My brother & sisters each seemed to be natural visual artists. Each of them also good singers. I was good with my hands, but crap with a drawing pencil. Until, at age 26, I read the book, "Drawing on the Right Side of Your Brain." I began drawing that very same day. It gave me a way to see which, in hind sight, never dawned on me. For the next 15 or so years I drew constantly, & took up painting. Eventually I left it behind for music.
Ironically I have played music since I was ten years. However, after years of trying to explain & understand music (with my mates, myself, & on this board) I think perhaps the left brain does complain too much. The breakthrough was when I bought the flute I am currently playing. It's not a great flute, just a Hammy Hamilton practice flute, but it helps give me the sound which is in my head. As much of a cliche as the Mustard Elite has made of this ~ I listen more closely. & while my left brain continues to chatter ... I *think* the musical conversation is between the flute, the tune, my mates & my right brain.
Now I know many of you are thinking Ben Steen has finally lost his last marble. Fair play, it was only a matter of time. ;)
Do you constantly heed the left brain while playing music, give way for the right brain, or is all this talk of brain halves of no consequence?
I sometimes heed the left brain, often give way to the right brain (with much better results), and definitely find the "talk of halves" to have merit. You might enjoy a book called The Inner Game of Music by Barry Green with Timothy Gallwey (Doubleday, 1986).
A telltale sign of getting into the flow for me is when the words in my brain give way to visual pictures and images which are not associated to anything I would actively choose as related to the music, but just whatever pictures and "movies" my brain spontaneously presents my minds eye with as I'm playing. These images will pop up into my minds eye even when my eyes are open, and it is sometimes very interesting to see what they are.
although i appreciate the sentiment that thinking about music the wrong way is unhelpful, i just don't really believe in any of this left brain/right brain dominant skill behaviors. the research doesn't support it. there are specialized areas in the brain, but there are often parallel systems in the other half of the brain.
this misunderstanding comes from findings in brain damage which show language deficits are prevalent when damage occurs in the left hemisphere. however, as mark j. beeman and christine chiarello pointed out in their 1998 research article, "complementary right-and left-hemisphere language comprehension," the evidence shows that the left hemisphere processes DIFFERENT linguistic information than the right hemisphere.
damage in the right hemisphere language centers cause difficulty or inability to "get the big picture," what we might call long-order semantic connections. that means that left hemisphere brian damage will have devastating results in language comprehension, but right hemispheric damage will result in difficulty processing discourse. beeman and chiarello point out a particular case when researchers missed out on language deficits in a stroke victim named D.B., because they simply tested low-level language comprehension. the patient's own words:
"i understand words, but i'm missing the subtleties, the complex mosaic of meaning that is language." (beeman, 1993).
people say that you are thinking "left-sided" or "right-sided" based on misunderstandings of the research. analytic and linguistic thought is supposed to be left-brain, but in reality it is composed of left- and right-brain processing.
likewise, creativity it surely present in the left-hemisphere as well. the left-brain is not complaining too much.... perhaps it is not being involved enough?
How does the right brain function in music? Just curious - looked at the list from Theirlandais's link but couldn't figure out how that applied to music exactly.
I get that left brain is the part that says "is this roll right? is this note in tune? I wish that guy would quit stomping his foot out of time" etc. But what does the right brain have sway over with regards to music?
I haven't read the book you mentioned but maybe I'll go get it from the library
tia
when you talk about "left-brain complaining too much," that is actually more likely a pre-frontal cortex problem. the pre-frontal cortex is associated with inhibition and analytic thought... if you are over thinking, you are using your pre-frontal cortex for the wrong type of processing, and using it in BOTH hemispheres.
i agree that you shouldn't over think in music when it hurts performance, but with increased automaticity (i.e. experience) comes extra processing ability to think later.
I was at art college for five years from the age of 16, and have painted and drawn for fifty years. I have played music longer than that, and the two have always gone more or less in parallel. Sometimes I can be painting, and suddenly it 'feels' like playing, and as Eliza Jane McNamara says above, sometimes images present themselves in my mind's eye while I am playing.
There are those -- some of my friends included -- who analyse everything, and can't play a tune without knowing the key, chord progression, mode, meter and a multitude of other stuff I can barely understand. And there are those like me, who 'just play the fecker'.
I think we (meaning scientists) are gradually beginning to understand a little bit of what might be going on in the brain, but for the moment I'll go with the left / right model. All interesting stuff!
daiv, it sounds like you've kept up with the brain science. I think I have read that Betty Edwards did not originally get it right as to how the hemispheres function. Fair play. However, it was her approach which completely changed how I approached drawing. It certainly motivated me to want to draw.
Music is different, so I didn't intend to imply that "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" applies with music. Just there is some type of brain shift which helps the music & another which hinders music.
The Prefrontal cortex just above the right temple is associated with insight and intuition. It's the part of your brain that solves problems without you having to draw a diagram of all the variables and study it before making a decision. I would suspect it is very important in Irish music particularly because we have to understand the tune as a "gestalt" or whole rather than a sum of it's notes.
Behrens, R. R. (1998). Art, design and gestalt theory. American Psychologist,
31, 299-303.
Boring, E. G. (1930). The “gestalt” psychology and the “gestalt” movement.
American Journal of Psychology, 42, 308-315
Kohler, W. (1959). Gestalt psychology today, American Psychologist, 14, 727-734
Myers, D.G. (2008). Exploring psychology,7th edition . 289-295
Ogden, R.M. (1932). Insight. American Journal of Psychology, 44, 350-356
Sokal, M. M. (1984). The gestalt psychologists in behaviourist America.
American Historical Review, 89, 1240-1263
My dad used to say, "He acts like he only has half a brain," when encountering an irritating person. I think that saying predates all this left and right brain stuff, though...
I don't have the information right in front of me, but it's about all the different areas of the brain that are used to hear, play, react to what one hears, feels, making decisions.... not always consciously as in having the left brain over analyzing, or cortex, or whatever. It all works together.
That's one of the reasons why folks with dementia or alzheimers may not know much about their surroundings, or family, but they know the tunes.
Don't ask for the studies or the specific articles. I've read a lot of it over the years and am just generalizing from my studies. As well as my observations in playing music for the elderly in nursing homes.
I often have to hose down irrelevant thoughts while I'm playing
or else it can go wonky. Like "what are those people getting
upset about over there?" Or "I wonder if she heard that wrong
note I just played ... " etc
Wyogal, thanks for not knowing the specific articles. I seriously think Betty Edwards did not fully understand brain functions when she wrote her book. Does anyone, really? What was more significant to me at the time was the fact that something I struggled against (art ~ drawing) became available to me through her book. After which I loved to draw. She helped me discover art & with that my ability to express myself. Changed everything!
Left/Right brain terminology is not up to date science, but it does provide a convenient metaphor for linguistic/logical thought vs. non-verbal sensory processing.
Here are some books which someone may find interesting. (The "Inner Game of Music" didn't do a lot for me, as it continually self-marketed 'the inner game'.)
Taking charge of your own mental perception and learning to shift into other modes or brainwave states is an element in various martial arts training, especially with the "internal" styles such as qi-gong, tai-chi ba-gua, etc.. It's also a big part in yoga, and various meditational and shamanic systems. Neural plasticity means that the brain rewires itself, and that it is possible to direct some of the rewiring through various exercises, practices, and drills.
I was at a three-day session this weekend, and on the last day sat down to learn a tune from a friend. He played the first couple of phrases and I noticed my analytical problem-solving thought process kick in. But I've learned to *not* approach tunes that way--it's too slow, and I don't enjoy thinking of tunes as problems to solve.
So I have no idea how this actually works, but I consciously stopped the analytical thinking and instead let the melody flood my brain so there's no room or time for words or pictures or anything except the tune. Even after years of easy learning this way, I still hear one last peep from the inner voice, saying, "don't turn me off! You *need* me! You won't get the tune!" And then the chatter stops and all I hear is the tune.
As soon as I do that--and it really is a conscious decision--the tune becomes much clearer and simpler, to the point where I can usually anticipate where it's going and play just a millisecond behind the person teaching the tune.
As Niles says, it's very much like meditation where you learn to focus in a specific way. In this case, for me at least, it helps to shut the verbal stuff down and let my brain simply sing. It also feels wonderful.
@ fiddlelearner -- There is / was a theory that the two halves of the brain worked in different ways. One was analytical, mathematical, logical, the other intuitive, emotional. Whichever of the halves was dominant (as in being left- or right-handed) would determine what sort of person you were (artistic or scientific) and how you approached things like playing musical instruments. The theory is generally accepted as being inaccurate, but it is still used as a metaphor.
anyone with half a brain could see the merits of both sides of this argument...or vice versa.
"it is possible to direct some of the rewiring through various exercises, practices, and drills."
Hmm...the drills part sounds painful and extreme.
I looked at the spinning dancer link above and I don’t understand why clockwise rotation would be associated with “right-brain” preference. It’s an interesting exercise, like the static picture that can be either a vase or two faces, but does it really say anything about one brain mode vs another?
Thanks for the responses. Niles H, I can see where the Inner Game uses marketing strategies; similar to Your Brain on Music (in 10,000 hours you too can be an expert...) Though from the YouTube I enjoyed hearing about Dave Brubeck feeling various rhythms as he worked on the family ranch outside of Ione, CA.
I'll update my reading;
Northwestern University
School of Communication
"Neural encoding of music"
So far, the contemplation of sheaves of books extolling the right brain have led me to the predictable conclusion that all the mental faculties worth having are found in the left one, and that the right brain is the body's equivalent to Somalia. It just seems to sit there engendering chaos and cheesy whimsies. I don't know if I want one. I don't know how much if any of this is true, come to that.
As that's an Australian website that has the dancer going round and round, isn't it all the other way around if you're viewing it from anywhere in the northern hemisphere? Sort of like water going down a plughole or something? I'm sure I saw something like that in an episode of the Simpsons.
I find the analytical part of my brain to be useful in the learning process- analyzing problems in my playing, what causes them, and devising possible solutions. (Which finger is lagging on that one??? What tunes are good exercises for that finger???) One big problem is that for me anyway, it's VERY SLOW. Pondering is PONDEROUS.
So I think it's best to leave the analytical side for the practice room.
Once I have a tune at least halfway comfortable and up to a speed where it's at least recognizable according to it's dance form, it's time to get intuitive- play with feeling, play with expression, pretend my fiddle is a set of pipes, or a singing voice, and try to get some of that fluidity going- bounce, lift, whatever- try and make it sound like some of the great recordings I've heard over the years.
An exception might be tuning or equipment problems- the analytical side can take care of those so the intuitive playful side can comfortably cut loose.
But for phrasing getting REALLY analytically accurate about it might mean ridiculous stuff like 1/32nd or 1/64th notes. it's just not worth the trouble.
I find the analytical side is very involved with reading sheet music. When a tune has been learned that way, I find a real conscious effort sometimes has to be made to shift gears.
The analytical side tends to view notes as if they are written in stone... but for a folk genre or even a popular genre they are really just a suggestion.
Other times boredom with the rigidity of the notes sets in and the little kid in me just decides to have FUN with it!!!
I like that. Even if we don't subscribe to the "right brain / left brain" idea, there's plenty to be gained from looking at things in both analytical and expressive ways (notice, not one or the other, but both, as I think fiddlepogo implies).
An example which I think illustrates this really well is that I had to get some furniture moved into my mother's room at her care home. Clearly, it was important to know what she wanted, but also whether it would fit. So I took photos of everything possible, took them to her place and we went through them. Once she'd chosen what she wanted, I then measured it all and drew up a plan of the room to check that it would fit without being in the way etc. And then of course, moved it in and got it just so. So to me that's a good illustration that both the intuitive ways of seeing and the hard facts go hand in hand - each on its own wouldn't have solved the particular problem of the furniture to our satisfaction.
wow.
and I thought it was fairly comprehensive thinking that left brain is linguistic and right brain is musical. Both meaning symbolic - symbiotically; and generally. Broadly speaking. I'm in two minds about it though.
Back to the OP... Betty Edwards describes, in her book, when she was young people would often comment she certainly has the gift for drawing. Her attitude was, 'not really'. She concluded that when she began a drawing she was in a particular state of mind & this isn't unique to only those with some unique ability. It's important to recognize what drawing is, or rather what it isn't. It is a very direct way to look at something & make an image of what one sees on a flat piece of paper. It's not oil painting which has many more things to consider such as mixing & applying colours.
There is art, & in the visual realm, drawing is only the beginning. What about composition, mixing the colour green, an enigmatic smile, perspective, the critics ... ?
I'm left-handed and my right brain doesn't know what it's doing from it's left!
I did receive recently a lovely re-assuring message from a member here who understood what I felt about left-handedness.
To explain, as a LH, to play a flute, guitar, fiddle etc., one has to use both hands...well blow me! What does a RH do?
I agree, many will ask what is the dominant hand, likewise ear. I understand this, but, AND YE GADS, a friend asked which hand I'd use to play a bodhran, I said left!!!
Llig, don't have a heart attack! My friend was trying to find out why I didn't strum a guitar...please no more seizures!
When I try to play guitar I fingerpick, occasionally when I've been asked to sing a song...sessioneers please relax.
Anyway, having written all that rubbish, I reckon my brian is as mad as anyone's...
Brain hemispheres
Brain hemispheres
My brother & sisters each seemed to be natural visual artists. Each of them also good singers. I was good with my hands, but crap with a drawing pencil. Until, at age 26, I read the book, "Drawing on the Right Side of Your Brain." I began drawing that very same day. It gave me a way to see which, in hind sight, never dawned on me. For the next 15 or so years I drew constantly, & took up painting. Eventually I left it behind for music.
Ironically I have played music since I was ten years. However, after years of trying to explain & understand music (with my mates, myself, & on this board) I think perhaps the left brain does complain too much. The breakthrough was when I bought the flute I am currently playing. It's not a great flute, just a Hammy Hamilton practice flute, but it helps give me the sound which is in my head. As much of a cliche as the Mustard Elite has made of this ~ I listen more closely. & while my left brain continues to chatter ... I *think* the musical conversation is between the flute, the tune, my mates & my right brain.
Now I know many of you are thinking Ben Steen has finally lost his last marble. Fair play, it was only a matter of time. ;)
Do you constantly heed the left brain while playing music, give way for the right brain, or is all this talk of brain halves of no consequence?
# Posted on May 1st 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: Brain hemispheres
I sometimes heed the left brain, often give way to the right brain (with much better results), and definitely find the "talk of halves" to have merit. You might enjoy a book called The Inner Game of Music by Barry Green with Timothy Gallwey (Doubleday, 1986).
A telltale sign of getting into the flow for me is when the words in my brain give way to visual pictures and images which are not associated to anything I would actively choose as related to the music, but just whatever pictures and "movies" my brain spontaneously presents my minds eye with as I'm playing. These images will pop up into my minds eye even when my eyes are open, and it is sometimes very interesting to see what they are.
# Posted on May 1st 2011 by Eliza Jane McNamara
Re: Brain hemispheres
And just to amuse yourself further, try to get this woman to turn the other way http://www.perthnow.com.au/fun-games/left-brain-vs-right-brain/story-e6frg46u-1111114517613
For me she continuously changes directions, every five or six turns and if I concentrate I can force her the other way.
But some days she will keep going in the same direction and nothing moves her the other way, weird stuff...
# Posted on May 1st 2011 by Theirlandais
Re: Brain hemispheres
although i appreciate the sentiment that thinking about music the wrong way is unhelpful, i just don't really believe in any of this left brain/right brain dominant skill behaviors. the research doesn't support it. there are specialized areas in the brain, but there are often parallel systems in the other half of the brain.
this misunderstanding comes from findings in brain damage which show language deficits are prevalent when damage occurs in the left hemisphere. however, as mark j. beeman and christine chiarello pointed out in their 1998 research article, "complementary right-and left-hemisphere language comprehension," the evidence shows that the left hemisphere processes DIFFERENT linguistic information than the right hemisphere.
