsite.com
The harpist accompanied the Chiefs into battle I've no doubt. They went everywear with them apparently. Harps were not used "in" the battle as a bugle or a (real) war drum as a signaling device. And ,again, I doubt bodhrans were used "in" the battle. The term "war" drum would need to be defined I guess.
# Posted on May 7th 2011 by shanty
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
"www.justbecauseitsaysitonawebsitedoesn'tmakeitafact.com"
www.thereisampleevidencedocumentedinbooksbutiambuggeredifiamgoingtorootthoseoutforathreadlikethis.
# Posted on May 7th 2011 by Weejie
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
Why not Weejie? It would do the world (and me) some good. I don't hate bodhrans. I actually like them played 'old school' when they kinda sounded like war drums(doesn't mean I endorse that theory). So I've seen a small (2-3 tops) references to these drums prior to the 50's. I've herd them on old 78's recorded in America in the 20's but they had 'jingles on them(can you say tambourine). So I would be interested in a few original sources that point to the history of this drum. I'll thank you in advance just in case you do decide to take the time....thanks
# Posted on May 7th 2011 by shanty
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
I was referring to the harp in battle.
There is information in The Traditional and National Music of Scotland' by Francis Collinson (London: Routledge & Kegan Paul, 1966).
# Posted on May 7th 2011 by Weejie
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
And then there's this article, which discusses early appearances of the word bodhran in reference to a drum, and a couple of 19c depictions of bodhran-like objects. Among other things. It even mentions banjos.
http://comhaltas.ie/music/treoir/detail/bodhran_its_origin_meaning_and_history/
I don't know if the other two parts of the paper ever appeared, and I'm too tired to search for it now. Very scholarly this article is.
# Posted on May 8th 2011 by Tracie
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
"I don't know if the other two parts of the paper ever appeared"
I've never found them, and the author isn't known to google for anything but this one first part of an article.
Very scholarly indeed - publishing part one, and not bothering to finish it. This article has been cited here a number of times, probably because it's the only source that claims the bodhran is actually old. (has anyone got another?) The best part of the paper, which I always have to pull out, is this:
"That the word bodhrán derives ultimately from the Gaelic word bodhar seems clear ... The word bodhar as an adjective, generally meaning deaf in both Modern Irish and modern Scots Gaelic (Highland Society of Scotland, 1828), has a much wider meaning than simply deaf in Irish Gaelic. It also carries the meanings bothered, confused, annoyed, troubled, numb, deadness of sound, and unclearness or stagnancy of water; and it carries these meanings into the associated/derived nouns and verbs"
# Posted on May 8th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
"The best part of the paper, which I always have to pull out, is this:"
If one were to trace the origins of the word 'bouzouki', one might come across the suggestion that it comes from the Turkish word 'bozuk', translated by one source as:
"spoilt, ruined; (çalýþmaz) out of order, out of action, on the blink, on the bum, dead, inactive; faulty; disordered, disarranged; (yazý, konuþma) broken; (hava) bad, foul, dirty;" " (gýda) rotten, tainted; (yol vb) bumpy; corrupt, depraved; not virgin"
# Posted on May 8th 2011 by Weejie
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
Is the violin the only "real" Irish instrument?
# Posted on May 8th 2011 by bodhran bliss
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
No of course not and no one's making those claims. It seems that the bodhran and the harp are the only two intruments that ever claim 'ancient' roots. In the case of the harp, well... yes.....in the case of the.......
# Posted on May 8th 2011 by shanty
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
If any instrument can claim to be a 'real' Irish instrument, it's the Irish Bouzouki.
It certainly isn't a bouzouki.
Being invented 40+ years ago makes it ancient, too.
# Posted on May 8th 2011 by nicholas
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
"If any instrument can claim to be a 'real' Irish instrument, it's the Irish Bouzouki. "
Would that be the one that Moynihan brought to Ireland or Alec Finn's?
"Being invented 40+ years ago makes it ancient, too."
That also makes the bodhrán ancient, as it certainly predates the bouzouki in Irish music.
# Posted on May 8th 2011 by Weejie
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
Well, Moynihan got his from John Pearse, according to Pearse at least, and it was a new commission (not a repair job, as I'd previously believed) with a flat back because the luthier, John Bailey, was unable to build a coopered back*.
This instrument was built in London, and the first one was built to play Greek music, but it was apparently only ever really used to play Irish music.
So you can decide for yourself if it's an authentically Irish instrument. What you're deciding there is what you mean be "authentically Irish" - if you care, have fun debating that!
*The USENET post in which Pearse describes the circumstances is cited in full at the wikipedia page for John Bailey.
# Posted on May 8th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
"This instrument was built in London, and the first one was built to play Greek music, but it was apparently only ever really used to play Irish music. "
Not quite true. It was apparently used by Andy Irvine for the song "Johnston", which was a Sweeney's Men version of an English folk song called 'Two Butchers'.
Irvine bought one in Greece which he gave to Lunny.
This was not far from the time that Dave Richardson was using a cittern in a similar vein to Lunny, Irvine et al's bouzouki for the Irish/Scottish/Shetland/English mix that was The Boys of The Lough.
# Posted on May 8th 2011 by Weejie
Re: The Bodhran - An instrument of war.
Correction noted.
Those of you arguing the authenticity of the bouzouki, please bear this in mind. It may be a critical point.
# Posted on May 8th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky