I observe that in several tunes in D major (e.g. The Maid Behind the Bar, The Merry Blacksmith etc.) there are no low G notes, but there are high g notes. I would expect that the musical reason (for choosing the hexatonic scale) would exclude both low G and high g.
So maybe there is some TECHNICAL (instrument related) reason, e.g. difficult fingering of low G and easier fingering of high g. Is it the case? On which instrument?
For starters, flutes and whistles don't like anything below D, and a low G or A is generally not possible unless you have a special instrument. The fiddle is essentially a treble instrument, and if you look at music for it in most genres, notes below D are noticeably less frequent than the higher. Another technical reason, as far as the fiddle is concerned, is that the low notes from G to C have much weaker fundamentals than notes from the D upwards. This is why, if you listen to an open G you can hear a lot more of the first harmonic coming through than you can of the fundamental. The basic reason is the relatively small physical volume of the violin. When you get to a much larger instrument such as the cello the bottom string (the "C") really does sound its fundamental frequency properly.
I haven't played much on gut strings, but it seems that the G is weaker than the other strings, and probably would be harder to hear when you're playing for dances. Modern G's are not as bad.
It seems that very few older tunes use more than occasional note on the G string.
Thanks Trevor - your explanation makes sense of the problems I have with the C on the octave strung viola!
Yep, I reckon it's at least partly to do with them whistles and flutes. The harmonicas I play most, blues harps, have a missing note in the bottom octave (the sixth of the scale). This hardly ever matters in D tunes because D tunes hardly ever go below the bottom D, but with G harmonicas I have to retune to get that missing note in most G tunes (the E below that bottom G, which would be no problem on a whistle or flute). One famous pair of D hornpipes, Home Ruler and Kitty's Wedding, both break the "rule" and go below the D. Off the top of my head I can't think of any others that do that.
I'm not sure the acoustics of the fiddle is the reason for the lack of low Gs, as it can sound beautiful on a good fiddle - there are a quite few tunes (mostly composed by fiddlers) that capitalise on it. The problem is, for pipes/flute/whistle players, notes below D need to be changed, and if there's a lot going on below D, then whole passages have to be modified (either 'compressed' to fit the range or shifted up an octave), sometimes to the detriment of the tune.
But what you seem to be asking, Mirek, is specifically about low *G*, not about low notes in general. As I have already mentioned, there *are* tunes that use low G - mostly tunes in G or in A dorian, I would think (there are probably more in theDonegal repertoire, being a fiddle-centred tradition). I cannot think of any examples of tunes in D (or D modes) that use low G (although I be surprised if there weren't a few). I do not a have a definitive reason for this, but I think it is worth considering that notes below the 'home note' of a tune have a different melodic function from those higher up the register, in that they hold much more harmonic 'weight'. Low A in a D tune fits comfortably with the tonic chord and the dominant chord, whilst B and C# fit in as passing notes. Low C-natural strongly suggests the flattened 7th chord, as in the Mixolydian and Dorian modes. Low G strongly suggests the subdominant chord, which is perhaps a less obvious resting place for the tune; low G cannot be a passing note, as it has nowhere to pass to or from.
Are there many tunes in G that use low C?
I don't know if I've made any sense. No doubt someone will tear me to shreds for my vagueness - please do.
Modern fiddles in a concert or session can really make the most of the low end - some of us go even lower and end up with a viola!
A couple of times a year I play for social dancing unamplified. It's - interesting - playing over the sound of feet, people telling each what to do, people sitting out and chatting. A tune that made a lot of use of the G string would be difficult - and, as you say, the flute player hasn't got those notes anyway.
The harmonic reasons in the second para. of the post above sound good, but my knowledge of theory is shaky and I'm just pleased I managed to understand it!
I thought the OP was asking about the G in the first octave of whistle and flute that the tunes in D that he mentioned (The Maid Behind the Bar and The Merry Blacksmith) don't have even though they do have the G in the second octave. As if they are gapped scales in one octave but not the other.
Ah, good. I'll come back later and see if you get any answers !
I can't see any technical reason on whistle or flute. I wonder if its something to so with how the tradition uses its normal octave-and-a-fifth range. Like the way in which B parts of tunes often use the top part of that range more than the A parts do.
This is common in Highland bagpipe tunes. The reason is that the low G (the bottom note in the compass, GABc#def#ga) is the loudest note on the chanter and the most dissonant against the A of the drones - it's also usually not quite in tune with the upper-octave g. So you use it when you want a very dramatic effect.
I suspect it's usually the result of a tune having migrated from some instrument with similar characteristics.
Re: Technical reason for "less G's" in the first octave?
Sorry for all your brain cells wasted by answering to different question. I should have titled the discussion differently. I am aware of the lowest D note of the pipe/whistle.
On whistle, both Gs (in the first octave as well as in the second octave) are fingered by lower-hand fingers open and upper-hand fingers closed - right? So at the first sight I do not see the technical issue here, but maybe it is related to some kind of pipes ornamentation (and here I just speculate without any knowledge) - e. g. the tones in the first octave might be ornamented in some way, which is difficult in case of G, and the tones in the second octave are not ornamented that way. (???).
Or, maybe it has something to do with the interaction with the drones of pipes. A) If there are only root (D) and octave (d) and 2octave (d') drones, maybe the fourth (G) in the first octave sounds dissonant and in the second octave does not. B) If there is also the drone of fifth (A), there might be unacceptable clash with that first-octave G and somehow acceptable with the second-octave g. (???)
One other pipe-related issue - the present Highland pipe chanter, with the notes of a mixolydian scale and an extra tone below, is historically quite recent. Older types of pipe, and those found across the rest of Europe, more often have a major scale with maybe an added tone at the top. (The keyless Northumbrian pipe is like that). If a tune passed through the repertoire of a pipe of that type, the low G would be missing.
The 'present' Highland pipe chanter is not based on the notes of a mixolydian scale, and it has not changed for centuries. It is actually based on three pentatonic scales, G, A and D.
I associate tunes going below D, and certainly down to the bottom G, , mainly with fiddles and fiddlers - Tommy Peoples' reel The Green Fields Of Glentown being a notable example.
I don't know if any sets of the developed Northumbrian Pipes have gone down to G, , but they do go down to B, and to C natural, and some Northumbrian tunes composed with these notes definitely lose something if they are played on an instrument where these low notes are not available. (N.B. - I refer nominally to a G scale here - these pipes are usually made to play in F.)
Pete Stewart's book "The Day it Dawes" covers the early history of the bagpipe in Scotland - we know about a lot more than the 500-odd years of the Highland pipe.
The oldest music for bagpipes in Scotland is not pentatonic. Neither is much of the oldest piobaireachd, a few centuries later. We have bugger-all evidence for pentatonic music in Scotland before the 17th century. It probably did exist, but no way is it the foundation of the music we have now. (A lot of pentatonic music is from the 19th century, created for the British Army to march to - there is good reason for that, the tonal contrast you get by switching between one pentatonic mode and another helps keep marching men energized).
Of course you can fit pentatonic scales into the nine notes of the chanter. Throw in pentatonic scales on E, B and F# while you're at it. There is no earthly reason to believe this was part of the design rationale for the instrument.
The tunes the OP suggested do not have the lower G at or below the bottom of the range as on a GHB chanter. In their current form they end on the D below that. (as an aside are tunes in D that come home to the higher D more likely to be from a GHB scale ?). How common is it to miss the lower G ?
I'm going to go with different tonal and modal centres in the A and B parts. The A part typically stays on the lower end (with the low G) and the B part typically stays on the higher end (with the high g).
I doubt very much whether it is a technical issue*. I think it's just the way the tunes go. Its absence from certain tunes might be a relic of a time when all Irish music was hexatonic or pentatonic - and its presence in others is just an indication that such a time has passed. Melody is a complex thing, however simple it may sound; I am sure there are people who have delved deeper into the subject of why tunes are constructed the way they are, why they arrive at this note in this place and so on. The absence of G in the 1st octave is not something I had ever noticed before, but I imagine it is just one of many characteristics that marks out the Irishness of a tune.
*...there again, if we go back far enough, to a time when people were playing 4-hole flutes, there could be something in it.
Yeah, as David50 says the model I had in mind doesn't fit those two examples. This is BarFly's report on the pitches used in The Merry Blacksmith (the number of stars represents the number of times a note at that pitch occurs):
D ****
D#
E
F
F# ****************
G
G#
A ****************************************************
A#
B ********************************
c
c# ****
d ************************************************
d#
e **********************************
f
f# **********************
g ************
g#
a ********
There's a D triad at the bottom of the range, and most of the notes of the tune fit that or the triad an octave above. Interlaced with that you have A major and B minor triads. It's almost as if the tune was written for the bugle - the pitch spectrum resembles the overtone scale. I guess avoiding the low G tells you no part of the tune needs a G chord.
To me the tune sounds quite song-like, though with dance-music elaborations. Anybody know of a vocal antecedent?
Re: Technical reason for "no G's" in the first octave?
Thanks for many insightful replies, however I must admit that maybe my premise is statistically not substantiated.
Out of top 20 tunes in the tunebooks (go to Members and then Tunebook) this condition [no G in the 1st octave, g in the 2nd octave] applies just to Drowsy Maggie, and The Wind That Shakes The Barley. I understand that it would be rational to perform the check on the D major tunes only - but I will rather practice the tunes
I looked through the first 200 D Major reels alphabetically, clicking only on the titles that I recognized as traditional Irish and a few that I thought probably were. (By the way, that was under 20% of the tunes in the database.) "Yes" means high g occurs but low G doesn't. 8 out of 34 (10 out of 34 if you count versions in the comments) fit the bill. Several others have G just once or twice, usually at the end of the A part, often just as a passing tone. I think this frequency is enough to suspect that there's some underlying reason.
Aggie Whyte’s – no
Anderson’s – yes
Andy McGann’s – no
Anything for John Joe? - no
Banks of the Ilen – no
Bar Na Cuille – no
Bean An Ti Ar Lar – no
Belles of Tipperary – no (a version in the comments – yes)
Biddy From Muckross – yes
Big John’s – no
Bill O’Malley’s – no G’s or g’s
Billy Brocker’s – no
Bobby Casey’s – yes
Bonnie Kate – no
Boyne Hunt – yes
Boys of Ballinahinch – yes
Boys of the Lough – no
Boys of Tulla – yes
Bucks of Oranmore – no (Matt Molloy’s version in comments – yes)
The Burren – yes
Caher Rua – no (a version in the comments – yes)
Callaghan’s – no (just one G, no g’s)
Callan Lasses – no
Cameronian – no
Cocktail – no
College Groves – no
Concertina – no G’s or g’s
Connaught Heifers – no
Convenience – no
Corney is Coming – no
Cottage on the Hill – yes
Cow That Ate the Blanket – yes
Craig’s – no
Crehan’s Kitchen – no G’s or g’s
This to me seems more of a statistical artifact - note counts using the settings here are arbitrary, I wouldn't play the M.B. the way it's noted up front, for instance; that setting, like so many others, has no rolls, and my usual tack is to play abag fgfe dcdA BAFB in the 2nd part. Variations could employ a low G - FAGB ABcd Beed egfe d3A BAFB ABdA BAFG etc.
The melody of this tune also mostly covers the top half of the first octave and up, so it's not surprising low G isn't featured - neither is low F or E, much. It's not particularly ancient, either - first publication was in the 1880s, and both Joyce and O'Neill collected it sometime around then as well, publishing their settings later. Of course it could also be a souped up version of some reel for the old pipes that simply wasn't picked up before then, too. As usual, impossible to say.
Finding a setting of a tune that has a particular note doesn't tell you anything, but finding a setting that omits it tells you that it isn't an essential part of the tune. It's easy to add unimportant notes, but it's hard to take important notes out.
I have noticed many tunes with anomalies such as this one. Not uncommon to find dance tunes with a pure pentatonic first part (tune), for example, with one or both missing notes included in the second part (turn).
Couple of examples that spring to mind immediately: Cronin's hornpipe, Shores of Lough Rea.
I suspect that in some cases at least the tune was an older air, or a song tune, and when it was turned into a dance tune the musician wittingly or unwittingly changed the basic nature of the piece by calling on the missing notes.
For a period (long time ago now) I was obsessed with the idea of "correcting" these tunes (i.e. finding a way of playing the second part without the notes that don't appear in the first), with interesting results, sometimes very satisfying, other times less satisfying.
Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
I observe that in several tunes in D major (e.g. The Maid Behind the Bar, The Merry Blacksmith etc.) there are no low G notes, but there are high g notes. I would expect that the musical reason (for choosing the hexatonic scale) would exclude both low G and high g.
So maybe there is some TECHNICAL (instrument related) reason, e.g. difficult fingering of low G and easier fingering of high g. Is it the case? On which instrument?
# Posted on April 23rd 2011 by Mirek Patek
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
For starters, flutes and whistles don't like anything below D, and a low G or A is generally not possible unless you have a special instrument. The fiddle is essentially a treble instrument, and if you look at music for it in most genres, notes below D are noticeably less frequent than the higher. Another technical reason, as far as the fiddle is concerned, is that the low notes from G to C have much weaker fundamentals than notes from the D upwards. This is why, if you listen to an open G you can hear a lot more of the first harmonic coming through than you can of the fundamental. The basic reason is the relatively small physical volume of the violin. When you get to a much larger instrument such as the cello the bottom string (the "C") really does sound its fundamental frequency properly.
# Posted on April 23rd 2011 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
I haven't played much on gut strings, but it seems that the G is weaker than the other strings, and probably would be harder to hear when you're playing for dances. Modern G's are not as bad.
It seems that very few older tunes use more than occasional note on the G string.
Thanks Trevor - your explanation makes sense of the problems I have with the C on the octave strung viola!
# Posted on April 23rd 2011 by c.g.
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
Yep, I reckon it's at least partly to do with them whistles and flutes. The harmonicas I play most, blues harps, have a missing note in the bottom octave (the sixth of the scale). This hardly ever matters in D tunes because D tunes hardly ever go below the bottom D, but with G harmonicas I have to retune to get that missing note in most G tunes (the E below that bottom G, which would be no problem on a whistle or flute). One famous pair of D hornpipes, Home Ruler and Kitty's Wedding, both break the "rule" and go below the D. Off the top of my head I can't think of any others that do that.
# Posted on April 23rd 2011 by Steve Shaw
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
I hope all that talk of bottoms wasn't too confusing.
# Posted on April 23rd 2011 by Steve Shaw
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
I'm not sure the acoustics of the fiddle is the reason for the lack of low Gs, as it can sound beautiful on a good fiddle - there are a quite few tunes (mostly composed by fiddlers) that capitalise on it. The problem is, for pipes/flute/whistle players, notes below D need to be changed, and if there's a lot going on below D, then whole passages have to be modified (either 'compressed' to fit the range or shifted up an octave), sometimes to the detriment of the tune.
But what you seem to be asking, Mirek, is specifically about low *G*, not about low notes in general. As I have already mentioned, there *are* tunes that use low G - mostly tunes in G or in A dorian, I would think (there are probably more in theDonegal repertoire, being a fiddle-centred tradition). I cannot think of any examples of tunes in D (or D modes) that use low G (although I be surprised if there weren't a few). I do not a have a definitive reason for this, but I think it is worth considering that notes below the 'home note' of a tune have a different melodic function from those higher up the register, in that they hold much more harmonic 'weight'. Low A in a D tune fits comfortably with the tonic chord and the dominant chord, whilst B and C# fit in as passing notes. Low C-natural strongly suggests the flattened 7th chord, as in the Mixolydian and Dorian modes. Low G strongly suggests the subdominant chord, which is perhaps a less obvious resting place for the tune; low G cannot be a passing note, as it has nowhere to pass to or from.
Are there many tunes in G that use low C?
I don't know if I've made any sense. No doubt someone will tear me to shreds for my vagueness - please do.
# Posted on April 23rd 2011 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
A G tune with a low C is Tommy Bhetty's Waltz. The Ook Pik Waltz also has one. An A tune with a low D is The Dark Island. Flippin' waltzes!
# Posted on April 23rd 2011 by Steve Shaw
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
Modern fiddles in a concert or session can really make the most of the low end - some of us go even lower and end up with a viola!
A couple of times a year I play for social dancing unamplified. It's - interesting - playing over the sound of feet, people telling each what to do, people sitting out and chatting. A tune that made a lot of use of the G string would be difficult - and, as you say, the flute player hasn't got those notes anyway.
The harmonic reasons in the second para. of the post above sound good, but my knowledge of theory is shaky and I'm just pleased I managed to understand it!
# Posted on April 23rd 2011 by c.g.
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
I thought the OP was asking about the G in the first octave of whistle and flute that the tunes in D that he mentioned (The Maid Behind the Bar and The Merry Blacksmith) don't have even though they do have the G in the second octave. As if they are gapped scales in one octave but not the other.
# Posted on April 23rd 2011 by David50
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
David50 - yes, that exactly was my question.
By "low G" I meant the first G above the lowest D note.
By "high g" I meant the g one octave higher.
# Posted on April 23rd 2011 by Mirek Patek
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
Darn! I used up all those brain cells for nothing.
# Posted on April 23rd 2011 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
Ah, good. I'll come back later and see if you get any answers !
I can't see any technical reason on whistle or flute. I wonder if its something to so with how the tradition uses its normal octave-and-a-fifth range. Like the way in which B parts of tunes often use the top part of that range more than the A parts do.
# Posted on April 23rd 2011 by David50
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
This is common in Highland bagpipe tunes. The reason is that the low G (the bottom note in the compass, GABc#def#ga) is the loudest note on the chanter and the most dissonant against the A of the drones - it's also usually not quite in tune with the upper-octave g. So you use it when you want a very dramatic effect.
I suspect it's usually the result of a tune having migrated from some instrument with similar characteristics.
# Posted on April 23rd 2011 by Jack Campin
Re: Technical reason for "less G's" in the first octave?
Sorry for all your brain cells wasted by answering to different question. I should have titled the discussion differently. I am aware of the lowest D note of the pipe/whistle.
On whistle, both Gs (in the first octave as well as in the second octave) are fingered by lower-hand fingers open and upper-hand fingers closed - right? So at the first sight I do not see the technical issue here, but maybe it is related to some kind of pipes ornamentation (and here I just speculate without any knowledge) - e. g. the tones in the first octave might be ornamented in some way, which is difficult in case of G, and the tones in the second octave are not ornamented that way. (???).
Or, maybe it has something to do with the interaction with the drones of pipes. A) If there are only root (D) and octave (d) and 2octave (d') drones, maybe the fourth (G) in the first octave sounds dissonant and in the second octave does not. B) If there is also the drone of fifth (A), there might be unacceptable clash with that first-octave G and somehow acceptable with the second-octave g. (???)
# Posted on April 23rd 2011 by Mirek Patek
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
Jack Campin - I was typing my post while you sent yours
Thanks!
# Posted on April 23rd 2011 by Mirek Patek
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
One other pipe-related issue - the present Highland pipe chanter, with the notes of a mixolydian scale and an extra tone below, is historically quite recent. Older types of pipe, and those found across the rest of Europe, more often have a major scale with maybe an added tone at the top. (The keyless Northumbrian pipe is like that). If a tune passed through the repertoire of a pipe of that type, the low G would be missing.
# Posted on April 23rd 2011 by Jack Campin
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
The 'present' Highland pipe chanter is not based on the notes of a mixolydian scale, and it has not changed for centuries. It is actually based on three pentatonic scales, G, A and D.
# Posted on April 23rd 2011 by gam
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
I associate tunes going below D, and certainly down to the bottom G, , mainly with fiddles and fiddlers - Tommy Peoples' reel The Green Fields Of Glentown being a notable example.
I don't know if any sets of the developed Northumbrian Pipes have gone down to G, , but they do go down to B, and to C natural, and some Northumbrian tunes composed with these notes definitely lose something if they are played on an instrument where these low notes are not available. (N.B. - I refer nominally to a G scale here - these pipes are usually made to play in F.)
# Posted on April 23rd 2011 by nicholas
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
Pete Stewart's book "The Day it Dawes" covers the early history of the bagpipe in Scotland - we know about a lot more than the 500-odd years of the Highland pipe.
The oldest music for bagpipes in Scotland is not pentatonic. Neither is much of the oldest piobaireachd, a few centuries later. We have bugger-all evidence for pentatonic music in Scotland before the 17th century. It probably did exist, but no way is it the foundation of the music we have now. (A lot of pentatonic music is from the 19th century, created for the British Army to march to - there is good reason for that, the tonal contrast you get by switching between one pentatonic mode and another helps keep marching men energized).
Of course you can fit pentatonic scales into the nine notes of the chanter. Throw in pentatonic scales on E, B and F# while you're at it. There is no earthly reason to believe this was part of the design rationale for the instrument.
# Posted on April 23rd 2011 by Jack Campin
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
Nearly all piobaireachd is pentatonic. They are almost always in the keys D G or A
# Posted on April 23rd 2011 by gam
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
The tunes the OP suggested do not have the lower G at or below the bottom of the range as on a GHB chanter. In their current form they end on the D below that. (as an aside are tunes in D that come home to the higher D more likely to be from a GHB scale ?). How common is it to miss the lower G ?
# Posted on April 23rd 2011 by David50
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
I'm going to go with different tonal and modal centres in the A and B parts. The A part typically stays on the lower end (with the low G) and the B part typically stays on the higher end (with the high g).
# Posted on April 23rd 2011 by Tirno
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
I doubt very much whether it is a technical issue*. I think it's just the way the tunes go. Its absence from certain tunes might be a relic of a time when all Irish music was hexatonic or pentatonic - and its presence in others is just an indication that such a time has passed. Melody is a complex thing, however simple it may sound; I am sure there are people who have delved deeper into the subject of why tunes are constructed the way they are, why they arrive at this note in this place and so on. The absence of G in the 1st octave is not something I had ever noticed before, but I imagine it is just one of many characteristics that marks out the Irishness of a tune.
*...there again, if we go back far enough, to a time when people were playing 4-hole flutes, there could be something in it.
# Posted on April 24th 2011 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
Yeah, as David50 says the model I had in mind doesn't fit those two examples. This is BarFly's report on the pitches used in The Merry Blacksmith (the number of stars represents the number of times a note at that pitch occurs):
D ****
D#
E
F
F# ****************
G
G#
A ****************************************************
A#
B ********************************
c
c# ****
d ************************************************
d#
e **********************************
f
f# **********************
g ************
g#
a ********
There's a D triad at the bottom of the range, and most of the notes of the tune fit that or the triad an octave above. Interlaced with that you have A major and B minor triads. It's almost as if the tune was written for the bugle - the pitch spectrum resembles the overtone scale. I guess avoiding the low G tells you no part of the tune needs a G chord.
To me the tune sounds quite song-like, though with dance-music elaborations. Anybody know of a vocal antecedent?
# Posted on April 24th 2011 by Jack Campin
Re: Technical reason for "no G's" in the first octave?
Thanks for many insightful replies, however I must admit that maybe my premise is statistically not substantiated.
Out of top 20 tunes in the tunebooks (go to Members and then Tunebook) this condition [no G in the 1st octave, g in the 2nd octave] applies just to Drowsy Maggie, and The Wind That Shakes The Barley. I understand that it would be rational to perform the check on the D major tunes only - but I will rather practice the tunes
# Posted on April 24th 2011 by Mirek Patek
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
I looked through the first 200 D Major reels alphabetically, clicking only on the titles that I recognized as traditional Irish and a few that I thought probably were. (By the way, that was under 20% of the tunes in the database.) "Yes" means high g occurs but low G doesn't. 8 out of 34 (10 out of 34 if you count versions in the comments) fit the bill. Several others have G just once or twice, usually at the end of the A part, often just as a passing tone. I think this frequency is enough to suspect that there's some underlying reason.
Aggie Whyte’s – no
Anderson’s – yes
Andy McGann’s – no
Anything for John Joe? - no
Banks of the Ilen – no
Bar Na Cuille – no
Bean An Ti Ar Lar – no
Belles of Tipperary – no (a version in the comments – yes)
Biddy From Muckross – yes
Big John’s – no
Bill O’Malley’s – no G’s or g’s
Billy Brocker’s – no
Bobby Casey’s – yes
Bonnie Kate – no
Boyne Hunt – yes
Boys of Ballinahinch – yes
Boys of the Lough – no
Boys of Tulla – yes
Bucks of Oranmore – no (Matt Molloy’s version in comments – yes)
The Burren – yes
Caher Rua – no (a version in the comments – yes)
Callaghan’s – no (just one G, no g’s)
Callan Lasses – no
Cameronian – no
Cocktail – no
College Groves – no
Concertina – no G’s or g’s
Connaught Heifers – no
Convenience – no
Corney is Coming – no
Cottage on the Hill – yes
Cow That Ate the Blanket – yes
Craig’s – no
Crehan’s Kitchen – no G’s or g’s
# Posted on April 24th 2011 by GaryAMartin
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
This to me seems more of a statistical artifact - note counts using the settings here are arbitrary, I wouldn't play the M.B. the way it's noted up front, for instance; that setting, like so many others, has no rolls, and my usual tack is to play abag fgfe dcdA BAFB in the 2nd part. Variations could employ a low G - FAGB ABcd Beed egfe d3A BAFB ABdA BAFG etc.
The melody of this tune also mostly covers the top half of the first octave and up, so it's not surprising low G isn't featured - neither is low F or E, much. It's not particularly ancient, either - first publication was in the 1880s, and both Joyce and O'Neill collected it sometime around then as well, publishing their settings later. Of course it could also be a souped up version of some reel for the old pipes that simply wasn't picked up before then, too. As usual, impossible to say.
# Posted on April 24th 2011 by KLR
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
Finding a setting of a tune that has a particular note doesn't tell you anything, but finding a setting that omits it tells you that it isn't an essential part of the tune. It's easy to add unimportant notes, but it's hard to take important notes out.
# Posted on April 24th 2011 by GaryAMartin
Re: Technical reason for "no low-G's" ?
I have noticed many tunes with anomalies such as this one. Not uncommon to find dance tunes with a pure pentatonic first part (tune), for example, with one or both missing notes included in the second part (turn).
Couple of examples that spring to mind immediately: Cronin's hornpipe, Shores of Lough Rea.
I suspect that in some cases at least the tune was an older air, or a song tune, and when it was turned into a dance tune the musician wittingly or unwittingly changed the basic nature of the piece by calling on the missing notes.
For a period (long time ago now) I was obsessed with the idea of "correcting" these tunes (i.e. finding a way of playing the second part without the notes that don't appear in the first), with interesting results, sometimes very satisfying, other times less satisfying.
# Posted on April 26th 2011 by Jeeves Tones