damage in the right hemisphere language centers cause difficulty or inability to "get the big picture," what we might call long-order semantic connections. that means that left hemisphere brian damage will have devastating results in language comprehension, but right hemispheric damage will result in difficulty processing discourse. beeman and chiarello point out a particular case when researchers missed out on language deficits in a stroke victim named D.B., because they simply tested low-level language comprehension. the patient's own words:
"i understand words, but i'm missing the subtleties, the complex mosaic of meaning that is language." (beeman, 1993).
people say that you are thinking "left-sided" or "right-sided" based on misunderstandings of the research. analytic and linguistic thought is supposed to be left-brain, but in reality it is composed of left- and right-brain processing.
likewise, creativity it surely present in the left-hemisphere as well. the left-brain is not complaining too much.... perhaps it is not being involved enough?
# Posted on May 1st 2011 by daiv
Re: Brain hemispheres
How does the right brain function in music? Just curious - looked at the list from Theirlandais's link but couldn't figure out how that applied to music exactly.
I get that left brain is the part that says "is this roll right? is this note in tune? I wish that guy would quit stomping his foot out of time" etc. But what does the right brain have sway over with regards to music?
I haven't read the book you mentioned but maybe I'll go get it from the library
tia
# Posted on May 1st 2011 by thejigisup
Re: Brain hemispheres
when you talk about "left-brain complaining too much," that is actually more likely a pre-frontal cortex problem. the pre-frontal cortex is associated with inhibition and analytic thought... if you are over thinking, you are using your pre-frontal cortex for the wrong type of processing, and using it in BOTH hemispheres.
i agree that you shouldn't over think in music when it hurts performance, but with increased automaticity (i.e. experience) comes extra processing ability to think later.
# Posted on May 1st 2011 by daiv
Re: Brain hemispheres
I was at art college for five years from the age of 16, and have painted and drawn for fifty years. I have played music longer than that, and the two have always gone more or less in parallel. Sometimes I can be painting, and suddenly it 'feels' like playing, and as Eliza Jane McNamara says above, sometimes images present themselves in my mind's eye while I am playing.
There are those -- some of my friends included -- who analyse everything, and can't play a tune without knowing the key, chord progression, mode, meter and a multitude of other stuff I can barely understand. And there are those like me, who 'just play the fecker'.
I think we (meaning scientists) are gradually beginning to understand a little bit of what might be going on in the brain, but for the moment I'll go with the left / right model. All interesting stuff!
# Posted on May 1st 2011 by gam
Re: Brain hemispheres
daiv, it sounds like you've kept up with the brain science. I think I have read that Betty Edwards did not originally get it right as to how the hemispheres function. Fair play. However, it was her approach which completely changed how I approached drawing. It certainly motivated me to want to draw.
Music is different, so I didn't intend to imply that "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" applies with music. Just there is some type of brain shift which helps the music & another which hinders music.
Thanks Eliza, I just watched part 2 of Barry Green & Timothy Gallwey's 'Inner Games'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPqmMaZ0st0
# Posted on May 1st 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: Brain hemispheres
"Just there is some type of brain shift which helps *playing* music & another which hinders *playing* ..."
# Posted on May 1st 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: Brain hemispheres
The Prefrontal cortex just above the right temple is associated with insight and intuition. It's the part of your brain that solves problems without you having to draw a diagram of all the variables and study it before making a decision. I would suspect it is very important in Irish music particularly because we have to understand the tune as a "gestalt" or whole rather than a sum of it's notes.
Behrens, R. R. (1998). Art, design and gestalt theory. American Psychologist,
31, 299-303.
Boring, E. G. (1930). The “gestalt” psychology and the “gestalt” movement.
American Journal of Psychology, 42, 308-315
Kohler, W. (1959). Gestalt psychology today, American Psychologist, 14, 727-734
Myers, D.G. (2008). Exploring psychology,7th edition . 289-295
Ogden, R.M. (1932). Insight. American Journal of Psychology, 44, 350-356
Sokal, M. M. (1984). The gestalt psychologists in behaviourist America.
American Historical Review, 89, 1240-1263
# Posted on May 1st 2011 by Earl Cameron
Re: Brain hemispheres
My dad used to say, "He acts like he only has half a brain," when encountering an irritating person. I think that saying predates all this left and right brain stuff, though...
