I’ve just been watching a TV programme about ‘The Irish Dancing World Championships’ which are being held in Dublin this weekend. From the bits I’ve seen I’ve come to the conclusion that the music for the dancers is all pre-recorded.. Am I right or are there live ‘paid’ musicians featured on gigs like these? One adjudicator reckoned these Dancing Championships are worth 22 million euro to the economy . That being the case it would be a nice little earner for the many capable Trad Musicians who would be available to join the world of curly wigs and embroidered costumes. Anyone on here ever played for a similar gig, or does anyone know how to get into something like this?
Presumably when you're treating dancing as a sport you want to eliminate variables so the dancers compete on a fair basis. It wouldn't do to have live musicians, who might vary their performance from one dancer to the next, or (god forbid) make mistakes or speed up.
As someone who has played, just a little, for Irish Dancing Competions (tm), you want to run, not walk, but run the other way if you are ever asked to play for one. Every parent is your worst nightmare, you are deliberately ruining their precious childs chance of winning. I know of another musician who has had people hold up metronomes and tell him his tempo is wrong.
22 million euros may seem like a lot until you actually play for competitive dancing.
There are people who do this, and apparently enjoy it... they have my respect and sympathy.
I've often thought that the musicians should be in a darkened bullet proof room, you know, like a reverse see through mirror, so that the punters can see us, but we play away, blissfully unaware of any threats.
Seosamh, love the pit bull joke, not heard that before!
I play from 6-12 feisianna per year, and you're correct - it's a very different animal than session ITM. I know a couple of those guys listed at that url, they're some of the best in that business.
A diifferent world altogether, it seems. How can two activities, once so entwined, drift so far apart? If Irish dancing has morphed from house and cross road dancing etc. into that sort of high pressure, image driven activity, does that mean that trad musicians have also changed and morphed in some other direction? Perhaps Riverdance has a lot to answer for..
Thanks for all the info, especially about the musicians. Not one on them over forty and with qualifications to beat the band. I'm afraid that the days of the 'auld white haired fiddler dragging a chair onto the stage are long gone'
Ah well ......back to my local dancing class and the Rakes of Mallow.
Now Mary......one two three, and one two three, and one two three, and back two, three, and up, two, three...............
When I lived in Colorado I used to go to the Highland Games in Estes Park, looking for a tune as someone from the Denver/Boulder session scene usually organized a wee session somewhere. There were Highland Games -- the caber tossing and what-not, a Highland piping competition, and also an Irish dancing competition on the other side of the grounds. If you were hanging around the Highland piping end of things, it was all quite jolly and everyone was having a laugh and there were lots of men in kilts, which is never a bad thing. When you went over to the Irish dancing end of the grounds, the atmosphere was far heavier, with stressed out teenagers and fuming parents and always at least one wee girl in tears in the back of the stage.
In my experience, the music is live, but played to a very strict metronomic standard (I played for a feis one year, and they actually put a metronome at my feet).
A lot of children learn to pre recorded music - the right tune at the right speed. Change the tune and some of them will not be able to do their dance ( the tune tells them where to put their feet.)
Some competition use pre recorded music, others live music.
It varies from competition to competition.
Irish Dance Mothers - ha.
I saw the Dance Teacher set the time for 5 of them to do a treble jig but of course it wasn't perfect for a few and the mothers were mad enough to chew nails.
I talked to the girls playing the music afterwards because they were upset and told them not to worry since the Teacher set the tempo and it was just a St. Patrick's performance at a dance and not a competition.
Some people have no idea about separating performing and competing.
A diifferent world altogether, it seems. How can two activities, once so entwined, drift so far apart?
It's simple economics. How does a dance school keep its enrollments high and revenues coming in? How does it contain costs? You will find the answers in accessible canned music and by paying as few live musicians as possible. It's a business first, passing on tradition has little to do with it. It's an attitude echoed by some music schools - you and your money are welcomed until you become good enough to be competition for the "professionals" running it.
Irish Dancing
Irish Dancing
I’ve just been watching a TV programme about ‘The Irish Dancing World Championships’ which are being held in Dublin this weekend. From the bits I’ve seen I’ve come to the conclusion that the music for the dancers is all pre-recorded.. Am I right or are there live ‘paid’ musicians featured on gigs like these? One adjudicator reckoned these Dancing Championships are worth 22 million euro to the economy . That being the case it would be a nice little earner for the many capable Trad Musicians who would be available to join the world of curly wigs and embroidered costumes. Anyone on here ever played for a similar gig, or does anyone know how to get into something like this?
# Posted on April 21st 2011 by Free Reed
Re: Irish Dancing
Presumably when you're treating dancing as a sport you want to eliminate variables so the dancers compete on a fair basis. It wouldn't do to have live musicians, who might vary their performance from one dancer to the next, or (god forbid) make mistakes or speed up.
# Posted on April 21st 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Irish Dancing
Yep! Trad musicians and an interest in wigs (and wig glue). Already exists!
# Posted on April 21st 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: Irish Dancing
As someone who has played, just a little, for Irish Dancing Competions (tm), you want to run, not walk, but run the other way if you are ever asked to play for one. Every parent is your worst nightmare, you are deliberately ruining their precious childs chance of winning. I know of another musician who has had people hold up metronomes and tell him his tempo is wrong.
22 million euros may seem like a lot until you actually play for competitive dancing.
There are people who do this, and apparently enjoy it... they have my respect and sympathy.
# Posted on April 21st 2011 by thorsdog
Re: Irish Dancing
I'll vouch for Thorsdog. Dance mothers are the worst. The only difference between a dance mother and a rabid pit bull is the jewelry.
# Posted on April 21st 2011 by Seosamh Ui Sinan
Re: Irish Dancing
Thorsdog and Seosamh have it; I've done my time.
I've often thought that the musicians should be in a darkened bullet proof room, you know, like a reverse see through mirror, so that the punters can see us, but we play away, blissfully unaware of any threats.
Seosamh, love the pit bull joke, not heard that before!
All the best
Brian x
# Posted on April 22nd 2011 by briantheflute
Re: Irish Dancing
to my understanding the music is performed live -
often it is a synth and an accordion -
info on the musicians -
http://www.worldirishdancing.com/2011/musicians.php
a different animal than session ITM
# Posted on April 22nd 2011 by Reeds Munson
Re: Irish Dancing
I play from 6-12 feisianna per year, and you're correct - it's a very different animal than session ITM. I know a couple of those guys listed at that url, they're some of the best in that business.
# Posted on April 22nd 2011 by pbassnote
Re: Irish Dancing
I've been to several highland dancing competitions, and they always use a live piper.
# Posted on April 22nd 2011 by rbs
Re: Irish Dancing
A diifferent world altogether, it seems. How can two activities, once so entwined, drift so far apart? If Irish dancing has morphed from house and cross road dancing etc. into that sort of high pressure, image driven activity, does that mean that trad musicians have also changed and morphed in some other direction? Perhaps Riverdance has a lot to answer for..
# Posted on April 22nd 2011 by the wounded hussar
Re: Irish Dancing
Thanks for all the info, especially about the musicians. Not one on them over forty and with qualifications to beat the band. I'm afraid that the days of the 'auld white haired fiddler dragging a chair onto the stage are long gone'
Ah well ......back to my local dancing class and the Rakes of Mallow.
Now Mary......one two three, and one two three, and one two three, and back two, three, and up, two, three...............
# Posted on April 22nd 2011 by Free Reed
Re: Irish Dancing
When I lived in Colorado I used to go to the Highland Games in Estes Park, looking for a tune as someone from the Denver/Boulder session scene usually organized a wee session somewhere. There were Highland Games -- the caber tossing and what-not, a Highland piping competition, and also an Irish dancing competition on the other side of the grounds. If you were hanging around the Highland piping end of things, it was all quite jolly and everyone was having a laugh and there were lots of men in kilts, which is never a bad thing. When you went over to the Irish dancing end of the grounds, the atmosphere was far heavier, with stressed out teenagers and fuming parents and always at least one wee girl in tears in the back of the stage.
# Posted on April 22nd 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Irish Dancing
In my experience, the music is live, but played to a very strict metronomic standard (I played for a feis one year, and they actually put a metronome at my feet).
# Posted on April 22nd 2011 by Georgi
Re: Irish Dancing
A lot of children learn to pre recorded music - the right tune at the right speed. Change the tune and some of them will not be able to do their dance ( the tune tells them where to put their feet.)
Some competition use pre recorded music, others live music.
It varies from competition to competition.
Give me set dancers any time!
# Posted on April 22nd 2011 by southsider
Re: Irish Dancing
Irish Dance Mothers - ha.
I saw the Dance Teacher set the time for 5 of them to do a treble jig but of course it wasn't perfect for a few and the mothers were mad enough to chew nails.
I talked to the girls playing the music afterwards because they were upset and told them not to worry since the Teacher set the tempo and it was just a St. Patrick's performance at a dance and not a competition.
Some people have no idea about separating performing and competing.
# Posted on April 24th 2011 by MorganYYZ
Re: Irish Dancing
A diifferent world altogether, it seems. How can two activities, once so entwined, drift so far apart?
It's simple economics. How does a dance school keep its enrollments high and revenues coming in? How does it contain costs? You will find the answers in accessible canned music and by paying as few live musicians as possible. It's a business first, passing on tradition has little to do with it. It's an attitude echoed by some music schools - you and your money are welcomed until you become good enough to be competition for the "professionals" running it.
# Posted on April 24th 2011 by Seosamh Ui Sinan