# Posted on May 1st 2011 by AlBrown
Re: Brain hemispheres
I believe that the whole brain is used in music... not as discreet as other functions.
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: Brain hemispheres
Put the brain aside for a moment ... what happens?
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by Ben Steen
I've just a few minutes before I can logoff for tonight. Wyogal, can you provide more information? I don't mean to be dismissive.
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: Brain hemispheres
I don't have the information right in front of me, but it's about all the different areas of the brain that are used to hear, play, react to what one hears, feels, making decisions.... not always consciously as in having the left brain over analyzing, or cortex, or whatever. It all works together.
That's one of the reasons why folks with dementia or alzheimers may not know much about their surroundings, or family, but they know the tunes.
Don't ask for the studies or the specific articles. I've read a lot of it over the years and am just generalizing from my studies. As well as my observations in playing music for the elderly in nursing homes.
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: Brain hemispheres
I often have to hose down irrelevant thoughts while I'm playing
or else it can go wonky. Like "what are those people getting
upset about over there?" Or "I wonder if she heard that wrong
note I just played ... " etc
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by Hup
Re: Brain hemispheres
Wyogal, thanks for not knowing the specific articles. I seriously think Betty Edwards did not fully understand brain functions when she wrote her book. Does anyone, really? What was more significant to me at the time was the fact that something I struggled against (art ~ drawing) became available to me through her book. After which I loved to draw. She helped me discover art & with that my ability to express myself. Changed everything!
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: Brain hemispheres
I just take it for granted these days and don't really need an article to tell me what seems to be common sense.
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by Wyogal
Re: Brain hemispheres
Left/Right brain terminology is not up to date science, but it does provide a convenient metaphor for linguistic/logical thought vs. non-verbal sensory processing.
Here are some books which someone may find interesting. (The "Inner Game of Music" didn't do a lot for me, as it continually self-marketed 'the inner game'.)
Kenny Werner - "Effortless Mastery: Liberating the Master Musician Within"
http://www.amazon.com/Effortless-Mastery-Liberating-Master-Musician/dp/156224003X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304306066&sr=1-1
Victor Wooten - "The Music Lesson"
http://www.amazon.com/Music-Lesson-Spiritual-Search-Through/dp/0425220931/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304306182&sr=1-1
Twyla Tharp - "The Creative Habit: Learn It And Use It For Life"
http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Habit-Learn-Use-Life/dp/0743235274/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304306310&sr=1-1
Carla Hannaford - "Smart Moves: Why Learning is Not All In Your Head"
http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Moves-Learning-Your-Second/dp/0915556375/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1304306416&sr=1-1
W.A.Mathieu - "The Listening Book: Discovering Your Own Music"
http://www.amazon.com/Listening-Book-Discovering-Your-Music/dp/0877736103/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304306632&sr=1-1
Taking charge of your own mental perception and learning to shift into other modes or brainwave states is an element in various martial arts training, especially with the "internal" styles such as qi-gong, tai-chi ba-gua, etc.. It's also a big part in yoga, and various meditational and shamanic systems. Neural plasticity means that the brain rewires itself, and that it is possible to direct some of the rewiring through various exercises, practices, and drills.
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by Niles H
Re: Brain hemispheres
I was at a three-day session this weekend, and on the last day sat down to learn a tune from a friend. He played the first couple of phrases and I noticed my analytical problem-solving thought process kick in. But I've learned to *not* approach tunes that way--it's too slow, and I don't enjoy thinking of tunes as problems to solve.
So I have no idea how this actually works, but I consciously stopped the analytical thinking and instead let the melody flood my brain so there's no room or time for words or pictures or anything except the tune. Even after years of easy learning this way, I still hear one last peep from the inner voice, saying, "don't turn me off! You *need* me! You won't get the tune!" And then the chatter stops and all I hear is the tune.
As soon as I do that--and it really is a conscious decision--the tune becomes much clearer and simpler, to the point where I can usually anticipate where it's going and play just a millisecond behind the person teaching the tune.
As Niles says, it's very much like meditation where you learn to focus in a specific way. In this case, for me at least, it helps to shut the verbal stuff down and let my brain simply sing. It also feels wonderful.
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: Brain hemispheres
"Do you constantly heed the left brain while playing music, give way for the right brain, or is all this talk of brain halves of no consequence?"
What does this mean?
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: Brain hemispheres
It refers to the metaphor at the start of Niles H's post.
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by David50
Re: Brain hemispheres
@ fiddlelearner -- There is / was a theory that the two halves of the brain worked in different ways. One was analytical, mathematical, logical, the other intuitive, emotional. Whichever of the halves was dominant (as in being left- or right-handed) would determine what sort of person you were (artistic or scientific) and how you approached things like playing musical instruments. The theory is generally accepted as being inaccurate, but it is still used as a metaphor.
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by gam
Re: Brain hemispheres
anyone with half a brain could see the merits of both sides of this argument...or vice versa.
"it is possible to direct some of the rewiring through various exercises, practices, and drills."
Hmm...the drills part sounds painful and extreme.
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Brain hemispheres
The rewiring part sounds a little dodgy to me. Does anyone know a good contractor? I'd like someone reliable for this job.
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Brain hemispheres
yes, one needs dodgy rewiring like a hole in the head.
ohhh, stop now.
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Brain hemispheres
I looked at the spinning dancer link above and I don’t understand why clockwise rotation would be associated with “right-brain” preference. It’s an interesting exercise, like the static picture that can be either a vase or two faces, but does it really say anything about one brain mode vs another?
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by Bob himself
Re: Brain hemispheres
that spinning dancer makes my head spin, which really hurts my neck after a while.
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Brain hemispheres
"anyone with half a brain could see the merits of both sides of this argument...or vice versa."
Yes, but which half?
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Brain hemispheres
hang on, I'll have to get my head around that.
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Abbie Normal's Brain
Thanks for the responses. Niles H, I can see where the Inner Game uses marketing strategies; similar to Your Brain on Music (in 10,000 hours you too can be an expert...) Though from the YouTube I enjoyed hearing about Dave Brubeck feeling various rhythms as he worked on the family ranch outside of Ione, CA.
I'll update my reading;
Northwestern University
School of Communication
"Neural encoding of music"
links to articles ~
http://www.soc.northwestern.edu/brainvolts/projects/music/index.php
pdf for one of the articles
http://www.soc.northwestern.edu/brainvolts/documents/KrausChandrasekeran_NRN10.pdf
(there is a small bit in this article about learning 'by ear' vs. reliance on non-aural strategies ~ 'Selective enhancement in the brain')
It's Science!
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: Brain hemispheres
..the top half.
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Brain hemispheres
So far, the contemplation of sheaves of books extolling the right brain have led me to the predictable conclusion that all the mental faculties worth having are found in the left one, and that the right brain is the body's equivalent to Somalia. It just seems to sit there engendering chaos and cheesy whimsies. I don't know if I want one. I don't know how much if any of this is true, come to that.
I'll have to read more.
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by nicholas
Re: Brain hemispheres
As that's an Australian website that has the dancer going round and round, isn't it all the other way around if you're viewing it from anywhere in the northern hemisphere? Sort of like water going down a plughole or something? I'm sure I saw something like that in an episode of the Simpsons.
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by Mark Harmer
Re: Brain hemispheres
you have to stand on your head up there of course, to view that website. Then it all falls into place.Why didn't you know that?
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Brain hemispheres
While we are at this heavy subject, Anyone want to see the wonders of the greatest force in the universe - Namely Gravity !
jim,,, ; )
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=jJrzIdDUfT4&vq=medium
# Posted on May 2nd 2011 by FIDDLE4
Re: Brain hemispheres
@ Skull Duggeraigh Dubh - thanks! Actually, I solved it by turning my monitor upside down (although it's cruel to that lizard).
# Posted on May 3rd 2011 by Mark Harmer
Re: Brain hemispheres
thank goodness for that...
at least you didn't make the mistake of turning it inside out first...they *really* do not like that.
# Posted on May 3rd 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Brain hemispheres
Mmmm....roadkill....
# Posted on May 3rd 2011 by Mark Harmer
Re: Brain hemispheres
catskills.
# Posted on May 3rd 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Brain hemispheres
I think there is something to it.
I find the analytical part of my brain to be useful in the learning process- analyzing problems in my playing, what causes them, and devising possible solutions. (Which finger is lagging on that one??? What tunes are good exercises for that finger???) One big problem is that for me anyway, it's VERY SLOW. Pondering is PONDEROUS.
So I think it's best to leave the analytical side for the practice room.
Once I have a tune at least halfway comfortable and up to a speed where it's at least recognizable according to it's dance form, it's time to get intuitive- play with feeling, play with expression, pretend my fiddle is a set of pipes, or a singing voice, and try to get some of that fluidity going- bounce, lift, whatever- try and make it sound like some of the great recordings I've heard over the years.
An exception might be tuning or equipment problems- the analytical side can take care of those so the intuitive playful side can comfortably cut loose.
But for phrasing getting REALLY analytically accurate about it might mean ridiculous stuff like 1/32nd or 1/64th notes. it's just not worth the trouble.
I find the analytical side is very involved with reading sheet music. When a tune has been learned that way, I find a real conscious effort sometimes has to be made to shift gears.
The analytical side tends to view notes as if they are written in stone... but for a folk genre or even a popular genre they are really just a suggestion.
Other times boredom with the rigidity of the notes sets in and the little kid in me just decides to have FUN with it!!!
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by fiddlepogo
Re: Brain hemispheres
I like that. Even if we don't subscribe to the "right brain / left brain" idea, there's plenty to be gained from looking at things in both analytical and expressive ways (notice, not one or the other, but both, as I think fiddlepogo implies).
An example which I think illustrates this really well is that I had to get some furniture moved into my mother's room at her care home. Clearly, it was important to know what she wanted, but also whether it would fit. So I took photos of everything possible, took them to her place and we went through them. Once she'd chosen what she wanted, I then measured it all and drew up a plan of the room to check that it would fit without being in the way etc. And then of course, moved it in and got it just so. So to me that's a good illustration that both the intuitive ways of seeing and the hard facts go hand in hand - each on its own wouldn't have solved the particular problem of the furniture to our satisfaction.
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by Mark Harmer
Re: Brain hemispheres
wow.
and I thought it was fairly comprehensive thinking that left brain is linguistic and right brain is musical. Both meaning symbolic - symbiotically; and generally. Broadly speaking. I'm in two minds about it though.
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Brain hemispheres
meaning-symbolic, I mean.
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Brain hemispheres
Back to the OP... Betty Edwards describes, in her book, when she was young people would often comment she certainly has the gift for drawing. Her attitude was, 'not really'. She concluded that when she began a drawing she was in a particular state of mind & this isn't unique to only those with some unique ability. It's important to recognize what drawing is, or rather what it isn't. It is a very direct way to look at something & make an image of what one sees on a flat piece of paper. It's not oil painting which has many more things to consider such as mixing & applying colours.
There is art, & in the visual realm, drawing is only the beginning. What about composition, mixing the colour green, an enigmatic smile, perspective, the critics ... ?
# Posted on May 5th 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: Prime Brian...he's...he's...
Well you got it!
I'm left-handed and my right brain doesn't know what it's doing from it's left!
I did receive recently a lovely re-assuring message from a member here who understood what I felt about left-handedness.
To explain, as a LH, to play a flute, guitar, fiddle etc., one has to use both hands...well blow me! What does a RH do?
I agree, many will ask what is the dominant hand, likewise ear. I understand this, but, AND YE GADS, a friend asked which hand I'd use to play a bodhran, I said left!!!
Llig, don't have a heart attack! My friend was trying to find out why I didn't strum a guitar...please no more seizures!
When I try to play guitar I fingerpick, occasionally when I've been asked to sing a song...sessioneers please relax.
Anyway, having written all that rubbish, I reckon my brian is as mad as anyone's...
Blest lathe!
Brian xx
# Posted on May 7th 2011 by briantheflute
Re: Brain hemispheres
Sh*t! I did an inappropriate ' ...should read "its left"
Bx
# Posted on May 7th 2011 by briantheflute